"Marriott Beyond" - Vistana owners, please post in this thread ONLY

[JIMinNC]

In other words, the DC Exchange Company is not management independent, but is a separate legal entity from the DC Trust but under Marriott’s control.

 

[Ken555]

Not “independent” from a management perspective, but set up in a way that affiliate programs can participate. Think of VSN as an affiliate. It’s also managed by Marriott now but is a separate program. It could just become another red circle in the diagram - a mirror of the red circle called DC Trust.

Jim,

I understand the point. I took issue with Sue’s characterization of the situation in her response to another post. She was surprised we did not know that it was independent, and it’s...not, yet she thinks it is. It is not independent, as it is controlled by Marriott.

Ken


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[Ken555]

In other words, the DC Exchange Company is not management independent, but is a separate legal entity from the DC Trust but under Marriott’s control.

Of course! In fact, that is the very reason I posted a reply!

That still doesn’t impact Sue’s contention that because it is independent it fulfills the role as suggested by an earlier post. We are losing focus here.


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[SueDonJ]

Is the DC an independent company with its own management? Based even on your statement of how it started I would assume it has tight ties to Marriott, and it appears (I’m making an assumption) that its only customer is Marriott. I think you’re using the word “independent” very loosely here.

Any corporate owned system, of any type, can be modified to encompass additional features. By the same token as your independent DC, I could postulate that Marriott will opt to adopt StarOptions and use the Vistana exchange system...and then bundle Hyatt and whatever other systems they want into it. Or, as has been said, II. It won’t, but I can speculate...and I know you enjoy that...



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It's not an independent exchange company as one thinks of RCI, II, etc being independent, no. But it's an independent vehicle for exchanges that comes under the MVW umbrella. (And of course, now II is under that same umbrella.)

This is a version of the Exchange Procedures document that was rolled out in 2010. I know, it's a waste of time to read the whole thing but just look at Section II that starts on the first page. Considering that it legally-defines the types of membership according to whether a person has purchased Trust Points that correlate to intervals conveyed to the Trust, i.e. "Trust Members," as opposed to those who can enroll existing ownerships, "Affiliated Members," and considering that it allows for other timeshare companies to integrate easily via an affiliation agreement, I really don't think that much modification will be necessary.

Owners of enrolled Marriott Weeks are, by definition, "Affiliated Members," who can elect annually to exchange their Weeks for the number of DC Exchange Points that MVW has determined. I think the set-up allows exactly the same to Hyatt/Vistana owners, IF that's what MVW wants to offer them.

 

[JIMinNC]

Of course! In fact, that is the very reason I posted a reply!

That still doesn’t impact Sue’s contention that because it is independent it fulfills the role as suggested by an earlier post. We are losing focus here.


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Sue didn’t say it was independent of Marriott. She said it was a independent component of Marriott’s program - meaning it is independent of the Trust and the individual weeks. Neither is VSN independent of Marriott, but it is a separate component that COULD become an input to the DC Exchange Company. Anything MVW develops is still an internal program since they now own it all.

 

[Ken555]

Sue didn’t say it was independent of Marriott. She said it was a independent component of Marriott’s program - meaning it is independent of the Trust and the individual weeks.

She said:

Even though their exchange company was developed and introduced under the MVW umbrella, it still is an independent entity that could function as a vehicle for non-Marriott-branded timeshares, including any that are outside the MVW umbrella.

The words “independent entity” is what triggered my response. It is not independent by any practical definition.


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[JIMinNC]

The words “independent entity” is what triggered my response. It is not independent by any practical definition.


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It IS an independent entity from the Trust. “Separate entity” might be a slightly more accurate description.

 

[Ken555]

It IS an independent entity from the Trust. “Separate entity” might be a slightly more accurate description.

Technically, it may be independent, but yes “separate” or perhaps “fully controlled division incorporated separated in an attempt to convince others it is independent” may be better. Words matter.


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[SueDonJ]

She said:



The words “independent entity” is what triggered my response. It is not independent by any practical definition.


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I'm stuck on how it can function independently from other components under the MVW umbrella, you're stuck on it not being incorporated or managed by a company other than MVW.

Can we at least agree that it could serve as the simplest way for MVW to integrate owners of non-Marriott-branded timeshares, such that cross-branding exchanges could be easily managed?

 

[SueDonJ]

Technically, it may be independent, but yes “separate” or perhaps “fully controlled division incorporated separated in an attempt to convince others it is independent” may be better. Words matter.


