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Marriott, Int'l BONVOY Changes Effective 9/14/19 [Merged]

Superchief

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It will be interesting to see if the Non-peak award rates are offered in full service hotels on weekends. Weekend cash rates are typically much lower than week nights. I often spend the first or last night of a DC points trip at an airport hotel since the weekend DC point requirements are much higher. It would be nice if Bonvoy offers non-peak awards at airport FS hotels.
 

SueDonJ

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Actually, the weeks owners have been hit harder with the MR/Bonvoy points devaluation. Weeks to Bonvoy points conversion is fixed and to my knowledge has never changed. In comparison, DC point started out in 2010 as 1 DC point = 32 MR points. That conversion was increased a year or so ago and is now a 1:40 conversion ratio (a 25% improvement). Still not a good value, but they did at least make an attempt at recasting the conversion ratio to reflect the devaluing MR/Bonvoy points.
Also worth noting is that owners of enrolled Weeks can't take advantage of the higher exchange rate of DC Exchange Points-to-Bonvoy Points because enrolled Weeks can be exchanged *either* for DC Exchange Points *or* for Bonvoy Points, meaning DC Exchange Points from enrolled/converted Weeks can't be subsequently exchanged for Bonvoy Points. If MVW sets a pattern of adjusting up the DC Trust (purchased) Points-to-Bonvoy Points metric following Bonvoy devaluations, Weeks Owners will continue to take even harder hits.
 

csalter2

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Also worth noting is that owners of enrolled Weeks can't take advantage of the higher exchange rate of DC Exchange Points-to-Bonvoy Points because enrolled Weeks can be exchanged *either* for DC Exchange Points *or* for Bonvoy Points, meaning DC Exchange Points from enrolled/converted Weeks can't be subsequently exchanged for Bonvoy Points. If MVW sets a pattern of adjusting up the DC Trust (purchased) Points-to-Bonvoy Points metric following Bonvoy devaluations, Weeks Owners will continue to take even harder hits.

When I was at the Pulse in NYC earlier this month, the salesman tried to tell me that what was missing from my portfolio was the points part of the system. He was talking about Bonvoy points because my weeks do not get many of them and they are all every other week conversions. He actually tried to convince me to purchase Custom House to add that feature to my portfolio along with a 2000 point DC purchase next to it. Hahahaha! He offered Custom House to lower point cost but also because Custom House can convert to points Every Year instead of alternating years.
 

SueDonJ

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When I was at the Pulse in NYC earlier this month, the salesman tried to tell me that what was missing from my portfolio was the points part of the system. He was talking about Bonvoy points because my weeks do not get many of them and they are all every other week conversions. He actually tried to convince me to purchase Custom House to add that feature to my portfolio along with a 2000 point DC purchase next to it. Hahahaha! He offered Custom House to lower point cost but also because Custom House can convert to points Every Year instead of alternating years.

Yep, that's worth laughing at! Exchanging to Bonvoy Points is a good perk to have when you have no other use for whatever you own, and many people have figured out how to stretch them as far as possible with Travel Packages, but no way should it be the reason to buy DC Trust Points! Long gone are the days when turning in a Week for Marriott Rewards Points got you a Trip Around The World (or whatever it was called) package with hotels plus flights. Not miles to amass trying to get flights, but actual flights!
 

Dean

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I think the Marriott family recognized that customer and employee loyalty enhance long-term profits. I always felt valued as a customer and the overall quality and service at Marriott hotels exceeded most competitors. It was worth a slightly higher cost.

Companies make major mistakes when they alienate long-time loyal customers by cost cutting and 'margin enhancement'. Kraft/Heinz and other major CPG companies are examples of what happens when your products become commodities.
But it's all smoke and mirrors. It's like when someone says they do or don't like a resort because of their interactions with the personnel there. The next person may have a completely different experience and even if it's real and reproducible, it'll change before long as staff cycle through. Certainly taking things away is looked at negatively by a large segment of the customers. IMO it's ultimately not possible to keep up with expectations from groups that want to continue to be wowed and courted. My point was, in part, that if one has reasonable expectations going in and there are fairly minor changes, it doesn't cause consternation.

