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Hernia surgery shouldn't cost more than $50,000. His bill was $116,000.

WinniWoman

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I will to answer as best I can as an everyday Canadian. In travelling in the USA, I have found most Americans have little knowledge of how our health system actually works, including Bernie Sanders. Most Canadians and Europeans view health care, like education, as a basic tenet of our national values. So yes, everyone is covered, whether they work or not. It is not considered a subsidy of some people by other people, but a basic human right. And yes we get to pick our own doctor and have an input into our treatment options.

And overall we pay significantly lower overall costs per capita than in the USA, with longer life expectancy and better quality of life in general, according to most indices that measure these things. There is a chart earlier in this thread that illustrates the costs and outcomes and National Geographic magazine had a good article a few months ago on the same issue that reinforced this point. Early preventative care is almost always less expensive than acute care.

First there is no monolithic "Canadian" health care system. In Canada, there is an overall federal health act, which sets minimum standards for each province in order to be eligible for federal health grants. Each province has its own health system. They have their differences, but they are all very similar because of the Canada Health Act. The system is not normally funded by sources such as property taxes or direct charges, but through our income tax system and out of overall federal and provincial general revenues.

The physicians and hospitals bill the province for their procedures, at rates set out in each provincial plan. This means they are paid quickly and do not have to worry about receivables nor bad debt. If a doctor or hospital participates in the government programme (and almost all do), they cannot do any direct billing to a client for that procedure. While our doctors make lower gross incomes generally than doctors in the USA, they also tend to have lower overhead costs and they also do not face the huge liability insurance premiums that most doctors in the USA pay. Also, drug costs are regulated in consultation with the drug companies, if they wish to sell their drug in Canada, and generic drugs are encouraged once the patent protection period is past.

Most of the funding for these plans comes from income taxes, and therefore general government revenue, although there are some differences by province. With the exception of the province of Quebec, we file a single combined federal/provincial income tax form each year. The federal tax rates are consistent across the country, but each province sets its own provincial portion of the tax rate. The federal government administers the whole tax system through the Canada Revenue Agency (our version of the IRS) and remits the provincial income taxes collected to each province.

Our combined general personal income tax rates are higher to compensate for the fact that they are the primary source to fund our medical system. However, there may also be direct health tax surcharges on the income tax returns, but it varies by province. For instance in Ontario, there is a direct health levy on employers when filing their corporate tax returns. It only applies where the payroll is in excess of $400,000 per year, so smaller businesses are exempt. Also, there is a personal health care surcharge on the personal income tax return in Ontario, that increases with income, but also has a low-level initial exemption.

Is the system perfect? No system is and ours is no exception. But overall it works extremely well. Waiting lists are a standard threat trotted out by the vested interests in the US health care industry trying to protect their significant profit margins. Don't believe everything you hear. Since we have access here to both our own media broadcasts, but also those from across the border, we see the often less-than-truthful stories and information provided by the US health care industry in its denigration of universal health care.

Are there waiting lists? Sometimes...but they vary by procedure and by province, depending upon priorities. But if you have a stroke or a heart attack or anything else that is immediately life-threatening, no one is putting you on a waiting list!! Waiting lists were more common a few years ago, but with an aging population we have made larger investments in health care to help eliminate or reduce such bottle necks where possible, but they do still exist.

Most waiting lists are for non-urgent, non-emergency care. If you need new knees, you don't just get them on demand. Cases are triaged, with those most in need going to the head of the line and the rest wait their turn. It is a necessary compromise to make the system work, but overall most of us not only accept it, but think it is generally fairer as well. Hope this helps give everyone a better understanding, although I am certainly no expert, except as I have experienced it myself and with friends and family.

Thanks for the information! I have never heard a Canadian complain about their health care system, unlike here in the USA! It seems like a much better system than ours for sure.
 

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I will to answer as best I can as an everyday Canadian. In travelling in the USA, I have found most Americans have little knowledge of how our health system actually works, including Bernie Sanders. Most Canadians and Europeans view health care, like education, as a basic tenet of our national values. So yes, everyone is covered, whether they work or not. It is not considered a subsidy of some people by other people, but a basic human right. And yes we get to pick our own doctor and have an input into our treatment options.

And overall we pay significantly lower overall costs per capita than in the USA, with longer life expectancy and better quality of life in general, according to most indices that measure these things. There is a chart earlier in this thread that illustrates the costs and outcomes and National Geographic magazine had a good article a few months ago on the same issue that reinforced this point. Early preventative care is almost always less expensive than acute care.

