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3 Ohio women held hostage now free

DeniseM

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Thank you for confirming your bias - DON'T post in this thread any more.
 

Ridewithme38

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[This is your final warning - your posts are offensive - next time you will get a vacation from TUG. - DeniseM]
 
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laurac260

I do believe Ride has made a valid point, in regard to the situation of unsavory divorce/custody tactics that is.

However....
He sooo picked the wrong thread to make it in.

:eek:
 

Quadmaniac

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See this is kinda what i thought when i first saw the story, this guy convinced the girls they wanted to stay, sort of Stockholm syndrome....It just seems to me, it would be VERY hard if not impossible to hold 3 people hostage for 10 years, unless they were somehow willing to stay.

Something happened and they snapped after 10 years and the neighbor heard them. Don't get me wrong, i don't think the guy was innocent, he took advantage of naive women. But, is it REALLY kidnapping if the girls WANTED to stay?

Wow! I don't know how your mind works, but I would think it would be extremely easy by looking at simple facts

1. He is physically larger and stronger than they are - it is not unheard of for "David to kill Goliath" but it would be extremely easy to see him dominating them

2. Don't do what he wants, you get the crap beaten out of you

3. Scream, you get the crap beaten out of you

4. Try to escape, you get the crap beaten out of you

5. Don't follow the rules, he with holds food, locks you in a box, don't allow you to go to the bathroom, rapes you, makes you do degrading things

6. After trying to disobey, at what point do you learn it is easier to do what he asks to avoid punishment after repeated tries ?

7. Nothing to do with these woman being naive - it is called FEAR

Maybe if your ex-wife is resisting giving you more "visitation" with your daughter this strongly to make "false" accusations (true or not) you might want to stand back and ask "Why is she so against it ?". There must be a reason she has chosen to take this approach as she does not want you around your child more. Have you looked at your own actions that could have contributed to this ?

People don't react negatively to another unless there is something that has initiated it. If your posts are any insight into your mind and these are your "ideas or thoughts", as an outsider, I would be concerned about your exposure to children and females with your negative image of them. If you respond to your ex in this fashion as this thread, I would think that your life would be an uphill battle.

It is easy to always blame others, but it is more difficult to see how our own actions may have caused these problems. We are always the last to accept blame for ourselves. When we change, people's reaction to us changes with it. Do you enjoy constant conflict ? Does that get you to where you want to go or be ? Would there not be an easier road to a destination further than where you have gone ? Maybe something to consider.
 

Ridewithme38

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It is easy to always blame others, but it is more difficult to see how our own actions may have caused these problems. We are always the last to accept blame for ourselves. When we change, people's reaction to us changes with it. Do you enjoy constant conflict ? Does that get you to where you want to go or be ? Would there not be an easier road to a destination further than where you have gone ? Maybe something to consider.

I'm not the same in real life as i am online,I'm painfully shy and withdrawn in real life its seems hard for me to even get a few words out in most situations because i'm worried about cutting someone off or offending them. in real life I'm also extremely polite and well mannered...I actually have a fear of conflict(and heights), so find myself either shutting down when conversations like this happen or turning into the most agreeable person you've ever met, i often find my self trying to change subjects when an argument is happening around me.

I know it's hard to tell this online, but, you'll never find me at a meet, or ever really even talk to me on the phone.....I've just never been able to express myself in real life the way i can online.....I wish i could, I'm an interesting person online, i've got stories to tell, when i'm typing them, an opinion on every topic when a computer screen is in front of me....but, put me in a crowd or even with a handful of people and you'll barely hear a peep out of me
 

Quadmaniac

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I'm not the same in real life as i am online,I'm painfully shy and withdrawn in real life its seems hard for me to even get a few words out in most situations because i'm worried about cutting someone off or offending them. in real life I'm also extremely polite and well mannered...I actually have a fear of conflict(and heights), so find myself either shutting down when conversations like this happen or turning into the most agreeable person you've ever met, i often find my self trying to change subjects when an argument is happening around me.

