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Panic in the Sky: Delta flight from Atlanta plunges nearly 30,000 feet

rickandcindy23

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When I fly, I am almost always sitting next to the calmest guy on the plane, which is Rick, of course. He was a Denver firefighter for 40 years, and he is truly the most composed person. He takes everything in stride, so if it was us on a plane that dropped 10,000 feet, he would be helping other people as much as possible, and he would constantly reassure them it would be alright.

Since he retired, we have witnessed one severe traffic accident and one minor one, both had panicked people trapped inside of their cars, and Rick was there to do what he did as an EMT and firefighter, until help arrived. One was on Maui, which somehow you do not expect to happen on Maui. So calm and collected, I envy his ability to do that. But I have told different people, including my sister who was with us for the Maui accident, that I could be laying on the road with my legs cut off, and he would say, "Everything is fine, you are doing just fine, just try to think good thoughts until the ambulance gets here." :)
 
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isisdave

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This doesn't sound like a "plunge" -- 30,000 feet in 7 minutes. This was a controlled emergency descent, probably because of an actual or erroneous detection of cabin pressure loss.

DW experienced one of these years ago over the Atlantic on the way to London. She remembers thinking "at least we won't hit any buildings ...."
 

klpca

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This doesn't sound like a "plunge" -- 30,000 feet in 7 minutes. This was a controlled emergency descent, probably because of an actual or erroneous detection of cabin pressure loss.

DW experienced one of these years ago over the Atlantic on the way to London. She remembers thinking "at least we won't hit any buildings ...."
Yeah, definitely a misleading title by the media. But hey, we all clicked on it so mission accomplished!
 

taterhed

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For the record:

I don't have specific info on this incident in hand, but this is clearly a 'high-dive.' Delta confirmed it. A 'high dive' is a rapid (safe) descent to 10,000 feet--an altitude where almost everyone can breath safely and without undue stress. It's not a normal maneuver and unless you've experienced it first hand, you have no idea what it's like--unless you're had some other types of flying.

When airliners are in cruise (at altitude, say 39,000 feet), if the cabin pressure can't be maintained (leaky hose, broken duct etc...) the aircraft MUST descend to an altitude that will support all the passengers on board easily. Why did I say this? Old, young, infant, impaired folks may not be able to tolerate exposure to high altitudes/low oxygen for any significant period of time. Additionally, a rapid change in pressure (explosive or just 'rapid') is also bad. Finally, the maximum altitude that the cabin is exposed to is what determines the severity of the situation and the need for medical attention.

So?

If you rapidly descend (safe but maybe uncomfortable), you may minimize the exposure and prevent the oxygen masks from dropping and avoid the need to have medical care/examination/distress for ANY of the passengers. By all accounts, the Delta crew did a fantastic job and avoided an unsafe situation with professionalism and calm. Note the flight attendant calmly walking through the cabin helping folks and keeping them safe. Nice job Delta.


Funny, people laugh, joke, talk, watch TV, listen to music and generally IGNORE the safety briefs.
Not funny, when the oxygen masks drop from the ceiling, people panic and realize 'life is fragile.'

Maybe we should pay more attention?
 

davidvel

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Another fake headline. Hardly a "plunge", it was a controlled descent at about 5000 fpm. Typical decent rates are 2,000-3,000 fpm as a commercial plane comes out of cruising altitude to land. But some can do so comfortably upwards of 4,000 fpm.

An intentional, fully controlled steep descent that would have rattled the nerves, but "plunge" is just dramatic bs.

The real scary part was the deployment of oxygen masks.
 

Talent312

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My question:
ATL to FLL = 581 air miles. ATL to TPA = 406 air miles (175 miles less).
If they had reached a safe altitude, was the diversion really necessary?

.
 

taterhed

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It's based on the position at the time the emergency was declared, the closest suitable airfield (medical, space, accommodation for a wide body --764 I think)
Captain's authority.

They made the conservative decision.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Re 10,000 feet. I know from personal experience (driving to the top of Mauna Kea), my "upper respiratory limit" right now is about 14,000 feet elevation. On Mauna Kea, when we are at the upper most bank of telescopes, I cannot do anything that requires any muscular exertion. Just getting out of the car and walking 25 yards leaves me completely exhausted, gives me a splitting headache, and requires that I get sedentary for about 15 minutes. I'm fine if I don't move around, but as soon as I start moving oxygen deprivation sets.

