[2017] Movie Pass

[Steve Fatula]

I can accept that they may not pay full freight, but I can say AMC refused to give them a 20% rebate on tickets and started there own program. So my guess is some theaters are kicking back 20-30%. But others are full freight.

The issue is even with kick backs on full fares they are still burn money faster than they bring it in. When your shares are less than 2 cents. You can’t exactly issue more shares to raise revenue. Who would keep buying them. After the disaster of last reverse split all that will do is give them more room to go down.

There was a survey done the other day and the sampling surveyed had over mid 40% fed up with constant rule changes, Card not working at theaters, and constant erosion of benefits. While I do agree this was just a poll it doesn’t bode well when almost 50% of your brand base plans on throwing in the towel.

When your stock was at 52Week High of $9,715 split adjusted and is now at $.019. It’s not pretty

My annual pass expires week before Thanksgiving. I plan on cancelling or switching to a monthly account. Paying them for another year just doesn’t seem like a smart move in their situation.

I wouldn't pay for another year either. But gladly for another month. There are undoubtedly full freight theaters, there is no way they have contacted every theater including the one offs. However, I suspect they continue to work the list. They will not be issuing more shares, they have venture capital who wants to throw in money (not sure for what, surely not shares!). Also, don't forget not everyone goes during prime hours, and some are seniors like me. The ticket today to see the Meg cost $6.50 full price. On Tuesdays here, the price is far less. So, no idea what the average price would be. I know some areas are far more of course, and there are also budget theaters with second runs that are far less. Not sure what the deal is with those e-ticketed theaters, are any of them AMC? Maybe those are the ones with deals? We know (well, they claim) that the vast majority of their customers see < 3 movies a month. I don't think they specified the true average of those. They did need to get rid of the customers seeing many more per month obviously. Didn't make the happy of course, but, they had to. I believe it is salvageable. They have no fully leveraged all of the cost cutting and revenue increases they have yet either. In a business like this, it's always a case of is there enough capital to follow through with the plan, or, like most, were they undercapitalized.

 

[breezez]

I just checked my account I have seen 35 movies since I signed 10 months ago Before the pass I had not been to movies in over 2 years.

Where we live it typically costs $12.50 evening movies or weekends at most theaters. Some have mid week mid day specials.

Normally I can gather the end game behind something, but I am not sure I get there end game or value in data they collect.

I first thought they were going to hammer movie chains saying look how we have increased ticket sales and fight for kickbacks they eventually did AMC refused and fought them back, MP fired back blocking access to some AMC prime locations during prime time. AMC fired back with its own version of MP.... Theater chains are fighting it as they don’t want margins crushed and people getting mindset to where price of movie is almost free.

Trust me I wish this thing worked as I lost plenty on the stock.

But as far as a venture capital firm giving them money, I would think it more likely one just starts slowly buying up the open shares. 12M market cap with daily volume of more than 44 times float it would not be hard for one to take and manipulate stock price at times by putting in a huge sale order to shake a few more peeps free of their shares.

 

[Steve Fatula]

But as far as a venture capital firm giving them money, I would think it more likely one just starts slowly buying up the open shares. 12M market cap with daily volume of more than 44 times float it would not be hard for one to take and manipulate stock price at times by putting in a huge sale order to shake a few more peeps free of their shares.

I am guessing you did not read the article then, they have their reasons. MoviePass turned them down, at least at first. Of course, they could do as you suggest, we'll see. AMC is vastly overpriced, I'd not go to the movies before I'd ever pay their price. Or, I'd go and just pay, don't have an AMC around me anyway. I do realize they rejected Moviepass offer. Not sure about Cinemark, Regal, and all the other chains. Cinemark rules around DFW.

I can get to second runs here for $1.25 Tuesdays, $1.50 all day every other day. Tuesdays are $4.00 all day at non second run theaters. I suspect there are numerous people who see one or even < 1 per month, I know, why have a subscription. Beats me. I just don't know how to guess what the average is. Obviously MP has the data. To me, they must think they can survive, else they would have already folded. They have a lot of data. There is definitely value in their data, whether or not they have time to monetize it, not sure.

I definitely did not purchase their stock, though, can see why one might have.

While I don't believe they are in great shape, and, am convinced they have angered some (many) customers, I am not sure they wanted those customers anyway. I think it grew more than they thought, and this impacted them. Cutting back to their (now) target customers is likely a good thing. Whether or not it's good enough, I don't have any idea nor does anyone else. We can just guess!

I don't buy the concept that paying less for a ticket means the theater earns less. No way. That I now see 3 movies a month, where, I used to see maybe 6 a year, means more revenue for the theater, not less.

