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[ 2016 ] Do you think the points conversions are a big scam?

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Deed for Points and have to pay, I don't think so.

My wife and I belonged to Gold Key Resorts, that were sold to Diamond Resorts. We asked to meet with someone about what, if any, changes would be made.

We were told that we needed to switch to the point system, in which they would take our deeded week, and give us a minimum number of points in which we would have to pay a enormous yearly maintenance fee for.

We bought at the Boardwalk in Va. Beach, Va, before it ever opened back in 2002. Basically at the meeting we were threatened, and every thing else under the sun, that all of the deeded weeks would be changed to the point system in a short length of time. Needless to say, we didn't do it.

Now I don't even know who owns our resort, because I read that Diamond Resorts was sold to a holding company of some type.

Maybe someone could give me information on this?

Personally I think anyone would be a fool to trade a deed for points. Resorts increase in price, along with maintenance fees. Points also increase in price. So it is very likely that the points you have will be worth little in the future, while in the meantime you will be paying higher maintenance fees to keep the points you have, or you will be forced into paying a higher price for both.

At least if you own a deeded week, they can only go so high on maintenance fees. And even with that, they have to prove why they needed to increase them for your resort. If you have points, and a disaster happens at a resort you never heard of has problems, you will be paying higher maintenance fees to cover that resort or maybe even keeping the company in business that is selling the points.

If I wanted points, I could have bought them at another resort rather than buying a deeded week at the Boardwalk. As long is I have a deed, I own my own week to do with it anything I desire.
 

Videoguy75

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Bought a points timeshare first in '94. It has been spectacular. Then bought a bunch of Marriott floating weeks and they have worked equally well. When Marriott introduced "electing points" I was very skeptical and very worried they would skim off the best weeks, making it impossible to book our traditional spring break trips to Maui. I said "No" to the election option. Then my BIL set me straight and I elected. Amazing how well it has worked for us. We loved the floating weeks as they were, but "electing" has added even greater value for us.

All depends on what you own and how you vacation.
 

cayman01

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All depends on what you own and how you vacation.

This is EXACTLY right. If you are the type to go to the same place every year at a certain time and enjoy that, then fixed weeks are for you. There is NO reason to trade for points.

OTOH if you like different experiences then maybe the points option with internal trades is what you want to do. It's much easier than hoping for a trade thru RCI or II with a deposited fixed week. And less expensive.

Which brings me to the deal. These sales weasels try to badger and harangue people into these exchanges for points. As the owner of the week you need to deal from a position of strength. They WANT your week. I say make them pay. When they come out with a ridiculous offer, come back with one of your own, " Oh, you want me to PAY you $10k to exchange my fixed week that you want? I don't think so. How about you exchange them for free and pay my mf's for three years since you want them so bad.":hysterical:

Worse thing that happens is you keep your week. The best thing that happens is you get the exchange, if that is what you want, at much better terms. No they aren't going to pay your mf's or anything like that, but they will know you aren't a mark, and will treat you better.

I just hate to see how people are treated by these lying, sniveling browbeaters. Time to turn the tables a bit. They WANT these fixed weeks. Make a deal that is in YOUR best interests, not theirs.
 

appell

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Marriott Points

I am confused on the Marriott points discussion. I own Grande Vista in Orlando and I joined the points system when first offered. For $600 I joined and was given extra points for joining and was able to stay several days at a Marriott FREE. I now can use points, use my unit or swap via interval. No downside as every year I have the option.
If you use the points wisely you can get a lot of mileage on the system.
 

qwerty

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Wanted to get other opinions on the practice of timeshare resorts/mgt companies that make you pay to convert your fixed or floating week to a "new" points system.

As an owner, you either paid via the developer or 3rd party resale, provided your timely maintenance fees, paid any assessments and in general been a good owner. Now to play in a new and I'm sure somewhat better value proposition called a points system you have to pay them more monies!

So help me understand why in most timeshare discussions I don't see owners getting to a stage of foaming at the mouth of such a scam. And by requiring such high conversion fees it only contributes to a very convoluted and mixed system that is confusing at best and unfair to one group or the other (points or fixed)...just offer for everybody that owns to get their points instead and everyone benefits.

