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ADA Service Animals

Sandy VDH

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With a state (was it AL?) now passing a law, OK only a misdemeanor with no real consequences but at least a start, I just noticed a new sign today at costco. Wish I would have taken a picture, but alas I did not.

The sign explains Costco's rules and definitions on what an ADA Service Animal is and what it is NOT and expressly prohibits "emotional support" animals from its list. It expressly prohibits them from riding in carts.

Yeah for Costco.

This wide spread abuse by many claiming emotional support animals as Service Animals has driven me mad. I have had a dog, in a ladies arm at check in a hotel, launch at me and try to bite me, despite the fact that I did nothing and did not actually move. The lady carrying the dog walked too close to me. This is NOT a service animal although she claimed it was. Service animals are trained and behave well.

Just don't get me started.
 

Sandy VDH

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turkel

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Sandy, I am with you. The animals everywhere has gotten way out of hand. Hopefully the pendulum is swinging back to no animals allowed.
 

WVBaker

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Sandy, I am with you. The animals everywhere has gotten way out of hand. Hopefully the pendulum is swinging back to no animals allowed.

So, should we include ADA Service Animals in that "no animals allowed"?
 

Luanne

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So, should we include ADA Service Animals in that "no animals allowed"?
I would think that exceptions should be made for true service animals.
 

isisdave

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Why not have Service Animals certified by a government agency, or someone appointed by the government (like where I live, Animal Control and licensing services are from a private non-profit contracted by the county). Issue them some sort of "license plate" that can be attached to their harness (or bridle ...) that can be seen easily.
 

WVBaker

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Why not have Service Animals certified by a government agency, or someone appointed by the government (like where I live, Animal Control and licensing services are from a private non-profit contracted by the county). Issue them some sort of "license plate" that can be attached to their harness (or bridle ...) that can be seen easily.

As this falls under the enforcement of each state, some states are changing their laws.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...new-laws-crack-down-fake-service-dogs-n871541

"Last month, Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton, a Democrat, signed into law a bill making it illegal for people to misrepresent their pets as service animals, under which pet-loving perps are subject to a $100 fine and a misdemeanor charge. Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey, a Republican, signed a nearly identical bill, under which those who "fraudulently misrepresent" service animals can be
fined $250"


You can check your state laws here.

https://usaservicedogregistration.com/service-dog-state-laws/
 

geist1223

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True service animals can not be prohibited from stores, restaurants, hotels, timeshares, etc, etc. There is no required paperwork or license for a service animal. The business can ask 2 questions: 1. It this a trained service animal (dog or pony); 2. What task is the service animal trained to preform for the owner.
 

turkel

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So, should we include ADA Service Animals in that "no animals allowed"?

Ugh....No.

But you should not be able to bring your pet to a hospital and let it sh*t on the floor and expect me to clean it up!

Service animals are trained to provide a service. They don’t bite or relieve themselves in inappropriate places, and as much as I hate dogs and their idiotic owners service animals are NOT pets and by law are allowed anywhere their owner needs them, they are not in the same category as well you know.

Sorry, you can’t shame me for not liking dogs. I am loud and proud on that topic. As an officer I would imagine on all other topics you would think people should follow rules and laws why are pets an exception?
 

tschwa2

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True service animals can not be prohibited from stores, restaurants, hotels, timeshares, etc, etc. There is no required paperwork or license for a service animal. The business can ask 2 questions: 1. It this a trained service animal (dog or pony); 2. What task is the service animal trained to preform for the owner.

As excerpted from U.S. Code of Federal Regulations § 36.202, there are two instances cited in federal law where a business may exclude a Service Dog:

  1. The Service Dog is out of control and the handler isn’t doing anything about it
  2. The Service Dog isn’t housebroken and urinates or defecates inappropriately
 

pedro47

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Question ? Does anyone, feel when an individual is carrying a service dog / animal in their arms, allowing that service dog / animal to bark or snap at an individual; plus, that disable person is pushing that service dog / animal in a carriage.

What service is this animal providing to the disable person ?

Does that animal meets the standards of a true service dog / animal ??
 

turkel

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Question ? Does anyone, feel when an individual is carrying a service dog / animal in their arms, allowing that service dog / animal to bark or snap at an individual; plus, that disable person is pushing that service dog / animal in a carriage.

What service is this animal providing to the disable person ?

Does that animal meets the standards of a true service dog / animal ??

No, those are pets not working service animals.
 

tschwa2

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Question ? Does anyone, feel when an individual is carrying a service dog / animal in their arms, allowing that service dog / animal to bark or snap at an individual; plus, that disable person is pushing that service dog / animal in a carriage.

What service is this animal providing to the disable person ?

Does that animal meets the standards of a true service dog / animal ??
I have read articles about service animals that are trained to notify their owner that they are about to have a seizure by smelling the persons breath and need to either be held or placed in a shopping basket in proximity to the person's face.