First there is no monolithic "Canadian" health care system. In Canada, there is an overall federal health act, which sets minimum standards for each province in order to be eligible for federal health grants. Each province has its own health system. They have their differences, but they are all very similar because of the Canada Health Act. The system is not normally funded by sources such as property taxes or direct charges, but through our income tax system and out of overall federal and provincial general revenues.

The physicians and hospitals bill the province for their procedures, at rates set out in each provincial plan. This means they are paid quickly and do not have to worry about receivables nor bad debt. If a doctor or hospital participates in the government programme (and almost all do), they cannot do any direct billing to a client for that procedure. While our doctors make lower gross incomes generally than doctors in the USA, they also tend to have lower overhead costs and they also do not face the huge liability insurance premiums that most doctors in the USA pay. Also, drug costs are regulated in consultation with the drug companies, if they wish to sell their drug in Canada, and generic drugs are encouraged once the patent protection period is past.

Most of the funding for these plans comes from income taxes, and therefore general government revenue, although there are some differences by province. With the exception of the province of Quebec, we file a single combined federal/provincial income tax form each year. The federal tax rates are consistent across the country, but each province sets its own provincial portion of the tax rate. The federal government administers the whole tax system through the Canada Revenue Agency (our version of the IRS) and remits the provincial income taxes collected to each province.

Our combined general personal income tax rates are higher to compensate for the fact that they are the primary source to fund our medical system. However, there may also be direct health tax surcharges on the income tax returns, but it varies by province. For instance in Ontario, there is a direct health levy on employers when filing their corporate tax returns. It only applies where the payroll is in excess of $400,000 per year, so smaller businesses are exempt. Also, there is a personal health care surcharge on the personal income tax return in Ontario, that increases with income, but also has a low-level initial exemption.

Is the system perfect? No system is and ours is no exception. But overall it works extremely well. Waiting lists are a standard threat trotted out by the vested interests in the US health care industry trying to protect their significant profit margins. Don't believe everything you hear. Since we have access here to both our own media broadcasts, but also those from across the border, we see the often less-than-truthful stories and information provided by the US health care industry in its denigration of universal health care.

Are there waiting lists? Sometimes...but they vary by procedure and by province, depending upon priorities. But if you have a stroke or a heart attack or anything else that is immediately life-threatening, no one is putting you on a waiting list!! Waiting lists were more common a few years ago, but with an aging population we have made larger investments in health care to help eliminate or reduce such bottle necks where possible, but they do still exist.

Most waiting lists are for non-urgent, non-emergency care. If you need new knees, you don't just get them on demand. Cases are triaged, with those most in need going to the head of the line and the rest wait their turn. It is a necessary compromise to make the system work, but overall most of us not only accept it, but think it is generally fairer as well. Hope this helps give everyone a better understanding, although I am certainly no expert, except as I have experienced it myself and with friends and family.

yes. there are differences in the Canadian healthcare system compared to the US
https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...71c78e-d4d6-11e9-9610-fb56c5522e1c_story.html
 

CanuckTravlr

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I think the original worry was that a national health organization would not have gone to the measures used (1.5million) to save a child. I have no idea whether the total would have been known in advance.

I guess it depends mainly upon the diagnosis, the prognosis and the procedures involved to effect a positive outcome. The dollar value is rarely a factor in the determination of how far the system will go if a positive outcome is possible. At least that is my personal experience here in Ontario.

It is always possible that there might be rare conditions that might not qualify for intervention, but those are generally determined by a medical review team. Generally if a positive outcome is possible they will try, IME. I have experienced this directly with both a brother with a very rare cancer and a niece requiring exceptional late-term intervention during pregnancy. The lengths the medical teams went to were extraordinary IMO.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue raised by easyrider, but in Canada, as in most national universal healthcare programmes, there is rarely a dollar limit on any qualified procedure, no lifetime maximum, nor any pre-existing condition limitations. You are simply covered, either from birth or from the time you become an eligible resident. No real fine print. I am not really familiar with all the nuances of the various US systems, so maybe I am missing the point?
And there's also a large health care industry in Puerto Vallarta that specializes in providing affordable health care services to Canadians who can't get those services in Canada.
 

moonstone

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{snipped}
All we ever hear about here in the USA is how Canadians have huge waiting lists for procedures.

As previously mentioned some elective or non-emergency surgeries can have long wait lists but that can also vary by geographical area in each province. Obviously if a person lives in/near a town with only 1 or 2 orthopedic surgeons or other specialists they are going to have a much longer wait than people living in towns cities with dozens of them. Many people in very rural areas must travel great distances to larger cities towns for regular or specialist Dr appointments. It seems like most of the new graduates want to work in big cities.
I can give you a few personal examples of Ontario wait times.