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Words do matter, and I wouldn't say, "separated in an attempt to convince others it is independent." That phrase implies that I am being hoodwinked into believing something that isn't true. I'm not being hoodwinked. I know that as a matter of practicality and despite it coming under the MVW umbrella, the DC Exchange Company is an independent entity that does not legally limit participation to only people who own Marriott timeshares.

Come on, Ken! I'll admit to causing some confusion here, especially for those who haven't had 9+ years to become familiar with MVW's points-based business, but you also weren't clear in stating that your sole qualifier of independence seems to be whether or not MVW is managing the existing exchange company through which Hyatt/Vistana timeshares could be integrated if MVW chooses.

 

[Ken555]

I'm stuck on how it can function independently from other components under the MVW umbrella, you're stuck on it not being incorporated or managed by a company other than MVW.

Can we at least agree that it could serve as the simplest way for MVW to integrate owners of non-Marriott-branded timeshares, such that cross-branding exchanges could be easily managed?

I’m really not “stuck”. I was simply annoyed (sorry!) that you used the word “independent” when it was created, managed, run by, and designed specifically for MAW. Just like II is obviously biased (and always was, even when it was owned separately) the DP program is not Independent in any practical way. I’m not so concerned with the legalities, since I consider the entire timeshare industry rather incestuous.

I think it’s one of many ways that could be implemented to accommodate a goal of allowing multiple existing networks to exchange easily. I suspect it’s the way of the future if for nothing else that it was Marriott developed, there are more Marriott owners and resorts, and it is likely easier to migrate a lesser number of owners by keeping DP than any other solution. However, I think it’s fair to note that II already has an exchange system in place so they could also easily leverage that, if only as a phase one approach should there be other issues delaying a full integration. And we all know the industry IT is just horrible, so what would in almost any other industry be relatively simple can be a years long project in the timeshare world.


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[Ken555]

I'll admit to causing some confusion here

Thanks


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[SueDonJ]

Thanks


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You're welcome. Good luck.

 

[DannyTS]

Putting a program in place requires changes to IT infrastructure. That will impact timing a lot. Changing IT takes time. It’s only been 10 months since the transaction closed.

With so many resorts in warm weather destinations where first quarter IS high season, timeshare seasonality is not nearly as seasonal as the overall hotel market in the chart. Here are the last four quarters of Marriott Vacations Worldwide’s vacation ownership contract sales. These are just for legacy MVW and do not include ILG for comparability:

Q1 2019 - $201 million
Q4 2018 - $224 million
Q3 2018 - $252 million
Q2 2018 - $205 million

So there is seasonality, but it’s not extreme.

I totally agree with you, having the program ready is the most important factor. They want to make sure that IT support is there, the staff is trained and that they iron out as many wrinkles as possible before the launch.
Concerning the seasonality, from what I remember from an earnings call though, the sales numbers may be smoother on paper than in reality because they are recorded when the transactions close rather than when the buyers sign the papers. Q1 for example is boosted by the sales that actually happen during weeks 51 and 52, otherwise it would be even lower. Similarly, if an owner buys in August, the transaction may only be counted in October thus boosting Q4.

 

[JIMinNC]

I totally agree with you, having the program ready is the most important factor. They want to make sure that IT support is there, the staff is trained and that they iron out as many wrinkles as possible before the launch.
Concerning the seasonality, from what I remember from an earnings call though, the sales numbers may be smoother on paper than in reality because they are recorded when the transactions close rather than when the buyers sign the papers. Q1 for example is boosted by the sales that actually happen during weeks 51 and 52, otherwise it would be even lower. Similarly, if an owner buys in August, the transaction may only be counted in October thus boosting Q4.

True about the revenue reportability adjustments, but even so, Jan - Mar is still one of the highest seasons with all of the resorts in Hawaii, Caribbean, Florida, etc. Personally, that is also our “high season” for timeshare usage as well. I don’t think we’ve ever used our Marriott ownership in the summer - but that’s just us.

 

[DannyTS]

True about the revenue reportability adjustments, but even so, Jan - Mar is still one of the highest seasons with all of the resorts in Hawaii, Caribbean, Florida, etc. Personally, that is also our “high season” for timeshare usage as well. I don’t think we’ve ever used our Marriott ownership in the summer - but that’s just us.

