2020 points increase in Cabo!

[PigsDad]

The thing about that is it decreases the ownership percentage of all the folks who are not in the bumped-up group. So it still seems that increasing overall points is not OK (again, based on the Disney model where this can't be done (aforementioned shady shenanigans aside). They can reapportion across days, rooms, seasons, but the total has to remain the same.

Yes, it does increase the total number of points that owners own, but it also increases the total number of points that represents capacity, so in the end it works out. Yes, the percentage that an owner who is not bumped up owns across the whole system does decrease slightly, but across a whole system like HGVC would make that difference minuscule.

Kurt

 

[brp]

Yes, it does increase the total number of points that owners own, but it also increases the total number of points that represents capacity, so in the end it works out. Yes, the percentage that an owner who is not bumped up owns across the whole system does decrease slightly, but across a whole system like HGVC would make that difference minuscule.

Kurt

Right, this is minuscule in the grand scheme of things, but it does materially impact the non-bumped owner.

Say I own 5000 points at a given resort. Let's also say that a night in a different season from the one that I own is 700 points., So, I could book 7 of such nights.
Now, they decide that a night in that season is going to be 850. The folks in that season get 150x7 = 1050 additional points (in this example). They can still book the same number of points.
However, I can only book 5 nights. This is because my ownership interest has been decreased.

I just can't see how this can be OK. Are we really only guaranteed a week in our season, and all else (use of the points as points) is subject to change?

Cheers.

 

[PigsDad]

I just can't see how this can be OK. Are we really only guaranteed a week in our season, and all else (use of the points as points) is subject to change?

Actually, bottom line -- yes. When we buy, we buy a week in a given season at a given resort and that is all we are guaranteed. We are not guaranteed X number of days in a different season, just as we are not guaranteed X number of days at a new resort that may have a different point structure.

HGVC is not a point-based system like DVC; owners of HGVC own weeks, that translate into points if you do not want to use your week. The bolded part is key. In contrast, in DVC you buy points and have no specific week or even a week in a season to back it up. In that system, if they increased the number of points for a certain portion of the year, that would definitely adversely affect owners because you were sold points at a resort, not in a particular season.

Kurt

 

[brp]

Thanks Kurt. That makes things very clear. Since we only use our HGVC as points, I was looking at it in the same way that I view my DVC. And that is clearly not correct here.

Cheers.

 

[escanoe]

The 2020 inventory is now loaded in the online portal. I missed my dreams of being able to book the week of New Year's even with the increased points. All is not lost, I previously booked our back up plan. The family will split the week between McAlpin Ocean Plaza and plantation beach club. Los Cabos will remain near the top of our list, and we will try to make it work sometime.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I have never seen availability during the Holidays/New Years at any of the FA resorts. There are plenty of nice Cabo resorts in RCI which you can trade for a 2 bdrm for 4800 points +$239. Perhaps start an OGS if not already available?

 

[escanoe]

I have an OGS out there. For this trip, I am a 2BR, AI optional kind of guy. I’m good if I get a hit or if I don’t. I’ll be picky about it.

 

[4Sunsets]

I would disagree with some parts of this thread, as everyone on the resale side keeps telling us we are buying points not weeks, as in it doesn't matter that the week you are buying at X is in Y for Z season, you are buying points so you can use them anywhere. Makes me rethink everything, if everyone here thinks we are actually just buying specific weeks.

 

[brp]

We're buying points. They're (apparently) selling weeks. The difference so rarely matters that they can be viewed as the same, even if they technically aren't. Hardly reason to "rethink" anything, IMO.

Cheers.

 

[Tamaradarann]

What I meant was:
Let's say you bought a 3400 point (1 BR 1 week "gold") and then later HGV says, well 3400 points no longer gets you 1 week in gold, it's now 4800 points starting in year BLAH for new bookings.

Granted, FA is an odd beast (I don't think you can guy HGVC Fiesta Americana, but I could be wrong).

