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Is my timeshare now worth zero or less than zero?

vail

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I own a Marriott Timeshare, I will not say which one as this is a generic question, in a well known area for a summer--peak season--week.

The maintenance fees are now higher than what I could rent the week for and that is if I am lucky enough to get to choose the week I want.

So my question is even though I have enjoyed the timeshare for many years, and really have no plans to sell it, is the week now actually worth nothing or less than nothing?
 

LannyPC

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The maintenance fees are now higher than what I could rent the week for and that is if I am lucky enough to get to choose the week I want..........is the week now actually worth nothing or less than nothing?

That's usually an indicator that your TS is worth about zero dollars.

You can try listing it on E-Bay and see what kind of bids it garners. That could be an indicator of what your TS is worth on the resale market.
 

vail

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That's usually an indicator that your TS is worth about zero dollars.

You can try listing it on E-Bay and see what kind of bids it garners. That could be an indicator of what your TS is worth on the resale market.

Yet the week is enrolled and receives 2500 points a year.
At the going rate of over $10 a point does that mean it is worth $25,000?
Of course that figure seems like lunacy.
That brings up an entirely different question--why people purchase points to stay in existing timeshares that could probably be rented without having to purchase points?
 

DannyTS

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Yet the week is enrolled and receives 2500 points a year.
At the going rate of over $10 a point does that mean it is worth $25,000?
Of course that figure seems like lunacy.
That brings up an entirely different question--why people purchase points to stay in existing timeshares that could probably be rented without having to purchase points?
Because the person buying from you cannot enroll the week that value is zero
 

Passepartout

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That brings up an entirely different question--why people purchase points to stay in existing timeshares that could probably be rented without having to purchase points?
This is a point I try to make when people come to TUG with the 'What timeshare should I buy' question. In nearly every case they say they want to 'trade around', not understanding the economics involved in that. I tell them to either buy a pure point system with no 'home resort', or not buy any timeshare and simply rent. No buy-in cost, no annual fees, no sweating the exit plan.

Jim
 

vacationtime1

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The maintenance fees are now higher than what I could rent the week for and that is if I am lucky enough to get to choose the week I want.

So my question is even though I have enjoyed the timeshare for many years, and really have no plans to sell it, is the week now actually worth nothing or less than nothing?

Yet the week is enrolled and receives 2500 points a year. . . .

You have two distinct things you can rent -- a reserved week or your elected points.

You state that the MF's are higher than the potential rental value for a reserved week. However, you could also rent your elected points for about $1,600 (~$0.64/pp), so if your MF's are less than that amount, there is still value in renting them.

Otherwise, I agree with Steven; the timeshare may have value to you, but no value to anyone else.
 

Quilter

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Be grateful your week is enrolled.

I own one of these weeks. It's a Platinum Manor Club Sequel. 2019 m/f's were $1418 which is $.59/point. I looked at Redweek and the asking price for rentals is just above the m/f. Factor in ad price and time/trouble and you have a break even situation.

However, if I take the 2375 points for this week and reserve high demand days at a high demand resort I can now "own" a week or part of one that cost me less than what it rents for on Redweek. For example, I looked at 6 nights at one of these high demand resorts and it would cost me $1433 for something that rents for $1800. Isn't that a 25% rate of return?
 
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CalGalTraveler

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MVC newbie (Vistana, HGV owner) trying to learn about the system.

Just to confirm. If you own an enrolled week (not DC points) those points can also be rented out? If so, I like the ability to avoid being a landlord and getting cash fast via points sale.

Wish we had this feature with Vistana and HGVC (renting points forbidden). It seems that this is a smart way for MVC to avoid a deluge of deedbacks and defaults when the value of the unit reaches zero or negative territory. I also like how you can rent points to augment so you could potentially stay at another higher priced property for less than renting and without the headache of owning another TS. As stated previously, high value to owner but not to resale buyer who won't have enrollment privileges.
 
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Ralph Sir Edward

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MVC newbie (Vistana, HGV owner) trying to learn about the system.

Just to confirm. If you own an enrolled week (not DC points) those points can also be rented out? If so, I like the ability to avoid being a landlord and getting cash fast via points sale.

