• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Marriott, Int'l BONVOY Changes Effective 9/14/19 [Merged]

pchung6

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
1,121
Reaction score
571
Points
223
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORVN-OF, SVVx3, SBP, MKO-OV, MWR
I have a question regarding my travel packages. I’ve 2 Category 5 7 night packages. Since I just received an exchange to Kingsland at big island in 2020, I need to cancel my existing reservation for Westin at big island. I plan to rebook in 2021, but the reservation for 2021 hasn’t opened yet. I wonder will the travel package subject to peak season or it will still go by hotel category?
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
Although the MVC and Vistana programs remain separate. IMHO...This thread is about Bonvoy hotel points devaluation which affects both MVC and Vistana because the points have been consolidated by Marriott Int'l. It doesn't make sense to duplicate threads about a consolidated program.
 
Last edited:

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,393
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
We have a lot of non MVCI owners making various claims about MVCI lately, even though they are not familiar with MVCI ownerships.

Actually, I don't think they can be changed, I believe it's part of the legal doc, someone else can confirm where that wording is found, I believe they can change an individual weeks points assignment, as long as the total for the year does not change. Probably you need to open a new thread, all these discussions have been going off topic lately.

But no, this is the MVCI forum, and, nothing did change for the members of this forum as far as levels. So, no, people in the MVCi forum are not wrong. The issue here is we have a lot of non MVCI owners coming in these forums now with the acquisition, though the programs are not merged yet and may never even be.

For me, I would presume answers found in the MVCI section are in general meant for MVCI owners. We don't know what does or does not apply to non MVCI owners. I know I do not. This is adding confusion.
This was
Merged if I’m not mistaken. Not sure which forum this is in as I just see it on the main page in active threads.

Bonvoy affects us all since MVC and Hotels are separate, the same bonvoy program you are part of is the same other owners are part of.

Correct, I’m not familiar with DC points program as I am with the VSN program. So I can speak only to that and it states MVC reserves the right to change at any time the star options chart, including values etc.
 
Last edited:

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
7,508
Reaction score
4,393
Points
349
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West/Bella
WKV
Regal Vista at Massanutten
I think there's a vast difference between points-based timeshare products and points-based reward/loyalty programs. The timeshare companies are severely constrained by the legalities that prevent them from devaluing points-based-intervals in the same or similar manner to the multitude of ways that the hotel companies are legally able to devalue, and even cease, any affiliations with reward programs.

Think of it in terms of what you used to have available to you when Vistana was under the Starwood umbrella - your timeshare-related StarOptions did not work the same as your SPG points. That difference exists with Marriott products, too - the DC Points timeshare product (whether purchased or from enrolled Weeks) is definitely not subject to the same kind of devaluations that will happen with Bonvoy points.



I agree. It is. The best we can do while all of us Marriott/Vistana/Hyatt people try to figure out what the MVW acquisition of Vistana and Hyatt might come to mean is, realize that the expertise of all existing owners is what will help us all eventually learn what we need to know to get the best usage out of what we each own. :)
I agree the TS points are totally different than hotel points. True, I’m not familiar with DC. But I saw in Vistana CCR that they can adjust values of star options. Not sure if that’s the same with DC. I think that’s where the concern comes in regarding points in the Vacation Ownership world.

Back to the bonvoy situation, I think everyone has had issues in some form or another. I actually don’t mind the peak and off peak valuations. I tend to travel off peak times. If DC isn’t subject to the same types of devaluations then that’s a good thing!

Also, I saw this was merged. I know there was a thread in the vistana forum. I thought thats where I was posting.
 

csalter2

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
554
Points
473
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko Olina
Marriott Aruba Surf Club
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Diamond Resorts Gold
It is very interesting for me to read so many comments/opinions of various people. Some are accurate and some aren’t. A new timeshare owner is bound to be confused. If we can stick to what we know as fact and let make clear what we feel is either opinion or conjecture, that would make it easier for those following the thread.

First, there is a difference between Destination Points for timeshares and Bonvoy Points for hotels. Destination Points CANNOT BE DEVALUED by Marriott. The points are tied to real estate weeks. So if it takes 4000 points to stay in a 2 bedroom ocean view in Hawaii today, it will cost you the same 4000 points to stay in that unit 20 years from now. There will be no going up in points needed. I have been with my timeshare with Diamond Resorts and was with three previous developers before Diamond bought them and the points needed to reserve never increased. Where you get increases in Destination Points is in the maintenance fees. So that’s where they get their money, not changing the amount of points needed to reserve the unit.