DH was complaining of chest pains, tightness & shortness of breath one day 2 years ago. Since we were driving and 5 mins from the closest hospital we went straight to Emerg. They didn't even ask his name but whipped him in and attached the heart monitors. It was determined he wasn't having heart issues but rather a gall bladder attack. This was about 11am and by 10:30 pm he had his bloodwork and scans done and was being wheeled into surgery to have his gall bladder removed. Our out of pocket expenses were $15.00 for the hospital parking lot fee.

About 5 yrs ago my neighbour/friend found a lump in her breast while showering one morning. She called her family Dr and was able to get in to see him that afternoon. He referred her to an Oncologist and she got an appointment for the next day. The oncologist ordered many tests and scans which were done right then, determined the lump was cancer and scheduled surgery (a lumpectomy) for the next morning! She is fine now. Her costs were less than $100 for a portion of the cost of a drug her benefits didn't fully cover.

I wrenched my knee in the middle of this past June. I went to a walk-in clinic where I saw a Dr and had x-rays and an ultra sound (to look for torn ligaments). I was referred to an Orthopedic surgeon who I saw 9 weeks later (it could have been faster but I wanted a specific Dr and he was on vacation for the first 2 weeks in August). He did my knee surgery in the middle of October. Again, our expenses were $15.00 for parking.

My BiL has been experiencing hip pain for months and in the spring we finally talked him into asking his family Dr to refer him to an Orthopedic surgeon. He had to wait 3 months for an appointment because there are now only 2 Orthopedic surgeons where he lives after 1 was killed in a road accident last winter. He had the appointment in September and after a review of the x-rays and MRIs it was determined he needs a new hip. The earliest date available was mid Feb but he will be down south so surgery is scheduled for the week after his return in the spring. If he lived near us he probably could have had the surgery well before Christmas.

Now some American horror stories.
An aunt who now lives in Visalia California fell and broke her hip 10 years ago, she was 63 yrs old. She was rushed to the hospital by ambulance where x-rays proved the damage. She waited in agony for 3 days for a supposedly top orthopedic surgeon to have time to replace her hip. After the surgery when the nurses and physio got her out of bed to weight bear and take a few steps it was found the surgeon didn't measure correctly and the repaired leg was now 2" shorter than the other leg! Now she has to wear shoes with one sole built up. The surgery cost my aunt and uncle many thousands of dollars and wasn't even done properly! They regret leaving Ontario.

Years ago I had to take DH to Emerg while we were on vacation in Sarasota FL. While we were waiting to be seen a young man came in dripping wet, wearing a bathing suit with a big towel wrapped around his arm which was saturated and driping with blood. He told the triage nurse that he had slipped in the shower and cut his arm open to the bone on the ceramic soap dish which broke when he tried to grab it. The nurse asked for his proof of insurance coverage which the guy hadn't brought. All he had was his drivers license. The nurse told him he couldnt be seen until he brought the necessary paperwork in. By this time he was looking pretty pale and was shivering. Another man in the waiting room yelled at the nurse saying the guy obviosly was cut pretty bad and might pass out on the drive back home, that he should be stitched up and bring the paperwork in afterwards. The nurse refused. The guy with the cut had to call a family member to go to his house and get the paperwork and bring it to the hospital so he could get stitched up. The nurse didn't even get him another towel or blanket while he waited! We were taken back into an examining room about 10 mins later, before the guy with the cut was seen, so I dont know what happened to him but I often think of him and the horrible treatment he got. That would never happen in Canada, up here it's save lives first, figure out the billing later.


~Diane
 

klpca

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DH was complaining of chest pains, tightness & shortness of breath one day 2 years ago. Since we were driving and 5 mins from the closest hospital we went straight to Emerg. They didn't even ask his name but whipped him in and attached the heart monitors. It was determined he wasn't having heart issues but rather a gall bladder attack. This was about 11am and by 10:30 pm he had his bloodwork and scans done and was being wheeled into surgery to have his gall bladder removed. Our out of pocket expenses were $15.00 for the hospital parking lot fee.

~Diane

Contrast with my husband's gallbladder surgery about 10 years ago. He was in terrible pain so I took him to urgent care. I asked if we should go to the ER and the told me that it was my call. They couldn't advise me. It was almost midnight so we stayed at the Urgent Care. When he was seen about 1:30am he was given a heavy duty pain killer (name escapes me), sent home, and told to call the doctor in the morning for an appointment. They were thinking kidney stone. At 11:00am we got into the doctor and got the correct diagnosis which was his gallbladder. Only now he also had a raging infection. He was hospitalized for 4 days while they treated the infection and then he had the surgery. Quite a contrast in treatment with your story. Don't remember the cost but we had a high deductible plan at that time so it was whatever our deductible was at the time, so not insignificant.
 

