Is 2019 the 'Year of the Timeshare'? [Marriott/Vistana/Hyatt in the DC speculation]

[bazzap]

The same is true for renting II exchanges, yet we all know it happens.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As we know though, with II rentals, just sometimes the renters are denied check in on arrival and the owners do have their II membership suspended or cancelled.

 

[Dean]

Define renting though. Having friends go when I don’t use my weeks, I assume that’s ok? Or really they don’t care if you rent which is why they added the 59 dollar fee to capitalize on rentals

I think the definition is very simple, accepting any form or any amount of payment specifically in exchange for the timeshare. This includes barter (including another week but could be anything) and includes below market $$ payments. The amounts are really irrelevant to the definition. But these are company rules and they have the right to waive them if they are given the chance and so decide to. For example, if you read RCI's rules they don't allow renting and officially don't make any exceptions but semi officially they will allow you to recoup the exchange fee and guest cert fee and be OK but not more. II doesn't even allow that.

In general and speaking to the principle not to you directly, I want to be clear. What one does speaks to their character, that someone else lied or tricked does not make it right, or even reasonable, for me to do the same to "get even" or because of the situation it has put me in. Whether it be renting when it's against the rules or going over occupancy, it is dishonest to knowingly violate those rules unilaterally. If one notified the timeshare officially that X or Y was a rental and they said OK for that rental directly, that's on them. Telling the pool boy as he walks by or having the discussion with a salesperson 1 or 10 years ago would not pass the test. The truth is it often is costly and difficult to be honest. Knowing that rentals happen and not stopping it when they can is not the same as allowing them and does not change these statement. Integrity is how you act when people aren't looking. I do not believe in situational ethics.

Specific to your statement "However you can let as many uncles and aunts you want to go using star options" is a true statement but in context it seemed clear you were suggesting to rent and say they're a relative. If I misread that please let me know.

 

[Dean]

The more I think about the possibility of consolidation with these other systems and DC, the more i wonder if they'll stick to the rules already in place. For example if they allow direct enrollment, I suspect they'll use the June 20, 2010 cutoff for resales and otherwise charge similar amounts as they do now for MVC for post 2010 resale. For any additional layer crossover above their current system, I doubt the same will apply and for that type of combination I would suspect one would have to have the resale recorded by the date of the announcement. But I also doubt that such a system will give direct access to the DC system at the same time as higher level enrolled owners.

 

[JIMinNC]

The more I think about the possibility of consolidation with these other systems and DC, the more i wonder if they'll stick to the rules already in place. For example if they allow direct enrollment, I suspect they'll use the June 20, 2010 cutoff for resales and otherwise charge similar amounts as they do now for MVC for post 2010 resale. For any additional layer crossover above their current system, I doubt the same will apply and for that type of combination I would suspect one would have to have the resale recorded by the date of the announcement. But I also doubt that such a system will give direct access to the DC system at the same time as higher level enrolled owners.

With direct DC enrollment I would not expect the 6/20/2010 date to change for current MVC owners. But just as Caribbean and Europe MVC owners have a different cut off date than US owners, I would expect the cutoff for VSE and/or Hyatt to be the announcement date.

 

[amycurl]

I am intrigued by the earlier references to Longboat and Saturday Villas, and Google has failed me. Does someone have more info/ links to these resorts? Interested to know more about them and “where are they now.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[bazzap]

Define renting though. Having friends go when I don’t use my weeks, I assume that’s ok? Or really they don’t care if you rent which is why they added the 59 dollar fee to capitalize on rentals

This is the II document which details the Ts & Cs prohibiting commercial rentals.

“Guest Certificates may only be obtained for personal or noncommercial purposes. Failure to secure a Guest Certificate where required for a guest of the Member when the Member does not plan to occupy the Host Accommodations (including instances where the Member has been issued Confirmations for multiple units having the same travel dates at the same Member Resort), or obtaining Guest Certificates that are used for commercial purposes may result in termination of the membership and cancellation of any existing Confirmations, including those with future travel dates. Guests of Members who arrive at a Host Resort without a Guest Certificate will be denied access to the accommodations until the Member has purchased a Guest Certificate from II.”

https://www.intervalworld.com/iimedia/pdf/iw/buyers-guide.pdf

 

[Dean]