As for the Bonvoy Points, those are for the hotels only and they can do whatever they wish and devalue them as they desire. What people seem to forget is that Bonvoy Points/Marriott Rewards Points are FREEBIES. You have not paid a dime/penny/nickel/dollar for them. They were GIVEN to you. Many of people get them not because money even came out of their pockets. Their jobs paid for the room and they get employee staying at the hotel gets the FREEIE. It’s interesting how people forget this. Some of these people even get indignant if the simplest of errors are made by the hotel like not saying they are Titanium and they have not used one red dime of theirs to attain that status. Those of us who are MVC owners are just as bad because we too forget that we bought a timeshare and the Bonvoy points are an EXTRA PERK not a part of our contract that we paid for. It is a nice to have FREEBIE that Marriott gave.

Marriott makes it very, very clear that they can change or even terminate the Bonvoy program. I personally have not spent and dime for my Bonvoy Points. I get them through updates, hotel stays that I not my company pays for but I don’t use hotels but maybe 5 or 6 nights out of a year. I buy everything I would normally buy and put it on the credit card. I need to pay my electric bill, I need to buy food and clothing. I put my needs on that card and pay it off. I was going to spend anyway. So my Bonvoy points are all FREEBIES and I recognize it as such.

So I don’t worry about Marriott devaluing THEIR points. Heck, I appreciate having free breakfasts and room nights on them. I have not paid one red cent to earn those points except using their brand. I believe there are many on this site who forget this very basic premise. We help Marriott rich, and they throw us some good bennies that we DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR. If we remember that and leave our entitlement mentality behind we can be happier.

If you don’t like Marriott, be like my wife and become a Diamond member with Hilton. She is definitely an entitled one, a downright Hilton snob!. :)
 
Last edited:

pianodinosaur

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
1,965
Reaction score
239
Points
273
Location
Texas
Resorts Owned
HGVC SeaWorld x 2, HGVC Las Vegas Strip x 2, MVC Mountain Valley Lodge, MVC Legend’s Edge
Hotel chains and airlines are not required to have customer loyalty programs. However there is a good reason why they do. I think it has something to do with promoting customer loyalty. If you go on a cruise, most of the passengers have already been on multiple cruises. The cruise industry could not survive without people who take frequent cruises. I think this is the justification for Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, IHG, and Hyatt credit cards. We earn these points by using their credit cards and patronizing their properties. My last two Bonvoy redemptions were at the St Regis in Kauai in late June 2018 and at the Westin in Avon in January 2019. I spent a great deal at both facilities during our stay, thus earning more points. I have a Hilton Honors redemption in the next two weeks at The Buffalo Thunder Resort in Santa Fe. I anticipate spending money there as well.

Therefore, I would argue that customer loyalty programs exist for the benefit of the sponsors. As a loyal customer of both Bonvoy and Hilton, I enjoy the benefits. However, Thanks to the corporate powers that be, The St Regis in Kauai is no longer a St Regis as it as been taken over by another corporation and The Las Vegas Hilton property is now managed by Westgate. Just another form of point devaluation.
 
Last edited:

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
It is very interesting for me to read so many comments/opinions of various people. Some are accurate and some aren’t. A new timeshare owner is bound to be confused. If we can stick to what we know as fact and let make clear what we feel is either opinion or conjecture, that would make it easier for those following the thread.

First, there is a difference between Destination Points for timeshares and Bonvoy Points for hotels. Destination Points CANNOT BE DEVALUED by Marriott. The points are tied to real estate weeks. So if it takes 4000 points to stay in a 2 bedroom ocean view in Hawaii today, it will cost you the same 4000 points to stay in that unit 20 years from now. There will be no going up in points needed. I have been with my timeshare with Diamond Resorts and was with three previous developers before Diamond bought them and the points needed to reserve never increased. Where you get increases in Destination Points is in the maintenance fees. So that’s where they get there money, not changing the amount of points needed to reserve the unit.