I know it's hard to tell this online, but, you'll never find me at a meet, or ever really even talk to me on the phone.....I've just never been able to express myself in real life the way i can online.....I wish i could, I'm an interesting person online, i've got stories to tell, when i'm typing them, an opinion on every topic when a computer screen is in front of me....but, put me in a crowd or even with a handful of people and you'll barely hear a peep out of me

I have a client that I consult with that was very polite in person, but his emails were just completely inappropriate to others and his staff. When people feel oppressed, there is always a valve somewhere that allows the built up pressure to be released. For him, it was his emails, where he came off like a jackass. From analyzing his situation, I suggested he not to go buy an expensive $100,000 piece of equipment which he did not need and turned around told his sales rep, that I specifically told him not to buy from him. His business was not busy and he felt his staff were slacking so he was eliminating lunch breaks. When I told him he was WAY WAY overpaying his staff based on the rest of the industry, he tried to cut the wages of his long term staff unilaterally like he was the ruler of the land. Many of his emails were very condesending and I explicitly told him that he does not send out emails without letting me review them first.

You may be very polite in person. Maybe you need to re-consider what you write by reading it again before pressing the send button to see how someone might interpret your message. If you are unsure, maybe send it to someone you trust to get their take on it before replying. Many times we are more "brave" online as we can hide behind the computer, but still we are all part of the same family and we should consider how our message comes across. Sometimes a little honey attracts more flies....food for thought.

As the years have gone by, I have drastically tried to moderate my responses to people and it has made a huge difference in how people have responded to me. I used to be in conflict with people at the drop of the hat as I was always "right". I have learned, sometime the hard way, there is maybe a better way to go about it and many times, the response that I get is mind blowing compared to what used to happen.

You know what they say in life, we are bound to repeat our mistakes over and over, with worse and worse consequences, until we learn what we were supposed to. It is a journey we must walk alone in, but if we fail to notice what is right in front of us, we will continue to walk in the endless loop till find the way out. We can expect for a different plant to grow if we keep planting the same seed.

There is nothing wrong with having an opinion, but maybe sometimes we have to question ourselves whether it makes logical sense and that our reasoning is sound before developing a conclusion based on it. Are we able to play devil's advocate on on our opinion ? Like I was saying, in these cases, maybe throw the concept or idea off a friend first and say, what do you think ? Obviously you have offended more than a few people with this thread, but after having the chance to reflect upon it, can you see where your opinion might have elicited this response or how you could have maybe moderated your posts ? No one is asking you not to be who you are, but sometimes our mouth or our fingers in this case works faster than our brain. Might be good to have someone to bounce things off of....
 
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laurac260

These girls are free now, and they can now begin to repair themselves. The perp will go rot in jail, or perhaps get the death penalty. We'll all move on with our lives. Many of the questions we have about this case will be answered, others never will be.

But the biggest unanswered question is, "How many more Amanda Berry's are out there?"
 

heathpack

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Quad is my new TUG hero!

H

Wow! I don't know how your mind works, but I would think it would be extremely easy by looking at simple facts

1. He is physically larger and stronger than they are - it is not unheard of for "David to kill Goliath" but it would be extremely easy to see him dominating them

2. Don't do what he wants, you get the crap beaten out of you

3. Scream, you get the crap beaten out of you

4. Try to escape, you get the crap beaten out of you

5. Don't follow the rules, he with holds food, locks you in a box, don't allow you to go to the bathroom, rapes you, makes you do degrading things

6. After trying to disobey, at what point do you learn it is easier to do what he asks to avoid punishment after repeated tries ?

7. Nothing to do with these woman being naive - it is called FEAR

Maybe if your ex-wife is resisting giving you more "visitation" with your daughter this strongly to make "false" accusations (true or not) you might want to stand back and ask "Why is she so against it ?". There must be a reason she has chosen to take this approach as she does not want you around your child more. Have you looked at your own actions that could have contributed to this ?

People don't react negatively to another unless there is something that has initiated it. If your posts are any insight into your mind and these are your "ideas or thoughts", as an outsider, I would be concerned about your exposure to children and females with your negative image of them. If you respond to your ex in this fashion as this thread, I would think that your life would be an uphill battle.

It is easy to always blame others, but it is more difficult to see how our own actions may have caused these problems. We are always the last to accept blame for ourselves. When we change, people's reaction to us changes with it. Do you enjoy constant conflict ? Does that get you to where you want to go or be ? Would there not be an easier road to a destination further than where you have gone ? Maybe something to consider.
 
