Wyndham must control the resale to shore up asset values!

[bnoble]

I’m totally fine being a parasite. SNA27: welcome to TUG and my ignore list. Others: don’t feed the trolls.

 

[Grammarhero]

I’m totally fine being a parasite. SNA27: welcome to TUG and my ignore list. Others: don’t feed the trolls.

Hey @bnoble. I think both you and @chapjim are Wyndham VIPs. Congrats on being Wyndham VIPs the right, wise way.

 

[bogey21]

But, I am not into rescission! To rescind is to shirk my responsibility for my decision and admit that I was a fool who didn't know to walk away!

You and Wyndham negotiated a contract. One of the terms agreed to is the right to rescind. Some exercise that right. Some choose not to...

George

 

[Eric B]

Of course that is the goal. Five years after the introduction of Ovation, there are just as many $1 Club Wyndham timeshares for sale on ebay as before the introduction of Ovation. The goal will be forever elusive.

The only explanation I can offer is the "exit companies" do a better job of marketing their $2,000-3,000 services than Wyndham does marketing "get out for nothing" Ovation service. Buyers of the exit companies' ebay auctions might get a CWA contract for next to nothing; buyers of an Ovation resale will pay $220/thousand points.

The Wyndham (or any other timeshare company) retail buyers must not know about the resale market.

Actually, sustaining resale price doesn't really appear to be the goal. Ovations allows Wyndham to recycle ownerships through sales at a lower cost because they avoid the need for the HOA to foreclose on a timeshare that is in default for non-payment of MFs, then transfer the ownership to Wyndham in order for them to sell it.

Another way of looking at it: the previous owner got $6000. So the investment in Wyndham is not worth 0 and has some intrinsic value to other buyers!

I seriously doubt that the previous owner got $6000. Wyndham acquired the contract either through foreclosure for failure to pay the loan or MFs, as a trade-in for an upgrade, or through Ovations. Wyndham doesn't act as a broker for resales. In the case of a trade-in for an upgrade, the previous owner may have gotten some credit towards a higher cost contract, but the fair market value of that credit is questionable.

The fundamental problem I have with the argument presented in this thread is that it ignores any sort of understanding of the market or fair market values. The retail market prices are supported by asymmetric knowledge of the resale market prices in a form of market segmentation. As @Grammarhero notes, there may be some additional value to a retail purchase if it allows one to obtain the VIP benefits, which is why I've purchased Wyndham retail and added PICs. As far as all that goes, though, I'm actually the parasite in this situation because my VIP discounts and room upgrades are paid for out of the program fees that everyone, including the resale purchasers. I am able to be a parasite, though I view it as more of a symbiotic relationship because of the support of the developer in my purchases, which enables development of more resorts, because I've managed to overcome the knowledge asymmetry through the use of my time spent reading TUG postings by others with more experience. @SNA27 and others can complain about the motives of the market participants, but that's what capitalism and the free market is about. Tuggers are just the folks that read the classified ads and reviews before they go shopping....

 

[Grammarhero]

Sorry, I came here to learn the system and not how to game the system! I guess you and I have different motivations!

It seemed like you came here to complain and disparage resale buyers as parasites.

Want to know a sophisticated, savvy Wyndham resale strategy from @dgalati ? Want to know how to get 100k Wyndham pts usage for free?

I haven’t done this yet. Get a 100k Grand Desert or National Harbor Ts for $1. Once you get your Wyndham points, deposit into RCI for $19. Sell to Timeshare Broker Associates for $110, the cost of two month MF and RCI exchange fee.

Viola! 100k Wyndham pts usage for free! I can only imagine your self-righteous indignation upon learning about this.

 

[geist1223]

Any ecosystem where the young/able prey upon the old/disabled instead of sustaining them equitably is bound to fail!

It seems like the Natural World doing exactly this has survived quite well, except when man interfers.

 

[paxsarah]

But a lot of negative opinions expressed here don't distinguish between the greatness of the product from the sliminess of the sellers of the product!

