[ 2016 ] Do you think the points conversions are a big scam?

[mikeben]

Wanted to get other opinions on the practice of timeshare resorts/mgt companies that make you pay to convert your fixed or floating week to a "new" points system.

As an owner, you either paid via the developer or 3rd party resale, provided your timely maintenance fees, paid any assessments and in general been a good owner. Now to play in a new and I'm sure somewhat better value proposition called a points system you have to pay them more monies!

So help me understand why in most timeshare discussions I don't see owners getting to a stage of foaming at the mouth of such a scam. And by requiring such high conversion fees it only contributes to a very convoluted and mixed system that is confusing at best and unfair to one group or the other (points or fixed)...just offer for everybody that owns to get their points instead and everyone benefits.

 

[tschwa2]

There are very few resorts that make you convert. It isn't necessarily the resort that is giving you the strong arm making you feel like you have to convert. It is usually the commissioned sales person who is pitching the points to you that try to make you feel that if you don't you will not be able to continue to use the system like you always have. I think most HOA's think of it as giving owners additional options at a fee that they can optionally pay and take advantage of or not and continue as always.

Do you want to call out a specific resort or developer?

 

[AwayWeGo]

Points Conversion Is Way Overpriced. Ditto Full Freight Timeshares.

Do you think the points conversions are a big scam?

RCI Points ?

Not an outright scam, but certainly lots more than I am willing to pay. Then again, I likewise won't pay timeshare company prices for timeshares.

For a fraction of what the timeshare company would have charged to do a points conversion, I bought (via eBay, & not all at once) three -- 3 -- nice points timeshares that were already points-converted & that remained converted upon transfer to me. When I was done with'm, I gave away 2 & resold 1. Then I bought another, smaller eBay points unit that likewise stayed converted when transferred to me. (We're downsizing.)

My eBay points timeshares came with free closing, free resort transfer, & free paid-ahead maintenance fees (i.e, free points). By contrast, the timeshare company's price for points conversion alone would have been several times the total I paid for all 4 eBay points timeshares.

By me, points conversion means paying the timeshare company big bux for another form of what you already own. Around here, that's a non-starter.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[raygo123]

Around 85 or 86 I converted a week deeded to Wyndham points. As mentioned "new points system", in my case my resort broke from Wyndham so I had a chance to buy into points. It cost me $1200 and no additional purchase. So let's say about $3000 in todays money. To me, it was worth it. It was resale. I do not know if it can be done today.

You mentioned is one group favored? I know, as Ron has pointed out, they are different trusts. So as the pools change, one gets bigger the other smaller, your chances remain relatively the same to book a reservation. In Wyndham's case, there fingers remain in the proper pie, not stealing from one to satisfy the other.

I think if you're going early on a change in management may be the best deal.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[theo]

Wanted to get other opinions on the practice of timeshare resorts/mgt companies that make you pay to convert your fixed or floating week to a "new" points system.

As an owner, you either paid via the developer or 3rd party resale, provided your timely maintenance fees, paid any assessments and in general been a good owner. Now to play in a new and I'm sure somewhat better value proposition called a points system you have to pay them more monies!

So help me understand why in most timeshare discussions I don't see owners getting to a stage of foaming at the mouth of such a scam. And by requiring such high conversion fees it only contributes to a very convoluted and mixed system that is confusing at best and unfair to one group or the other (points or fixed)...just offer for everybody that owns to get their points instead and everyone benefits.

Personally, I do not believe that conversion is truly a "scam", per se, but I still think it is certainly very unwise for anyone to pay twice for something already owned.
"Conversion" (e.g. RCI Points) is not mandatory anyhow, so any owner can (to quote the late Nancy Reagan) "Just say no" to conversion. So, where's the "scam"?

From the resort point of view, "conversion" (to RCI Points, for specific example) is something of a cash cow --- and one way to impart value and flexibility and demand to weeks of otherwise little or no demand or value without associated points. After all, points can then always be used elsewhere in RCI, whereas a stand alone "dog" week (i.e., without associated points) may be of little or no worth for actual use or as "exchange" fodder. A resort wants owners who pay their fees --- and the resort couldn't possibly care less whether their points owners ever actually set foot on the resort property or not, just as long as they keep paying their maintenance fees.

Scam? No. However, is it wise or prudent for an owner to pay a few grand out of pocket to "convert" what they already own? No again.

 

[rickandcindy23]

There are scam companies who offer a free dinner, then try to get you to give up your inferior week at a resort for their better RCI Points resort with maintenance fees of like $600 and you get 42,000 points, something like that. Those are definitely scams.

I also thought PAHIO was nuts, when they sold weeks to people and then decided to double down on profit and wanted people to pay through the nose to join RCI points. So now they sold the week for an ungodly amount of money, but now you really need to get points to go the places you want to go besides Kauai. I was annoyed with that sales pitch, and then Wyndham came along, and lo and behold, an entirely new system to sell.