Wish we had this feature with Vistana and HGVC (renting points forbidden). It seems that this is a smart way for MVC to avoid a deluge of deedbacks and defaults when the value of the unit reaches zero or negative territory. I also like how you can rent points to augment so you could potentially stay at another higher priced property for less than renting and without the headache of owning another TS. As stated previously, high value to owner but not to resale buyer who won't have enrollment privileges.

Yes and no. AFAIK the enrolled points can be rented out. On the other hand, you can't buy a week and just enroll it. You can only enroll it if you purchase points (and the week) through Marriott. . . (Say 20K+ or more, up front. . . )
 
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SueDonJ

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MVC newbie (Vistana, HGV owner) trying to learn about the system.

Just to confirm. If you own an enrolled week (not DC points) those points can also be rented out? If so, I like the ability to avoid being a landlord and getting cash fast via points sale.

Wish we had this feature with Vistana and HGVC (renting points forbidden). It seems that this is a smart way for MVC to avoid a deluge of deedbacks and defaults when the value of the unit reaches zero or negative territory. I also like how you can rent points to augment so you could potentially stay at another higher priced property for less than renting and without the headache of owning another TS. As stated previously, high value to owner but not to resale buyer who won't have enrollment privileges.

Yep, if you own enrolled Weeks you can elect to convert them to DC Points and then rent out either the points as points, or, any reservations that you make with the points. Rented points are transferred from your account into the account of the renter so s/he gains total control over them. Rented reservations booked with DC Points work the same as rented reservations booked in the Weeks system, the owner retains control of the res and simply has to notify Marriott to add the renter/guest name.
 

SueDonJ

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@vail, the first step I'd take if I wanted to get rid of a Week is to contact Resales Operations and ask if they'll list it. There's no guarantee that they'll take it, no guarantee that they'll take today what they may have refused yesterday, but if they do it may be possible to get more of a return from them than on any of the external resale markets.

Contact Information: Toll-free 866-682-4547 or Direct 407-641-1801; Email resale.operations@VacationClub.com

******************

Moderator Note: I updated the Weeks FAQ to include this info. If anyone has current direct contact info/the link for purchasing direct resales (as stand-alones if they're available or as components of a Weeks/Points hybrid package,) please let me know and I'll update that, too. Thanks!
 
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Big Matt

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I would suggest that it is probably worth quite a bit more than zero to you if you use it correctly. 2500 points can get you a lot of value for Sunday through Thursday, and even more in shoulder season. That said, It's probably worth nothing on the open market.
 

Fasttr

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Yep, if you own enrolled Weeks you can elect to convert them to DC Points and then rent out either the points as points, or, any reservations that you make with the points. Rented points are transferred from your account into the account of the renter so s/he gains total control over them. Rented reservations booked with DC Points work the same as rented reservations booked in the Weeks system, the owner retains control of the res and simply has to notify Marriott to add the renter/guest name.
In an effort of full disclosure for the newly MVC, there is non-commercial purpose language in the DC Exchange Docs as far as renting out actual accommodations. Commercial purpose does not appear to be defined anywhere I can tell, but just wanted to point out that the language is there for anybody contemplating a commercial venture of renting weeks acquired via the DC.

The Language....
Accommodations, Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, Special Benefits, and Use Periods may not be used for any commercial purpose. This prohibition on commercial use includes, but is not limited to, any illegal activity or a pattern of occupancy, rental, leasing, or use by a Program Member that Exchange Company, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. In the event a Program Member is determined to be reserving or using the Accommodations, Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, Special Benefits or Use Periods for any commercial purpose Exchange Company may immediately cancel any current reservation(s) made by such Program Member and may impose such additional penalties or restrictions as determined by Exchange Company, in its sole discretion, from time to time. The restrictions of this paragraph do not apply to Exchange Company or its affiliates or designees.
 
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SueDonJ

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In an effort of full disclosure for the newly MVC, there is non-commercial use language in the DC Exchange Docs as far as renting out actual accommodations. Commercial Use does not appear to be defined anywhere I can tell, but just wanted to point out that the language is there for anybody contemplating a commercial venture of renting weeks acquired via the DC.

