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Looking for pros/cons for Westin Flex (and Aventuras)

DannyTS

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I'm not clear on your point: Are you saying that Lagunamar will rent for 3 times maintenance fee, but Maui and other resorts won't?
No, I want to be clear about that. I saw many listings in your comment that were at 3 times the MF (one at 3.5 times) and that is not reasonable. My point was that just because they will not rent, it does not mean that a reasonable listing won't.
 
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DeniseM

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So you are saying that neither Lagunamar or Maui, or other Vistana resorts will rent for 3 x maintenance fee - I agree!

With the exception of some Maui Christmas/New Years weeks - but those are not the norm.
 

DannyTS

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So, it sounds like you have never rented your Lagunamar timeshare?
I am not sure why the answer to that question is so important to you that you have asked 3 times (so far). @byeloe mentioned that she/he rented few times at twice the MF so it cannot be that bad, certainly not as bad as you initially made it sound.
 

DannyTS

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So you are saying that neither Lagunamar or Maui, or other Vistana resorts will rent for 3 x maintenance fee - I agree!

With the exception of some Maui Christmas/New Years weeks - but those are not the norm.
really? I see many Maui Christmas and New Years listings at twice the MF so they will probably end up renting at less or not at all.
 
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DeniseM

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I am not sure why the answer to that question is so important to you that you have asked 3 times (so far). @byeloe mentioned that she/he rented few times at twice the MF so it cannot be that bad, certainly not as bad as you initially made it sound.

It's important, because you are asserting that it's easy to rent them with no experience and no evidence to back it up. I hope yours is easy to rent and I hope you will get a good rental rate. Please let us know how it goes after you have done it once.
 

CPNY

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Great job on your rentals - impressive! I agree that sometimes Redweek Ads don't get taken down. But in most cases, if you have a popular rental, you will be getting bombarded with inquiries and you will either take the Ad down to stop the emails, or you get a notification from Redweek that people are complaining about you, because you didn't take your Ad down. So my guess is that the majority of the listings are still active.
I also feel like redweek has declined. I used to get inquiries from people constantly. Nothing has changed in my listings, same resorts, same prices. Actually that’s changed, prices lowered below maint fee and nothing. I see tons of listings and not one rented anywhere. Their admin prices have gone way up.
 

DannyTS

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@DeniseM I will just say that we have bought a 3rd Lagunamar week recently so I am confident that it is a terrific resort from all points of view: usage, rental and exchange. We will agree to disagree.
 
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DeniseM

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But let's not lose sight of the original question: Should the OP buy Westin Flex or Aventurous - from the developer! Which is a completely different thing than buying resale like you did. So I think we got off-track here a bit, and I hope that you and I can agree that the OP should not buy from the developer.
 

DeniseM

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Their admin prices have gone way up.
What Admin prices? Full service?
 

blondietink

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I have never rented our our Lagunamar week, but just looking at the chart you posted, it would seem that people don't want to go to Mexico during Christmas week, but the after Christmas week looks more promising as far as renting out.
 

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I am not sure why the answer to that question is so important to you that you have asked 3 times (so far). @byeloe mentioned that she/he rented few times at twice the MF so it cannot be that bad, certainly not as bad as you initially made it sound.
Yes a couple were pretty late, and with very few inquiries. I have split my unit and rented the 1 bedroom and studio separately. High demand weeks. Week 11 two years back, Wk 10 and 11 in 2019(studio for $1295 and 1 Bedroom for $1465 very late 4-6 weeks before check-in.)
Then nearly 1 year out(I was on the beach this past march at Royal Islander when I received the inquiry), I rented wk7(president's) for 2020(studio for $1400 and 1Bd for $1750). It definitely hasn't been easy.
 

DeniseM

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I have never rented our our Lagunamar week, but just looking at the chart you posted, it would seem that people don't want to go to Mexico during Christmas week, but the after Christmas week looks more promising as far as renting out.

The demand on the chart (highest level) is the same for week 51 (Christmas) and week 52 (New Years.)
 

byeloe

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I have never rented our our Lagunamar week, but just looking at the chart you posted, it would seem that people don't want to go to Mexico during Christmas week, but the after Christmas week looks more promising as far as renting out.
It is difficult to make those reservations also
 

DeniseM

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But weren't 50% (?) of the week 51 and 52 deeds sold as fixed event weeks which are automatically reserved for the owners?
 

DannyTS

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Yes a couple were pretty late, and with very few inquiries. I have split my unit and rented the 1 bedroom and studio separately. High demand weeks. Week 11 two years back, Wk 10 and 11 in 2019(studio for $1295 and 1 Bedroom for $1465 very late 4-6 weeks before check-in.)
Then nearly 1 year out(I was on the beach this past march at Royal Islander when I received the inquiry), I rented wk7(president's) for 2020(studio for $1400 and 1Bd for $1750). It definitely hasn't been easy.

From my calculation you rented at about 2.1 times the MF. Surprisingly, on a relative basis, the studios did better than the 1 bdr. I understand it was not like a sizzling market but it is a far cry from what Denise was suggesting initially that it is totally useless. We also have to keep things in prospective. I think the vast majority of the timeshares rent at or bellow MF. Anybody reading her comments would think that is the case at Lagunamar. WLR was in the top 5 rentals according to Redweek a couple of years ago although I do not think it made the list last year.