Last time we were at Mauna Kea, simply descending to next lower bank of scopes made a huge difference. Even though the elevation difference is only a few hundred feet, at that level I could move around.
 

davidvel

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My question:
ATL to FLL = 581 air miles. ATL to TPA = 406 air miles (175 miles less).
If they had reached a safe altitude, was the diversion really necessary?

.
Commercial planes don't just fly around at 10,000 feet. And as taterhed notes, in an emergency you get to the closest airport you can that can accomodate. I wish Alaska Air had done this with flight 261 instead of trying to fix the plane in the air, bypassing LAX and diving into the Pacific.
 

AJCts411

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changing 20,000 ft of altitude in 7 minutes sounds relaxed but it is not. thats a rate of about 3000 feet per minute. A 737 takes off at 1800 Ft/min. imagine double that rate. Was the diversion necessary...yes. The pilots, put safety over inconvenience first. Well done.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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My question:
ATL to FLL = 581 air miles. ATL to TPA = 406 air miles (175 miles less).
If they had reached a safe altitude, was the diversion really necessary?

.

Commercial planes don't just fly around at 10,000 feet. And as taterhed notes, in an emergency you get to the closest airport you can that can accomodate. I wish Alaska Air had done this with flight 261 instead of trying to fix the plane in the air, bypassing LAX and diving into the Pacific.

In addition to all that has been said about the safety issues .....

Planes burn more fuel at 10k feet - thicker air means more atmospheric drag. Planes are fueled to carry only the amount of fuel needed to reach the next fueling point (typically the next major airport), plus a safety reserve. So if the plane continued to fly at 10k feet, it probably would have to stop for refueling anyway before it reached it's destination.

Note: when a plane's route takes it over an area that does not have intermediate fueling locations, the required fuel reserve is larger. So if you are flying to Hawaii and the plane has to descend to 10,000 feet, the fuel reserve is large enough to accommodate that contingency.
 

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In addition to all that has been said about the safety issues .....

Planes burn more fuel at 10k feet - thicker air means more atmospheric drag. Planes are fueled to carry only the amount of fuel needed to reach the next fueling point (typically the next major airport), plus a safety reserve. So if the plane continued to fly at 10k feet, it probably would have to stop for refueling anyway before it reached it's destination.

Note: when a plane's route takes it over an area that does not have intermediate fueling locations, the required fuel reserve is larger. So if you are flying to Hawaii and the plane has to descend to 10,000 feet, the fuel reserve is large enough to accommodate that contingency.

There's a word for what you're describing: ETOPS stands for Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards, a rule which permits twin engine aircrafts to fly routes which, at some point, is more than 60 minutes flying time away from the nearest airport suitable for emergency landing.

The routing, altitudes and fuel load etc... are all based on divert/landing options, oxygen supply and weather etc...with one-engine out, with loss of cabin pressure etc...

It's a complex and rapidly changing flight-planning requirement that drives almost all over-water operations these days.

The Florida decision to divert was, I'm convinced, largely based on the 'panic' in the passenger cabin. It was also a conservative and appropriate decision IMHO.


And you thought the pilots were just watching Netflix up front?




180_minute_HNL.jpg
 

Talent312

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And you thought the pilots were just watching Netflix up front?

Prolly... Amazon Prime.
And the ATC peep were playing pong on their radar screens.
McCroskey: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue."
 

Laurie

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The headline alone is enough to make me rethink ever flying again; I didn't even want to open the article for details. Unfortunately, unlike Greta Thunberg, I don't think I could sail across the ocean.
 

davidvel

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The headline alone is enough to make me rethink ever flying again; I didn't even want to open the article for details. Unfortunately, unlike Greta Thunberg, I don't think I could sail across the ocean.
You should read the article, where you would learn that the plane never plunged at all. The headline was fake, as most are in some respect.

Oddly (ironically?), headlines are fake to get you click. But this one got you not to click.
 
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