I see this distinction made here constantly. Now, if you were talking about some of the Wyndham Facebook groups you’d have a point. But on TUG, people unfailingly acknowledge the contrast between the sales tactics and the underlying product.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Welcome to TUG I glad you decided to become a member .
Interesting points you make / from the vantage point of 1.4 Wyndham ownership.
There is nothing wrong with ROFR as a concept and there are certainly TS systems that regularly use it .
-not having it may have something to do with how Wyndham evolved as a company and its historical roots back to Fairfield Resorts (started in 1966 )
Perhaps a long time owner can add information .

Please realize that TUG's business model includes ownership by TUG Brian . His Dad started this forum many years ago.
There are moderators and certain contentious issues of the "other dimension world" are not part of posting etiquette on TUG.

Happy USA Thanksgiving from those of us who enjoy ours in October
(non controversial Turkey comments are allowed)

Reposting my post from last night .

Please realize that TUG business model includes ownership by TUG Brian . His Dad started this forum many years ago.

There are moderators and certain contentious issues of the “other dimension world “ are not a part of posting etiquette on TUG .

added - good TIMESHARE debate with respect for others opinions certainly is allowed .

Happy USA Thanksgiving - from those of us who enjoy ours in October
(non controversial Turkey comments are allowed)

 

[Grammarhero]

I see this distinction made here constantly. Now, if you were talking about some of the Wyndham Facebook groups you’d have a point. But on TUG, people unfailingly acknowledge the contrast between the sales tactics and the underlying product.

@paxsarah thanks for all your help in teaching me about Wyndham. I got 434k pts for $7. I actually got Grand Desert 158k for $2.

 

[Eric B]

Happy USA Thanksgiving - from those of us who enjoy ours in October
(non controversial Turkey comments are allowed)

That should be turkey , not Turkey , otherwise it’s bound to be controversial, @T-Dot-Traveller ....

Happy month after Thanksgiving, by the way!

 

[Eric B]

When do they sellabrate Black Friday in Canada, by the way?

 

[Grammarhero]

Reposting my post from last night .

Please realize that TUG business model includes ownership by TUG Brian . His Dad stated this forum many years ago.

There are moderators and certain contentious issues of the “other dimension world “ are not a part
of posting etiquette .

added - good TIMESHARE debate with respect for others opinions certainly is allowed .

Happy USA Thanksgiving - from those of us who enjoy ours in October
(non controversial Turkey comments are allowed)

The OP doesn’t respect Wyndham resale buyers calling them parasites. I have great respect for Wyndham VIPs who bought resales, PICs, and/or retail telesales, as it’s cheaper in the long run. We all benefited when these Wyndham VIPs imparted their knowledge.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

When do they sellabrate Black Friday in Canada, by the way?

tomorrow - but of course the “sales “are all week at retailers such as :
Canadian Tire / Toys R Us Canada . (Target & Sears both left)

Black Friday sales in Canada - started about 6+ years ago /when the loonie (Cdn dollar)
was higher and cross border shopping was bigger . It was a marketing tactic to keep retail
spending local .

Of course - we still have BOXING DAY ( December 26 ) - which is a biggie sellabration / markdown & clearance - all in one .

 

[dgalati]

Happy Thanksgiving to the Turkey Users Group!

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

... @T-Dot/USER] ....

Happy month after Thanksgiving, by the way!

For the football fans in Canada - it is all day NFL - on a work Thursday .

the CFL championship was last Sunday - with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers
beating the Hamilton Ticats to win the Grey Cup .

 

[Eric B]

For the football fans in Canada - it is all day NFL - on a work Thursday .

the CFL championship was last Sunday - with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers
beating the Hamilton Ticats to win the Grey Cup .

Looks like you spelled “sick day off work” wrong, Tom....

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

The OP doesn’t respect Wyndham resale buyers calling them parasites. I have great respect for Wyndham VIPs who bought resales, PICs, and/or retail telesales, as it’s cheaper in the long run. We all benefited when these Wyndham VIPs imparted their knowledge.

