Juno - Wanting to be a Mom

[mepiccolo]

So I just watched Juno and watching Jennifer Garner yearning to be a mother was real touching for me because I remember being that girl. I am now the happy mother of two loud, bounce off the wall boys, and I wouldn't change it for the world, but I remember when I thought I couldn't have kids and looking at adoption web sites wanting so badly to be a mother, my own or to an adopted child. Which leads me to this question. And please don't think I am judging anyone who doesn't want to have kids, not at all, heck it's not for everyone that's for sure, there are some days I wonder if I'm cut out for it...but I never doubted for one second that I wanted to be someone's mommy.

I know two men who are married, both successful and professional (only mention it because money is not an issue for either of them) and their wives both are saying that they are "on the fence" or "not sure" about having kids. Watching Juno confirms what I have suspected all along-you either do or you don't. If you're in a happy marriage and have the means, I don't think a woman still "isn't sure". I believe both these women know that it's not for them but they don't want to confirm it to their husbands. What do you think?

 

[janapur]

I have a friend who married and then divorced young. It was her decision to focus on her marriage for the first five years of her second time around. They had agreed to not even discuss having children during those first five years.

Well, I won't go into detail about the finite number of eggs a woman is able to produce and the dramatic decline relative to the advancement of her age. It seems we rarely hear about all of the fertility struggles of advanced age celebrities. For whatever reason, they never did have kids.

I have often said that the one role in my life in which I feel completely fulfilled is that of mom . . . not to my childless friends.

 

[teachingmyown]

My best friend had no desire to have kids and neither did her husband for about the first 5-10 years of their relationship. Money wasn't the issue, a stable relationship wasn't the issue; I think they just hadn't finished being "kids" themselves and couldn't picture themselves as someone's parents. Suddenly they realized that there was an inner longing they hadn't noticed before. It took a bit of time, but they succeeded and now are both CRAZY about their kids, even to the point of daydreaming about more...

Sometimes it just takes time.

 

[mepiccolo]

But what if...

The marriage is happy
Money isn't an issue
The big house is already theirs

...and time is running out (38 for one of the wives, 36 for the other). Is it really possible for a woman at that point in the game to "be on the fence" about it?

I should mention that in both the instances I'm referring to the men openly spoke of having children before they married and the wives went along as if it was going to happen.

 

[geoffb]

If they got married without discussing their plans for children and reaching an agreement then things may not end well if they discover they are not in sync. It depends on how strongly the husbands feel about the issue.

 

[mepiccolo]

My guess is that one couple will stay married (not as big a priority to that husband and his wife is really good for him) but I do suspect the other couple won't stay together, it's just too important to him. Actually, I believe that one chose to marry the girl he did because she seemed like a woman who would make a good wife and mother (he always dated "WOW!" girls and his wife is kind of girl-next-door, more of the brainy type). I have other friends who agreed not to have children before they married and they are happy as can be. But I feel for these two guys, because they thought they were going to get the happy family when they married. I know what I would do if I was in their position, it's called annulment...based on fraud. I can't help but think it's a pretty crappy thing to do to someone, have them marry you under false pretenses. It's destructive to the very foundation of your marriage to not be honest to the person you're marrying.

 

[lprstn]

When I was single, I didn't want kids, didn't want to babysit a kid, didn't want to hold a baby, didn't want to even be around kids. Why? I don't know, could be lots of reasons, maybe I was just focused on me. However, when I got married I married a man with a 2.5 year old daughter that I had to raise with him during the summers and 1 weekend a month. I loved her instantly, maybe because during those times she was all mine and I didn't have to share her to often with her mom. After she came into my life, I since wanted more children. I now have 4 more with my husband and if my youngest wasn't such a handfull and I wasn't so old, I probably would have had more....

However, my motto is, if someone doesn't want kids then they probably shouldn't have them. Even wanting and loving mine, somedays its hard keeping it all together and I want to run off for a mommy moment (maybe a weekend completely alone - or time with my DH where only I am the center of his attention). I couldn't imagine what I would feel like or do if I didn't want to deal with the responsibility in the first place. If you don't want kids than you will suffer and the kid will suffer, and in that case its not worth it.

