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Should you buy airline tickets or hotel rooms first

tompalm

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Oahu just lost 1000s of places to stay each year and finding a place to stay might become difficult because all the folks that were staying in Air BnB rooms now have to stay in hotels or timeshares. So, find a place to stay and than get your airline tickets. The article below states that the major airlines will make adjustments for flights, but that will take time. From the newspaper today....

Crackdown on Oahu vacation rentals could hurt tourism
  • STAR-ADVERTISER / 2004

    Jessica Kuo, who owns a unit in the Waikiki Sunset that is rented as a hotel room by Aqua-Aston, said she was shocked when the hospitality company said it would not be managing her unit anymore.

Oahu’s more restrictive short-term rental rules, which take affect today, have come to the attention of investors and economists who warn the county is in danger of not having enough lodging for visitor arrivals to continue to grow.

“I have a strong feeling that there is this train wreck that is unfolding,” said Paul Brewbaker, principal of TZ Economics, who advised the Honolulu City Council not to pass Bill 89.

Council members unanimously passed Bill 89, which became Ordinance 19-018 when it was signed June 25. The new law bans advertising of unpermitted short-term rentals and enacts penalties that can result in fines of up to $10,000 for persistent violators.

It’s not known how many homeowners and investors on Oahu are involved in illegal short-term renting, but the city Department of Planning and Permitting identified 5,000 possible violators during a preliminary investigation. DPP spokesman Curtis Lum said possible violators were sent letters last week reminding them that a ban on advertising properties for short-term rentals of less than 30 days takes effect today.

The new law has been cause for celebration for supporters who were concerned that illegal short-term rentals were depleting affordable housing and changing the fabric of local communities. However, even supporters from the state’s visitor industry are now theorizing that, without adjustments, the law could have unintended consequences.

Mufi Hannemann, president and CEO of the Hawaii Lodging and Tourism Association, said he supported the new ordinance, but is concerned that it’s being applied to hundreds of units in resort districts.

DPP has ruled that the new law applies to most of the Waikiki properties mauka of Kuhio Avenue, which are in apartment and apartment precinct zones. DPP has said the new ruling also applies to the Kuilima Estates townhouses at the Turtle Bay Resort.

“We supported Bill 89, but this was an unintended consequence that was never made clear to us by DPP. We are appealing to them and to the Council members in these districts to take another look at this,” Hannemann said.

Jerry Gibson, vice president at Turtle Bay Resort and president of the Hawaii Visitors and Convention Bureau, said he supports Bill 89, but was surprised that units in Kuilima Estates were not in Turtle Bay Resort’s resort zoning.

“We don’t manage Kuilima Estates, but certainly, having less short-term rentals will affect the resort’s activities, golf, food and beverage” sales, Gibson said.

Jessica Kuo, who since 1983 has owned a Waikiki Sunset unit that is rented as a hotel room by Aqua-Aston, said she was shocked Friday when the hospitality company told her that it would no longer manage her unit, a move that will significantly affect her retirement income.

“I was told they are dropping owners without nonconforming use certificates. It’s about one-third of the building,” Kuo said. “I’ve always paid my general excise and transient accommodations taxes. It’s a ridiculous law. Hawaii as we all know depends on tourism, especially Waikiki. I see ordinances to control short-term rentals in Los Angeles where I live, but nothing as drastic as this one.”

Oahu Alternative Lodging Association (OALA) has estimated that the new law could cause Oahu to lose between 50,000 and 80,000 visitors per month.

“We need vacation rentals to add capacity,” said Brewbaker, who issued warnings in 2013 that Hawaii’s tourism industry would run out of rooms for visitors at around 8 million visitors. The state hosted 9.9 million visitors last year.

While Oahu’s hotel inventory stayed relatively the same, Brewbaker said the spread of vacation rentals added to the lodging supply, contributing to Oahu’s last six years of tourism growth. Now, he’s concerned that Bill 89 will unwind those gains.

“Bill 89 also is coming at a time when all the low-hanging fruit in a long economic expansion has been harvested. Also, you can’t even build a telescope next to a telescope. What signal has Hawaii sent that investors should double-down on Hawaii?”

To be sure, Oahu’s regulations have caught the attention of investors outside of Hawaii. Bill 89 was brought up during recent earnings conference calls for Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines. And, Southwest Airlines, which is poised to expand in Hawaii, said the ordinance is on its radar.

Southwest spokesman Brad Hawkins said Wednesday that the carrier “is closely monitoring the city’s work to address unregulated and unlicensed short-term rental units.

“As a carrier growing our service for island communities, we are heavily invested in an accurate landscape of available lodging for overnight visitors in Honolulu so that our flight activity can accurately reflect the marketplace,” Hawkins said.
 

tompalm

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Waikiki condo owners will sue to stop new law
  • Ordinance 19-18, formerly Bill 89 (2018), takes effect today. It imposes fines of up to $10,000 a day to either advertise or operate an illegal vacation rental on the island.

