Going to a Presentation

[csalter2]

Hello All,

I am currently at the HGVC Convention Center property in Orlando. My wife is a Diamond Hilton Head member and they have been heavily pushing us to go since we got here. So we are going to go. We are Marriott owners so I doubt I will have any real interest in buying with Hilton. However, with that being said, what are some of the positive parts of the program?What should I be leery about from what the salesman say? From some of the posts here, I see that it’s a points program. What the difference between the developer price and the resale prices? If one were to buy resale points, what if any limitations does Hilton place on them? Finally, what are good incentives that they offer that make on consider buying with them? Any information would be appreciated.

 

[giowop]

Hello All,

I am currently at the HGVC Convention Center property in Orlando. My wife is a Diamond Hilton Head member and they have been heavily pushing us to go since we got here. So we are going to go. We are Marriott owners so I doubt I will have any real interest in buying with Hilton. However, with that being said, what are some of the positive parts of the program?What should I be leery about from what the salesman say? From some of the posts here, I see that it’s a points program. What the difference between the developer price and the resale prices? If one were to buy resale points, what if any limitations does Hilton place on them? Finally, what are good incentives that they offer that make on consider buying with them? Any information would be appreciated.

1. Resale! Always!!! Don't buy from the developer. My latest HGVC "offer" was $13,000 for 1600 points annually at the Elara in Vegas (note: HGVC points are totally different than Hilton Honors points). You can usually get around 7000 HGVC points resale from anywhere $3k - $6k depending on the property.

2. Points is nice because of flexibility. I think Marriott is like that too ?

3. Make sure there are places you'd really want to visit. Hawaii and Orlando have TON of places. Vegas, New York & Carlsbad, CA each have a few. After that, they are more sporadic.

4. There seem to be no limitations that I can tell between buying from HGVC and buying resale. HGVC doesn't seem to discriminate.

5. Give thanks for TUG. Thisbsitr has a wealth of knowledge. We were super close to jumping on an offer, declined, regretted it, and then quickly stopped regretting it once we found TUG.

P.s. out of curiosity, what do you like/dislike about Marriott?

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[Anthony Schmid]

The only difference between buying resale compared to developer prices is buying from Hilton counts towards Elite status. here is the link to Elite benefits. Everything else remains the same
https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/club-membership/elite/benefits

 

[csalter2]

1. Resale! Always!!! Don't buy from the developer. My latest HGVC "offer" was $13,000 for 1600 points annually at the Elara in Vegas (note: HGVC points are totally different than Hilton Honors points). You can usually get around 7000 HGVC points resale from anywhere $3k - $6k depending on the property.

2. Points is nice because of flexibility. I think Marriott is like that too ?

3. Make sure there are places you'd really want to visit. Hawaii and Orlando have TON of places. Vegas, New York & Carlsbad, CA each have a few. After that, they are more sporadic.

4. There seem to be no limitations that I can tell between buying from HGVC and buying resale. HGVC doesn't seem to discriminate.

5. Give thanks for TUG. Thisbsitr has a wealth of knowledge. We were super close to jumping on an offer, declined, regretted it, and then quickly stopped regretting it once we found TUG.

P.s. out of curiosity, what do you like/dislike about Marriott?

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Thank you for the information. I am not totally sure, but it seems as if maintenance fees might be cheaper with HGVC. It’s hard for me to compare since I don’t know what you’re points system gets you and where. I will do more research over time if necessary. However, I have read and heard positive things about Hilton’s timeshares.

There are many things that I like about Marriott especially since I am a weeks owner who can elect to go to points in any year. I love Marriott’s flexibility as well. I can use my week at my resorts. I have 2 bedroom lock off units that I can split and get two weeks instead of one for the same maintenance fee.

I like that I can make reservations up 13 months out if I am making consecutive or concurrent reservations. I can also make a reservation for ONE night which some timeshares require at least two. I also like the flexibility to save points and borrow points from year to year.

I like how the points can get me a 3 bedroom, a two bedroom or a studio depending on what my needs are for a specific trip which is what I am sure HGVC can do.

I also like that they have 67 locations. They have added about three hotel like resorts in San Diego, New York City and San Francisco as of late. I don’t particularly like that but it’s a presence in a major city so I get it’s expensive to build there.

I also like the quality of the resorts. They are always well kept and upgraded regularly. I know what I am getting.

What I don’t like are the annual maintenance fees increases. They seem to go up about 3-5 per cent annually. But I don’t think any timeshare owner likes the maintenance fees.