Also, if 1 spouse wants one and the other doesn't than it will never work. That is an awful big sacrifice to give up for someone (hence probably why Brad Pitt left Jennifer...I can't blame him at all in that type of scenario).

Having kids has made me work harder, push harder, love harder, and grow in ways I never would have thought possible before they came into my life. Not having them would have made me a very different person than I am today.

 

[neash]

Having a daughter ( and the responsibility of being a Mom) has kept me sane through some of the most difficult times of my life. I would have loved to have more kids, but am grateful that I have at least one. (thats one thing my ex did right )

 

[geoffb]

My guess is that one couple will stay married (not as big a priority to that husband and his wife is really good for him) but I do suspect the other couple won't stay together, it's just too important to him.

Disagreement on this topic would certainly put a heavy strain on a marriage and could lead to divorce.

I know what I would do if I was in their position, it's called annulment...based on fraud. I can't help but think it's a pretty crappy thing to do to someone, have them marry you under false pretenses. It's destructive to the very foundation of your marriage to not be honest to the person you're marrying.

You are assuming there was an agreed plan to have children before they got married. Ideally couples should discuss this but many do not.

And even if they do have a plan, people change their life goals. Then a couple needs to decide if they can reach a new understanding or if that is the end of a marriage. I have seen examples of both. Things end badly when the process gets drawn out and people are not honest with themselves and each other about the situation.

 

[Cathy in Boston]

Jennifer Garner was fantastic in that role, wasn't she. What a great film.

I decided when I was about 19 that I didn't want children (I'm 54 now). I have been subjected to some of the rudest comments you can ever imagine. I always try to just smile and walk away, but sometimes it's hard to hold my tongue. I especially remember the time I was told, "How can you not want kids? What's wrong with you?" This comment came from someone who had had her first child at 16 - one of the most poorly behaved children I have ever known, by the way.

When my husband first mentioned marriage (we'll be married 18 years next month), the first words out of my mouth were, "You do realize I am serious when I say I don't want children?" We talked about it, and it is something we both agree on. We have never regretted our decision.

 

[isisdave]

My wife's a marriage therapist and has seen several couples like this. Some work it out, some don't. To me, this is question #1 in deciding whom to marry. I can't imagine not discussing it beforehand.

One couple married with the agreement to have children. Hubby demurred; wife gave him a year to think it over. He didn't come around. She promptly dumped him (even though she loved him) and found someone with daddy inclinations.

In another case, the wife constantly put it off ... hubby worked on her with lots of encouragement and enthusiasm. She took the leap and they now have three, quite happily.

Usually, one of them manages to convince the other, at least for a while.

Our own case went the other way. We married at 40; I had a 22-year-old daughter and she had given up the idea after futile fertility treatment. So we didn't plan on kids. Two years later, her best friend was pregnant and said "why don't you adopt?" I was stunned, but I'd do anything for this woman. Six months later I was changing diapers ... again. And I got a lifetime membership pin from the PTA. Two more years of high school to go....

You know, it would be worth it for your friends, either individually or as a couple, or both, to explore this with a marriage counselor. Sometimes reasons for feelings aren't obvious, and maybe are based on weird family history, or assumptions about the present that aren't true. A good counselor can help bring this information out, which can really clarify the issues. Good luck to them.

 

[mepiccolo]

Actually, both husbands in these situations spoke openly about having children in the future and in both instances the wives just went along nodding there head, like "Yeah, it's going to happen." There was no mention by the wives of not wanting children until after the wedding. Especially for the one who it is very important for, I'm not even personal close friends with him but I remember him telling me at one point that he wanted to have children. If I knew, of course his girlfriend, then fiancee, then wife knew he wanted kids so waiting until she had the ring on her finger to then say, "Well I'm not sure about having kids." is what bothers me about it. I applaud the couples who agree not to have kids and stay happily married. I just find what these two wives did disturbing because if they weren't sure they didn't want kids they should have mentioned it before the wedding, not after. And I go back to the movie Juno to point out what most often times a woman feels like when she wants to be a mother - there's normally no uncertainty about it. Of course it doesn't always work out how you want (meeting Mr. Right, fertility issues, etc.) but I'd say 95% of the time a woman just knows if she wants to be a mom or not. She doesn't just decide after the marriage that she's on the fence about it...obviously neither of these wives were on board to begin with-they just didn't speak up so their husbands would be duped into marrying them. Honestly, if it wasn't important to the husbands they would have been honest about their intentions not to reproduce. It's their deception that bothers me.