I am intrigued by the earlier references to Longboat and Saturday Villas, and Google has failed me. Does someone have more info/ links to these resorts? Interested to know more about them and “where are they now.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm sure others will know some of the earlier information better than I but I'll give it a shot. These links may be helpful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriott_Vacation_Club#History & https://advantagevacation.com/marriott-vacation-club-history-and-update/. Marriott started early on with Harbour Point, Monarch, Spicebush and Swallowtail and the Saturday villas all on HHI plus Vail. Monarch was in construction and HP was complete with an established owner base at the time Marriott took over. Saturday Villas were condo units here and there in 5 different complexes IIRC in Sea Pines that all started on Saturday. The reason that Monarch has fixed week/fixed units and season options is due to the transition as I'm told. There were a couple of others early on that were long gone by the time I became aware of the system, one in the Caribbean and one at Loon Mt in NH both of which exited fairly early and I don't believe either are timeshares at all today. Longboat Bay Club is a 15 unit timeshare on Longboat Key south of Tampa that Marriott managed for I believe one contract cycle but actually came on a fair amount later and it was eliminated at the same time as Spicebush, Swallowtail, part of Vail, Saturday Villas, etc. I don't know the history of Vail as well but part of it was also not built by Marriott. Early additions included Sunset Point, additional Vail buildings, Harbour Point, Heritage and the World Center Orlando resorts.

I've stayed or visited most of these and HP was my first purchase for Marriott. I considered a week at SB, ST & HP all for internal trading and decided on HP though I no longer own it. Being a week 35 & having the resort quality issues made it a poor trader for my purposes but obviously SB/ST would have been even worse.

 

[JIMinNC]

Early additions included Sunset Point, additional Vail buildings, Harbour Point, Heritage and the World Golf Village resorts.

I assume you mean World Center instead of World Golf Village. The golf village is in St Augustine and no MVC

 

[amycurl]

Thanks for the background! I am fascinated by this kind of history-of-development type stuff. *pushes her metaphorical nerdy glasses up her nose*

Quick question: do you remember what the name of the "Saturday Villas" resort might have been/might be now? I was aware of the history of Swallowtail and Spicebush, and, of course, of the other HHI resorts, but have never heard of this resort name before.

 

[Dean]

I assume you mean World Center instead of World Golf Village. The golf village is in St Augustine and no MVC

Yes, sorry, Bluegreen and Marriott Rolling around my head.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for the background! I am fascinated by this kind of history-of-development type stuff. *pushes her metaphorical nerdy glasses up her nose*

Sure, maybe someone even better informed than I can add/correct any information. IMO it's important to understand the history to judge future risks. I'm willing to bet that not all the resorts we have now in any and all systems will be with the company in a few years (like 5-7) but that might include historical MVC resorts like the rest of Vail & HP.

 

[Dean]

Another tidbit for HHI. There used to be a central check in for most of the resorts right as you get to the Sea Pines Circle on the right going in. I'm pretty sure Marriott still owns it and I'm thinking they use it for administrative purposes. At one time there was a dedicated II rep at this location who would often run informational meetings following owners meetings but would also meet individually. I'm not currently aware of anywhere that has such reps for II but others may know differently. RCI still does this in some places I believe.

 

[amycurl]

Another tidbit for HHI. There used to be a central check in for most of the resorts right as you get to the Sea Pines Circle on the right going in. I'm pretty sure Marriott still owns it and I'm thinking they use it for administrative purposes. At one time there was a dedicated II rep at this location who would often run informational meetings following owners meetings but would also meet individually. I'm not currently aware of anywhere that has such reps for II but others may know differently. RCI still does this in some places I believe.

I do remember the central check-in building (we used it for at least our first stay, New Year's Day week in 2000, and perhaps later ones as well.) The building is still there and still has a Marriott sign on it, so I agree that they most likely still own it and use it for something.

Sorry for this random tangent off of this thread!

 

[SueDonJ]

Another tidbit for HHI. There used to be a central check in for most of the resorts right as you get to the Sea Pines Circle on the right going in. I'm pretty sure Marriott still owns it and I'm thinking they use it for administrative purposes. At one time there was a dedicated II rep at this location who would often run informational meetings following owners meetings but would also meet individually. I'm not currently aware of anywhere that has such reps for II but others may know differently. RCI still does this in some places I believe.

I think there's still a local II rep who occasionally holds "workshops" at some of the HHI resorts, Grande Ocean and SurfWatch that I know of, maybe Barony?

 

[Dean]

I think there's still a local II rep who occasionally holds "workshops" at some of the HHI resorts, Grande Ocean and SurfWatch that I know of, maybe Barony?

Maybe I haven't seen evidence of them in a number of years though.

 

[SueDonJ]

Maybe I haven't seen evidence of them in a number of years though.

Yeah, I don't think they're as common as they used to be, when they were at least a weekly thing on the Activities schedules.

 

[jme]

There is an Interval rep who has, and has had, a private office at Grande Ocean for years,
located in the building where the front desk/lobby is.
Her name is Katrina Brown, and she is quite helpful with anything related to Interval.
Because of the construction of the new Activities Center at GO
which is currently underway, she is not sure if she'll retain her same office
or if it will be moved.