 

[breezez]

I am guessing you did not read the article then, they have their reasons. MoviePass turned them down, at least at first. Of course, they could do as you suggest, we'll see. AMC is vastly overpriced, I'd not go to the movies before I'd ever pay their price. Or, I'd go and just pay, don't have an AMC around me anyway. I do realize they rejected Moviepass offer. Not sure about Cinemark, Regal, and all the other chains. Cinemark rules around DFW.

I can get to second runs here for $1.25 Tuesdays, $1.50 all day every other day. Tuesdays are $4.00 all day at non second run theaters. I suspect there are numerous people who see one or even < 1 per month, I know, why have a subscription. Beats me. I just don't know how to guess what the average is. Obviously MP has the data. To me, they must think they can survive, else they would have already folded. They have a lot of data. There is definitely value in their data, whether or not they have time to monetize it, not sure.

I definitely did not purchase their stock, though, can see why one might have.

While I don't believe they are in great shape, and, am convinced they have angered some (many) customers, I am not sure they wanted those customers anyway. I think it grew more than they thought, and this impacted them. Cutting back to their (now) target customers is likely a good thing. Whether or not it's good enough, I don't have any idea nor does anyone else. We can just guess!

I don't buy the concept that paying less for a ticket means the theater earns less. No way. That I now see 3 movies a month, where, I used to see maybe 6 a year, means more revenue for the theater, not less.

I used to hate AMC too hence why we stopped going, but when I got MP we started going and the funny thing was we got the stubs card so every other time we went we got a $5 stubs reward just of our MP ticket purchases.

A few months latter we had two new theaters open Xscape and Goodrich both blow AMC out the park.

And food way better to.

Nachos at Goodrich $11.00

Nachos at AMC $7.99

 

[Patri]

And neither falls off the table!

 

[MULTIZ321]

MoviePass Subscribers Aren't Going to the Movies, and That's What MoviePass Wants
By Bryan Bishop/ Entertainment/ Film/ Culture/ The Verge/ theverge.com

"MoviePass subscribers have had a tough go of it over the last six months, with the service changing terms, dropping unlimited moviegoing, limiting access to first-run movies, and in at least once instance, going offline completely because it ran out of money. The myriad changes have removed most of the incentives that made MoviePass a compelling value in the first place, so customers have been using it less and less — and according to the head of MoviePass’ parent company, that’s exactly what the owners want.

“People are going to less than one movie a month,” Helios and Matheson CEO Ted Farnsworth said on Tuesday during a chat at The Wrap’s entertainment industry conference, TheGrill. “So technically, subscription alone right now is doing just fine, now it’s tacking on all the other things on top of it.”

It’s such a casual admission that it’s easy to overlook just how absurd Farnsworth’s statement is. MoviePass, the company that sold itself as a friend to cinema and moviegoers because it wanted to encourage audiences to see as many movies as possible, considers it “just fine” that subscribers are seeing less than one movie a month with it. The service has thrown up so many barriers to access that its subscribers aren’t using it regularly. Success!

From a business standpoint, this lack of use is obviously what MoviePass — and Helios and Matheson — need to survive. The MoviePass all-you-can-eat subscription was never sustainable financially, with the company shelling out full price for movie tickets to theaters even while it was taking in only $9.95 a month from subscribers. If people actually used MoviePass, there’s no way the subscription side of its business couldn’t run at a loss, but that’s where the “things on top of it” Farnsworth refers to come into play...."

Photo by Vjeran Pavic / The Verge


Richard

 

[dioxide45]

We finally signed up for AMC A-List. While it is $20 a month, the ability to see up to three movies in a day (and for the week) was what was most appealing. Our closest AMC is about 20-25 minutes away. We prefer the seats and experience at the AMC to be superior to any other theaters that we have nearby. We have only used it one time so far, seeing all three movies last Saturday. We will probably go twice this weekend, seeing two one day and one another. It isn't ideal and it would be great if there was an AMC closer to us. Though I prefer to knock out all the movies at one time than to kill so many days if we tried to see three (or more) on three different days.

 

[Steve Fatula]

We are still going to 3 movies a month, 2 of which we wouldn't likely otherwise see thanks to Moviepass. That we can use it at most any theater in any town we are in (such as one offs like in Lake Tahoe) is a big advantage for us over those theater specific plans. Since we are travelling so much now, it's a requirement if we want to go to the movies.

 

[bnoble]

I cancelled mine, and I don't miss it.

 

[MULTIZ321]

MoviePass Parent Company Under Investigation by New York Attorney General
From Daily Beast/ dailybeast.com

"New York Attorney General Barbara Underwood opened an investigation into MoviePass’ parent company, probing whether it “misled” investors about its financials. CNBC reports the attorney general’s office is in the “early stages” of its investigation into Helios and Matheson Analytics. The company said in a statement that it is “fully cooperating” with the investigation. “We believe our public disclosures have been complete, timely and truthful and we have not misled investors,” the company said. “We look forward to the opportunity to demonstrate that to the New York Attorney General.” The parent company reported a loss of $100 million in August, which reportedly puts it on track to “blow through its remaining assets in the span of months.” MoviePass had experienced outages months ago after it ran out of money, and it has since adjusted its offerings...."