Another piece of the the service animal situation is owners should be trained (and the should be but aren't always) to treat the service animal as a working assistant instead of a pet when in places where pets are not allowed. If you are petting the dog constantly and dress it in an outfit that matches yours and pushing it in a baby carriage and encouraging others to pet your dog and make a big deal over it or feeding it off the owners plate, the owner is treating it like a pet and that is why others will assume they are travelling with their pet. When the dog is working (which is anytime you bring it to places where pets are not allowed) it should act like a trained disability assistant and should be treated that way by its owner.

In school situations, certain disabled students are allowed assistants or note takers. But if they start being overly affectionate (kissing and touching) during class and are acting like friend and not professional assistants it will be assumed to be a friend and not eligible for special provisions. I think of the stereotypical old man with a "nurse" in a miniskirt and low cut top and the man keeps smacking her in the butt. Even if she is a nurse that isn't professional behavior. Although the law does not address this about service animals, I believe it is to the benefit to the owner to do this so that others are less likely to assume their dog (or miniature horse) is just a pet.
 

PigsDad

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There is no required paperwork or license for a service animal.
And that is the root problem, IMO. Why is no paperwork or licensing required??? In order for a person to get a handicap parking placard, they need to go through a registration process AND be able to provide the paperwork upon request. Why not for service animals? What "rights" are being infringed upon in requiring this documentation?

The government really screwed up (more than usual) when they put the service animal laws and regulations together.

Kurt
 

clifffaith

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Question ? Does anyone, feel when an individual is carrying a service dog / animal in their arms, allowing that service dog / animal to bark or snap at an individual; plus, that disable person is pushing that service dog / animal in a carriage.

What service is this animal providing to the disable person ?

Does that animal meets the standards of a true service dog / animal ??

As far as carrying the service dog, we met a lady at Kaanapali Beach Club a few years ago who had a sling with a little dog in it around her neck. I'm sure we didn't say "why do you have a dog here?", but probably commented on how sweet he was and she volunteered he was her blood sugar monitor. I've never seen a story about a dog being able to tell when blood sugar gets out of wack, but have seen several about dogs who can smell cancer or can warn an epileptic they are about to have a seizure, so I hope she wasn't just lugging her dog around her neck for no reason. Looked like it would be uncomfortably warm for both of them in Hawaii. BTW, she was a docent with one of the whale groups and came to Maui for several months every whale season.
 

turkel

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OMG watching a little too much porn with the nurse analogy (sorry but your stereotyping based on some perverts dream of a nurse not an actual nurse), you had me on board but you just jumped the shark Fonzi.
 

Luanne

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As far as carrying the service dog, we met a lady at Kaanapali Beach Club a few years ago who had a sling with a little dog in it around her neck. I'm sure we didn't say "why do you have a dog here?", but probably commented on how sweet he was and she volunteered he was her blood sugar monitor. I've never seen a story about a dog being able to tell when blood sugar gets out of wack, but have seen several about dogs who can smell cancer or can warn an epileptic they are about to have a seizure, so I hope she wasn't just lugging her dog around her neck for no reason. Looked like it would be uncomfortably warm for both of them in Hawaii. BTW, she was a docent with one of the whale groups and came to Maui for several months every whale season.
Actually I saw something recently about a man who had a service dog who could tell when his blood sugar was off. He said he still had to test himself, but the dog gave him some advance warning.
 

Sandy VDH

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allowing that service dog / animal to bark or snap at an individual; plus, that disable person is pushing that service dog / animal in a carriage.

Does that animal meets the standards of a true service dog / animal ??

Misbehaving badly, NOT a service animal. Needs to pushed or in a carriage, NOT a service animal.

Not sure what is up with the Diabetes lady another poster mentioned, as most of the sites that offer Diabetes dogs, are offering the following Dog breeds trained to perform diabetic alert dog duties can include:

  • golden retrievers
  • Labrador retrievers
  • mixed sporting dog breeds
  • poodles
You are not carrying one of those dogs around your neck. So their sense of smell is great and they are trained for your smell that you give off 15 to 30 minutes before an drop happens. They also want the dog to brace if you fall, or get dizzy. A small dog is not going to help at all with that. So why she had to carry a dog that has good scenting and is trained to do this, that sounds a bit funny to me. Have a Diabetic alert dog, covered by ADA totally legit. Carrying them, not so legit from my research. How was the dog behaving, perhaps the poster who saw that dog. I do not know but it is not the normal for service dog trainers to pick that kind of dog.
 
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WVBaker

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Ugh....No.

But you should not be able to bring your pet to a hospital and let it sh*t on the floor and expect me to clean it up!

Service animals are trained to provide a service. They don’t bite or relieve themselves in inappropriate places, and as much as I hate dogs and their idiotic owners service animals are NOT pets and by law are allowed anywhere their owner needs them, they are not in the same category as well you know.