The Language....
Accommodations, Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, Special Benefits, and Use Periods may not be used for any commercial purpose. This prohibition on commercial use includes, but is not limited to, any illegal activity or a pattern of occupancy, rental, leasing, or use by a Program Member that Exchange Company, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. In the event a Program Member is determined to be reserving or using the Accommodations, Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, Special Benefits or Use Periods for any commercial purpose Exchange Company may immediately cancel any current reservation(s) made by such Program Member and may impose such additional penalties or restrictions as determined by Exchange Company, in its sole discretion, from time to time. The restrictions of this paragraph do not apply to Exchange Company or its affiliates or designees.

Continuing in the full disclosure vein ...

There is also vague language in many-if-not-all of the resorts' Weeks governing docs referencing, "commercial activity" restrictions. language that MVW could conceivably invoke to disallow or somehow restrict owner rentals of Weeks reservations. It's always been something to keep in mind if ownership hinges on being able to rent in or out but if the question is whether it can be done now, I'm comfortable saying that owner rentals are allowed without qualification.

Several years ago, after unrestricted owner rentals had been allowed since Day One, Disney Vacation Club acted on similar language in their docs by restricting the number of reservations in an owner account to which a guest name could be attached. I thought then that Marriott might follow suit in some way but the more time passes since DVC's decision, the less I think it will happen with Marriott. (Knock wood that we don't wake up tomorrow to an email blast!)
 

JIMinNC

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I own a Marriott Timeshare, I will not say which one as this is a generic question, in a well known area for a summer--peak season--week.

The maintenance fees are now higher than what I could rent the week for and that is if I am lucky enough to get to choose the week I want.

So my question is even though I have enjoyed the timeshare for many years, and really have no plans to sell it, is the week now actually worth nothing or less than nothing?

Just because you may be able to rent the week from an owner for less than maintenance fees does not mean the week is worth zero on the resale market. Not everyone rents from other owners (even though it can be cheaper), and most timeshares rent from major booking sites at much higher rates than maintenance fees.

Without knowing what you own, we can't estimate the real value, but unlike most non-name-brand timeshares, Marriott timeshares - particularly summer peak season weeks - do have value on the secondary market. It will be no where what you may have paid MVC for it in years past, but it is unlikely to be worthless as many non-brand timeshares are. Some locations (Branson? New Jersey?) may have little to no resale value, but I believe they are the exception.
 

Dean

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I own a Marriott Timeshare, I will not say which one as this is a generic question, in a well known area for a summer--peak season--week.

The maintenance fees are now higher than what I could rent the week for and that is if I am lucky enough to get to choose the week I want.

So my question is even though I have enjoyed the timeshare for many years, and really have no plans to sell it, is the week now actually worth nothing or less than nothing?
In general I think most of the measure of timeshare value is in the usage though I do think there is a measurable financial component as well. I presume this is an Orlando week, if so, it's true that rental prices and II getaways are often as cheap or even often cheaper than the MF. Enrolled you can exchange to other Marriotts for free or take points and the value there can easily be more than your cumulative fees. Since it seems you plan to keep it and use it in anyway, I'd suggest maximizing the benefit and enjoyment you get out of it and not sweating the rest. If my assumptions of location are correct, it does have value but not that much. If you want to drop it you might see if Marriott will take it as a brokered sale and see what the prices are there compared to redweeks, Ebay, etc.

Continuing in the full disclosure vein ...

There is also vague language in many-if-not-all of the resorts' Weeks governing docs referencing, "commercial activity" restrictions. language that MVW could conceivably invoke to disallow or somehow restrict owner rentals of Weeks reservations. It's always been something to keep in mind if ownership hinges on being able to rent in or out but if the question is whether it can be done now, I'm comfortable saying that owner rentals are allowed without qualification.

Several years ago, after unrestricted owner rentals had been allowed since Day One, Disney Vacation Club acted on similar language in their docs by restricting the number of reservations in an owner account to which a guest name could be attached. I thought then that Marriott might follow suit in some way but the more time passes since DVC's decision, the less I think it will happen with Marriott. (Knock wood that we don't wake up tomorrow to an email blast!)
I'd have to look at the specifics of the language but normally these clauses are related to performing commercial activity out of the resort. DVC always had the rental restriction but had never put in place a formal definition. They didn't tie it down completely when they changed, just clarified with relatively vague language that essentially says they start looking at 20 reservations a year plus other measures such as having a rental website (not just using one such as redweeks).
 