Although I do recall they did change (or get rid of) a "season" for one of the resorts a long time ago (there was a thread on this and someone looked it up), but I don't know what the impact to owners at that resort was. Like HGVC got rid of the Bronze week or something, thus "increasing" the points (if you wanted that week of course). I have no idea what happened to owners who bought those "weeks".

Unless I am wrong Fiesta Americana is NOT a HGVC resort. It is a resort by another company who negotiated the number of points they will accept to let another company, in this case HGVC, exchange into. Just as RCI negotiated with HGVC to allow HGVC owners exchange into 2 BR units for 4800 HGVC points. Therefore, HGVC did NOT raise the number of points to exchange into Fiesta Americana. There must have been some type of renegotiation of the points required. If this was strictly an HGVC resort situation I can understand and agree with your thoughts that HGVC "devalued existing contracts".

On another but related note, I have said before if HGVC significantly changes the rules on exchanging into HGVC resorts that you don't own it will "devalue my contract" and I will be selling all my 6 timeshares because it will impact my ability to use the HGVC system that I bought into.

 

[Talent312]

As Tamaradarann points out Fiesta Americana is not HGVC, but a contracted affiliate, like Club Intrawest used to be.

HGVC reserves the right to adjustment point values, manke changes in the club, and even discontinue the club in it's rules: "Club program use options, fees and rules... are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation without notice... [A]djustments shall not disturb the one-to-one purchaser to accommodation ratio, or a Club Member’s ability to reserve their Home Week."
.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

A [A]djustments shall not disturb the one-to-one purchaser to accommodation ratio, "
.

What does this mean?

 

[dayooper]

What does this mean?

Thank you. I was wondering myself.

 

[escanoe]

Perhaps start an OGS if not already available?

This discussion prompted me to review my OGS. When selecting "exclude all inclusive" does that really mean exclude mandatory all inclusive? (If not, that choice is not very helpful in Mexico.) Seems to me RCI could be a little more straight forward to use.

 

[brp]

What does this mean?

Yeah, mine didn't make as much sense as I wanted it to

Cheers.

 

[Talent312]

What does this mean?

My guess, for what's it's worth (-0-)...
No more than one buyer per week... and only home-week is guaranteed.
.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

My guess, for what's it's worth (-0-)...
No more than one buyer per week... and only home-week is guaranteed.
.

Sounds right. Although I doubt HGVC would drastically change the points system, businesses do change management and get acquired. A good reminder that one should own properties that they would be fine to use if fees or points got so high that the home property becomes the only one economically feasible to use. We are fine with Vegas points because we can drive there if needed - would be more problematic if we owned Borgo and had to travel there every year.

 

[hurnik]

We're buying points. They're (apparently) selling weeks. The difference so rarely matters that they can be viewed as the same, even if they technically aren't. Hardly reason to "rethink" anything, IMO.

Cheers.

Well yes and no. If you think about it, you're really buying a week. Whether it's a floating week, or a fixed week depends on the contract. That's your "home week". (I'm fairly certain the deed lists this vs. X points). My 3 BR Gold Vegas says something like:

"Grantee understands and agrees that grantee shall be required to make a reservation and is entitled to utilize a 3 bedroom penthouse, with every year occupancy rights, in according with the previsions of the declaration."

Hilton allows us to also use Club Points reservations (unlike I think resale Marriott where you have to join for the points or something). I think other timeshares may have something similar (you get a week or points, but not both).

So while most of us say "points is points" there's always the caveat that you buy where you want to stay (ie: home week).

At least that's the way I look at it.

 

[hurnik]

Unless I am wrong Fiesta Americana is NOT a HGVC resort. It is a resort by another company who negotiated the number of points they will accept to let another company, in this case HGVC, exchange into. Just as RCI negotiated with HGVC to allow HGVC owners exchange into 2 BR units for 4800 HGVC points. Therefore, HGVC did NOT raise the number of points to exchange into Fiesta Americana. There must have been some type of renegotiation of the points required. If this was strictly an HGVC resort situation I can understand and agree with your thoughts that HGVC "devalued existing contracts".

On another but related note, I have said before if HGVC significantly changes the rules on exchanging into HGVC resorts that you don't own it will "devalue my contract" and I will be selling all my 6 timeshares because it will impact my ability to use the HGVC system that I bought into.