I also wish that there computer reservation system was more user friendly. One cannot cancel a reservation online. You have to call in to cancel a reservation. They are working on trying to improve the system especially since they have increased their footprints in the timeshare and hotel world by buying Westin, Sheraton and Hyatt and Starwood. Everyone is waiting to see the impact if any that will have on the Marriott timeshare world.

I have many more likes than dislikes. Many others like to take advantage of the tours to various countries. I don’t like using points for that because often I can get tours and cruises for much cheaper paying cash directly to the cruise or tour companies.

Overall it’s a great system if you know how to use it. No real complaints from me.

 

[csalter2]

The only difference between buying resale compared to developer prices is buying from Hilton counts towards Elite status. here is the link to Elite benefits. Everything else remains the same
https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/club-membership/elite/benefits

These elite benefits don’t seem like enough to discourage a person from buying resale. What are those phone and online reservation fees to which they refer?

 

[Anthony Schmid]

These elite benefits don’t seem like enough to discourage a person from buying resale. What are those phone and online reservation fees to which they refer?

https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/club-membership/hgv-club-fee-schedule

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[csalter2]

https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/club-membership/hgv-club-fee-schedule

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Are these fees per reservation? So if I wanted to make four reservations, I would have to pay one of these fees for each reservation?

Which fees does the average person have to pay to make their reservation?

 

[Anthony Schmid]

Each reservation will cost you $67. It is free to change a reservation in that same calendar year if something comes up, otherwise if you cancel, yhou will lose that reservation fee.
Here is the points chart for 2019
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?attachments/2019-hgv-points-open-chart-pdf.9813/

 

[brp]

What should I be leery about from what the salesman say?

Most everything

Seriously - if they say anything different from what you read here they're either lying or misinformed (and I've certainly come across both). Our last several HGVC presentations have been quite, dare I say, pleasant. Some before that, though, not so much.

As a rule, the collective "we" here know far more than they do, and we have no vested interest in giving you misinformation. You've clearly spent a bunch of time on the Marriott board. I don't know the folks there, but I'm sure that they are very much like us. Welcome.

Cheers.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Here are some of the differences.

HGVC charges a reservation fee for points. On the other hand, the points you get always equal the points you would use booking at the resort/season you got the point for. (No skim.)
Marriott doesn't charge for reservations, but skims around 15% of the points when you reserve. So you couldn't convert to points and point back into the same resort you converted from with your points.
Some appreciate the no reservation fees, other prefer the flexibility of being able to point back into the resort they converted from. (In both cases you pay, it's just <how> you pay. If you crunch the numbers, you'll find Marriott charges more.)


Marriott allows a separate booking period (13 months) for multiple week owners, and allows "walking" (with enough weeks) to book beyond the 13 month horizon, as long as you start at the 13 month horizon. (In other words, if you have 10 weeks, you can start at week 'x', at its 13 month window, and book 10 consecutive weeks into the future, before someone with only two weeks could do so. Then there is another booking period, starting at 12 months for both multiple week owners and then the single week owners get a chance.

Hilton is a totally different booking system. There is no multiweek booking option, each week has to be booked separately. (Some affiliates, like Bay Club have different booking systems, more on this as I go along.) There are separate booking windows, unlike Marriott. The first window is the "Home Week" window. This starts at 12 months out (affiliates may have different opening "Home Week" booking windows; there is a sticky on the HGVC about all the different affiliates), and lasts for 3 months. The only people who can book in this period are the owners of the individual weeks involved. They can only book what they own, not different room types. Once you get to 9 months out, then you can book with points, any week you want, (that has not already been booked by a home week owner) just like Marriott. (Or partial week. I think there is a 3 day minimum, but I don't know for certain.) There is a booking fee, but otherwise, points are points, there is no limitation. (I don't know about lock-offs, I always use home week, and Bay Club does not have lock-offs.)

Different system, with different priorities. HGVC caters to the non-trader, repeat user of the week purchased, giving the single week owner the same priority as the multiweek owner. They both have priority over traders. Marriott caters to 1. the multiweek owners over the single week owner, and (this comment is very controversial) point owners over week owners (IMHO). In the end, what are your preferences? They are structured for different target markets.

 

[dayooper]

Are these fees per reservation? So if I wanted to make four reservations, I would have to pay one of these fees for each reservation?

Which fees does the average person have to pay to make their reservation?