I don’t think that people believe that it costs money to have these loyalty programs. Breakfasts aren’t free, the housekeeper’s salary is not free, the electricity to clean sheets and towels is not free, that 4 p.m. checkout is not free because it requires more housekeeping or overtime. There is some cost associated with every benefit offered by the loyalty programs. As costs increase, you must understand that there is going to naturally be some sort of devaluation of the points to keep the “free” stuff.

I think people are unrealistic and naive to think the points values are to stay the same.
To an extent but I'd also say that if it made sense to do X at one point when it had cost, continuing to offer that service should generally cost around the same adjusted over time though there are exceptions. Let's take Disney & DVC for example. Many years ago Disney offered free valet parking to all guests but that didn't last that long. However, it was a perk of DVC membership even after the first contract where the valet's were outsourced. Then when it came time to redo the contract the company was no longer willing to do it for free to get the volume and it would have jumped instantly to full price which DVCMC would have had to cover at full price had they continued the option. No reasonable person would have continued the perk in that situation though they made the change poorly. Basically they didn't announce it, didn't have a phase in and effetely some showed up with free valet and left with a bill with no warning.
 

CalGalTraveler

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True, but to keep the conversation more clear on the MVC forum, I would suggest trying to focus the discussion toward aspects of the Bonvoy program directly involving timeshare ownership, such as whether MVC owners will still be able to book peak season stays using accommodation certificates from our 5 night travel packages versus generic loyalty program issues like who is or isn't getting free breakfast now (unless it was a function of some ownership tier change within the Destination Club program).

All Bonvoy question have merit, but if I was a non-timeshare owner looking for answers about my Bonvoy membership, I wouldn't be coming to TUG to find answers. I would go to one of the other online forum websites where I would likely find far more folks who could answer those non-timeshare ownership impacted questions, like FlyerTalk's Marriott forum (just as I would suspect timeshare related Bonvoy questions on FlyerTalk would be directed to TUG). YMMV. :cool:

Bonvoy now affects much more than MVC. Perhaps a Bonvoy discussion should be moved in the Lounge. Either way is fine. Sure there's FlyerTalk, however MVC owners and (non-MVC TUGers who stay at Marriotts) have a wealth of knowledge on how best to leverage Bonvoy points. Tuggers have provided helpful info and it is much appreciated. I would rather hear from Tuggers that I trust than random strangers (and bots) on Flyertalk.

I don't think there is confusion about MVCI because the thread title makes it clear that the discussion is about Bonvoy. Sure there are a few posts with Bonvoy specifics that don't pertain to timeshares but they are all factual. That's par for the course. It doesn't compare to creating a post with unsubstantiated MVC sales rumors about the merger...;)
 
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kds4

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"As of 14 September 2019 Bonvoy members will not be able to have more than 3 active Points Advance reservations at any one time and the Points Advance option will only guarantee award availability at a property and not the final cost in points. Properties can change the points cost of a Points Advance booking up to when the points are actually debited from a Bonvoy member’s account – the price (cost in points) you’re quoted at the time a Points Advance reservation is made may not be the cost you eventually pay."

The bolded part is what I think bothers me most. So, if I want to go somewhere and make a points advance booking but between my reservation and check-in dates Marriott changes the hotel category or changes the dates of the 3 points 'seasons' for that property, I'm left to either more likely pay more in points (or possibly less) or have to cancel the booking altogether (unless I'm able to switch to a cash rate - assuming one's available).

This makes me think it best to secure the points needed asap to 'lock-in' the rate and prevent a more likely 'float-up' in cost. Of course, if the cost actually goes down (after the points have been deducted from your account), can you get a points rebate credited back? It seems not, as the article only references canceling the original points booking and trying to make a new one at the lower rate (assuming there is available points inventory once you 'release' the room you had and try to book it again. Worst case, may require a phone call to central reservations. If I was going where there was a big event, I would probably just try to do it over the phone to prevent losing the room altogether if points costs actually declined (which would probably prompt me to go buy a lottery ticket ...)
 

dioxide45

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Pretty extensive discussion already here.
 

BocaBoy

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TS ownership is a long-term slog/commitment over years. I don't know the present demographic of what % of we MVC folks go back to late 90s and up to 2007 before the recession brings paradigm change to the character & function of MVC.
A few of us go back to the 80's as Marriott timeshare owners.
 