I thought you were rooting for an earlier announcement of the program
Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my side

 

[JIMinNC]

I thought you were rooting for an earlier announcement of the program
Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my side

They’ll announce it when they do. I’m intrigued by what they might announce, but that’s more curiosity than real impact on our travel. MVC has most of the places we value, so Vistana only adds very marginally to our needs.

 

[controller1]

I just completed within the past 30 minutes an owners update at Westin Riverfront. One of the salespeople called in sick so a manager met with us.

In answering my questions the manager said he had not heard of Marriott Beyond and was unaware of any imminent announcement. He said none of their sales personnel had received any recent training. He picked up his phone to start to Google Marriott Beyond and I told him not to bother as there is nothing on the internet about it except what is on TUG.

Not sure this is what everyone was hoping for but this is a manager who we've dealt with before and I think he would have done some hedging if there was something coming up. Perhaps this means that initially Marriott Beyond, if there is such a program, will only be for MVC owners. Who knows?

Other things covered in the meeting were things that have already been shared on TUG such as Nanea and 5-Star Elite moving to Bonvoy Titanium. If anyone has any questions, let me know..

 

[SueDonJ]

... Not sure this is what everyone was hoping for but this is a manager who we've dealt with before and I think he would have done some hedging if there was something coming up. Perhaps this means that initially Marriott Beyond, if there is such a program, will only be for MVC owners. Who knows? ...

There hasn't been a report from Marriott people about "Marriott Beyond" either. This initial report comes from a Hyatt owner who's checking in this week and got a call from a sales rep to schedule a presentation because supposedly something's coming Monday. Whatever it might be, if something happens, that's the specific name given to it by that rep.

 

[dioxide45]

Putting a program in place requires changes to IT infrastructure. That will impact timing a lot. Changing IT takes time. It’s only been 10 months since the transaction closed.

With so many resorts in warm weather destinations where first quarter IS high season, timeshare seasonality is not nearly as seasonal as the overall hotel market in the chart. Here are the last four quarters of Marriott Vacations Worldwide’s vacation ownership contract sales. These are just for legacy MVW and do not include ILG for comparability:

Q1 2019 - $201 million
Q4 2018 - $224 million
Q3 2018 - $252 million
Q2 2018 - $205 million

So there is seasonality, but it’s not extreme.

The 25% bump in summer sales over Q1 and Q2 seems to match up with the similar bump in occupancy rates for summer. Consider that the chart doesn't start at 0%. I would expect a summer announcement like they did in 2010.

 

[Carol C]

Just to reiterate, there haven't been any reports from Marriott sales presentations that mentioned, "Marriott Beyond." That specific name - as if it's a real thing - came from an owner who's scheduled to visit a Hyatt next week and was contacted by an onsite sales rep to do a presentation because whatever this thing is, it's supposedly coming Monday. Speculation had already been swirling with respect to Hyatt and Vistana because of sales-speak that's been ramping up since they both came under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, so naturally the expectation is that if Hyatt is facing a something, Vistana will probably be facing it, too.

For what it's worth, if anything, all of this is eerily reminiscent of the 6/20/10 Marriott Destination Club roll-out that Marriott owners faced. Interesting times, for sure.

Maybe it's a misprint and it should read "Marriott Beyonce". Maybe she's the new Marriott spokeswoman, like her husband is for some cannabis mega- company in California.

 

[VacationForever]

Maybe it's a misprint and it should read "Marriott Beyonce". Maybe she's the new Marriott spokeswoman, like her husband is for some cannabis mega- company in California.

Oh... Puh-lease.... if that happens, I will quickly become an ex-MVC timeshare owner.

 

[pacman777]

There hasn't been a report from Marriott people about "Marriott Beyond" either. This initial report comes from a Hyatt owner who's checking in this week and got a call from a sales rep to schedule a presentation because supposedly something's coming Monday. Whatever it might be, if something happens, that's the specific name given to it by that rep.

It’ll be pretty funny if we had all these discussions and posts about some BS that came out of a salespersons mouth just to get some guest to attend a presentation.

 

[DannyTS]

it seems to me that the chances to hear anything new tomorrow are very low. Yet, would it be possible that they are just starting this announcement with the Hyatt owners? I just do not see a good reason for them to do so.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

It’ll be pretty funny if we had all these discussions and posts about some BS that came out of a salespersons mouth just to get some guest to attend a presentation.

I wondered that also. I thought Marriott was starting with Vistana.