The $67 dollar fee is it (not including your club dues you pay with your MF’s). Where you get your savings is when you buy resale and depending where you buy, the MF’s are quite reasonable. Beside elite status, you lose nothing except money when you buy resale. You have the same booking window and reservation rights as anybody in the HGVC system.

I bought a 2 bedroom platinum at the Flamingo (7000 points, enough for a 2 bedroom in platinum season) for under $6500 out the door ($4500 for the unit, $1000 in Hilton fees, $800 for deed transfer and title and around $200 for other administrative fees/estoppel fee/ county recording). I paid a total of $1225 for MF’s and club dues. Not bad when the vacations I would take would cost me at least $3000 - $4000 to rent and even more to book through Hilton. I figure my purchase will have paid for itself in a few years.

Most here love the system, it’s flexibily and the ability to stretch your points. Since I’m a teacher and we still have kids in school, I’m stuck on a school schedule. In the future, when we can travel in different seasons and smaller units, we can make our points go even farther. By shortening your stays and reserving as many Monday-Thursday nights as you can, you will stretch it even further!

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Costs. . .

This is hard to compare, each location is different. On average, as best as one can compare "apples-to-apples", HGVC is cheaper. Based upon TUG opinions of people who have sampled a variety of both system, they seem to be basically equal, some a little better than the other, some a little worse.

Then sometimes they are far out of whack, price wise.

Example, Big Island Hawaii. The new (sic, the building is a hotel conversion, the hotel had been around for several decades) Marriott's cheapest view category, in the cheapest seasons, 2 BDR is 4175 points. 4175 x .58 Dollars per point gives you $2421.50 per week. You can get a Bay Club, Island View, (all of Bay Club is Island View) top floor, largest 2 BDR for $1608 per week. Or 1 1/2 week's worth of Bay Club for 1 week of Marriott.

Now if you want to play the Hilton point game, some of the Las Vegas 2BDRs have MFs of $1000 to $1200 a year. (Of course, they cost more than Bay Club aftermarket, They may have ROFR, and have value anyways because of the low MFs. Say you buy one with the total yearly cost of $1200 flat currently. Those point would get you a week at Bay Club for half of a Marriott Waikoloa week. 1/2 off for the same location strikes me as a good deal. (Bay Club is considered an easy trade, as it has no ROFR and with the higher MF's goes for a song. Short term owners would buy Bay Club at $1000 or so, and swap it for points, calculating that it would take 8-10 year before the higher MFs start costing more that the higher upfront for Vegas HGVCs. Which increases the pool of BC availables at the points window.)

You can play all sorts of games comparing Marriott with HGVC prices. HGVC has a broader range of location amenities, and a broader range of prices accordingly. You pays your money and to makes your choice. . .

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Resale. . .

Non of this pre-2010 to join the points system nonsense with HGVC. Every owner is treated equally, (except for elite status level) whether you bought new or resale. A positive for when you end up reselling your week, eventually. (When you get too old to travel.)

The Marriott point system is outrageous, not only is it costly, but Marriott gouges 20-25% percent of retail for every resale of points. That is money that should be going into your pocket.. . .

 

[brp]

Different system, with different priorities. HGVC caters to the non-trader, repeat user of the week purchased, giving the single week owner the same priority as the multiweek owner. They both have priority over traders. Marriott caters to 1. the multiweek owners over the single week owner, and (this comment is very controversial) point owners over week owners (IMHO). In the end, what are your preferences? They are structured for different target markets.

I'm glad you listed the comparison about the favoring of point owners as controversial, because I will beg to differ

Now, I don't know the Marriott system (so maybe a "comparison" is not in order from me), but we have only ever used our HGVC for points (never weeks) and I'd be hard-pressed to imagine any other system being more flexible on points use unless they allowed any owner at any location to book any other location at any time within the window, i.e. no home field advantage at all for owning somewhere. And maybe Marriott does have this, but it was not clear from the above. Absent that, though, I think that HGVC points use is about as flexible as it could be.

But there is a caveat not mentioned above. Some of the (also perhaps controversial) more desirable locations (city locations like NYC, DC, more to come) live in a different system with a different points structure. The booking windows for these "by Hilton Club" properties are much more limited for those not in this "club" than they are for other locations. That only matters, though, if you want to stay at those locations and don't own there.

Cheers.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I'm glad you listed the comparison about the favoring of point owners as controversial, because I will beg to differ

Now, I don't know the Marriott system (so maybe a "comparison" is not in order from me), but we have only ever used our HGVC for points (never weeks) and I'd be hard-pressed to imagine any other system being more flexible on points use unless they allowed any owner at any location to book any other location at any time within the window, i.e. no home field advantage at all for owning somewhere. And maybe Marriott does have this, but it was not clear from the above. Absent that, though, I think that HGVC points use is about as flexible as it could be.

