Honda to Subaru for AWD

[davidvel]

These two links will explain the Audi/Subaru permanent 4WD systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_(four-wheel-drive_system)
Symmetrical_All_Wheel_Drive

If you were referring to my last statement about those drive systems being the safest, you'll just have to educate yourself about the various peculiarities of how car manufacturers transmit engine power to the wheels. Once you understand the differences there is no question which system is the safest.

Sorry this was what I was referring to: " In a Honda or any vehicle sold in the US with the exception of Quattro Audi's and all Subaru's only two of those four wheels are driving the car."

 

[Tia]

I'm feeling better after reading all the comments about making a change, thanks all!

 

[Ironwood]

In the past 10 years I have shopped for a Subaru twice, couldn't get a deal from the sole dealer locally and ended up with two well negotiated secondary choices. They would not dicker much off list, and financing was at the high end of all vehicles that I looked at. Great vehicles, high owner satisfaction, but it's cult like moniker means you pay top dollar. Don't know how pricey service might be relative to other auto dealers. Will be looking for a small or mid size sport utility next year and I'll have another go at Subaru.

 

[Beachclubmum]

In the past 10 years I have shopped for a Subaru twice, couldn't get a deal from the sole dealer locally and ended up with two well negotiated secondary choices. They would not dicker much off list, and financing was at the high end of all vehicles that I looked at. Great vehicles, high owner satisfaction, but it's cult like moniker means you pay top dollar. Don't know how pricey service might be relative to other auto dealers. Will be looking for a small or mid size sport utility next year and I'll have another go at Subaru.

When we were shopping in first quarter 2018 Subaru was offering 0% financing. This worked out well for us as I put both myself and my one year to graduation DS on the loan, with the understanding that we would pay the first year and he would take over the payments when he started his post-grad job. It also allowed him to build a credit history.

I tried to do due diligence in shopping for the best deal. The Costco discount with our local dealer was a joke. I finally ended up buying from a dealer a couple of hours away, thanks to the SubaruForester forums website. People there list what they pay, and I was able to track down a dealer someone there used and got a similar price. We paid a bit over $25k total for a mid level (non leather) Forester with all the safety things and a few accessories. There's also a dealer listed there that will sell you an extended warranty at cost.

 

[bluehende]

In the past 10 years I have shopped for a Subaru twice, couldn't get a deal from the sole dealer locally and ended up with two well negotiated secondary choices. They would not dicker much off list, and financing was at the high end of all vehicles that I looked at. Great vehicles, high owner satisfaction, but it's cult like moniker means you pay top dollar. Don't know how pricey service might be relative to other auto dealers. Will be looking for a small or mid size sport utility next year and I'll have another go at Subaru.

This is what we have found too. Over the years our local dealer is either 3000 over list of at list. I have always considered one but with the difference in price it is just too expensive.

 

[jimf41]

Sorry this was what I was referring to: " In a Honda or any vehicle sold in the US with the exception of Quattro Audi's and all Subaru's only two of those four wheels are driving the car."

This article explains it nicely.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/awd-vs-4wd-whats-the-difference-and-which-to-choose.html

 

[jimf41]

My 1999 Toyota Landcruiser is 4WD all the time. Once had a big fight in the car with DH about this...he said it was AWD and I said no, it's 4WD and there is a difference, because 4WD is constant.

The gas mileage it gets is horrible but the sticking power on the road is magnificent. BTW, I finally quit arguing with him (I knew I was right) and he later came back after doing research to tell me I was correct (though now that I think about it he never did admit to being wrong, haha). Anyway, 4WD is the best!

Not so sure this is permanent full time 4WD. In Audi/Subaru there are no buttons, switches or other means to select a different type of 4WD ie. low or high. The land cruiser that year seems to employ the braking system with an AWD system to improve traction. At any rate this is not what I would consider a vehicle for around town use unless you lived in a mountainous area with little or no paved roads.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-trac-101.537946/#post7146543

 

[Beachclubmum]

Not so sure this is permanent full time 4WD. In Audi/Subaru there are no buttons, switches or other means to select a different type of 4WD ie. low or high. The land cruiser that year seems to employ the braking system with an AWD system to improve traction. At any rate this is not what I would consider a vehicle for around town use unless you lived in a mountainous area with little or no paved roads.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-trac-101.537946/#post7146543

It calls itself a 4WD, so I assume that's what it is. It came with the added towing package (including extra cooling stuff in the engine compartment). I love it around town! I can seat 8 people in there! Even fully loaded it can accelerate easily going uphill on the freeway...I blow everyone away. Right now it's doing a fabulous job of hauling, as we move one child into the dorms and another child out of her apartment and across the country. People try to buy it from me regularly....it's in near perfect condition, inside and out. It had its 20th birthday in February and has 312,000 miles.