 

[Andar]

Genetic?

I was one that enjoyed saying we were "child free" not "childless" when we were first married. We did hippie thing, traveling cross country several times. After being married seven years it felt right to have kids and we both wanted them.

My daughter has said since she was 2yrs old she didn't want to be a mommy. She never played with dolls, babysat, etc. She is now 30 and still insists she will never have children. I to believe if they don't want them please don't have them.

My husband has 7 siblings; 2 girls. The girls never had children and never wanted them either. All the boys did; my son wants them.

Can that maternal need be genetic???

 

[Lisa P]

I completely agree with Isisdave. Counseling would help the couples clarify what they really want and why. It could help them work it out in a way that isn't destructive to the marriage.

For some women, the idea of having children represents lots of scary things: It's such a one-way street. Once you've got one, you don't go back. Some women worry about the impacts it will have on their body, on their marriage, on their career, on their self-image, on their independence. They may see, more and more as time goes by, how determined a woman must be to keep up the fun wife/exciting lover/committed career person roles - once there's a needy baby in one's life. Sometimes, people judge, but these can be realistic concerns and uneasiness, especially for someone who really wants to "do it right, if she'll do it at all." Once you have a baby, you can't just up and go - life gets much more complicated. Definitely worth it to most of us, but complicated.

Also, some women have worked very hard at creating a healthy adult life completely unlike the sad ones they've seen or feared having, where a woman who has trusted the man/men in her life has been hurt or abandoned. For these women, pregnancy can represent tremendous vulnerability and dependency. It can be hard to define and counseling can help a lot.

I have always strongly wanted a family and so, these things have not been issues for me personally. But they sure have for some of my friends! A person may want to have children with his/her spouse, and mentally fully agree that it's part of the plan, but then get serious "cold feet" or anxiety when it comes down to it. And then there are the folks who just really struggle with change, in general. For them, why mess with a good thing, when a marriage seems good as it is. Such a major change, as a move across country or having a baby or considering the possibility of having a child with special needs (especially for a mom-to-be over age 35) is just something they'll avoid even seriously thinking about. It's simply not all that cut and dried, especially looking from the outside.

If "time is running out," that's all the more reason to address these issues with a good therapist ASAP. It's not easy for some women (or men) to fully identify their reasons without good counseling. And if they can't identify them, they can't deal with them. What they each thought before marriage, years ago, may have changed. But both spouses need to have their interests here respected, whether pro or con. Pressuring a person to have children, if there are underlying issues, is unwise. So is shoving it under the rug, when someone has a powerful desire to have children - that just breeds resentment. Gotta deal with it - Git 'er done!

 

[mepiccolo]

I don't want to give out more info than I already have for the confidentiality of those involved but both couples are in counseling. I agree if you dont' want them the last thing you should do is "be talked into it". That would suck not just for the mom but for the child also. I mean, it could work out but it also could potentially be disastrous-too big a risk to take. I actually have heard of women secretly admitting they wished they'd never had kids. I hope their kids didn't know that. While I would never say my own mother was perfect I wouldn't hesitate to say that every day I have been alive I have known without a doubt her deep love for me. In my heart of hearts it was something I wanted to experience from the other end of it...that deep love for a child. I just personally didn't want to not experience that. It is a very personal decision, but in the context of a marriage-it's something that should not be negotiated after the vows. I guess any single men out there who want children can take this as a cautionary tale-be absolutely sure the woman you marry has the same future plans for a family as you do. It's heartbreaking for the one yearning to have that door slammed in their face by the person they vowed to be with for better or for worse.

 

[jlr10]

Some people say they don't want to have children when they are having trouble concieving. It is a lot easier to say they don't want children then to have to say they haven't been able to have children. They would rather have people think they are selfish than to discuss what can be a very painful topic.

