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Max 9 Boeing

am1

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Should Boeing take back the Max 9 planes they have sold? Voluntarily or by force? I am disappointed the shares in the airlines I own have a few and were basing expansion on them.

I was looking forward to their business class offerings but now would prefer to fly coach (international) not cattle coach what Us and Canadian airlines offer. Would rather take the bus or walk.

Wall Street does not believe so as the stock is still “high”.

My guess is Boeing will rename the plane and hope people forget.

A company from any other country would not get this pass and it is a shame the world allows it.
 

dioxide45

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easyrider

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A recently retired Boeing engineer was at my birthday party and told us that the Max is fine and should have been sold as a complete product with all software updates and training. This is where Boeing screwed up. They got greedy.

Even so, I won't be getting on a Max until they are flying for a while with no problems.

Bill
 

am1

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A recently retired Boeing engineer was at my birthday party and told us that the Max is fine and should have been sold as a complete product with all software updates and training. This is where Boeing screwed up. They got greedy.

Even so, I won't be getting on a Max until they are flying for a while with no problems.

Bill

Probably true but where does that leave the airlines that purchased the total package? They should step up to the plate and own their mistake regardless of the cost. The United States should be the front runner in this effort.
 

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I agree the max is fine and this entire issue has been over blown. It is sad that two aircraft accidents had to happen and 100s of people died before anyone noticed a problem. One day prior to the first crash, the same emergency happened on the same aircraft and the off duty pilot told the Captain to disengage the stabilizer trim switch that is located on the front of the center console next to the left knee of the first officer. After the stab trim cutout switch was moved to cutout, the pilots flew the aircraft by hand without any problems. The mechanics couldn’t find anything wrong and put the aircraft back in service. The next day, the same thing happened, but the pilots didn’t know the memory items for the emergency. If this had happened in the US, I believe any pilot working for an US airline would have known the correct procedures and they would not have crashed. I used to fly the 737-800 from 2000-2008 and we practiced this emergency every year in simulator training.

Boeing messed up by adding the max software to the new aircraft and not making it known what its purpose was. Perhaps they promoted it to the buyers, but large companies didn’t want to spend extra money for training and it went unnoticed. Also, Boeing should have done more to ensure the system would not malfunction before releasing the max equipment and they should have been more proactive after the first crash and figured out what happened. They have taken full responsibility and I am amazed it has taken so long to get the aircraft back online.

Regarding where it leaves airlines that purchased the package, I am sure that insurance covers a lot. One thing I do know is the stock market knows the value of a company and looks forward with estimates for future earnings. So unless there is more bad news, Boeing and all the airlines that fly that aircraft are moving forward. I would not have a problem being a passenger on a 737 max aircraft in the United States. I do avoid being a passenger on most aircraft that are operated by a foreign airline. There are several countries that have pilots and mechanics that are well trained. But the two companies that crashed are not among them. Flying in the US is safe and Boeing builds the best aircraft, so airlines don’t want to return their max aircraft. Also, pilots have been trained in the 737 and to move them into another aircraft would cost too much. There really is no other option for most airlines. But a lot of long term damage has been done and companies might transition to Airbus in the future.
 
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Ubil

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There are a lot of issues for Boeing and the FAA to sort out. Two of the issues:

1) Boeing designed a system, that could take control of the aircraft, with a single point of failure. Unbelievable. This is basic aviation engineering.
2) Boeing then made the indicator light that would tell the pilot of the problem as an option.
Really unbelievable. (This is simplifying. The AoA Disagree Alert would only work if the customer purchased the optional Angle of Attack Indicator. Boeing says that they did not make this dependency intentionally. If they didn't do this intentionally, it also points to engineering problems.)

More MAX issues keep coming out and apparently the outlook for the MAX flying again is now 2020.
I'm surprised that Boeing stock hasn't taken more of a hit. Boeing will be paying billions of dollars.
 

Talent312

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They believed that whatever they did was an evolution in perfection.
Boeing... the definition of chutzpah.
 
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Marathoner

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Boeing believed too much of their own hype about the Max - that it operated exactly the same as the previous generations of the 737. As a result, they did not test as rigorously as they should have around the failure scenarios of the angle of attack sensors and MCAS system and how human pilots can be overloaded into making poor decisions.

Second, they made a big mistake in outsourcing too much of the Max flight avionics software development to offshore developers who have no aeronautics experience. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ax-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers

Finally, after they uncovered issues with their MCAS software prior to the first crash, they made the financially motivated decision not to ground the plane themselves.

The Boeing CEO needs to be held accountable.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
 

x3 skier

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I agree entirely with Tom Palm. It’s the reason I will never fly on ANY airplane flown by a third world airline company.

As a pilot, aircraft engineer and having talked with several friends who have flown both Airbus and Boeing airliners, IMNSHO, the “solution” has been known for months and can be implemented fairly simply. I will not comment on why it hasn’t.

Cheers
 

tompalm

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Boeing believed too much of their own hype about the Max - that it operated exactly the same as the previous generations of the 737. As a result, they did not test as rigorously as they should have around the failure scenarios of the angle of attack sensors and MCAS system and how human pilots can be overloaded into making poor decisions.

Second, they made a big mistake in outsourcing too much of the Max flight avionics software development to offshore developers who have no aeronautics experience. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ax-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers

Finally, after they uncovered issues with their MCAS software prior to the first crash, they made the financially motivated decision not to ground the plane themselves.

The Boeing CEO needs to be held accountable.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
I understand why they built the Max and believe it had a lot to do with foreign airline pilots that fly around on autopilot all the time. As soon as they takeoff, and passing 400', autopilot on is pretty standard. Even auto lands become standard and with a lot of the foreign pilots not being very hands on. I believe Boeing thought that it was a great idea. But nobody bought it or did extra training to learn about it. If Air France had Max equipment that worked, the aircraft might not have crashed. I agree Boeing did not text it as rigorously as they should have. They should have included two AOAs on each aircraft also. But, Boeing wanted to make more money and none of the airlines that bought the Max cared about additional training. Boeing had a great product with the 737s and should not have changed it.
 
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