 

[Chrispee]

I think a little clarification on the term AWD is in order. AWD means that all four wheels are able to propel the vehicle. In a Honda or any vehicle sold in the US with the exception of Quattro Audi's and all Subaru's only two of those four wheels are driving the car. Each wheel on an axel can propel but not both at once. Audi's and Subaru's have a system that uses a special clutch that allows all four wheels to propel all the time. When negotiating a curve the outside wheels spin faster than the inside wheels so the car turns smoothly rather than jerk around the turn like a 4WD locked in 4WD.

To sum up, Audi's and Subaru's have the safest drive systems of any car in the US.

Although I agree that Audi’s Quattro and Subaru’s Symmetrical AWD systems are two of the best, I believe your post is fairly inaccurate. There are some reactive AWD systems that send 100% of power to the front or rear wheels until wheel slip is detected (Honda, Mazda etc) but there are also others that have full time AWD (BMW, Mercedes, Acura).

Can you clarify what you meant by “In a Honda or any vehicle sold in the US with the exception of Quattro Audi's and all Subaru's only two of those four wheels are driving the car“?

 

[Gypsy65]

In the past 10 years I have shopped for a Subaru twice, couldn't get a deal from the sole dealer locally and ended up with two well negotiated secondary choices. They would not dicker much off list, and financing was at the high end of all vehicles that I looked at. Great vehicles, high owner satisfaction, but it's cult like moniker means you pay top dollar. Don't know how pricey service might be relative to other auto dealers. Will be looking for a small or mid size sport utility next year and I'll have another go at Subaru.

I would assume that if dealers are holding gross that you would then do the same when you sell or trade

 

[Ironwood]

I would assume that if dealers are holding gross that you would then do the same when you sell or trade

Yes....black/blue book prices seem to hold as well as any manufacturer, and for a lifelong Subaru owners it may work out well. I just can't bring myself to pay full or near full sticker price for any vehicle no matter how desirable!

 

[davidvel]

In the past 10 years I have shopped for a Subaru twice, couldn't get a deal from the sole dealer locally and ended up with two well negotiated secondary choices. They would not dicker much off list, and financing was at the high end of all vehicles that I looked at. Great vehicles, high owner satisfaction, but it's cult like moniker means you pay top dollar. Don't know how pricey service might be relative to other auto dealers. Will be looking for a small or mid size sport utility next year and I'll have another go at Subaru.

This is what we have found too. Over the years our local dealer is either 3000 over list of at list. I have always considered one but with the difference in price it is just too expensive.

I bought a 3.6 Limited outback last year. $4,000+ off MSRP and 0% financing. I've found the best way to get low pricing is to use the internet quote after finding the stock you want at various dealers.

 

[davidvel]

This article explains it nicely.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/awd-vs-4wd-whats-the-difference-and-which-to-choose.html

Well we still disagree. I've owned other (non-Audi or Subaru) 4WD/AWD cars and all have the ability to send power to all 4 wheels. Nothing in my experience nor the article linked to establish that other than those 2 models, 2 wheels on an axle can't both have power. I'm not sure where that notion came from.

 

[bluehende]

I would assume that if dealers are holding gross that you would then do the same when you sell or trade

We keep cars for a long time. The depreciation also applies to that premium. A 10 yr old subuaru is worth more than a 10 yr old nissan but the dollar amount is small in comparison to the difference in the original purchase.

 

[bluehende]

I bought a 3.6 Limited outback last year. $4,000+ off MSRP and 0% financing. I've found the best way to get low pricing is to use the internet quote after finding the stock you want at various dealers.

That is nice. I looked two years ago. The premium was 300 bucks and I feel with some effort may have been able to get it for list. I imagine there are regional differences.

 

[silentg]

On our vacation last week we had a Subaru Crosstrek. We liked driving it, good mileage and we drove in the mountains a lot.
At home we have a Jeep Compass which is fine since there are no mountains in Florida.
Silentg

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

.

Subaru Forester Website for anyone who may be interested in reading or joining:


www.SubaruForester.org




.

 

[Gypsy65]

On our vacation last week we had a Subaru Crosstrek. We liked driving it, good mileage and we drove in the mountains a lot.
At home we have a Jeep Compass which is fine since there are no mountains in Florida.
Silentg

There’s a hill in Florida
I think it may be an old dump??

We moved here in ‘08 and I’ve been trying to move out ever since
Almost there!!

I ride and people in Florida keep telling me to take a trip to the hill!!
What???