I think as others have pointed out, HGV is doing this (or FA) due to HGV buildling their own resort in Cabo (well taking a hilton hotel and converting).

I wonder if, when HGV is done, will that FA drop out of the HGV portfolio (ie, we'd only have Cozumel and Cancun left)? Guess we'll find out in a few years.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Unless I am wrong Fiesta Americana is NOT a HGVC resort. It is a resort by another company who negotiated the number of points they will accept to let another company, in this case HGVC, exchange into. Just as RCI negotiated with HGVC to allow HGVC owners exchange into 2 BR units for 4800 HGVC points. Therefore, HGVC did NOT raise the number of points to exchange into Fiesta Americana. There must have been some type of renegotiation of the points required. If this was strictly an HGVC resort situation I can understand and agree with your thoughts that HGVC "devalued existing contracts".

On another but related note, I have said before if HGVC significantly changes the rules on exchanging into HGVC resorts that you don't own it will "devalue my contract" and I will be selling all my 6 timeshares because it will impact my ability to use the HGVC system that I bought into.

 

[brp]

So while most of us say "points is points" there's always the caveat that you buy where you want to stay (ie: home week).

At least that's the way I look at it.

IN this context, it is only applicable to folks who would use Home Week, and we never would. So, for us, it really is about the points. The only "buy where you want to stay" location for us is NYC (W. 57th), but it's still points - we just get a larger points window by owning there.

I get what you're saying about what we're "really" buying, but we would never buy a "gotta use a week" property, so this really is just points to us. And this comes with some of the nuances mentioned above as it's not really sold that way (unlike DVC, for example).

Cheers.

 

[dayooper]

IN this context, it is only applicable to folks who would use Home Week, and we never would. So, for us, it really is about the points. The only "buy where you want to stay" location for us is NYC (W. 57th), but it's still points - we just get a larger points window by owning there.

I get what you're saying about what we're "really" buying, but we would never buy a "gotta use a week" property, so this really is just points to us. And this comes with some of the nuances mentioned above as it's not really sold that way (unlike DVC, for example).

Cheers.

While I agree with what you say (we are points are points people too), the idea of buy where you want to stay is based on the idea that HGVC could take away the club bookings and you are left with the underlying week. If you buy just for points, you run the risk of owning a place where you don't want to visit.

 

[brp]

While I agree with what you say (we are points are points people too), the idea of buy where you want to stay is based on the idea that HGVC could take away the club bookings and you are left with the underlying week. If you buy just for points, you run the risk of owning a place where you don't want to visit.

If they ever did that, we'd sell as HGVC would have very little value for us (except W. 57th). We bought for points and flexibility, very specifically. Fortunately, this is not something they're likely to take away, but we gambled on that when we bought, and I do consider ti a safe bet. We own Flamingo and, while we do stay there periodically, that's not why we have those points.

With DVC, we have two places we want to stay, and did buy there. For HGVC, that equation is just not the same for us (NYC aside).

But I do understand that the only guarantee is our week at the place we own.

Cheers.

 

[dayooper]

If they ever did that, we'd sell as HGVC would have very little value for us (except W. 57th). We bought for points and flexibility, very specifically. Fortunately, this is not something they're likely to take away, but we gambled on that when we bought, and I do consider ti a safe bet. We own Flamingo and, while we do stay there periodically, that's not why we have those points.

With DVC, we have two places we want to stay, and did buy there. For HGVC, that equation is just not the same for us (NYC aside).

But I do understand that the only guarantee is our week at the place we own.

Cheers.

Except for the part about owning in NYC (we don't and probably won't), this is my sentiments exactly.

 

[JIMinNC]

I just posted this in the New Locations thread, but thought it was appropriate here too. According to the latest Club Traveler newsletter, the new Los Cabos location will be by Hilton Club. It will be named La Pacifica Los Cabos by Hilton Club.

https://club.hiltongrandvacations.c..._campaign=us-clu-hgv-201905&utm_content=arti1