Putting aside the option of buying a points timeshare, the question would be whether or not to convert your week timeshare to points. The first question would be how many points your week is worth. The next question would be how many points would you need to stay at your resort in a different week. I own a week at a popular resort in a popular floating season. When given the option of converting, I declined to do so. Disregarding the cost to convert, the maintenance fee to point value was about three cents. As there are several that will rent their extra points @ a penny, the decision to NOT convert was obvious to me. I also owned at another week resort that I paid $1495.00 to convert. The maintenance fee to point value for this conversion was about a penny which I consider to be reasonable. After converting, I was able to obtain the points that I needed from other owners that had too many. I readily pay a penny a point. By converting my one week into points, I am now able to stay at my other resort for about a third of the maintenance fee. Of course having to pay an exchange fee to RCI lessens the value but still better that buying another week at that resort. An interesting aside is that to buy an extra week at that other resort, I would have spent more than the point conversion fee.
Saying what worked for me doesn't mean that it will work for you. Other than the ever increasing greedy fee increases, I have been quite satisfied with using RCI points. Because of the structure of the point system, I am able to travel much more than I had originally with the two deeded weeks that I own.
I gather from your question that you own a deeded week. If so, I do not see how you can be forced to convert. If you decide not to convert, hopefully you will not be forced to do so. As pointed out by other answers, you might be better off just acquiring another already converted point timeshare for practically nothing. As mentioned above, compare the M/F to point ratio for any new acquisition.
 

SueDonJ

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When Marriott initiated points some years ago, they offered to convert our deeds at Newport Coast Village for free. We declined. A few years later, they offered a "deal" to do the same thing, but for $25,000 total for our weeks. Needless to say, we would not pay to do what we declined to do for free. In the years following that, we have used our deeded weeks with no problem, and even bought more deeded weeks. But our wrinkle is that we bought our weeks to use them there, not to enter the marketplace of swaps. If you want to play in a market, you need to buy into the rules of the exchange. So there's no scam here, but for us no value either.

I own at Marriott and I question your facts. That is simply not what they did. Almost everything you say about the Marriott system, and the introduction of their points option, is false.

When Marriott offered me points for my week in Maui, I asked the salesman which we believed was being incredibly honest whether in fact the points would allow me to come back for seven days at the same resort at the same time of year. He indicated that the answer was no and in fact, I would have a difficult time using the points conversion to get five days where I currently have seven by owning the week. We declined the point conversion.

I own Marriott Ocean Club in Maui and I use a January or February week every year. If I converted to points, I'd be SOL for the prime months.

I am confused on the Marriott points discussion. I own Grande Vista in Orlando and I joined the points system when first offered. For $600 I joined and was given extra points for joining and was able to stay several days at a Marriott FREE. I now can use points, use my unit or swap via interval. No downside as every year I have the option.
If you use the points wisely you can get a lot of mileage on the system.

I also am confused on the comments from some about Marriott's Points system. As an overlay on the Weeks system owners have the option to enroll their Weeks, if eligible, for a one-time enrollment fee plus an annual Club Dues fee. Then on an annual basis owners can use their Weeks the same as they always have, or, can elect to convert their enrolled Weeks to the allotted Points for use in the Destination Club.

It's true that for the majority of Marriott Weeks the allotted amount of Points will not be enough to book the same resort/unit size/view/season interval in the DC, which is why you wouldn't elect to convert your Weeks to Points in the years that you want your owned usage. In the years that you do elect to convert, though, there is much more flexibility in Points usage than in Weeks usage - and many DC Members get more exchange value from the DC for their enrolled Weeks than they get from II.

Enrollment of eligible Weeks is ongoing through Marriott. If you have any questions you can read the TUG FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program and/or join us over on the TUG Marriott forum. :)
 
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curbysplace

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One of the many great things I learned from TUG is that you research any of the various options with respect to timeshares that arise, like should I buy from the developer or should I by resale, should I buy on Ebay, what is a scam, and so forth.

When the Marriott Destinations point program was introduced I did not jump into it right away. I looked at it for several months doing my research. I put the pencil and calculator to work and determined that, because I bought my TS units resale on Ebay for 20-30% of the developer price, it made financial sense to buy into the points program because I would be able to re-coup my points buy-in costs in eight to ten years and in turn would have a much greater flexibility than just holding my re-sale deeded weeks.