 

[davidvel]

That is nice. I looked two years ago. The premium was 300 bucks and I feel with some effort may have been able to get it for list. I imagine there are regional differences.

We're in So. California. I received multiple quotes online through the internet pricing button, all within $1000 of the others. There was one few hundred less but was further away, and I knew people at the dealership I ended up with (they matched the other dealer's price that was lower than theirs).

 

[jimf41]

Although I agree that Audi’s Quattro and Subaru’s Symmetrical AWD systems are two of the best, I believe your post is fairly inaccurate. There are some reactive AWD systems that send 100% of power to the front or rear wheels until wheel slip is detected (Honda, Mazda etc) but there are also others that have full time AWD (BMW, Mercedes, Acura).

Can you clarify what you meant by “In a Honda or any vehicle sold in the US with the exception of Quattro Audi's and all Subaru's only two of those four wheels are driving the car“?

in an Audi or Subaru there is no "...until wheel slip is detected". BMW has something called XDRIVE, you have to push a button to activate it therefore not permanent, irrevocable 4WD. Subaru has it too but it has no effect on the basic drive system it's a electro-magnetical feature the controls ES{ and braking.

I didn't respond to this thread to argue. If you think your vehicle has full time 4WD that's fine, I won't disagree anymore.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

My daughter just bought a Honda CRV AWD after looking at Subarus (her first choice initially) and Toyota Rav4's. While she really wanted a Crosstrek, the cargo space in the Honda was a better fit for their climbing crashpads (and I believe that the seats folded flat, iirc, so that they could sleep in the back in a pinch. A glimpse into the mind of a climber). But one very surprising deal breaker in the Crosstrek for her was that the seats in the premium model were stitched with orange thread. She hates orange and this wasn't something that could be changed, lol. She still test drove it and claimed to like the Honda better, but I still think that it was the orange stitching was the true issue. For some reason she wouldn't even consider the Forester, and she thought that the Outback was too big. But she loves the Honda, so in the end, that's all that matters.

I would love a Subaru but the seats are uncomfortable for me (as are the Honda and the Toyota for that matter) so I have no idea what my next car will be. Another trip to Carmax to try sitting in every model before I can narrow down my search.

I’m in the process of deciding on a Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander as both of these will last 10+ years by taking care of them

 

[Chrispee]

in an Audi or Subaru there is no "...until wheel slip is detected". BMW has something called XDRIVE, you have to push a button to activate it therefore not permanent, irrevocable 4WD. Subaru has it too but it has no effect on the basic drive system it's a electro-magnetical feature the controls ES{ and braking.

I didn't respond to this thread to argue. If you think your vehicle has full time 4WD that's fine, I won't disagree anymore.

I'm not here to argue either, I'm just trying to correct misinformation (as have other people in regards to your original post). You have since doubled down on your original misinformation by saying xDrive requires a button to be pushed. This is also false; xDrive is full time AWD and doesn't require any activation. I know this because I have owned a BMW with xDrive.

As I stated before there are other car AWD systems that are full time. Subaru, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, BMW, Acura, and Tesla are the ones I know for sure but there may be more that I don't know about.

In a thread where people are collecting info for the potentially large purchase of a car I think it's important to be knowledgeable and accurate with any info we post.

 

[jimf41]

I'm not here to argue either, I'm just trying to correct misinformation (as have other people in regards to your original post). You have since doubled down on your original misinformation by saying xDrive requires a button to be pushed. This is also false; xDrive is full time AWD and doesn't require any activation. I know this because I have owned a BMW with xDrive.

As I stated before there are other car AWD systems that are full time. Subaru, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, BMW, Acura, and Tesla are the ones I know for sure but there may be more that I don't know about.

In a thread where people are collecting info for the potentially large purchase of a car I think it's important to be knowledgeable and accurate with any info we post.

I bow to superior knowledge and the many references you cited.

 

[Gypsy65]

https://openroadautogroup.com/blog/guide-demystifying-4wd-and-awd-systems

 

[csxjohn]

My daughter is on her second Subaru Impreza. We bought them for the safety rating first and AWD secondly. She totaled the first and the car did what it was supposed to do, her and her infant child were fine. She crashed the second but it was repairable.

My point here is to make sure you get the EyeSight feature to prevent you from hitting the car in front of you. I believe it's standard on the Legacy but an option on some of the smaller ones. I wish we would have spent the extra money for the ES but at the time you had to also buy a big option package.

I'm down to one car and am looking. I sent my info to the Costco Car Buying program for a Subaru Legacy and a Tacoma P/U truck.

I don't like SUVs or hatchbacks for some real life safety issues. I'll get a sedan if I go the auto route.