The OP - SNA27 is a new member and is still learning the ropes .
not the first time someone new to TUG - at first thought this was a trash talk “twitter “ forum
Some stay and learn and adopt the TUG concept - some leave after a few posts .

I hope SNA27 is able to stay and adds and gets value on TUG
I think the Wyndham forum is a good example of information sharing
(I have learned a lot as a non- owner of Wyndham )

******

I would like to see more of this positive information sharing with regard to Westgate in particular .
I think “we “ sometimes chase away new Westgate owners by the focus on the issues of
benefit removal by the developer upon resale . Westgate has a large ownership base .
but only limited information can be gleaned from threads on TUG .

 

[bobinmich]

<sniff> Mom in heaven....why did you have me grow up to be a parasite....? I thought all the good I do for society, and the less fortunate <sniff> would help me be a good person....but now....I find out I'm just a parasite... <sniff><sniff>….

 

[Sandy VDH]

@SNA27 and other who come to TUG right after drinking the Kool-Aid often feel the need to justify what they have done, and disparage those who have found a more cost effective way to achieve a similar result.

I am a VIP Platinum owner who has only every purchased 160K directly from Wyndham to achieve that. In the past there were creative and allowable ways to achieve Status, but most avenues have been removed by Wyndham, except for the buy it directly from Wyndham method. Utilizing PIC is the most cost effective way to achieve that, but MOST of these boards would not agree on the cash outlay to achieve it. But if you have already spent prior to your arrival at TUG, then the opportunity cost to achieve it might be acceptable.

I am not planning on adding to my investment to reach the 1.4 Million level. I can't justify what I would get above what I already have for the nearly 400K additional points I would have to buy from Wyndham. I didn't like buying 160K from Wyndham, I am sure I would dislike buying 2.5 times that to achieve whatever the heck they are now calling the 1.4 million level.

So welcome @SNA27, but note that calling us parasites is not a friendly hello.

 

[rapmarks]

I’m wondering if the OP had too much to drink or smoke, is off his medication, is a Wyndham shill, or just a tool.

Anyone who blames liberals for the right of recission is not going to listen to sensible arguments

 

[Grammarhero]

Anyone who blames liberals for the right of recission is not going to listen to sensible arguments

Lol. I started to chuckle. OP loves the environment, dislikes capitalism, blames liberals for right of rescission, but somehow has $70k to blow.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Bears vs Lions kicks off in a few minutes-

Let the eating begin

 

[SNA27]

Firstly, let me state that we enjoy our stay at Wyndham resorts. Far superior to any hotel! You would never know that in the current anti-timeshare hysteria. You would think they are flea-bitten ghettos full of pickpockets!

I have paid full freight on my points. I did score with 2 PICs, which I learnt about on this website one day too late after having purchased 175K Waikiki Beach-Walk at Kona in July 2018. Went back the next day and had to purchase 49K more to to add the 2 PICs. .. long story. I could have rescinded and acted like an UGLY BUYER.

But, I am not into rescission! To rescind is to shirk my responsibility for my decision and admit that I was a fool who didn't know to walk away! My ignorance is no excuse and the manager there (Michael Neal Atkins) was more than helpful!

I resent the whole concept of Buyer's Remorse! When did the liberals get rid of the concept of Caveat Emptor and foist Buyer's Remorse in its place! Right of Rescission actually becomes a slimy sales tool that the unscrupulous sales scum use to exploit the indecisive gullible buyers!
If there was no right of rescission, there would be fewer ill-considered purchases by ill-qualified buyers! It's a psych-ops tool of the slimy salesmen!

I feel that Wyndham is not doing enough to shore up the resale value of my investments. There is something wrong with a capitalistic ecosystem when some people are allowed to game the system when others play by the rules and pay the full freight!

I have suggested to them they should have the first right of refusal and they should simply not refuse. If some member wants to get out, their UDI should be sold by Wyndham to others in the ecosystem!

Wyndham should include a clause in their contract asserting its right of first refusal and to act as a broker to resell the share of anyone who wants out!

I recently bought a piggy-back deal of a resale from a former owner of Smoky Mountains with an additional purchase of 84k points in Bonnet Creek.