Mike Segar/Reuters


Richard

 

[Steve Fatula]

Shareholders are definitely not happy, no doubt about it! But, as a customer, will continue to use as long as it lasts, it just makes financial sense for us. There is no other program that we can use really.

 

[Sandy VDH]

My annual pass expires in january and I will NOT be renewing.

 

[DRIless]

I went to First Man last night and am on the 3movies/month monthly plan. My companion is still on an annual unlimited subscription and they had no options at the same 20 theater multiplex. Do you think they're being "limited?"

 

[bnoble]

I cancelled a few months ago, and thought about re-starting with the winter coming up. There are no e-ticketed theaters anywhere near me now. I'd rather do Sinemia, even though they have the initiation fee.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Sinemia also has a $1.80 ticketing fee (ea ticket) on top of the fee to to e-ticket.

 

[tschwa2]

I cancelled Movie pass 2 months ago after having it for a year and a half. I started with a 6 month groupon. Before movie pass I went to the theaters maybe twice a year. I might hit the new star wars move and maybe something else.

Movie pass got way too restrictive. Even in the best of times I probably average 1.5 movies a month. It was like time sharing. I got a little discount and it made me go out. A month was $9.99 vs the single nighttime movie cost of $13.95 with tax. I was also a bit of a scofflaw and bought a second one for my now 17 year old son, who was 16 (not the 18 the rules dictated). It was somewhat rare mother-older teen time. With movie pass, and we had the 3 movie a month, there might be 1 movie a day and if you didn't buy it by 3pm (even for a 7pm show) they might have reached the limit they were selling for that movie at that theater. I could never see even one movie that was my first choice for the last 3 months. I saw Crazy Rich Asians- which we enjoyed but was a 3rd or 4th choice but the only thing available and nothing even remotely interesting available the rest of the month. The next month we saw the House with Clocks in the Walls -would give 2 star but again only choice and knew I was cancelling but wanted to go see something. We also went to Collette, which I probably wouldn't have minded but my son was hating so we sneaked into Venom, which he had already seen, paying full price because we could never get it with movie pass. Our theater has assigned seats so sneaking can be difficult but it was a Tuesday night and Venom only had 6 other people in the theater- still not available with moviepass. It was available but only one day a week not the first week but for the next 3 weeks. Collette only had 2 other people and they might have been there because it was the only moviepass movie available.

I switched to Sinema. It is quite a bit more expensive. I went with the 2 person pass so I can order 2 from my phone rather than one per phone and without bending the rules I can go to a movie with my either son, my DH, or a friend. It works out to $26.00 ($13 each) if i go to one movie with 2 tickets per month. No savings over no program. If I go to 2 movies for 2 then the cost is $16.80 ($8.40 each) and for 3 movies $13.40 ($6.70 each). I also get enough reward points for a free pop corn ever other visit and can order tickets weeks in advance including special event movies. We went to the early premier of Crimes of Grindwald last night.

 

[rickandcindy23]

AMC has the Tuesday $5 movies, and we try to go at least twice a month for that deal. We saw Nutcracker the first week it was released.

The theater we visit near Disney in Orlando is really nice because it's usually empty. It's at the West Oaks Mall in Ocoee, FL. That one has the great recliners, brand new, and we go there almost as much as our local theater in a year.

If you go to that theater before noon, the seats are cheap. I think it was $3.75 for our before-noon movie at that theater.

 

[Steve Fatula]

There are variants depending on how cheap your theater is, and, what cheap days they offer. Here, it's $5 Tuesdays which sounds good, but, we always do the popcorn and drink thing, which as most everywhere is a small fortune. On a movie plan, better for us to go on a Monday, and "pay" full price (since they are paying it, not us), and that here gets us 50% off popcorn and drinks, making them far more reasonable. That saves far more than Tuesdays lower ticket price.

Regarding Sinemia, I am not sure tschwa2 considered the new $1.80 ticketing fee in his Sinemia writeup of costs. It really makes Sinemia not so good. They, like MP, changed the terms in the middle of peoples subscriptions. It's $1.80 you pay for every ticket in addition to the convenience fee, in addition to your monthly fee.

 

[tschwa2]

Regarding Sinemia, I am not sure tschwa2 considered the new $1.80 ticketing fee in his Sinemia writeup of costs. It really makes Sinemia not so good. They, like MP, changed the terms in the middle of peoples subscriptions. It's $1.80 you pay for every ticket in addition to the convenience fee, in addition to your monthly fee.