As for the Bonvoy Points, those are for the hotels only and they can do whatever they wish and devalue them as they desire. What people seem to forget is that Bonvoy Points/Marriott Rewards Points are FREEBIES. You have not paid a dime/penny/nickel/dollar for them. They were GIVEN to you. Many of people get them not because money even came out of their pockets. Their jobs paid for the room and they get employee staying at the hotel gets the FREEIE. It’s interesting how people forget this. Some of these people even get indignant if the simplest of errors are made by the hotel like not saying they are Titanium and they have not used one red dime of theirs to attain that status. Those of us who are MVC owners are just as bad because we too forget that we bought a timeshare and the Bonvoy points are an EXTRA PERK not a part of our contract that we paid for. It is a nice to have FREEBIE that Marriott gave.

Marriott makes it very, very clear that they can change or even terminate the Bonvoy program. I personally have not spent and dime for my Bonvoy Points. I get them through updates, hotel stays that I not my company pays for but I don’t use hotels but maybe 5 or 6 nights out of a year. I buy everything I would normally buy and put it on the credit card. I need to pay my electric bill, I need to buy food and clothing. I put my needs on that card and pay it off. I was going to spend anyway. So my Bonvoy points are all FREEBIES and I recognize it as such.

So I don’t worry about Marriott devaluing THEIR points. Heck, I appreciate having free breakfasts and room nights on them. I have not paid one red cent to earn those points except using their brand. I believe there are many on this site who forget this very basic premise. We help Marriott rich, and they throw us some good bennies that we DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR. If we remember that and leave our entitlement mentality behind we can be happier.

If you don’t like Marriott, be like my wife and become a Diamond member with Hilton. She is definitely an entitled one, a downright Hilton snob!. :)

In general I agree, but the devaluation of the Bonvoy program devalues the hotel conversion element of the MVC and Vistana programs. However, conversion to Bonvoy has not been a decent option for a long time (and getting worse). As a resale owner conversion is dead to me. But I didn't buy a timeshare to get hotel points - but some owners did. That devaluation is very real for such buyers.

Although it is not a cash outlay, you are paying for points in the form of higher hotel and airfare costs to support these programs. When you receive the points it is a form of rebate on those costs. Heck, even the IRS recognizes points as a rebate because you are not taxed on points you collect.

When points are collected via a credit card, you are opting for the points currency instead of 2% cash back which you could receive via other credit cards - that's an opportunity cost.

For example: If you spend $100,000 a year and you have a 2% cash back card, that's $2000 a year. That's significant. The loyalty game has been about getting more than $2000 benefit from hotel stays. That game is getting much harder to play with Bonvoy which makes 2% cash back cards more attractive - especially without the complicated rules and rapid devaluations.

I agree that devaluation of the timeshare points is a different discussion. It's possible but much harder as it involves chipping at the edges of trust composition, and limiting access to new properties either in the form of:

1) Separate property pools as we have seen with DVC which has roped off their legacy customers from the newer resort; HGVC with by Hilton Club with 60 day access if you don't own bHC.

2) Points Inflation: Offering newer resorts with inflated points requirements relative to the older resorts which requires the buy-in of more points to stay there.​

So, yes the points are tied to a deed and are not likely to change, but if you try to use them on a newer property you will need to buy more points.
 
Last edited:

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,909
Reaction score
3,583
Points
648
Exactly, so to all of those who say “we lost nothing” is wrong. Sad reality that’s business. Nothing is like it used to be and these points programs are generally devalued constantly. It makes owning a points based vacation ownership scary. That too can be devalued. Maybe not overnight but it can absolutely go down little by little over the years.
I think it's important to realize what's contractual and what's not. This is a thread on reward points and as such, the entire program is an add on that could go away tomorrow if they so chose. I liken it to 2010 when the DC system came out. One of my life mantras is that someone else's gain is not automatically my loss. So those who are not DC members but own Marriott weeks and those that joined the DC but deal with the skin did not lose anything from before the program came out. They can still use their weeks which is all they had before. One MIGHT be able to make the case that there is a minor affect on direct availability but that's it. That there might be less availability in II or they might not be able to take points and reserve the same exact item due to the skim is reality but it's not a loss in terms of compared to pre or without DC enrollment. I know some are not happy because they feel the skim is too much and I can't disagree with that opinion, but they have the choice. The reality is that essentially everything, even the contractual options, can be changed with the setup of the POS. They have 100% control of the reservation system and the POS itself can be changed fairly easily.
 