Through what I learned from others on TUG I was able to use additional ways to re-coup my points buy-in costs and did so in two years through II savings, renting out points, etc. Now I often rent out points I cannot use in a given year to help pay my maintenance fees. My actual net occupancy costs for the week(s) I do use is substantially less than I would pay if I hadn't put out the money to buy into the points program.

Bottom line, do your research and use TUG as a primary research tool. Every point program is different. And how you use your deeded units and how you use any particular points program has its own opportunities, vagaries, positives and negatives. You can make a good decision if you take your time and do your homework.
 

stanleyu

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I bought a floating TS week about 25 years ago for next to nothing and have never stayed there. We wanted it for trade so we could stay in different places (mostly Orlando) each year, and that's exactly what we did. However, the only thing I really did not like was the hassle of dealing with red, white, and blue weeks. Normally we wanted red. Then we were offered an upgrade to points and we bought in (for less than $2000, but I don't remember the exact amount).

For us this was the perfect solution. Unlike a lot of people posting here we had no interest in staying in our deeded week. Points has offered us the flexibility of staying in a variety of places, and combining 2 poor years to get a good one. And any points not needed are carried forward. Best of all, I've been able to trade into Disney World a number of times. The key here is flexibility on our part in order to make it work. The less flexible you are, the more difficult it is. But that's the general rule for time sharing anyway.
 

smdavis

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I inherited a deeded week owned through DRI and exchange through RCI weeks. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to convert to Wyndham points. I haven't been able to learn how many points my week would be worth, site anyone know how I can find that out?

We always exchange since the week is a week I can't travel. Would it be better to have points so I could do 2 locations in one week if I want? Also does anyone know if you can use Wyndham points for airfare?
 

tschwa2

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The only way to convert a DRI week to wyndham points would be through the PIC program which would require a purchase generally around $20,000. The number of points would be based on the size and season of the week you own.
 

raygo123

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I inherited a deeded week owned through DRI and exchange through RCI weeks. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to convert to Wyndham points. I haven't been able to learn how many points my week would be worth, site anyone know how I can find that out?

We always exchange since the week is a week I can't travel. Would it be better to have points so I could do 2 locations in one week if I want? Also does anyone know if you can use Wyndham points for airfare?
You cannot turn your DRI into Wyndham points. The PiC program as mentioned requires a purchase and is only good for a couple years. A 1 bdrm is 105,000 point 2 bdrm 254,000 points. To get a permanent PIC, a resort cannot be points. A floating or fixed week that trade through RCI.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

smdavis

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Does that mean I can't do Wyndham instead of RCI? I know the home resort is through DRI but all I do with them is pay maintenance fees. I use RCI to do all my exchanging.
 

WinniWoman

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This is EXACTLY right. If you are the type to go to the same place every year at a certain time and enjoy that, then fixed weeks are for you. There is NO reason to trade for points.

OTOH if you like different experiences then maybe the points option with internal trades is what you want to do. It's much easier than hoping for a trade thru RCI or II with a deposited fixed week. And less expensive.

Which brings me to the deal. These sales weasels try to badger and harangue people into these exchanges for points. As the owner of the week you need to deal from a position of strength. They WANT your week. I say make them pay. When they come out with a ridiculous offer, come back with one of your own, " Oh, you want me to PAY you $10k to exchange my fixed week that you want? I don't think so. How about you exchange them for free and pay my mf's for three years since you want them so bad.":hysterical:

Worse thing that happens is you keep your week. The best thing that happens is you get the exchange, if that is what you want, at much better terms. No they aren't going to pay your mf's or anything like that, but they will know you aren't a mark, and will treat you better.

I just hate to see how people are treated by these lying, sniveling browbeaters. Time to turn the tables a bit. They WANT these fixed weeks. Make a deal that is in YOUR best interests, not theirs.

Not for anything, but you still can exchange fixed weeks and go other places. And you can use the independent exchange companies with low exchange fees and free memberships. Not perfect but can work. To think that you can only exchange with points is so not true. With a fixed week you can have it both ways. We exchanged over many years with a floating off season week and went to a lot of different places aroung the country and in Prime Time I might add using so called "white" weeks.
 