WinniWoman

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As previously mentioned some elective or non-emergency surgeries can have long wait lists but that can also vary by geographical area in each province. Obviously if a person lives in/near a town with only 1 or 2 orthopedic surgeons or other specialists they are going to have a much longer wait than people living in towns cities with dozens of them. Many people in very rural areas must travel great distances to larger cities towns for regular or specialist Dr appointments. It seems like most of the new graduates want to work in big cities.
I can give you a few personal examples of Ontario wait times.

DH was complaining of chest pains, tightness & shortness of breath one day 2 years ago. Since we were driving and 5 mins from the closest hospital we went straight to Emerg. They didn't even ask his name but whipped him in and attached the heart monitors. It was determined he wasn't having heart issues but rather a gall bladder attack. This was about 11am and by 10:30 pm he had his bloodwork and scans done and was being wheeled into surgery to have his gall bladder removed. Our out of pocket expenses were $15.00 for the hospital parking lot fee.

About 5 yrs ago my neighbour/friend found a lump in her breast while showering one morning. She called her family Dr and was able to get in to see him that afternoon. He referred her to an Oncologist and she got an appointment for the next day. The oncologist ordered many tests and scans which were done right then, determined the lump was cancer and scheduled surgery (a lumpectomy) for the next morning! She is fine now. Her costs were less than $100 for a portion of the cost of a drug her benefits didn't fully cover.

I wrenched my knee in the middle of this past June. I went to a walk-in clinic where I saw a Dr and had x-rays and an ultra sound (to look for torn ligaments). I was referred to an Orthopedic surgeon who I saw 9 weeks later (it could have been faster but I wanted a specific Dr and he was on vacation for the first 2 weeks in August). He did my knee surgery in the middle of October. Again, our expenses were $15.00 for parking.

My BiL has been experiencing hip pain for months and in the spring we finally talked him into asking his family Dr to refer him to an Orthopedic surgeon. He had to wait 3 months for an appointment because there are now only 2 Orthopedic surgeons where he lives after 1 was killed in a road accident last winter. He had the appointment in September and after a review of the x-rays and MRIs it was determined he needs a new hip. The earliest date available was mid Feb but he will be down south so surgery is scheduled for the week after his return in the spring. If he lived near us he probably could have had the surgery well before Christmas.

Now some American horror stories.
An aunt who now lives in Visalia California fell and broke her hip 10 years ago, she was 63 yrs old. She was rushed to the hospital by ambulance where x-rays proved the damage. She waited in agony for 3 days for a supposedly top orthopedic surgeon to have time to replace her hip. After the surgery when the nurses and physio got her out of bed to weight bear and take a few steps it was found the surgeon didn't measure correctly and the repaired leg was now 2" shorter than the other leg! Now she has to wear shoes with one sole built up. The surgery cost my aunt and uncle many thousands of dollars and wasn't even done properly! They regret leaving Ontario.

Years ago I had to take DH to Emerg while we were on vacation in Sarasota FL. While we were waiting to be seen a young man came in dripping wet, wearing a bathing suit with a big towel wrapped around his arm which was saturated and driping with blood. He told the triage nurse that he had slipped in the shower and cut his arm open to the bone on the ceramic soap dish which broke when he tried to grab it. The nurse asked for his proof of insurance coverage which the guy hadn't brought. All he had was his drivers license. The nurse told him he couldnt be seen until he brought the necessary paperwork in. By this time he was looking pretty pale and was shivering. Another man in the waiting room yelled at the nurse saying the guy obviosly was cut pretty bad and might pass out on the drive back home, that he should be stitched up and bring the paperwork in afterwards. The nurse refused. The guy with the cut had to call a family member to go to his house and get the paperwork and bring it to the hospital so he could get stitched up. The nurse didn't even get him another towel or blanket while he waited! We were taken back into an examining room about 10 mins later, before the guy with the cut was seen, so I dont know what happened to him but I often think of him and the horrible treatment he got. That would never happen in Canada, up here it's save lives first, figure out the billing later.


~Diane

Thanks for this. What happens if you are in another country in terms of medical coverage? Do you just take out travel insurance for it?
 