If members of this BBS keep asserting Developer prices are too high and resale is the only way to go, I believe the ecosystem will collapse! Parasites will overwhelm the host!

I wonder if those of us who paid the full freight should mount a crusade against RESALE parasites who do not contribute to enlarging the ecosystem but simply consume the host to its inevitable demise! Maybe they serve the same useful purpose in a capitalistic market as short-sellers and option-traders! Scavengers who clean up the irrational mess of the unfit-to-survive and keep the system fit and true!

If I had perused this BBS before I ever got into Wyndham, I am quite sure I would have stayed away from it based on all the negatives! Actually, the slightest negative would have dissuaded me! I won't be in the situation of figuring out how to get the max out of my >1.4 Million points every year! Hopefully, my adult sons and their progeny will get the maximum enjoyment out of it!

As a newbie here, I must apologize for the poor choice of metaphor. Like I said above, short-sellers and options traders play an important part in the capital markets. So do scavengers in nature cleaning up the mess created by others!
But my central point is without the Developer sales, Wyndham will not be able to enlarge its ecosystem! If everybody avoided buying from the developer and only bought resale at distressed prices, the system will not be sustainable.
Had I not liked my stays

at Wyndham​

with 50% discount and VIP upgrades, I would not have invested so much in Wyndham! I wish they had a different selling strategy that does not rely on lies, deception, and obfuscation!
Not all are bad though! Some are straight shooters! Anyway, I don't have to attend any more presentations. If they change the VIP levels again, I am going to pass!

 

[SNA27]

@SNA27 and other who come to TUG right after drinking the Kool-Aid often feel the need to justify what they have done, and disparage those who have found a more cost effective way to achieve a similar result.

I am a VIP Platinum owner who has only every purchased 160K directly from Wyndham to achieve that. In the past there were creative and allowable ways to achieve Status, but most avenues have been removed by Wyndham, except for the buy it directly from Wyndham method. Utilizing PIC is the most cost effective way to achieve that, but MOST of these boards would not agree on the cash outlay to achieve it. But if you have already spent prior to your arrival at TUG, then the opportunity cost to achieve it might be acceptable.

I am not planning on adding to my investment to reach the 1.4 Million level. I can't justify what I would get above what I already have for the nearly 400K additional points I would have to buy from Wyndham. I didn't like buying 160K from Wyndham, I am sure I would dislike buying 2.5 times that to achieve whatever the heck they are now calling the 1.4 million level.

So welcome @SNA27, but note that calling us parasites is not a friendly hello.

Sorry, that was not an apt metaphor. Poor choice especially when I do not know the audience and the audience does not know me! Believe me, I was being way too clinical and did not intend to give offense! Sorry if it came out that way.

 

[SNA27]

The OP - SNA27 is a new member and is still learning the ropes .
not the first time someone new to TUG - at first thought this was a trash talk “twitter “ forum
Some stay and learn and adopt the TUG concept - some leave after a few posts .

I hope SNA27 is able to stay and adds and gets value on TUG
I think the Wyndham forum is a good example of information sharing
(I have learned a lot as a non- owner of Wyndham )

******

I would like to see more of this positive information sharing with regard to Westgate in particular .
I think “we “ sometimes chase away new Westgate owners by the focus on the issues of
benefit removal by the developer upon resale . Westgate has a large ownership base .
but only limited information can be gleaned from threads on TUG .

Thank you for your measured response. I had no intention to talk trash. It was a genuine concern I have expressed to Wyndham at Owner meetings that they are not doing enough to protect my investment. I guess I must read about their evolutionary history to understand why. I credited this Website in my original post for clueing me in on PIC Plus contracts in July 2018. I have been an irregular visitor since but yesterday I registered to post my 'lament' Looks like I made a bad first impression with my poor choice of metaphor!:-(

I do want to learn more about how the Wyndham system works and if it's being gamed by some Expert operators who have so many listings in Airbnb. How Extra Holidays has availability when the same dates are not available to me? I do have many questions. I will search here for answers before I post those questions.