 

[CPNY]

I think the definition is very simple, accepting any form or any amount of payment specifically in exchange for the timeshare. This includes barter (including another week but could be anything) and includes below market $$ payments. The amounts are really irrelevant to the definition. But these are company rules and they have the right to waive them if they are given the chance and so decide to. For example, if you read RCI's rules they don't allow renting and officially don't make any exceptions but semi officially they will allow you to recoup the exchange fee and guest cert fee and be OK but not more. II doesn't even allow that.

In general and speaking to the principle not to you directly, I want to be clear. What one does speaks to their character, that someone else lied or tricked does not make it right, or even reasonable, for me to do the same to "get even" or because of the situation it has put me in. Whether it be renting when it's against the rules or going over occupancy, it is dishonest to knowingly violate those rules unilaterally. If one notified the timeshare officially that X or Y was a rental and they said OK for that rental directly, that's on them. Telling the pool boy as he walks by or having the discussion with a salesperson 1 or 10 years ago would not pass the test. The truth is it often is costly and difficult to be honest. Knowing that rentals happen and not stopping it when they can is not the same as allowing them and does not change these statement. Integrity is how you act when people aren't looking. I do not believe in situational ethics.

Specific to your statement "However you can let as many uncles and aunts you want to go using star options" is a true statement but in context it seemed clear you were suggesting to rent and say they're a relative. If I misread that please let me know.

Yeah if I’m not using my timeshare and I have a friend use my banked points, I see zero problem in having them pay my maint fees and using the timeshare I book for them. There have been times I haven’t gone for 4-5 years at a time, this year I’m using it 3 times. Next year I have so many banked points that I’m having friends go for spring break week. They will be back paying the maint fees on the points I saved to have enough for the unit size and week. Is that a problem or am I supposed to pay 4K for their vacation?

 

[Dean]

Yeah if I’m not using my timeshare and I have a friend use my banked points, I see zero problem in having them pay my maint fees and using the timeshare I book for them. There have been times I haven’t gone for 4-5 years at a time, this year I’m using it 3 times. Next year I have so many banked points that I’m having friends go for spring break week. They will be back paying the maint fees on the points I saved to have enough for the unit size and week. Is that a problem or am I supposed to pay 4K for their vacation?

It's not necessarily a problem, it depends, but it is a rental plain and simple. As I noted, it's often expensive to be honest.

 

[CPNY]

It's not necessarily a problem, it depends, but it is a rental plain and simple. As I noted, it's often expensive to be honest.

Let’s be friends, I’ll totally use your timeshares when you don’t use them at any given time

 

[Dean]

Let’s be friends, I’ll totally use your timeshares when you don’t use them at any given time

Or maybe I should use your extra points, LOL. In your previous note you made a passive aggressive statement worded as a question "Is that a problem or am I supposed to pay 4K for their vacation?". I don't buy any of the underlying premises but to answer the question as asked, the answer is yes if it means unilaterally violating the inherent rules as being discussed here.

 

[SueDonJ]

Let’s be friends, I’ll totally use your timeshares when you don’t use them at any given time

It would totally blow your mind if you knew that some Marriott people have actually offered usage for free to their friends on the TUG boards, wouldn't it?

 

[Dean]

It would totally blow your mind if you knew that some Marriott people have actually offered usage for free to their friends on the TUG boards, wouldn't it?

We just got back from HHI Grande Ocean with eleven 2 BR units for a week on our dime and I've given a number of people, friends and just acquaintances, free reservations. One I felt so bad about because they did the timeshare tour and bought resale. I hadn't warned them but I was able to let them know their options retail while in the cancelation timeframe and they decide not to cancel. Their choice, not my decision.

 

[CPNY]

It would totally blow your mind if you knew that some Marriott people have actually offered usage for free to their friends on the TUG boards, wouldn't it?

Yeah it would blow my mind. I’d only give away free vacations to family. Or invited friends I’m traveling with, I wouldn’t charge them anything naturally. But If I can’t use a week and am not banking it, my friends can cover the maint fee that year and go. Gee, I guess I’m a bad friend for not paying 1,500 bucks and giving the week away for free lol.

 

[CPNY]

Or maybe I should use your extra points, LOL. In your previous note you made a passive aggressive statement worded as a question "Is that a problem or am I supposed to pay 4K for their vacation?". I don't buy any of the underlying premises but to answer the question as asked, the answer is yes if it means unilaterally violating the inherent rules as being discussed here.

Not passive aggressive at all, and I’m sorry you felt that way. If their rules are no rentals then they shouldn’t charge to change the name of the reservation. That is not ethical, what’s next? Adding booking fee to book a reservation using our points? (Not passive aggressive) so if I’m Giving away usage to my friends (free to them) after I book a week with my points, then I have to pay a fee to change the name on the reservation. Why is that? That’s not ethical on their part, since I’m not renting the unit and am just giving it away.