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
9,455
Reaction score
4,662
Points
649
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
This is exactly why I will always own weeks at my ownerships.

Agree. For the last 5 or 6 years of my TimeSharing experience I owned Fixed Week/Fixed Units at six different Independent HOA Controlled Resorts. I not only knew where I was going to stay but the cost of Ownership was negligible. In addition I never had trouble getting Management at my Resorts to move my week when I requested it...

George
 

dougp26364

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
14,482
Reaction score
3,157
Points
698
Location
Kansas
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grand Chateau
Marriott Shadow Ridge
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Marriott Destination Club Points
Hilton Grand Vacation Club Las Vegas Blvd
Grand Colorado on Peak 8
Spinnaker French Quarter Resort Branson
Soooooo, glad I never purchased a week from Marriott with the intention of becoming a "Marriott Millionaire" in terms of using timeshare weeks converted to what was then Marriott Rewards points with the idea of collecting over 1 million points to take travel package trips. My reason given to the salesman was always that the program wasn't guaranteed not to either change or be discontinued. I feel for those who purchased weeks with the lone intention of converting them every year for hotel points.

On the other hand, in 2001 when we purchased our Ocean Pointe week, my original thought was to lock it off, use the master suite one year, the studio the next year and trade for points every other year. We were still a little naïve about timeshare and I let the salesmen convince me I wouldn't have to deposit, trade back into my own resort AND give up our ocean front view. 2003 was the ONLY year we've deposited our unit for points and, we've never done it again.

The program was devalued to the point we rarely use our Marriott Rewards card these days. We still use it for Marriott stays or security deposits at Marriott Timeshares and I'll take the points when making payments to Marriott. But we no longer collect points with the thought of using them for vacations. We save them until we need a night or two at a hotel and burn them at that time. Most recently in Reno when we had an early morning flight back home and we didn't was to get up at 04:00 AM to drive from our stay at Timber Lodge to the airport in Reno. Our next potential usage may be the next time we fly to Hawaii. We've grown tired of the 15 hour travel day flying from the Midwest to Hawaii and will look into spending the night on the west coast, then flying to Hawaii the next morning.
 

Superchief

TUG Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
3,945
Reaction score
2,843
Points
448
Location
Cincinnati, OH
I agree that this is a loyalty program and there are no contractual commitments. However, since Sorenson took over, the MR points we had earned over several years have quickly diminished in value. I have been a member since the program's inception and there were only slight increases for over 20 years. Now, the value of points is about half of what they were a few years ago. Similar to a rebate, we expect the value to be a certain level when we achieve our points goal. However, Marriott now keeps moving the goal posts. I wouldn't have a problem if we were able to use our accumulated points under the awards structure in place when we earned them, and the higher redemption rates would apply to points earned in the future. This would be fair to customers and to Marriott.

I had been a very loyal customer for Marriott for the past 30+ years because they valued my business. That is no longer the case, so they have lost my loyalty. My decisions now will be based on cost, location, and quality of the hotel regardless of brand. Marriott has allowed their business to become a commodity and I believe their profits will suffer longer term. Customers are willing to pay a premium when they are loyal.
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,749
Reaction score
8,274
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
Marriott and United cater to the corporate travel crowd. Most employees hair is on fire so grabbing Bonvoy points while company pays bill feels good even if they are too busy to know they are pesos.

Marriott doesnt care about consumers or timeshare owners because they provide lower margins and most get "free" points and elite via credit cards instead of paid stays.
 
Last edited:

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,909
Reaction score
3,583
Points
648
My decisions now will be based on cost, location, and quality of the hotel regardless of brand. Marriott has allowed their business to become a commodity and I believe their profits will suffer longer term.
IMO this should have always been the core components of any decision making. The other stuff is just an add on bonus. I realize there's an emotional component but it should be minimal and best case scenario, it should be almost nonexistent.
 

dougp26364

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
14,482
Reaction score
3,157
Points
698
Location
Kansas
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grand Chateau
Marriott Shadow Ridge
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Marriott Destination Club Points
Hilton Grand Vacation Club Las Vegas Blvd
Grand Colorado on Peak 8
Spinnaker French Quarter Resort Branson
IMO this should have always been the core components of any decision making. The other stuff is just an add on bonus. I realize there's an emotional component but it should be minimal and best case scenario, it should be almost nonexistent.