Sorry, you can’t shame me for not liking dogs. I am loud and proud on that topic. As an officer I would imagine on all other topics you would think people should follow rules and laws why are pets an exception?

It was more of a rhetorical question, but nonetheless.

First and foremost, no one is shaming you for not liking dogs. Be as "loud and proud" as you feel the need to be, on this or any other topic. Some people simply don't like dogs, as other simply don't like cats, etc. We could go through the entire list of pets that people have. I don't think I would go as far as to say I "hate their idiotic owners". Are some irresponsible, of course.

I agree with you, service animals are highly trained and provide an invaluable service to those in need. All pets are not service animals, just as all service animals may not perhaps be pets. Service animals, by the truest definition and by the ADA's own description are working animals, not pets. The owner may consider it a pet and that's great!

Oh yea, just to let you know and put you as ease, I for one will not bring my pet to a hospital "and let it sh*t on the floor and expect" you "to clean it up".
 

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We love dogs. We had 2 Corgis. When they aged out we got a GSP. But we believe that the service animal rules should be strictly followed and strictly enforced. We do not believe assistance (psychological or otherwise) should ever be granted the privileges of a service animal. A person with a true service animal should be trained and know it is not a pet. Nor should strangers approach a service animal and treat it like a pet.
 

heathpack

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Misbehaving badly, NOT a service animal. Needs to pushed or in a carriage, NOT a service animal.

Not sure what is up with the Diabetes lady another poster mentioned, as most of the sites that offer Diabetes dogs, are offering the following Dog breeds trained to perform diabetic alert dog duties can include:

  • golden retrievers
  • Labrador retrievers
  • mixed sporting dog breeds
  • poodles
You are not carrying one of those dogs around your neck. So their sense of smell is great and they are trained for your smell that you give off 15 to 30 minutes before an drop happens. They also want the dog to brace if you fall, or get dizzy. A small dog is not going to help at all with that. So why she had to carry a dog that has good scenting and is trained to do this, that sounds a bit funny to me. Have a Diabetic alert dog, covered by ADA totally legit. Carrying them, not so legit from my research. How was the dog behaving, perhaps the poster who saw that dog. I do not know but it is not the normal for service dog trainers to pick that kind of dog.

I did emergency spinal surgery once on a little 20ish pound mixed breed dog named Kenny. Kenny of course can walk on the floor but he also rides on his owners lap in her wheelchair. You might look at him and assume because he’s cute and small and in a lap that he’s a fake service dog. But Kenny is the real deal. Part of his job is detecting low blood sugar in his owner. She’s not diabetic but has an inherited genetic defect that can make her blood sugar low.

Kenny’s part of what makes it possible for his owner to live a somewhat independent life and go to college.

He and his family actually live in Kansas. He became my patient as an emergency when his owner was in LA to see her specialist who helps manage her genetic disorder. The family was back in LA this year (they see the specialist annually) so they dropped by the clinic. Such nice people and Kenny is an awesome little dog. It makes me a little sad to think some people probably make negative assumptions about Kenny and his people.
 

Sandy VDH

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Kenny of course can walk on the floor but he also rides on his owners lap in her wheelchair. You might look at him and assume because he’s cute and small and in a lap that he’s a fake service dog.

It makes me a little sad to think some people probably make negative assumptions about Kenny and his people.

Not trying to make negative assumptions, as there are always exceptions. Being in a wheelchair you are not likely going to need to dog for a lean or stability situation. Riding on a person lap is very different than a sling on an able bodied person neck or being pushed around in a cart. There are differences for logical purposes.

Really supportive of REAL ADA service dogs. Just am sick and tired of all the fake ones making it harder for real ones. In the situation where the poster talked about the women with the dog in a sling. I did make reasonable guesses about the situation. I did say it sounded odd.

Having been barked at, snarled at, lunged at and nearly bit by several different so called "Service Dogs" over the years, lets just say I have a healthy skepticism about some of them. And I am an animal lover and a lot of animals really like me. But let their behaviors speak for themselves.

I had a wonderful and very well trained and behaved Therapy Dog, who has now passed. He was NOT a Service Animal either but certainly better trained then a lot of the owners (LOL and their dogs ) that I am referring to. The type that believe that laws don't apply to them.

I am sure Kenny is a wonderful service dog.
 
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We love dogs. We had 2 Corgis. When they aged out we got a GSP. But we believe that the service animal rules should be strictly followed and strictly enforced. We do not believe assistance (psychological or otherwise) should ever be granted the privileges of a service animal. A person with a true service animal should be trained and know it is not a pet. Nor should strangers approach a service animal and treat it like a pet.

I suppose it depends on who enforces the 'strict enforcement" of all the various state laws concerning what is a true or false service animal.
I can see strict enforcement for airline travel but for grocery stores and Home Depot - not so much
 
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