We sat in the hot tub with some people who had just converted to RCI Points with their developer-purchased Vacation Village at Parkway week. I tried to talk them out of it, but there was no way I could convince them not to pay again for something not much better.

There is a sucker born every minute.

 

[Talent312]

We were told: "Weeks are going away. Pretty soon you won't be able to do anything with it."

My reply: "We come here every year just to use what we already own.
So, we don't care. We're not gonn'a pay again to use what we own."
.

 

[moonstone]

We were told: "Weeks are going away. Pretty soon you won't be able to do anything with it."

My reply: "We come here every year just to use what we already own.
So, we don't care. We're not gonn'a pay again to use what we own."
.

We were fed that weeks are going away line too - but not at our home resort. Our resort wanted more to convert to points than what we had originally purchased the (floating) week for in the early '80's! We told them we aren't going to buy again what we already paid for once! So we found a cheap resale points package and use it in addition to our week.


~Diane

 

[theo]

The "weeks are going away" line from deceitful sales weasels is a popular (but patently false) statement taken from their "conversion marketing" songbook.

It's certainly true that various forms and flavors of points and clubs and RTU's are numerous and widespread, but a deeded ownership of real estate (specific property, fixed week, fixed unit) remains precisely that --- a solid ownership of real estate, despite whatever may be happening in the points / club / trust / RTU world.

"Weeks are going away" is a silly and meaningless claim made by hungry sales weasels to try to create a sense of panic or urgency for a prospective "convert".
It's a gross exaggeration --- just another one of the many boldfaced lies sales weasels routinely spew as they desperately attempt to "seal the deal".

 

[jackio]

We owned Summer Bay Las Vegas.mi bought the units off Ebay for next to nothing. A couple of years later they tried to sell us an RCI points conversion for several thousand dollars. They used the same argument, "weeks are becoming obsolete", and touted the benefits of points-for-deposit. So if I converted with them, I could deposit all my other units week based resorts in to my new RCI points. Because I owned 2 units I would not have to pay double to convert. They would convert both my weeks for slightly more than one conversion. Yada, yada.
We declined, and a few years later, Holiday Inn Vacation Club took over the resort and converted our weeks for $104 each which included our first year's RCI points account. So it worked out well for us.

 

[Theousaf]

Would never switch to points

This past March we had a meeting at one of our Timeshares in Aruba to convert our six weeks to RCI points. It would cost us about $15,000 to do so however we would get a bunch of benefits such as discounts at all there restaurants, early check in, etc. The woman with whom we spoke assured us we could always get our prime weeks...weeks Feb & March. Prior to our meetings I researched RCI and Interval on TripAdvisor, Yelp and Consumer Affairs, all gave RCI 1 star out of 5. So I read the reviews and was surprised what I read. Many claimed they converted prime weeks however could never get those weeks when they called RCI.

I understand that the only folks converting are those that had weeks in the summer who were promised being able to use those points to buy into prime weeks. But those of us, with those prime weeks, haven't converted so there is no prime inventory. The resort is now building three new towers that are going to be points only.

 

[geekette]

I personally think it is a scam, but one should never be forced to convert. That is the real issue and I would take action on that if ever it were to occur.

That there is a cost to convert is not surprising, the jacking up of that fee is not surprising.

I have no use for RCI Points and am particularly annoyed by the shifting nature of points value. To me that is seriously heinous.

 

[elaine]

my thoughts: prime week, esp. if you use your week--it would be crazy to convert (even for free). Salesmen have been saying that for at least 7 years now.

 

[TUGBrian]

scam might be a stretch, but paying to convert in most cases is little more than a money grab!

you have to figure out if its worth the cost to you in any situation...but one should never believe the threats that come out of a salesmans mouth!

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/convert_timeshare_deeded_week_to_points.html

 

[JoelyTheBear]

Marriott Experience with Points

When Marriott initiated points some years ago, they offered to convert our deeds at Newport Coast Village for free. We declined. A few years later, they offered a "deal" to do the same thing, but for $25,000 total for our weeks. Needless to say, we would not pay to do what we declined to do for free. In the years following that, we have used our deeded weeks with no problem, and even bought more deeded weeks. But our wrinkle is that we bought our weeks to use them there, not to enter the marketplace of swaps. If you want to play in a market, you need to buy into the rules of the exchange. So there's no scam here, but for us no value either.

 

[BocaBoy]

When Marriott initiated points some years ago, they offered to convert our deeds at Newport Coast Village for free. We declined. A few years later, they offered a "deal" to do the same thing, but for $25,000 total for our weeks. Needless to say, we would not pay to do what we declined to do for free. In the years following that, we have used our deeded weeks with no problem, and even bought more deeded weeks. But our wrinkle is that we bought our weeks to use them there, not to enter the marketplace of swaps. If you want to play in a market, you need to buy into the rules of the exchange. So there's no scam here, but for us no value either.