    It’s a powerful enforcement tool for the city Department of Planning and Permitting to stop what are believed to be thousands of illegal vacation rentals on Oahu.

    Owners of the 876 individual units in the two-tower Waikiki Banyan condominium complex want to stop the new law through a court-imposed injunction. Christian Porter, an attorney for the Waikiki Banyan Association of Apartment Owners, said he will soon be filing for an injunction against the city in state Circuit Court, seeking to stop enforcement of the new law at the Ohua Avenue complex.

    Porter said other Waikiki condominium owners are looking into the same type of action.

    The Waikiki Banyan is on the mauka, or mountain, side of Kuhio Avenue, an area where hotels, resorts and vacation rentals are prohibited unless they are specifically permitted through nonconforming use (NUC) certificates that the city stopped issuing in 1989.

    Only about 10%-12% of the Banyan units are occupied by their owners, meaning the rest are operating as either short-term or long-term rentals. There are 179 units in the complex with NUCs, said Tom Lonigro, Waikiki Banyan AOAO general manager.

    It baffles Lonigro how buildings on one side of Kuhio Avenue are considered part of the hotel precinct, while the other side is an apartment or apartment mixed-use precinct.

    “I can understand if you’re talking about a suburb, but we’re surrounded by hotels,” Lonigro said. “We have the Marriott across the street, we have the Hilton on the other side of Ohia, and we’ve been known as a hotel-resort since, well, since conception.”

    The building was completed in 1979 and “it’s been running as a hotel since 1979,” he said. “We were built with that front desk and the lobby since the beginning. It’s always operated in this manner. So it’s not like we’re trying to hide anything or we’re trying to skirt the law or anything like that.”

    There are six operators managing units at the Banyan, the biggest one being Aston Hotels and Resorts, Lonigro said.

    There are also some unit owners who rent out their condominiums on their own without the services of any of the operators, he said.

    “This is going to have a serious impact not only on the people who’ve invested in this building, it’s going to have a dramatic impact on the revenues to the city,” Lonigro said. “It’s going to have an impact on the employment of quite a number of people — there’s going to be a significant amount of layoffs if this goes through. It’s not a very well, thought-out ordinance.”

    Porter, the association attorney, said he and Waikiki Banyan representatives met with DPP officials seeking an exemption from the law and were rejected.

    “What we’re seeking is maintaining the status quo,” Porter said, noting that its owners pay transient accommodations and general excise taxes to operate as vacation rentals.

    Kathy Sokugawa, DPP acting director, told the Honolulu Star-Advertiser that many property owners are seeking an exemption from the law and the city can’t arbitrarily allow some but not others.

    The Waikiki Special Design District was created in the 1970s in part because of concerns that the area was being overrun with hotels, which led to the creation of apartment and mixed-use precincts for those on the mauka side of Kuhio, she said.

    “The policy makers wanted to ensure that residents had a place in Waikiki,” Sokugawa said. “Part of the reason was there was too much development going on. They wanted to ensure there was a certain amount of open space and … a Hawaiian sense of place.”

    During the recent, extensive deliberations on the vacation rentals bills, people testified in favor of keeping areas within Waikiki available for residential use.

    Meanwhile, DPP has continued to hear from property owners unhappy that they received letters suggesting they may be operating an illegal vacation rental, or asking them to report neighbors who might be operating one.

    DPP reported that as of close of business Wednesday, it had received 820 complaints from people about the letters. The department sent out about 5,000 of them earlier this week.

    Sokugawa said DPP relied on “drop pins” — used by Airbnb, VRBO or other online platforms to identify the location of vacation rentals.

    Those who own properties where there are not vacation rentals need not prove their innocence, she said. “You need to worry if you get issued a notice of violation,” she said, noting that much more research will need to be done before that will happen. Even then, the property owner has seven days to ensure the ad is dropped before DPP will issue a notice of order imposing a fine. At that point, the owner can still file an appeal, she said.
 

geist1223

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The Title to this thread is misleading. It has nothing to do with making flight reservations.
 

Roger830

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We went to Hawaii four times and always booked our lodging before the airline.

This includes timeshares, vrbo, and hotel.

I know that I can book an airline ticket in the future, but I don't know if I can book the lodging that I want.
 

Gypsy65

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We went to Hawaii four times and always booked our lodging before the airline.

This includes timeshares, vrbo, and hotel.

I know that I can book an airline ticket in the future, but I don't know if I can book the lodging that I want.

And
It’s usually easier to cancel a room without fees than airline tix
 

controller1

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Confused with the title and how it relates to the two articles.

I have never booked air prior to booking lodging. I would hate to book non-refundable air reservations just to find out some major event has booked nearly everything at the destination.
 

tompalm

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Some people look for the cheapest flight and later get hotel rooms after they bought airline tickets. But sometimes they don’t have a choice for when they can take vacation. My thoughts were that lots of the people on this forum are retired and when they see a good deal on flights, they buy tickets first. I guess if you have tickets to Oahu and can’t find a place to stay, or it cost more than you want to pay, buy tickets to go to another island where lodging will be cheaper. The mayor went overboard shutting down to many Air BnBs.
 