L

laurac260

I have a client that I consult with that was very polite in person, but his emails were just completely inappropriate to others and his staff. When people feel oppressed, there is always a valve somewhere that allows the built up pressure to be released. For him, it was his emails, where he came off like a jackass. From analyzing his situation, I suggested he not to go buy an expensive $100,000 piece of equipment which he did not need and turned around told his sales rep, that I specifically told him not to buy from him. His business was not busy and he felt his staff were slacking so he was eliminating lunch breaks. When I told him he was WAY WAY overpaying his staff based on the rest of the industry, he tried to cut the wages of his long term staff unilaterally like he was the ruler of the land. Many of his emails were very condesending and I explicitly told him that he does not send out emails without letting me review them first.

You may be very polite in person. Maybe you need to re-consider what you write by reading it again before pressing the send button to see how someone might interpret your message. If you are unsure, maybe send it to someone you trust to get their take on it before replying. Many times we are more "brave" online as we can hide behind the computer, but still we are all part of the same family and we should consider how our message comes across. Sometimes a little honey attracts more flies....food for thought.

As the years have gone by, I have drastically tried to moderate my responses to people and it has made a huge difference in how people have responded to me. I used to be in conflict with people at the drop of the hat as I was always "right". I have learned, sometime the hard way, there is maybe a better way to go about it and many times, the response that I get is mind blowing compared to what used to happen.

You know what they say in life, we are bound to repeat our mistakes over and over, with worse and worse consequences, until we learn what we were supposed to. It is a journey we must walk alone in, but if we fail to notice what is right in front of us, we will continue to walk in the endless loop till find the way out. We can expect for a different plant to grow if we keep planting the same seed.

There is nothing wrong with having an opinion, but maybe sometimes we have to question ourselves whether it makes logical sense and that our reasoning is sound before developing a conclusion based on it. Are we able to play devil's advocate on on our opinion ? Like I was saying, in these cases, maybe throw the concept or idea off a friend first and say, what do you think ? Obviously you have offended more than a few people with this thread, but after having the chance to reflect upon it, can you see where your opinion might have elicited this response or how you could have maybe moderated your posts ? No one is asking you not to be who you are, but sometimes our mouth or our fingers in this case works faster than our brain. Might be good to have someone to bounce things off of....

There is alot to be said for this. I find myself guilty of these things too sometimes. It IS easy to hide behind the computer. It's also easy to get carried away with the temperament of the group, been there, done that.

I run a facebook group that is about to hit 200 folks. I am both the creator, and the admin, basically I set the tone for the group, I have the CONTROL (If I choose to look at it that way, that is). I made a conscious decision in the very beginning to NOT let my first reaction to things I might not agree with ALWAYS be my first response. I also made a decision that my own opinion is NOT king, if I don't have personal experience in a subject than there is no need for me to interject, etc. It's a forum that does not lend itself to contentious social debates, so keeping those in check is pretty easy, etc. And also, most importantly, I see many of these folks IRL. So, if I decide to be a pretentious know it all, I'll have to wear that badge out in public as well. That makes a huge difference I think. When you are anonymous you can be a horse's arse, and if you have second thoughts about what you wrote there's no serious reprecussions when you never see people in human flesh. Such is the problem with internet forums sometimes.

I probably DELETE as many things as I post, on any given forum, including my own facebook page (my personal one). But I am also human, and can be given to bouts of "Someone is wrong on the internet, and I MUST CORRECT THEM!" As a wise fellow here on TUG often says, "So it goes."
 

ricoba

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I'm not the same in real life as i am online,I'm painfully shy and withdrawn in real life its seems hard for me to even get a few words out in most situations because i'm worried about cutting someone off or offending them. in real life I'm also extremely polite and well mannered...I actually have a fear of conflict(and heights), so find myself either shutting down when conversations like this happen or turning into the most agreeable person you've ever met, i often find my self trying to change subjects when an argument is happening around me.

I know it's hard to tell this online, but, you'll never find me at a meet, or ever really even talk to me on the phone.....I've just never been able to express myself in real life the way i can online.....I wish i could, I'm an interesting person online, i've got stories to tell, when i'm typing them, an opinion on every topic when a computer screen is in front of me....but, put me in a crowd or even with a handful of people and you'll barely hear a peep out of me

Look, we have our own Walter Mitty!:rolleyes::( :doh:
 

Phydeaux

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Yikes, when are Dr. Phil & Opra going to check in to comment?
 

pjrose

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. . .
I probably DELETE as many things as I post, on any given forum, including my own facebook page (my personal one). . . .