HenryT

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@vail, the first step I'd take if I wanted to get rid of a Week is to contact Resales Operations and ask if they'll list it. There's no guarantee that they'll take it, no guarantee that they'll take today what they may have refused yesterday, but if they do it may be possible to get more of a return from them than on any of the external resale markets.

Contact Information: Toll-free 866-682-4547 or Direct 407-641-1801; Email resale.operations@VacationClub.com

******************

Moderator Note: I updated the Weeks FAQ to include this info. If anyone has current direct contact info/the link for purchasing direct resales (as stand-alones if they're available or as components of a Weeks/Points hybrid package,) please let me know and I'll update that, too. Thanks!
One more vote for contacting Resale Operations.

I had a silver season 2 bedroom unit at Marriott's Grande Ocean on Hilton Head Island which was very difficult to rent for more than maintenance fees because of the season. Though I loved the resort I didn't want to go there during that season either. The only time I was able to rent it to cover maintenance fees was when the Easter holiday fell on week 12 which was the last week of the silver season.

I checked with Resale Operations a couple of years ago and the were willing to buy it for $3,000 but I declined because it still had value to me for exchanging. This year I decided that I did not want to own any units that I was not going to occupy at least some of the time so I went back to Resale Operations to see if they would sell it (I had it listed for sale for several months at around $2,000 with no bites). Marriott said they would list it for sale and take 40% of the proceeds. Within a couple of months they found a buyer for a selling price of $7,500 which netted me $4,500. This deal just closed last month and the money is in the bank!

So for all you silver season Grande Ocean owners out there Resale Operations is the way to go if you are looking to sell, though I am sure their demand for these units will change with time.
 

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A ‘glass full’ way of looking at it, is in comparing what you get to hundreds of thousands of Bonvoy points to accommodate a family of 6 or more with hotel rooms.
 

AlmostRetired

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This is a point I try to make when people come to TUG with the 'What timeshare should I buy' question. In nearly every case they say they want to 'trade around', not understanding the economics involved in that. I tell them to either buy a pure point system with no 'home resort', or not buy any timeshare and simply rent. No buy-in cost, no annual fees, no sweating the exit plan.

Jim

I am not sure what economics you are referring to but I answer the question "which timeshare to buy to trade" very differently.

I have owned a trader since 1995. A non Marriott that I gave away about 5 years ago because the resorts trading value decreased slowly over time. The MF in 2013 was about 800 and the reason it went down in trading value. I paid 2500 for the unit in 1995. 5 years ago I picked up a Grand Chateau EOY for 1800 on eBay that I have traded 4 trades so far. I did not stay even once at my first trader and have no plans to stay at the Vegas one. In total, looking at history on II, since 1995 I have done about 23 trades. 90 Percent into Marriott's. I am tied to a school schedule so all but two were traded during peak time during either summer time or some school break in NY. Three of my trades were for the Monarch during the summer which allowed me to take the Marriott reward points for my Monarch (130,000 per year) summer week 3 times. Two of my non peak trades were a Grand Ocean during Christmas in 1999 and a Christmas at the Marriott in NJ in 2007. Both well worth the MF I paid at the time. Looking at just the GC, I traded the 1 bedroom side for HHI this past August to the GO and a 2 bedroom in Aruba last August at the Surf. The studio I traded for a 1 bedroom at Palm Desert last Christmas and the Grand Ocean April 10th 2020. All upgrade fees were gladly paid. Just using the GC, for about 2700 if MF cost, I got about 5000 in MF value and maybe 8500 in rental value. I am very confident that if I add the cost of resale purchases of my traders , the MF I paid for them and the MF value of the trades, I am very well ahead of the game. If I considered the rental value, it is higher.

so my answer to which one to buy to trade is any resort that you can buy cheap enough, has a reasonable MF and trade wells. I would say buy ePlus to retrade to better your hand for any trade you make in case somewhere comes up you would rather be. A good example is right now if you get onto II, there are 3 St Thomas weeks available in July and in 2 St Kitts. I texted my kids asking them if they would like to go to either. They said no but if they said yes, I would have retraded the April 2020 GO. It is work.... yes, but to me well worth it.