BocaBoy

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Long gone are the days when turning in a Week for Marriott Rewards Points got you a Trip Around The World (or whatever it was called) package with hotels plus flights. Not miles to amass trying to get flights, but actual flights!
True, but those "actual flights" were in coach. I took advantage of them, but I was pleased when they made the switch to giving airline miles because we do not enjoy flying across oceans in coach. This has become even more important in recent years with the decreases seen in the quality of airline coach seating and amenities.
 

Quilter

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Like with the travel packages?

We have 380K points. I'd like to purchase a package before the price increases.

Can someone give me the best value for my points? StevenTing, aren't you the expert?
 

mjm1

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Like with the travel packages?

We have 380K points. I'd like to purchase a package before the price increases.

Can someone give me the best value for my points? StevenTing, aren't you the expert?

I don’t think any changes are happening to the travel packages, but on Sept. 14 they are rolling out the new off-peak and high-Peak Points charts. So there will be off-Peak, standard, and high-Peak rates for points usage. There are some other nuances to the system as well.

Best regards.

Mike
 

TheTimeTraveler

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I don’t think any changes are happening to the travel packages, but on Sept. 14 they are rolling out the new off-peak and high-Peak Points charts. So there will be off-Peak, standard, and high-Peak rates for points usage. There are some other nuances to the system as well.

Best regards.

Mike




Yes, there will be a Giant sucking sounds of points leaving customer accounts and going into the Marriott coffers as it will more than likely take additional points to make the same reservation next week (after September 14th) than it does today.



.
 

pianodinosaur

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Yes, there will be a Giant sucking sounds of points leaving customer accounts and going into the Marriott coffers as it will more than likely take additional points to make the same reservation next week (after September 14th) than it does today.



.

Now would be the time to access the BONVOY app. You can get some very nice five night stays with 380,000 Bonvoy points.
 

kds4

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I don’t think any changes are happening to the travel packages, but on Sept. 14 they are rolling out the new off-peak and high-Peak Points charts. So there will be off-Peak, standard, and high-Peak rates for points usage. There are some other nuances to the system as well.

Best regards.

Mike

Yes, which begs the underlying question to OP's initial post - Will the implementation of peak/off-peak pricing have a corresponding impact on the cost of 5/7 Night Travel Packages (TPs)? It could be that TP pricing will remain unchanged, but if you attempt to use it to make a reservation during a property's 'peak pricing', you will be hit with an 'upcharge' in points at that time. Of course, don't expect a refund if you happen to be traveling during a property's 'off-peak pricing' (although I would make it an issue just on principle were that to happen to me). If TPs are going to be charged more for peak, then rebates for off-peak should be available as well. IMHO.
 

Fasttr

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Yes, which begs the underlying question to OP's initial post - Will the implementation of peak/off-peak pricing have a corresponding impact on the cost of 5/7 Night Travel Packages (TPs)? It could be that TP pricing will remain unchanged, but if you attempt to use it to make a reservation during a property's 'peak pricing', you will be hit with an 'upcharge' in points at that time. Of course, don't expect a refund if you happen to be traveling during a property's 'off-peak pricing' (although I would make it an issue just on principle were that to happen to me). If TPs are going to be charged more for peak, then rebates for off-peak should be available as well. IMHO.
I believe it has been reported that since the travel packages are category based, not point based, they will not be affected by peak/off peak pricing, which will help to mitigate the continued devaluation if used during a peak pricing windows.
 
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Quilter

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In the old SPG system I remember being able to get rooms with a standard rate of points even though the cash prices were on a scale of peak and non-peak pricing. Hopefully the new blended system does this.

So from what I'm reading it would probably be a good time to pick a location for a reservation and book it before 9/14, just to be safe?

I'm thinking of a multi-week trip combining the Hilton points (different thread) with Bonvoy. Hawaii maybe. I just have no idea what dates or what island.
 

Mr. Vker

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I believe it has been reported that since the travel packages are category based, not point based, they will not be affected by peak/off peak pricing, which will help to mitigate the continued devaluation if used during a peak pricing window.

Has that been reported by Marriott? Back when MR has "anytime awards" you couldn't use certificates to book award stays if a standard award wasn't available. I'm a little worried about this.
 
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