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WinniWoman

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"Which brings me to the deal. These sales weasels try to badger and harangue people into these exchanges for points. As the owner of the week you need to deal from a position of strength. They WANT your week. I say make them pay. When they come out with a ridiculous offer, come back with one of your own, " Oh, you want me to PAY you $10k to exchange my fixed week that you want? I don't think so. How about you exchange them for free and pay my mf's for three years since you want them so bad."

I love this! Exactly! I always say- when the resorts come up with new plans it is for THEIR benefit- not yours!

At Smuggs Wyndham is always trying to get people to convert. I keep saying they want my weeks they will have to pay ME!
 

skimeup

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I don't get the value of the points system

A few years ago, I suppose in response to a decline in owners, Inn at the Opera (San Francisco) sold some units to Shell Vacations Club. Of course they offered me something and, being curious about what was happening, I went to a presentation. They wanted me to convert my week to points for some outrageous amount - maybe $12,000? I would not get enough points to book a week at Inn at the Opera but the salesguy told me I would always be able to book my home resort. Since I always use my week there (I am an opera nut and it is across the street from the Opera House), I really had to laugh at them. Now, reading this discussion, I begin to see some value to RCI points. The reason being that I am retired and I see in another discussion forum that someone has spotted an amazing week that popped up on RCI at the last minute and I gather the point value for last minute resorts is not as high as it is a few months out?

OTOH, I own a LOT of points with Royal Holiday as they are basically being given away on ebay and they have units in many many cities - where there is lots of opera! :rofl:
 

Talent312

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... I am an opera nut and it is across the street from the Opera House...

But you've left this wide-open for cracks about death-by-opera!
Opera is when a guy gets stabbed in the back and, instead of bleeding, he sings. ― Robert Benchley

"There are two sorts of opera," said Nanny... "There's your heavy opera, where basically people sing foreign and it goes like 'Oh oh oh, I am dyin', oh I am dyin', oh oh oh, that's what I'm doin', and there's your light opera, where they sing foreign and it basically goes 'Beer! Beer! Beer! I like to drink lots of beer!', although sometimes they drink champagne instead. That's basically all of opera, reely.”
― Terry Pratchett, Maskerade

:ignore:
.
 
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VegasBella

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My personal feeling about it is that it IS a scam of sorts in how they try to strong-arm you into buying something that you don't need and may actually make your ownership less valuable.

However it doesn't reach the same level of outrage for me because it's one of those 'fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me' type of things. If they're trying to get you to pay to convert then you're already an owner. Presumably you know what you own and have owned for a while and should be in a better position to negotiate more fairly and freely.
 

Videoguy75

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I was so skeptical initially and I posted about it a few years ago. Here we are years later. We own 4 weeks at MOC and now several other add ons and bundles. Regular trips to MOC are still a family favorite and points competition has not made it any harder for us to get the units we want. Very happy with that. But when we elect our points - WOW - it works even better. Is Marriott perfect? Of course not. Could/Should Marriott treat us better? Of course! How do we feel about all our units and points? Love them. So glad we bought them. A fabulous contribution to amazing large and small family gathers. Would I recommend a purchase? Absolutely! I do it all the time...
 

DeniseM

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Videoguy75 - please note that you are responding to a question from 2016. When you use the search function, please be sure you look at the DATE of the thread that you pull up before you post, because they can go back as far as 2005.
 

Videoguy75

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Videoguy75 - please note that you are responding to a question from 2016. When you use the search function, please be sure you look at the DATE of the thread that you pull up before you post, because they can go back as far as 2005.

Excellent point Denise and one that I was aware of. I was not responding to anyone in particular. As it happened, I was scanning for a topic and came across this one and my demented mind said, "Hmmm....if someone else who is wondering comes across this thread, perhaps they would appreciate a perspective aided by time."

Not trying to resurrect or join an old thread - merely adding a comment that might be useful to someone like me who finds themself looking at an old thread. Sometimes time changes, seasons, colors, etc., what went before. Hope it doesn't confuse anyone. This isn't a rules violation is it?
 

DeniseM

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Hi Videoguy75 - absolutely not a rules violation. Some people aren't aware of how far back the threads can go, so I was just bringing it to your attention. :hi:
 
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