WinniWoman

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Contrast with my husband's gallbladder surgery about 10 years ago. He was in terrible pain so I took him to urgent care. I asked if we should go to the ER and the told me that it was my call. They couldn't advise me. It was almost midnight so we stayed at the Urgent Care. When he was seen about 1:30am he was given a heavy duty pain killer (name escapes me), sent home, and told to call the doctor in the morning for an appointment. They were thinking kidney stone. At 11:00am we got into the doctor and got the correct diagnosis which was his gallbladder. Only now he also had a raging infection. He was hospitalized for 4 days while they treated the infection and then he had the surgery. Quite a contrast in treatment with your story. Don't remember the cost but we had a high deductible plan at that time so it was whatever our deductible was at the time, so not insignificant.

Wow! That could have gone very badly! Having a gallbladder attack and not diagnosed correctly at the Urgent Care Center! Ugh!
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Contrast with my husband's gallbladder surgery about 10 years ago. He was in terrible pain so I took him to urgent care. I asked if we should go to the ER and the told me that it was my call. They couldn't advise me. It was almost midnight so we stayed at the Urgent Care. When he was seen about 1:30am he was given a heavy duty pain killer (name escapes me), sent home, and told to call the doctor in the morning for an appointment. They were thinking kidney stone. At 11:00am we got into the doctor and got the correct diagnosis which was his gallbladder. Only now he also had a raging infection. He was hospitalized for 4 days while they treated the infection and then he had the surgery. Quite a contrast in treatment with your story. Don't remember the cost but we had a high deductible plan at that time so it was whatever our deductible was at the time, so not insignificant.
My story.

I'm on Medicare. I use a Premera-Blues Cross HMO that costs me about $60 extra per month after paying my Medicare.

I had an attack one Saturday morning. DW took me to the Premera urgent care about five miles from our house. I was in too see a doctor in about an hour. He quickly narrowed it down to either gall stone or kidney stone. blood urine analysis confirmed kidney stone. They sent me to the emergency room at a local hospital, where they gave me painkiller, did a CAT scan to check stone size and location. and waited. In a couple of hours the stone made it to my bladder, and they sent me home.

The bill came, and the total charges listed by the hospital was over $5000. All is was responsible for was my quite manageable copay.

The system worked for me. I know it doesn't work so well for many others. It was certainly more affordable having this occur under Medicare than it would have been before I switched to Medicare.
 

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Thanks for this. What happens if you are in another country in terms of medical coverage? Do you just take out travel insurance for it?

Savvy Canadian travellers always buy travel insurance (or have a credit card with good coverage). Having said that, I believe our healthcare system will pay for an emergency medical procedure when a Canadian needs one. The catch is that the system only covers up to the cost of what the procedures would have been in Canada. Perhaps there’s another More knowledgeable Canadian tugger why can clarify as I rely on my work’s extended plan when travelling.
 

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Wow! That could have gone very badly! Having a gallbladder attack and not diagnosed correctly at the Urgent Care Center! Ugh!
Needless to say we are no longer affiliated with that provider, Scripps Clinic. Their billing errors are legendary among my friends and neighbors. They used to be awesome - they were our provider from 1984 - 2010. We just couldn't put up with their errors any more. A friend finally refused to pay any more invoices (because they had already been paid yet Scripps continued to bill). She said that they didn't need to worry about their credit scores any more and told Scripps that they were done paying. They they left too.

I forgot about this gem: For the past few years, I randomly receive a letter reminding me of an upcoming appointment with a doctor that I have never seen. I am in the dark about this one. The first year I called to let them know but since we aren't patients, they couldn't help me - no record to look up. I figured that it was their problem then. Yet I continue to get these letters, lol. I wonder who gets the bill.
 

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And there's also a large health care industry in Puerto Vallarta that specializes in providing affordable health care services to Canadians who can't get those services in Canada.

My dentist is in Bucerias. His brother is a doctor at the hospital next door to the dental clinic. In the days before the clinic and hospital both of these people had offices near the church in Bucerias. Every time I visit my dentist his office is full of Americans and Canadians. The hospital is the same and I hear most people going to the hospital are getting cosmetic surgery.

Bill
 
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Savvy Canadian travellers always buy travel insurance (or have a credit card with good coverage). Having said that, I believe our healthcare system will pay for an emergency medical procedure when a Canadian needs one. The catch is that the system only covers up to the cost of what the procedures would have been in Canada. Perhaps there’s another More knowledgeable Canadian tugger why can clarify as I rely on my work’s extended plan when travelling.

When travelling outside Canada most Canadians either have a supplemental health plan, typically through an employer, that covers things that aren't covered by the provincial health plan, or you purchase an individual annual or specific trip plan for emergency coverage while outside the country. Employer or individual supplemental health care plans can also cover dental care, which is not normally covered under our provincial health care plans, with a few exceptions.