OldGuy

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Hotels?
 

geist1223

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We Book 12 to 14 months in advance. Want to get Resort we want when we want it. Then we do not Book airline tickets until months later.
 

controller1

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We Book 12 to 14 months in advance. Want to get Resort we want when we want it. Then we do not Book airline tickets until months later.

Good point! Timeshares are booked more than a month before I'm even capable of booking air.
 

artringwald

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We Book 12 to 14 months in advance. Want to get Resort we want when we want it. Then we do not Book airline tickets until months later.
Same here, although we often stay in hotels or condos on other islands. We book the timeshare weeks., find which days have the lowest price flights, book the condos/hotels, and then the flights.
 

rickandcindy23

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So odd that the county is cracking down on vacation rentals of private homes and condos. Will Maui follow suit? They get a lot of taxes from the Maui rentals. Maui made sure that every rental agent charges and pays those taxes. I hope that doesn't hurt our friends who bought a condo next door to Hono Koa. I am so jealous of their condo and the deal they got.

I still think a rental in a neighborhood new people each week would make me nervous being next door.
 

NTP66

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I hope they do crack down on out of state condo owners, personally. There’s a big problem in Maui where locals are effectively being forced out of the area because of this, along with other factors.
 

Tamaradarann

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I hope they do crack down on out of state condo owners, personally. There’s a big problem in Maui where locals are effectively being forced out of the area because of this, along with other factors.

I have some thoughts about short term rentals in Hawaii. If I understand Bill 89 it only prohibits short term rentals without a permit for less than 30 days; and requires owners to collect the appropriate short term rental taxes, which is not new, and I believe comes to 14%. I see nothing wrong with strengthening a law which is intended to treat people using the Condos that they own like Hotels the same as Hotels and assuring that they are charging the applicable tax.

As far as cracking down on "Out of State Condo Owners", we are an out of state condo owner. Our Condo prohibits rentals for less than 3 months. We are currently renting our Condo for a year. Next year we intend on staying in our Condo for a least 6 months a year. I hope they DON'T CRACK DOWN ON OUT OF STATE CONDO OWNERS!
 

controller1

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I have some thoughts about short term rentals in Hawaii. If I understand Bill 89 it only prohibits short term rentals without a permit for less than 30 days; and requires owners to collect the appropriate short term rental taxes, which is not new, and I believe comes to 14%. I see nothing wrong with strengthening a law which is intended to treat people using the Condos that they own like Hotels the same as Hotels and assuring that they are charging the applicable tax.

As far as cracking down on "Out of State Condo Owners", we are an out of state condo owner. Our Condo prohibits rentals for less than 3 months. We are currently renting our Condo for a year. Next year we intend on staying in our Condo for a least 6 months a year. I hope they DON'T CRACK DOWN ON OUT OF STATE CONDO OWNERS!

I don't have a problem with the way you are renting the condo. I would have a problem with an out-of-state or in-state condo owner who rents by the day or week.
 

Henry M.

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Regardless of legality, VRBO, AirBnB and such short term rental arrangements do cause housing affordability problems for the local residents, and bypass many safety regulations that regular hotel and lodging accommodations must follow. There isn't a black and white answer as to what should be allowed or prohibited.

For the property owner, it is nice to get 3 or 4 times what long term rental rates are. However, that means availability of affordable longer term housing for those needing to live in the area dries up. San Francisco and other big metropolitan areas have big problems when investors start buying condos to use for short-term rentals. Some effectively run mini-hotels without abiding by hotel regulations. Short-term rentals also ruin the feel of neighborhoods as transient occupants take over.

I wouldn't want anyone to tell me what I can do or not do with my property, but I also wouldn't like different people using the unit next to mine every few days. It can be a difficult balance of everybody's interests.
 

geist1223

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Many jurisdictions have limitations on short term rentals.
 

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There was a time when we almost always had to book our plane tickets first because we were able to use FF miles. FF tickets opened at 331 days out but our timeshare opened at 9 months outs.
 

NTP66

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There was a time when we almost always had to book our plane tickets first because we were able to use FF miles. FF tickets opened at 331 days out but our timeshare opened at 9 months outs.
That's generally still the case if you want the best redemption, especially for Hawaii. I booked our departure at day 331 (AA), and that same departure is already 15k miles/person higher as of today. It's only going to get worse as time goes on. I'm planning on booking the return on Thursday when they're first available.
 

jehb2

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Title is misleading but still really good information to know. We never have any need to do Airbnb in Hawaii because we have all the timeshares. However, I’m in the middle of booking 5 different Airbnbs for Europe. I always have to remember to make sure that the place I’m renting has a tax ID number. Clearly, a lot of people don’t care. But you risk losing your place to stay if they start enforcing new laws and going after violators.
 
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