I, too, often delete posts. On this thread I created a post in reply to Denise's comment about her basement and the several follow-up posts, then deleted it as I decided it was too frivolous given the seriousness of the thread. (I'm not saying Denise's and the follow-ups were frivolous - but that continuing in that vein would be.)

As to the comments above about innocent until prove guilty, I agree. That principle is an important part of our system, (if sometimes not our culture, certainly not our immediate-news media culture). No matter how horrible a given alleged perpetrator, we must remember that "alleged". Neither we nor the media are judge, jury, or executioner. Like many/most, I believe Castro is guilty, is a monster, should have the harshest penalty, etc. But honestly, I have not and probably will not hear or see the actual evidence, and things might not be quite as they appear. I suspect that things ARE as they appear, but they might not be.

So, I'd rather focus on the women than the monster(s) who did this - they are free, and we hope will be able to rebuild their lives after these difficult, horrible, years.
 

spencersmama

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Has anyone read the book Room? This case, the three abducted girls, reminded me of that book. When I read Room, I thought that this kind of situation was pretty rare, but it seems that abduction and human trafficing is getting more and more prevalent.

A couple of months ago, after hearing about another abuse or abduction case, I posted a question on facebook asking if we do enough in our society to protect the powerless. I have 200-ish friends and had three of them private message me about severe abuse or abduction that happened to either themselves or a close member of their family while they were a child or teen. I won't post any specific details, but the high number of specific responses really did startle me. Child abduction and child prostitution is much more common in in this country than I ever expected. It also seemed to me that in each of the three situations, the perpetrator was someone that presented themselves as a trusted friend or caregiver.

It's all so sad and tragic, and a part of me wishes I didn't know this problem existed. It seems like unbearable trauma for the victims. But part of me also wonders how I can learn from this to help prevent it from happening to young people in the future. I'm not sure I even know how to do that. I've heard many people say, "How could the neighbors not have known?" Then I think of how many neighbors on my own street I've shared chit chat with at block parties but haven't been in their houses.

I guess this post is all just sharing a philosophical stream of consciousness that has been going through my head the last few days, yet again. I don't have answers besides listen to your intuition and pray that this never happens to anyone ever again.

Just sharing my thoughts. (And getting the thread back on topic.)
 

presley

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A couple of months ago, after hearing about another abuse or abduction case, I posted a question on facebook asking if we do enough in our society to protect the powerless. I have 200-ish friends and had three of them private message me about severe abuse or abduction that happened to either themselves or a close member of their family while they were a child or teen. I won't post any specific details, but the high number of specific responses really did startle me.

I'm glad you brought that up. It really isn't that uncommon. I had many experiences, yes many, when I was a teen where a strange man would drive up next to me and offer to give me ride when I was walking or roller skating. Even after I would say, "No thanks. I'd rather walk," they would continue to drive slowly along next to me trying to talk me in to getting in the car. It was very annoying and happened on the way to/from school, on the way to the beach and on the way a friend's house. I remember one in particular, where the guy kept coming back for about a 2 mile walk. In that case, I eventually went to a pay phone to call my mom for a ride. She wasn't home, but I didn't see the guy again after he saw me using the phone.
 

pjrose

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I'm glad you brought that up. It really isn't that uncommon. I had many experiences, yes many, when I was a teen where a strange man would drive up next to me and offer to give me ride when I was walking or roller skating. Even after I would say, "No thanks. I'd rather walk," they would continue to drive slowly along next to me trying to talk me in to getting in the car. It was very annoying and happened on the way to/from school, on the way to the beach and on the way a friend's house. I remember one in particular, where the guy kept coming back for about a 2 mile walk. In that case, I eventually went to a pay phone to call my mom for a ride. She wasn't home, but I didn't see the guy again after he saw me using the phone.

How absolutely creepy and awful. I hope those guys didn't eventually find other less savvy teens :(

I had one not-nearly-so-creepy attempted issue about which I told my friend, my friend told her mother, her mother told my mother, and my mother contacted the authorities....turned out there had been several complaints in the area with the same description, they actually caught the guy, and he was sent away to prison for awhile - don't know how long.
 