Most emergency procedures are covered by the provincial health care plan when travelling outside Canada, however they may not cover the full costs if they are significantly more than what it would cost for the procedure in Canada, as Chrispee points out. Which is why most of us take out medical travel insurance if we don't have existing private supplemental coverage. And elective surgery is never covered under any plan, either the provincial plans or supplemental health plans. That is not their purpose.
 

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yes. there are differences in the Canadian healthcare system compared to the US
https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...71c78e-d4d6-11e9-9610-fb56c5522e1c_story.html

Good article, although it refers to the Alberta health care plan, while my experience is primarily with Ontario. One of the reasons Alberta is struggling with keeping up with its rising health care costs, is it is the only province without a provincial retail sales tax. In the past, the province could rely on the huge royalty payments from the petroleum industry to offset that, but that is no longer the case.

I should point out that retail sales taxes are generally higher in Canada than in the USA and are another significant source of funds at both the federal and provincial level to help cover the costs of our health system. The federal sales tax (GST) of 5% applies to the purchase of almost all goods and services across the country. On top of that, with the exception of Alberta and the three territories, there are also provincial retail sales taxes. The combined federal and provincial sales taxes range from 11% to 15%, depending upon the province.
 

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When travelling outside Canada most Canadians either have a supplemental health plan, typically through an employer, that covers things that aren't covered by the provincial health plan, or you purchase an individual annual or specific trip plan for emergency coverage while outside the country. Employer or individual supplemental health care plans can also cover dental care, which is not normally covered under our provincial health care plans, with a few exceptions.

Most emergency procedures are covered by the provincial health care plan when travelling outside Canada, however they may not cover the full costs if they are significantly more than what it would cost for the procedure in Canada, as Chrispee points out. Which is why most of us take out medical travel insurance if we don't have existing private supplemental coverage. And elective surgery is never covered under any plan, either the provincial plans or supplemental health plans. That is not their purpose.


Can you give us an idea of what a typical supplemental plan in Canada would cost let's say for an individual, a couple and a family? And- for the employer ones- does the employer pay the full cost or do the employees pay towards the premium?
 

Chrispee

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Can you give us an idea of what a typical supplemental plan in Canada would cost let's say for an individual, a couple and a family? And- for the employer ones- does the employer pay the full cost or do the employees pay towards the premium?

The extended health plan cost split at my workplace is 40% employee and 60% employer. My coverage is for a family of three and I pay $260 per month and have no deductible.

to be clear, this is extended health plan that covers: prescriptions, dental, orthodontist(partial), physiotherapy, chiropractic, registered massage therapy, naturopath, glasses, orthotics, ambulance rides, private hospital room, travel insurance etc.
 

moonstone

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Can you give us an idea of what a typical supplemental plan in Canada would cost let's say for an individual, a couple and a family? And- for the employer ones- does the employer pay the full cost or do the employees pay towards the premium?

The cost varies greatly depending on the age of the travellers, any health problems or pre-existing conditions, length of stay and the travel destination in some cases (more risk). We are lucky in that DH's employee pension benefits cover travel up to 90 days with very good coverage. When we spend the winter in Belize we usually need to add another few days or a week which costs us about $100. When DH was working one of his deductions was for benefits, but it was a minimal cost (<$100./mo). For people without travel coverage in their benefits Blue Cross and CAA have good rates and good travel policies.

My parents used to drive to FL in their motorhome for the winter and even though Dad had travel benefits with his employee pension he always added an extra policy with fantastic benefits which cost him about $2000 Cndn for 3-4 mos. Since they were in their late 70's & early 80's he figured it was money well spent. During their last winter in FL my mom, who was in the early stages of dementia and forgetting to take her medications, developed congestive heart failure. Dad took her to Emerg at the local hospital and called his extra insurance people. After seeing Mom's test results and suggested treatments, they decided it would be cheaper to fly her home to our local hospital than pay for her stay and treatment in FL. Within 8 hrs of their decision Mom was being loaded onto a Lear Jet that had arrived from Toronto with a Dr and nurse on board. She was flown to the regional airport near us and a waiting ambulance transported her to our hospital where I was waiting. The insce co had also told my dad to arrange for somebody to fly down to FL to accompany him on the drive home at their expense. DH (who had just retired) got on a flight the next morning, picked up a rental car at the Orlando airport and drove the 90 mins to the RV resort to help Dad pack up. They dropped the rental car off and headed home the next day. It is a good job DH went down as dad was so upset and frazzled he couldn't drive well, so DH did nearly all the driving. The insce co told dad to keep all his travel expense receipts (gas, meals...) for the trip home (even though he would have been driving home 2-3 weeks later anyways) and submit them along with DH's flight and rental car cost. Absolutely all the costs were reimbursed very quickly. We never saw the cost for Mom's trip home but the hospital bill was in excess of $100K for less than a 72 hr stay.