I did. It is $20 per month plus $1.50 per ticket convenience fee plus $1.80 per ticket.
1 Movie/2 tix $26.60 for one movie- $13.30 each,
2 Movies (+$6.60) $33.20- $8.30 each
3 Movies (+$6.60) $39.80- $6.64 each

3 movies is still a lot per month so I am hoping to average around 2.1 movies a month.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Ah, ok. Of course, if you can, use Facebook as they currently pay the convenience fee for you..... That would change your math a good bit and make the cost lower.

So, the math for having no plan at all (for us) total cost including refreshments:

Per person, cheap Tuesdays, $5 ticket + $10 combo = $15, 2 of us, so $30, or $90 for 3 movies a month
Per person, cheap Monday combos, $8 + $5 combo = $13, 2 of us, $26 or $78 for 3 movies a month

With Sinemia assuming 3 movies per month and using your numbers:

Non Mondays
1 Movie $13.30 + $10 combo = $23.30 each, a loss compared to Tuesdays without a plan
2 Movies $8.30 + $10 combo = $18.30 each, a loss compared to Tuesdays without a plan
3 Movies $6.64 + $10 combo = $16.64 each, a loss compared to Tuesdays without a plan

We would lose money.

Mondays:
1 Movie $13.30 + $5 combo = $18.30 each, a loss compared to Tuesdays without a plan
2 Movies $8.30 + $5 combo = $13.30 each, a gain compared to Tuesdays without a plan, about even for Mondays without a plan
3 Movies $6.64 + $5 combo = $11.64 each, a gain no matter how I work it compared to cash, but not much

But, if you remove that $1.50 convenience fee (Facebook), it becomes more worth it. That $1.80 transaction fee is going to kill it for a lot of folks though I suspect.

We do 3 or more movies a month. This month, it's a definite 4 as will be December.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Most movies are not worth even the $5. For whatever reason, my popcorn habit has eased a bit. I have been on a low-carb diet, and if I can get past the delicious smell of the popcorn in the lobby, I am okay sitting in my seat without it. I take an Atkins bar that is very much like Baby Ruth and satisfies my hunger in the theater.

Now Rick would rather take a Subway 12" Steak N Cheese and eat that during the movie. He does that most of the time. He is a major carb eater, and he is skinny.

 

[dioxide45]

We have been on AMC A-List for two months and have seen three movies every week except one when we didn't go. There will also be two weeks in December when we will be on a cruise where we will miss the movies. We do like that with AMC, we can see all three movies on the same day. We can see any movie we want, including IMAX and Dolby Theater. We like that we can reserve well in advance. We usually make all three movie reservations for Friday night. Though this week we won't make it on Friday and will probably go on the night before THanksgiving then again on the day after.

 

[Steve Fatula]

AMC would be cheaper than Sinemia for sure. The downsides are it's AMC only. The upside is if they are near you and many places you go, that's not a problem and it's cheap at that point. Nearest AMC to me is 45 miles, not really a useful option given I am just a few miles from a theater. It's a beautiful top notch 2 year old theater, just not a chain theater.

Sinemia is barely cheaper than cash for me as well. However, while out of town, it could be useful since on vacation, yes I go to movies there at times, I could use whatever is close by. And in many places, tickets are way more than here so that's when it can make more sense.

Hoping that tschwa2 knows that Facebook charges NO convenience fee for online tickets.

Even though I have a 120" screen, I still find it nice to go to the movies. We enjoy the experience. Get's us out of the house when we are home.

 

[dioxide45]

AMC would be cheaper than Sinemia for sure. The downsides are it's AMC only. The upside is if they are near you and many places you go, that's not a problem and it's cheap at that point. Nearest AMC to me is 45 miles, not really a useful option given I am just a few miles from a theater. It's a beautiful top notch 2 year old theater, just not a chain theater.

Sinemia is barely cheaper than cash for me as well. However, while out of town, it could be useful since on vacation, yes I go to movies there at times, I could use whatever is close by. And in many places, tickets are way more than here so that's when it can make more sense.

Hoping that tschwa2 knows that Facebook charges NO convenience fee for online tickets.

Even though I have a 120" screen, I still find it nice to go to the movies. We enjoy the experience. Get's us out of the house when we are home.

Proximity to an AMC is one downer for us. The AMC we go to is a 25 minute drive for us. Thus why we hit all three movies in the same night. If they started to restrict that, we would quickly be out.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I saw this today:

https://www.thestar.com/entertainme...ch-class-action-lawsuit-over-hidden-fees.html

Friends of mine say they can't even get into Sinemia right now?

And then this about AMC:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/11/13/amc-is-running-into-the-same-problems-as-moviepass.aspx

Geez!