BINGO!

Usually a hard learned lesson though.
 

kds4

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
401
Points
293
Location
USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Weeks and DC Points
This may not be new for others, but it was for us when the Marriott hotel we planned to stay would not accept Bonvoy points for the dates we wanted to stay. The hotel would accept cash only. We reserved a Marriott with points a few miles away, but it was annoying that a Marriott hotel could decide it would not accept Marriott currency (Bonvoy points) at all for the dates we wanted to reserve...only US dollars. Devaluation is one issue but opting out of accepting points at all is another problematic issue altogether in my opinion.

I believe this ability to adjust inventory control at the local level to determine how many rooms are available on a given night for points reservations versus cash reservations has always been there. The cash rates are more valuable to the hotel owners (despite the potential for F&B spend from a points guest) as corporate reimbursement to the individual hotels for points guests room costs is probably below publicly available rates, I suspect. It is frustrating to try and make a points reservation somewhere and have no availability show on the website, but when you switch to cash rates (voila) rooms magically appear. :crash:
 

kds4

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
401
Points
293
Location
USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Weeks and DC Points
I have a question regarding my travel packages. I’ve 2 Category 5 7 night packages. Since I just received an exchange to Kingsland at big island in 2020, I need to cancel my existing reservation for Westin at big island. I plan to rebook in 2021, but the reservation for 2021 hasn’t opened yet. I wonder will the travel package subject to peak season or it will still go by hotel category?

Travel package accommodation certificates (ACs) are tied to hotel categories, in your case they are usable at any Category 1 through Category 5 property (with points based rooms available for the dates you want).
 
Last edited:

kds4

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
401
Points
293
Location
USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Weeks and DC Points
Although the MVC and Vistana programs remain separate. IMHO...This thread is about Bonvoy hotel points devaluation which affects both MVC and Vistana because the points have been consolidated by Marriott Int'l. It doesn't make sense to duplicate threads about a consolidated program.

True, but to keep the conversation more clear on the MVC forum, I would suggest trying to focus the discussion toward aspects of the Bonvoy program directly involving timeshare ownership, such as whether MVC owners will still be able to book peak season stays using accommodation certificates from our 5 night travel packages versus generic loyalty program issues like who is or isn't getting free breakfast now (unless it was a function of some ownership tier change within the Destination Club program).

All Bonvoy questions have merit, but if I was a non-timeshare owner looking for answers about my Bonvoy membership, I wouldn't be coming to TUG to find answers. I would go to one of the other online forum websites where I would likely find far more folks who could answer those non-timeshare ownership impacted questions, like FlyerTalk's Marriott forum (just as I would suspect timeshare related Bonvoy questions on FlyerTalk would be directed to TUG). YMMV. :cool:
 
Last edited:

Superchief

TUG Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
3,945
Reaction score
2,843
Points
448
Location
Cincinnati, OH
IMO this should have always been the core components of any decision making. The other stuff is just an add on bonus. I realize there's an emotional component but it should be minimal and best case scenario, it should be almost nonexistent.
I think the Marriott family recognized that customer and employee loyalty enhance long-term profits. I always felt valued as a customer and the overall quality and service at Marriott hotels exceeded most competitors. It was worth a slightly higher cost.

Companies make major mistakes when they alienate long-time loyal customers by cost cutting and 'margin enhancement'. Kraft/Heinz and other major CPG companies are examples of what happens when your products become commodities.
 

csalter2

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
554
Points
473
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko Olina
Marriott Aruba Surf Club
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Diamond Resorts Gold
I don’t think that people believe that it costs money to have these loyalty programs. Breakfasts aren’t free, the housekeeper’s salary is not free, the electricity to clean sheets and towels is not free, that 4 p.m. checkout is not free because it requires more housekeeping or overtime. There is some cost associated with every benefit offered by the loyalty programs. As costs increase, you must understand that there is going to naturally be some sort of devaluation of the points to keep the “free” stuff.

I think people are unrealistic and naive to think the points values are to stay the same.
 

controller1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
1,940
Points
298
Location
Tulsa
Resorts Owned
Westin KORVN OF
Westin Nanea OF
Westin FLEX
I believe this ability to adjust inventory control at the local level to determine how many rooms are available on a given night for points reservations versus cash reservations has always been there.