~Diane
 

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Can you give us an idea of what a typical supplemental plan in Canada would cost let's say for an individual, a couple and a family? And- for the employer ones- does the employer pay the full cost or do the employees pay towards the premium?

The extended health plan cost split at my workplace is 40% employee and 60% employer. My coverage is for a family of three and I pay $260 per month and have no deductible.

to be clear, this is extended health plan that covers: prescriptions, dental, orthodontist(partial), physiotherapy, chiropractic, registered massage therapy, naturopath, glasses, orthotics, ambulance rides, private hospital room, travel insurance etc.

With most employer-sponsored plans, the employer covers anywhere from 50% to 100% of the premiums. These are private plans negotiated by the employer with individual insurers. The benefits, deductibles, co-insurance amounts, annual and/or lifetime limits and actual areas covered can vary widely, based on what the employer wishes to offer. These private supplemental plans cannot cover anything covered under the appropriate provincial health plan, only those things not covered by the public plan.

Most employer-sponsored plans also provide life insurance, dependent life and long-term disability benefits. They sometimes also provide short-term disability and/or critical illness benefits. Obviously the premiums can vary widely depending upon the ages of the employees, the coverage levels, deductibles, etc.

@Chrispee, would you please confirm that your $260 monthly premium is just for the health related benefits (e.g. drugs, dental, vision, paramedical, travel, etc.) and that it does not include life, LTD or other benefits?

With respect to individual travel medical plans, my wife and I as CAA members could get an annual plan that covers us for any trips we take outside Canada (maximum 30 days) for about $600 per year (combined for the two of us), with no limit on the number of trips. We are in our mid-to-late 60s. The deductible is $500 USD per claim and there is coverage of up to $5 million per insured. We can top-up the days relatively inexpensively for any trips in excess of 30 days, at any time. If we return to Canada at any time within the 30 days and then leave again, the 30-day limit starts over again.
 
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Chrispee

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@Chrispee, would you please confirm that your $260 monthly premium is just for the health related benefits (e.g. drugs, dental, vision, paramedical, travel, etc.) and that it does not include life, LTD or other benefits?

Correct. Critical Illness and Life Insurance are available but must be purchased by the individual at my workplace. I believe that there’s a tax related reason but am not sure as I do not participate in those two plans.
 

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......... I would love to hear from some our tuggers with national healthcare if they have ever heard of limits on care due to expense.

Canuck Travlr posted while I was typing - and has a great informative posts
as did others .
I will add my 2 cents .

LOL - pennies are no longer used in Canada in cash transactions / so this is more of a rounding up / down to the nearest 5 cents post .

******
Healthcare in Canada is provincial administered program not national . The national component is a percentage of the funding needed to operate . The 1984 Canada Healthcare Act stipulated that if a province allows additional separate billing on procedures also paid for by the province ( you or your insurance company have to pay the doctor or hospital some kind of “co -payment / deductible etc .) then the province gets $0 in federal transfer payments for healthcare . VOILA -a single payer system . (since no province can afford the loss of revenue from the federal transfer payments)

A USA parallel is the 1956 Congress authorized - Interstate Highway Trust Fund Act. The FREE highway system was and is partially built with federally collected fuel tax dollars that are transferred to states with stipulations .
In 1984 Congress added a stipulation that - states that had a drinking age below 21 - could not receive funds from the IHTF . Wyoming was the last holdout - until 1988.

SO THE USA HAS HAD “ SOCIALIST HIGHWAY HEALTHCARE -FOR OVER 60 YEARS - that has benefited everyone by lowering the cost of travel and the cost of moving products via trucks .

****

In Canada - there is no lifetime cap on individual usage for citizens and legal permanent residents .

Each province determines specifics .Certain innovative procedures , that are recent in invention can occasional be deemed experimental in one province , while recently approved for use in another . These situations generally sort out , but occasionally get media coverage .
 
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Canuck Travlr posted while I was typing - and has a great informative posts
as did others .
I will add my 2 cents .

LOL - pennies are no longer used in Canada in cash transactions / so this is more of a rounding up / down to the nearest 5 cents post .