We had done nothing to prevent children, but after a few years of marriage we were still childless. I found it very intrusive when people would badger me as to why we had no children. First because we didn't know, and second because we weren't sure if we wanted to have children at that point. But the reasons were nobody else's business. I finally perfected an icy stare when people asked "Why don't you have any children?" The last time I was asked that question was at church. I gave my usual glare, and the person stopped and said "I guess this is really none of my business is it?" I responded "No. It isn't." People quit asking after that. Two years later my son arrived. We are glad that he is a part of our lives, and can't really imagine life without him. But we had pretty much changed our minds about having children. Neither of us was deceptive before we got married, we just changed our mind. Sometimes it just happens.

 

[3kids4me]

Having kids changed my life in the most beautiful, positive ways, and also, of course, has brought me (at times) heartache beyond belief. I knew from a very young age that being a mother would be very important to me.

However, I would never judge anyone's decision to have or not have children, nor presume to guess what may go on in the depths of a marriage when this is such a personal decision.

In reading your many posts on these two couples, mepiccolo, I think you might want to explore why you are so incensed about these personal decisions being made by these couples. They are grown-ups and I'm sure will make the decision that is best for them. Since I'm not into judging, I don't want to judge you either and I don't want this post to come off like that, but I was pretty concerned while reading your multiple posts because you seemed to get more and more worked up with each one (i.e. saying that the husbands were "duped" and married "under false pretenses" and even using the word "fraud" without really knowing, of course, how these couples feel.). Maybe something to think about....

 

[arlene22]

Some people say they don't want to have children when they are having trouble concieving. It is a lot easier to say they don't want children then to have to say they haven't been able to have children. They would rather have people think they are selfish than to discuss what can be a very painful topic.

My dearest friend and her husband decided not to have children. After about 10 years of marriage, she remarked that people have finally stopped asking her when is she going to get pregnant. She surmised that they must finally have accepted her decision and learned not to make rude comments. I told her, no, people who ask those rude questions will never learn to stop. They just cannot understand that decision. They have probably decided that you are having fertility issues and so now they are feeling sorry for you and don't want to make you feel bad by bringing it up. She thought that was hilarious.

 

[Cathy in Boston]

Arlene, I know what your friend means. My Mother In Law finally stopped asking right around my 50th birthday....LOL.

 

[mepiccolo]

Having kids changed my life in the most beautiful, positive ways, and also, of course, has brought me (at times) heartache beyond belief. I knew from a very young age that being a mother would be very important to me.

However, I would never judge anyone's decision to have or not have children, nor presume to guess what may go on in the depths of a marriage when this is such a personal decision.

In reading your many posts on these two couples, mepiccolo, I think you might want to explore why you are so incensed about these personal decisions being made by these couples. They are grown-ups and I'm sure will make the decision that is best for them. Since I'm not into judging, I don't want to judge you either and I don't want this post to come off like that, but I was pretty concerned while reading your multiple posts because you seemed to get more and more worked up with each one (i.e. saying that the husbands were "duped" and married "under false pretenses" and even using the word "fraud" without really knowing, of course, how these couples feel.). Maybe something to think about....

You leave me no choice but to defend myself. I feel strongly about it because both husbands spoke to me about it. Like in the movie Juno (Jennifer Garner's character) I saw their pain, especially one of them-he really wants kids, always wanted kids and the wife knew that. I know enough about both situations to know that the wives are not wanting to even try to get pregnant because "they are on the fence about it", so yes, there could be fertility problems down the road, but that's not what is going on. I do feel really strongly about it because both of my male friends were open about wanting children and their respective wives both didn't reveal their true feelings about not wanting children until after the wedding. Both of these guys are successful businessmen, they didn't want for female attention so yes, I feel they were duped and yes, I am incensed for them because I personally saw/see their yearning when they look at my children. It's a rotten situation and it didn't have to be if the wives had been honest, then these men could have decided to marry them regardless, if they decided having that person as a wife was more important than having kids. You just reminded me that I knew another woman who secretly kept taking the pill and let her husband keep thinking that they were having problems conceiving. Marriage should be based on honesty and shared goals, not the wants of just one of the spouses. I felt awful for my friends after I spoke with them (both within a 2 month period) Watching Juno made me revisit what I thought all along---these women are saying "they're not sure" but I don't think they're being honest, given their age, their means and the good husbands they have, if you want kids you want them...you don't, you don't. Saying they are on the fence about it is just dangling the golden carrot in front of their husbands...I feel bad for these men.