The demand on the chart (highest level) is the same for week 51 (Christmas) and week 52 (New Years.)

IMHO sometimes the highest demand weeks can be a trap for owners: everybody books those with high expectation but they realize that there are just too many listings for those weeks. This can be particularly problematic if the plane tickets are already sold out or too expensive.

Looking at the broader picture, I think that Lagunamar is well positioned for the future. Mexico has a growing middle class that is starting to afford a beach vacation at a Westin resort. Not during the prime season yet but that may change one day. In October we met there quite a few people from the region but virtually none in the spring.
I also think that overall Lagunamar may be less negatively influenced by a recession in the US. In bad times some may cut down on the travel expenses and may opt for cheaper alternatives.
Lastly, if Marriott does start an overlay, the demand for internal exchanges at WLR will only go up IMO (currently the average occupancy is 92% which is not bad at all given the slow months of the year in the mix). That will make it even more attractive and will reduce the pool of rental listings.

I do not want to leave the impression that people should buy Lagunamar for the rental potential. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Buy where you want to travel is sound TUG advice.
 
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DannyTS

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But let's not lose sight of the original question: Should the OP buy Westin Flex or Aventurous - from the developer! Which is a completely different thing than buying resale like you did. So I think we got off-track here a bit, and I hope that you and I can agree that the OP should not buy from the developer.
I see absolutely no reason for him to do that. Even if he only owns gold season (and i doubt since it is harder to get to elite 5 with those), he would need too many years to recoup the initial cost from the decrease in MF .
 

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What Admin prices? Full service?
Yes, also prices to list and membership. Most people who may be new to renting timeshares are hesitant to spend 30 bucks to message an owner about a listing.
 

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@DannyTS (my first rentals were for below 2x approx $4000 for a 2bd and a 1 bd) I hope your analysis for the future is correct. We originally bought because we thought the supply of non AI was shrinking with the sale of the Royal Mayan and pending for Royal Caribbean at the time, that having since changed. Purchased 2 EOY 2bd in 2017. Hoping to spend more time there when I retire in a few years, decided to pick up 2 more units, an annual and an eoy. I will be happy if I can continue to rent half the unit to cover the MF.
I am not sure if the problems in Jamaica and Dominican Republic will increase demand in Cancun or not(since cancun has its own perceived negatives) but in any case we love Cancun and are happy to use all our weeks there if renting doesn't work out
 

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I have rented my Lagunamar weeks many times since 2011, I own 5 of them. However lately the rental bookings come later, bur still at very decent margins. It all depends on the weeks. Most success comes from Pres week, and 51, 52 ( if you can book them in the first place).

Markus
 

DannyTS

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I also feel like redweek has declined. I used to get inquiries from people constantly. Nothing has changed in my listings, same resorts, same prices. Actually that’s changed, prices lowered below maint fee and nothing. I see tons of listings and not one rented anywhere. Their admin prices have gone way up.
I agree with you, the Redweek model is broken. One cannot browse the listings without registering, it probably reduces the potential traffic by 90%. This was discussed before, I do not know why they do not change it. I am OK with the potential renters and buyers registering TO CONTACT the owners but not before. Ridiculous IMO.
 
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CPNY

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I agree with you, the Redweek model is broken. One cannot browse the listing without registering, this probably reduces the traffic by 90%. This was discussed before, I do not know why they do not change it. I am OK with the potential renters and buyers registering TO CONTACT the owners but not before. Ridiculous IMO.
Registering is one thing, paying to contact is another. I tell people who aren’t familiar with renting timeshares about it all the time and I say “red-week but you have to pay, so go to tug marketplace”. They need to change it
 

DannyTS

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going back to Lagunamar as an example, Cancun will host 7 million foreign tourists in 2019 and the number keeps on going up. Provided that @DeniseM is partly right about the Redweek listings, it is more that the potential renters do not find the owners rather than a lack of demand.

On Expedia a 2 bedroom at Lagunamar for March of 2020 is
- non-refundable $4900 tax in (I added a 1 bdr and a studio since they do not list them together)
-free cancelation $6000 tax in

Somebody is buying , I guess. By the way Laguanamar is reporting 1/3 of the occupancy is made up of renters and 2/3 owners and exchanges so I am pretty sure there is demand even at these prices.

In conclusion if Redweek does not capture a significant number of deals it is a pity for them and the owners who may just pay listing fees for few potential renters.
 
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DavidnRobin

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UltraPremium weeks only 3-4 weeks out of 52 - so the value comparison can be skewed.
If just focusingon renting - why not buy WKV Plat - relatively easy to get 2.5x Rental - a M resort so comes with SOs - a great resort - resale value should hold - and in US.

Airbnb is hurting TS rentals.
 

CPNY

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UltraPremium weeks only 3-4 weeks out of 52 - so the value comparison can be skewed.
If just focusingon renting - why not buy WKV Plat - relatively easy to get 2.5x Rental - a M resort so comes with SOs - a great resort - resale value should hold - and in US.

Airbnb is hurting TS rentals.
Yeah, airbnb is def hurting rentals I agree with that.
 
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