******
Healthcare in Canada is provincial administered program not national . The national component is a percentage of the funding needed to operate . The 1984 Canada Healthcare Act stipulated that if a province allows additional separate billing on procedures also paid for by the province ( you or your insurance company have to pay the doctor or hospital some kind of “co -payment / deductible etc .) then the province gets $0 in federal transfer payments for healthcare . VOILA -a single payer system . (since no province can afford the loss of revenue from the federal transfer payments)

A USA parallel is the 1956 Congress authorized - Interstate Highway Trust Fund Act. The FREE highway system was and is partially built with federally collected fuel tax dollars that are transferred to states with stipulations .
In 1984 Congress added a stipulation that - states that had a drinking age below 21 - could not receive funds from the IHTF . Wyoming was the last holdout - until 1988.

SO THE USA HAS HAD “ SOCIALIST HIGHWAY HEALTHCARE -FOR OVER 60 YEARS - that has benefited everyone by lowering the cost of travel and the cost of moving products via trucks .

In Canada - there is no lifetime cap on individual usage for citizens and legal permanent residents .

Each province determines specifics .Certain innovative procedures , that are recent in invention can occasional be deemed experimental in one province , while recently approved for use in another . These situations generally sort out , but occasionally get media coverage .


I didn't realize the US interstate highway is a "socialist system" but I get the analogy. Increasingly one have to pay extra tolls to avoid traffic congestion - some motorists are more equal !

I also didn't realize pennies are no longer used in Canada, I wish they would eliminate pennies in the US
 
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CanuckTravlr

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I didn't realize the US interstate highway is a "socialist system" but I get the analogy. Increasingly one have to pay extra tolls to avoid traffic congestion - some motorists are more equal !

I also didn't realize pennies are no longer used in Canada, I wish they would eliminate pennies in the US

Definitely off-topic, but yes we no longer use pennies. If paying by debit or credit, you pay the exact amount, but if paying by cash then the cents are rounded to the nearest 0 or 5 cents. So if it comes out to 1 or 2 cents, or 6 or 7 cents, then it rounds down to the nearest 0 or 5, if it is 3 or 4 cents, or 8 or 9 cents, then it rounds up to the nearest 5 or 0 (e.g. 22 cents becomes 20 cents and 23 cents becomes 25 cents, while 27 cents becomes 25 cents and 28 cents becomes 30 cents).

Applying that logic to T-Dot's "2-cents worth" commentary above, it becomes zero!! So it is worth nothing...just kidding...LOL!! :p:p

Now if only we were talking about medical procedures that could be measured in cents, instead of thousands of dollars, then maybe it would all make more "sense"!! :D
 
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Conan

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It was certainly more affordable having this occur under Medicare than it would have been before I switched to Medicare.

I think that's the key takeaway from your story.

Medicare coupled with an Advantage supplement is working well for us too.

Of course we paid a lifetime of Medicare taxes to qualify for it (currently 2.9% of wages when you count the employer share). And for the two of us, our 2020 Medicare premiums will be $3,468 per year, not counting IRMAA tax, plus about $5,000 per year for our supplement.

Meanwhile our adult daughter is paying her employer more than that to upgrade her coverage which still only gets her a quite terrible Aetna "Select" plan. Under Aetna Select, for example, her primary care doctor serves as her gatekeeper. Before she can see anybody but him (orthopedist, therapist, x-ray, etc.), she needs first to see him to request a referral which he sometimes gives and sometimes denies.

Hence my tongue-in-cheek comment at the top of this thread:
"Medicare For All." But what if that leads to higher income taxes?
 
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Definitely off-topic, but yes we no longer use pennies. If paying by debit or credit, you pay the exact amount, but if paying by cash then the cents are rounded to the nearest 0 or 5 cents. So if it comes out to 1 or 2 cents, or 6 or 7 cents, then it rounds down to the nearest 0 or 5, if it is 3 or 4 cents, or 8 or 9 cents, then it rounds up to the nearest 5 or 0 (e.g. 22 cents becomes 20 cents and 23 cents becomes 25 cents, while 27 cents becomes 25 cents and 28 cents becomes 30 cents).

Applying that logic to T-Dot's "2-cents worth" commentary above, it becomes zero!! So it is worth nothing...just kidding...LOL!! :p:p

Now if only we were talking about medical procedures that could be measured in cents, instead of thousands of dollars, then maybe it would all make more "sense"!! :D


good pun :p
for years, ..... decades, it cost a lot more to make US pennies than they're worth and it's a hassle when paying cash.
It seems so easy to discontinue making the 'cents' and save money and help retailers but the government doesn't take my recommendations
 

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good pun :p
for years, ..... decades, it cost a lot more to make US pennies than they're worth...

That is why Canada discontinued making them and withdrew them from circulation .
I am still finding them in odd spots around the house / but no one seems to miss them .

*******
Of course the Brits once had farthings and ha’ pennies .

- and currently a pretty good national healthcare system .
 
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