But there is a caveat not mentioned above. Some of the (also perhaps controversial) more desirable locations (city locations like NYC, DC, more to come) live in a different system with a different points structure. The booking windows for these "by Hilton Club" properties are much more limited for those not in this "club" than they are for other locations. That only matters, though, if you want to stay at those locations and don't own there.

Cheers.

The bolded just described the Marriott system. The "controversial" comment was about the Marriott system. There is no transparency on how the Point system gets its inventory, in competition with the weeks owners.

 

[brp]

Git it. Thanks for the clarification.

Cheers.

 

[csalter2]

So I went on my presentation today and found it to be interesting. I was given the tour and of course the regular chit chat. I had a lady who says she owns HGVC herself. She told me her maintenance fee has only gone up $50 over the twenty-five years she has owned it, going from $1300 - $1350.

I was offered the following: 8400 points for $58,990. I was to was going to get 16,800 bonus points and my maintenance fees would be $1748.

Then I was offered 5000 points every other year for $16,220. The maintenance fee would be $1321 every other year and I would receive 8000 bonus points.

Of course, they really wanted me to buy right there and then and I told them I had to give it some more thought. I shared that I wanted to speak with some owners and get some feedback and she said well I showed you the testimonials and I was like that’s a one way read. I shared I had heard something about resale and she changed her attitude and became abrupt. I still tried to remain positive despite her apparent change in attitude. She explained how HGVC would buy it up since they have ROFR. I did not belabor anything.

Overall, the program seemed pretty good. I have been in the one bedroom here at the Convention Center, and the sales lady showed me the studio and the 2 bedroom. They were fine. If the maintenance fees were as low as she stated, that would be a better deal than Marriott’s. Also, it seems as if the number of weeks one could get for the price would be better than what one could get for the same price with Marriott.

One thing that I did not fully understand is how all of the resorts have the same points requirement for each season. She explained that high season in New York or Hawaii would be the same amount of points necessary for high season in Las Vegas or Orlando. Yet, people pay a different amount when they buy in those places. Seemed odd and the maintenance fees vary.

Overall, it seems interesting. Now let me see what the resale market is for those points.

 

[csalter2]

So I went on my presentation today and found it to be interesting. I was given the tour and of course the regular chit chat. I had a lady who says she owns HGVC herself. She told me her maintenance fee has only gone up $50 over the twenty-five years she has owned it, going from $1300 - $1350.

I was offered the following: 8400 points for $58,990. I was to was going to get 16,800 bonus points and my maintenance fees would be $1748.

Then I was offered 5000 points every other year for $16,220. The maintenance fee would be $1321 every other year and I would receive 8000 bonus points.

Of course, they really wanted me to buy right there and then and I told them I had to give it some more thought. I shared that I wanted to speak with some owners and get some feedback and she said well I showed you the testimonials and I was like that’s a one way read. I shared I had heard something about resale and she changed her attitude and became abrupt. I still tried to remain positive despite her apparent change in attitude. She explained how HGVC would buy it up since they have ROFR. I did not belabor anything.

Overall, the program seemed pretty good. I have been in the one bedroom here at the Convention Center, and the sales lady showed me the studio and the 2 bedroom. They were fine. If the maintenance fees were as low as she stated, that would be a better deal than Marriott’s. Also, it seems as if the number of weeks one could get for the price would be better than what one could get for the same price with Marriott.

One thing that I did not fully understand is how all of the resorts have the same points requirement for each season. She explained that high season in New York or Hawaii would be the same amount of points necessary for high season in Las Vegas or Orlando. Yet, people pay a different amount when they buy in those places. Seemed odd and the maintenance fees vary.

Overall, it seems interesting. Now let me see what the resale market is for those points.

Could not get this to post correctly.

 

[brp]

One thing that I did not fully understand is how all of the resorts have the same points requirement for each season. She explained that high season in New York or Hawaii would be the same amount of points necessary for high season in Las Vegas or Orlando. Yet, people pay a different amount when they buy in those places. Seemed odd and the maintenance fees vary.

This part is not correct. A good number of places do have the same points requirements. New York is not one of them. Some places in Hawai'i are similar if not exactly the same.

Different places have different desirability (and different MFs), hence the different rate. The by Hilton Club (locations) cost quite a bit more, for example.

Cheers.