I own at Marriott and I question your facts. That is simply not what they did. Almost everything you say about the Marriott system, and the introduction of their points option, is false.

 

[eyeguy2020]

Everyone's situation is unique. I agree that for many it does not make sense to convert. But there are situations where it can make sense.

We converted to RCI Points about 8 years ago and paid about $3,000. Over the years we have saved over $15,000 by getting access to trades (internal exchanges) into high demand weeks that would not have been available if we stayed in RCI weeks. The only other way to get access to those vacations would have been to rent from other owners, which is much more expensive
($1,500 more per week compared to using points).

 

[stmartinfan]

At our resort , we went through the pitch to convert to RCI points many years ago. We declined, because we use a week in SXM every year and have great success with our internal trades via Divi. RCI Points would have forced us to keep an RCI membership and to access only what was available via Points. Since many units weren't in Points it would have limited our access. Of course the internal sales staff sold it hard (because the fee was pure profit for Divi) but we knew enough from TUG to understand the reality.

Now the resort has changed to II. I imagine qthe RCI Points owners are still able to use that system, but now there's even more confusion about what's happening. The latest is an effort to sell people Divi's vacation club...they are calling and trying to schedule calls with some outside sales group to pitch this...with another charge of course. We're not even going to talk with them. The SXM ownership is an RTU that will expire about the time we're too old to travel there!

 

[napfabob]

When Marriott offered me points for my week in Maui, I asked the salesman which we believed was being incredibly honest whether in fact the points would allow me to come back for seven days at the same resort at the same time of year. He indicated that the answer was no and in fact, I would have a difficult time using the points conversion to get five days where I currently have seven by owning the week. We declined the point conversion.

 

[smaccrac]

We have a few timeshares, and Caribbean Palm told us that a representative was coming to present a new program. Was told about converting to points at the price of $3,000. Was also told that soon Caribbean Palm would make us convert at a much higher price, so we foolishly converted (we have now learned a valuable lesson). That wasn't all, as we also found to use these points we would have to upgrade our II membership to Gold, which just added insult to injury. It was just another level to mess with, so we are now back to just using the weeks. Good luck!

 

[jpd88]

Exactly the same experience

When Marriott offered me points for my week in Maui, I asked the salesman which we believed was being incredibly honest whether in fact the points would allow me to come back for seven days at the same resort at the same time of year. He indicated that the answer was no and in fact, I would have a difficult time using the points conversion to get five days where I currently have seven by owning the week. We declined the point conversion.

I own Marriott Ocean Club in Maui and I use a January or February week every year. If I converted to points, I'd be SOL for the prime months.

 

[hak]

We owned Summer Bay Las Vegas.mi bought the units off Ebay for next to nothing. A couple of years later they tried to sell us an RCI points conversion for several thousand dollars. They used the same argument, "weeks are becoming obsolete", and touted the benefits of points-for-deposit. So if I converted with them, I could deposit all my other units week based resorts in to my new RCI points. Because I owned 2 units I would not have to pay double to convert. They would convert both my weeks for slightly more than one conversion. Yada, yada.
We declined, and a few years later, Holiday Inn Vacation Club took over the resort and converted our weeks for $104 each which included our first year's RCI points account. So it worked out well for us.

JACKIO - I just found out Holiday Inn Vacation Club has purchased our Silverleaf timeshare. Do you think this is a good thing or not? I'm not familiar with them.

 

[bcancelliere]

Think about it. If a developer is selling weeks, he has 52 per unit. And if he is selling points for use in the same unit or for exchange, how many can he sell? UNLIMITED!
Now instead of knowing you have a specific week in red season, you are hoping there is not more demand than supply for the week you hope to get.

It's a great deal for the developer and you will never get him out and be able to pick your own management team. You will pay the management fee he selects. In my home timeshare, Sky Valley in Georgia, the individual timeshare groups come together and hire an office manager who runs the office, cleaning and service / repair team. As a result, our maintenance fees are under $400 a year.

 

[SmithOp]

They cant sell unlimited points, each allotment of points has to be backed up with a deed put in the points trust. The problem is when they put all the dog weeks in there and there are no prime weeks to book in that inventory pool.


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[jackio]

JACKIO - I just found out Holiday Inn Vacation Club has purchased our Silverleaf timeshare. Do you think this is a good thing or not? I'm not familiar with them.

I think if they let you convert for little or no money, it is a good thing because it will open up opportunities for internal trades, partial weeks, the ability to convert your points to Holiday Inn hotel points, etc. They are really expanding their network, so there are lots of opportunities for internal trades but the more desirable resorts might cost more points then you are allotted.

If they are charging thousands of dollars, you would really have to look at it and see if you would use the system.

I find that their RCI points are not as valuable to me as my RCI weeks. 98,000 HIVC points translates to 49,000 RCI points. But I was able to book a nice New Orleans week through them for Columbus Day week.