I am neutral on points so I will offer no opinion on that as a trading strategy other than to say the MF points for the MF unit equivalent would have been more unless you have point level status. I do have an enrolled legacy week believing when I retire, I will be able to rent points and use during non peak travel.

Just another view from the bridge.
 
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kds4

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Yet the week is enrolled and receives 2500 points a year.
At the going rate of over $10 a point does that mean it is worth $25,000?
Of course that figure seems like lunacy.
That brings up an entirely different question--why people purchase points to stay in existing timeshares that could probably be rented without having to purchase points?

IMHO, the value of your enrolled week is the cash value of what you can 'redeem' those 2500 points for in stays at MVC resorts. Depending on your travel flexibility, 2500 points is worth as much as 4 weeks in a 2BR at some locations during off-season. So, I'm guessing that the cash rate value of 2500 points worth of reservations is likely still more than your annual MFs. For that reason, I would say the week still has value. If it were not enrolled, then I would likely agree with Steven's post that its worth is subjective only based on how you see it.
 

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IMHO, the value of your enrolled week is the cash value of what you can 'redeem' those 2500 points for in stays at MVC resorts. Depending on your travel flexibility, 2500 points is worth as much as 4 weeks in a 2BR at some locations during off-season. So, I'm guessing that the cash rate value of 2500 points worth of reservations is likely still more than your annual MFs. For that reason, I would say the week still has value. If it were not enrolled, then I would likely agree with Steven's post that its worth is subjective only based on how you see it.

Funny thing.
For many years we were busy trading the week and with bonus certificates etc we would receive 2-3 weeks at Marriott timeshares.
For the last 10 years even though we have the points option, we just book our home resort.
Occasionally we rent points to add a few days.
 

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It is possible to have a week that has a zero or negative (you play closing cost or MF to give it away) worth but still has value to you. The real question to ask yourself is are you getting a value from your unit that is equal to or greater than your MF. This depends on how you use it. If your MF is greater than a rental and all you do is rent your unit or use it, the unit has no value to you. If you trade it to a place you want to go and the cost of renting a unit at that place is greater than your MF plus trading fees, your unit has value to you regardless of the worth.
 
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Robert D

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In an effort of full disclosure for the newly MVC, there is non-commercial purpose language in the DC Exchange Docs as far as renting out actual accommodations. Commercial purpose does not appear to be defined anywhere I can tell, but just wanted to point out that the language is there for anybody contemplating a commercial venture of renting weeks acquired via the DC.

The Language....
Accommodations, Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, Special Benefits, and Use Periods may not be used for any commercial purpose. This prohibition on commercial use includes, but is not limited to, any illegal activity or a pattern of occupancy, rental, leasing, or use by a Program Member that Exchange Company, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. In the event a Program Member is determined to be reserving or using the Accommodations, Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, Special Benefits or Use Periods for any commercial purpose Exchange Company may immediately cancel any current reservation(s) made by such Program Member and may impose such additional penalties or restrictions as determined by Exchange Company, in its sole discretion, from time to time. The restrictions of this paragraph do not apply to Exchange Company or its affiliates or designees.

I wonder if this restriction applies to week owners (vs. points owners) who rent out their week. If so, how does Marriott rent out the weeks that they own at all the resorts? Since Marriott owns weeks just like legacy owners own, shouldn't this restriction apply to Marriott?

Regarding the comments above, it seems to me that if a week cannot be rented for a fair amount more than the maintenance fee, then the timeshare is worthless. If you can rent the week for a little more than the fees, why would you want to own it and be liable for future maintenance fees, which always seem to increase.
 

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I wonder if this restriction applies to week owners (vs. points owners) who rent out their week. If so, how does Marriott rent out the weeks that they own at all the resorts? Since Marriott owns weeks just like legacy owners own, shouldn't this restriction apply to Marriott?
See last sentence in the wording.... they took care of that.

The restrictions of this paragraph do not apply to Exchange Company or its affiliates or designees.
 
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