Beaglemom3

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I was riding my bike in Aiea, Hawaii where I lived near the Keaiwa Heiau. I was 21. I had a long ponytail at the time. A carload of men drove up alongside me and one said something to me - asking directions or something like that - not unusual in Hawaii because of tourists (I was now riding on the shoulder of the road), I slowed to understand what was being said and the one in the passenger seat leaned out and grabbed my ponytail. This continued for a minute or so (seemed like a lifetime) while still riding.

I was able to hold onto my handle bars with my right hand and jab him in his eye with my left. Also, another car was coming up from behind them and he released his grip. By then, I had careened off of the shoulder and my bike flipped sideways. The car behind stopped with some nice ladies on their way to church.

We did not get the license plate, but did provide a description of the car and man/men to the police. Unfortunately, it was a stolen car and the creeps were never captured. It is so easy to be unknowingly vulnerable especially as a female or child. We never think that it could "me" who could be grabbed, but it could be.

I have never worn a ponytail again when riding my bike.:(




-
 
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littlestar

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I read that Michelle Knight (the first kidnapping victim) may need facial reconstruction and that she has hearing loss from the severity of the beatings. She was in the hospital the longest, too. I cannot imagine what those poor women went through.

There are some really evil people in this world.
 

Tia

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...
A couple of months ago, after hearing about another abuse or abduction case, I posted a question on facebook asking if we do enough in our society to protect the powerless. I have 200-ish friends and had three of them private message me about severe abuse or abduction that happened to either themselves or a close member of their family while they were a child or teen. I won't post any specific details, but the high number of specific responses really did startle me. Child abduction and child prostitution is much more common in in this country than I ever expected. It also seemed to me that in each of the three situations, the perpetrator was someone that presented themselves as a trusted friend or caregiver.
...


Back when Kobe Bryant was in the news for being accused of rape in CO it was a topic between other female friends of mine, two of who had surprising stories of their own to tell re college athlete experiences... :(
 

geekette

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I'm not the same in real life as i am online,I'm painfully shy and withdrawn in real life its seems hard for me to even get a few words out in most situations because i'm worried about cutting someone off or offending them. in real life I'm also extremely polite and well mannered...I actually have a fear of conflict(and heights), so find myself either shutting down when conversations like this happen or turning into the most agreeable person you've ever met, i often find my self trying to change subjects when an argument is happening around me.

I know it's hard to tell this online, but, you'll never find me at a meet, or ever really even talk to me on the phone.....I've just never been able to express myself in real life the way i can online.....I wish i could, I'm an interesting person online, i've got stories to tell, when i'm typing them, an opinion on every topic when a computer screen is in front of me....but, put me in a crowd or even with a handful of people and you'll barely hear a peep out of me

Be that as it may, it's no excuse for being a royal a$$ online. There are lots of Tuggers I would like to meet in person but you are not one of them. As far as I can tell, the person posting as Ridewithme38 is absolutely not someone I want in my life. Who you are online is who I figure you are offline, no matter what you say, and I can get my fill of rudeness and offensive pot-stirring crap elsewhere, thanks.
 

beejaybeeohio

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Castro pleading Not Guilty

So in addition to inflicting many, many years of horrendous abuse on Michelle, Gina & Amanda, the kidnapper is pleading Not Guilty which will mean it's likely these women will be forced to testify against him in court.

I can only hope it's cathartic for the three, but fear that their recovery will be prolonged and their agony relived because of Castro's plea....
 

BevL

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So in addition to inflicting many, many years of horrendous abuse on Michelle, Gina & Amanda, the kidnapper is pleading Not Guilty which will mean it's likely these women will be forced to testify against him in court.

I can only hope it's cathartic for the three, but fear that their recovery will be prolonged and their agony relived because of Castro's plea....

If it's just an initial plea, it would be shocking if he pled anything else. Lots of negotiations will no doubt be in play to try to strike a deal. That would probably be best for all concerned, frankly.
 

ricoba

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So in addition to inflicting many, many years of horrendous abuse on Michelle, Gina & Amanda, the kidnapper is pleading Not Guilty ....

Sadly, when was the last time you actually heard of a criminal of a terrible crime like this, actually admit they were guilty of the crime they are charged with?
 
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