This ability has only been historically at the legacy-Marriott properties. Starwood's policy was that if a basic/traditional room was available for cash then it was available for points. It has only been since August 18, 2018 when the loyalty programs were merged that this newfound ability has been utilized at the legacy-Starwood properties. And it appears there are still some that are just now realizing this ability exists.
 

kds4

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
401
Points
293
Location
USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Weeks and DC Points
This ability has only been historically at the legacy-Marriott properties. Starwood's policy was that if a basic/traditional room was available for cash then it was available for points. It has only been since August 18, 2018 when the loyalty programs were merged that this newfound ability has been utilized at the legacy-Starwood properties. And it appears there are still some that are just now realizing this ability exists.

I see. While I had both SPG and Marriott status pre-merger, I wasn't aware SPG utilized their inventory controls over points availability differently than Marriott did/does.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
2,875
Reaction score
3,501
Points
448
Location
Plano, Texas
The whole purpose of loyalty programs is to keep the customer coming back. This goes all the way back to trading stamps. . . . (I go back that far - barely!)

To provide an incentive to keep the customer from continually hunting for "the best deal", among multiple vendors, the next time. Sort of like hanging a carrot just out of reach for a plow animal.

Once you have gotten into a incentive system, then you are much less likely to leave it, because that means losing the partial incentive already built up. Often you are not even tempted to look at competing prices for a similar product.

Just remember this, the vendors doing the incentive program has every incentive to over-promise and under-deliver on those loyalty programs. Every "under delivery" means more profit to the vendor. The trick for the vendor is to not "under deliver" to the point where a major number of customers decide that in the long haul the "system" is not competitive with other systems, or with going back to looking for the most competitive price for the goods involved....
 

pianodinosaur

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
1,965
Reaction score
239
Points
273
Location
Texas
Resorts Owned
HGVC SeaWorld x 2, HGVC Las Vegas Strip x 2, MVC Mountain Valley Lodge, MVC Legend’s Edge
HGVC has been a timeshare points system ever since I joined in 2001. That is how I got into the Hhonors hotel customer loyalty program. I had been in the Marriott’s Rewards Program and Starwood’s Preferred program prior to purchasing my first timeshare with Hilton. Whenever Hhonors had a point devaluation the value of converting my HGVC timeshare points into Hhonors points diminished.

I now own two MVC weeks and will not convert them to DC points due to the way the system is structured. However, Every devaluation of Bonvoy points will decrease the value of converting DC points into Bonvoy points.
 

kds4

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
401
Points
293
Location
USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Weeks and DC Points
The whole purpose of loyalty programs is to keep the customer coming back. This goes all the way back to trading stamps. . . . (I go back that far - barely!)

To provide an incentive to keep the customer from continually hunting for "the best deal", among multiple vendors, the next time. Sort of like hanging a carrot just out of reach for a plow animal.

Once you have gotten into a incentive system, then you are much less likely to leave it, because that means losing the partial incentive already built up. Often you are not even tempted to look at competing prices for a similar product.

Just remember this, the vendors doing the incentive program has every incentive to over-promise and under-deliver on those loyalty programs. Every "under delivery" means more profit to the vendor. The trick for the vendor is to not "under deliver" to the point where a major number of customers decide that in the long haul the "system" is not competitive with other systems, or with going back to looking for the most competitive price for the goods involved....

Ha! Don't even get me started on my S&H Green Stamps now ... :D

s-l1600.jpg
 

Fasttr

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
6,260
Reaction score
3,401
Points
498
Location
Connecticut
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Ocean (Enrolled)
MVC Trust Points
However, Every devaluation of Bonvoy points will decrease the value of converting DC points into Bonvoy points.
Actually, the weeks owners have been hit harder with the MR/Bonvoy points devaluation. Weeks to Bonvoy points conversion is fixed and to my knowledge has never changed. In comparison, DC points started out in 2010 as 1 DC point = 32 MR points. That conversion was increased a year or so ago and is now a 1:40 conversion ratio (a 25% improvement). Still not a good value, but they did at least make an attempt at recasting the conversion ratio to reflect the devaluing MR/Bonvoy points.
 
Last edited:
Top