• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Positive reason for ROFR

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
9,455
Reaction score
4,662
Points
649
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
What changes would you characterize as shafting the weeks owners? And why?

How about raising the commission when Marriott rents or sells your Week for you from 20% to 40%? How about devaluing the Points you get when you exchange your Week for Rewards Points? How about no longer managing the resale market as they did when I bought (and later sold) my Sabal Palms Week? How about encouraging Weeks Owners to switch to Points reducing Exchange alternatives?

George
 

csalter2

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
554
Points
473
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko Olina
Marriott Aruba Surf Club
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Diamond Resorts Gold
How about raising the commission when Marriott rents or sells your Week for you from 20% to 40%? How about devaluing the Points you get when you exchange your Week for Rewards Points? How about no longer managing the resale market as they did when I bought (and later sold) my Sabal Palms Week? How about encouraging Weeks Owners to switch to Points reducing Exchange alternatives?

George

Who about the sun rising so early in the morning. :). Just a little humor. However, my point is that perhaps Marriott or timesharing in general was not a good fit for you. All of those concerns you raised happen in all timeshare instances. Commissions being raised happens in businesses in general. In fact, Marriott does not even have to offer that service. Many timeshares don’t. Points devaluation happen with all systems. However, we must remember that some timeshares don’t even have a rewards system to offer. That is just an additional perk we happen to have because Marriott is a hotel system. I get nothing like that with my Diamond Resorts system. Managing the resale market is a joke because it is almost impossible. The only one that has some success is Disney and I am not sure if they control it. They are different because of the Disney parks that are attached to them. Any real estate is based upon what buyers will pay. Buyers are willing to pay for Disney due their parks. Encouraging weeks owners to switch to points is not a bad thing. There are many owners who prefer points. I at one time wished that Marriott did have a points system. Since my Diamond Resorts has always been points based, I like the flexibility if being to stay two or three days instead of a week. I particularly like being able to fly out on cheaper flights leaving on a Tuesday or Wednesday.

There are going ot be people who like or dislike a system. However, what is important here is that one has to remember what the signed up for by contract. Every weeks owner signed a contract that allowed them to do three basic things. One they can reside in their unit for a week or if they have a lock off, they can split it and use it for two weeks. Two, they can exchange their unit and trade into another property. Three, they can rent their week to another party. That’s truly it. Everything beyond that is GRAVY. Marriott can stop all of the rewards points, chairman levels, etc., etc., etc.

Remember, stay, exchange or rent. Period. That is what we signed up for. If one isn’t happy with the other perks, then we have the right to leave the system and find another one that we feel better suits our needs. Some of us do and are happy and some stick around and complain why they are not happy. I am not going to continue to pay maintenance fees for something that makes me miserable.
 

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,781
Reaction score
9,969
Points
499
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
How about raising the commission when Marriott rents or sells your Week for you from 20% to 40%? How about devaluing the Points you get when you exchange your Week for Rewards Points? How about no longer managing the resale market as they did when I bought (and later sold) my Sabal Palms Week? How about encouraging Weeks Owners to switch to Points reducing Exchange alternatives?

George
I don’t feel a week owner is shafted. As a week owner I feel I am protected the most. I have the guarantee to use my week.
 

OldGuy

Guest
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,564
Reaction score
576
Points
123
Resorts Owned
some
We have never been offered ROFR because we have never owned at a fancy-schmancy corporate controlled resort, but, why is it that they are not utilizing ROFR now, which some are saying is the case?

I can think of reasons, but would like to hear from those who might know.
 

csalter2

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
554
Points
473
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko Olina
Marriott Aruba Surf Club
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Diamond Resorts Gold
We have never been offered ROFR because we have never owned at a fancy-schmancy corporate controlled resort, but, why is it that they are not utilizing ROFR now, which some are saying is the case?

I can think of reasons, but would like to hear from those who might know.

Marriott has been exercising ROFR.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
2,886
Reaction score
3,518
Points
448
Location
Plano, Texas
And you believe that HGVC is much different or better. I’m currently at their property here in Orlando across from the convention center. It’s nice but small. They have reservation issues as well. As I have spoken to owners at the pool. I have never had an issue making a reservation of my choice at 12 months out as a platinum weeks owner. In addition, I have already made a reservation for a week at Grand Ocean for next using points as that’s not one of my home resorts.

I have asked some of your fellow HGVC owners about getting weeks 51/52 and they all stated impossible odds of getting those weeks in prime locations. I find the same difficulty with my Diamond Resorts properties.

The reality is that getting reservations during the holidays is competitive because those are high demand weeks. One cannot use the extreme outliers to make a point about the norm.

Dean stated that understanding the system and planning are the key. I am a firm believer of that and agree with him. However, I would also add patience is needed because sometimes what seemed impossible suddenly becomes possible through Interval International exchange or a waitlist number comes up and availability comes out and from nothing co

But HGVC is usually up-front about weeks 51/52. At Bay Club, they are fixed weeks, not part of the Platinum pool. As a matter of fact, a week 51 is available for sale here on TUG. It costs more than double the standard Platinum weeks . . .
 

OldGuy

Guest
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,564
Reaction score
576
Points
123
Resorts Owned
some
We have never been offered ROFR because we have never owned at a fancy-schmancy corporate controlled resort, but, why is it that they are not utilizing ROFR now, which some are saying is the case?

I can think of reasons, but would like to hear from those who might know.

I was able to close last month on a HGVC on the Boulevard. Gold season 5800 points for $2500.
- - - - - -
Just found out that Hilton waived ROFR today.
- - - - - -
HGVC declined to purchase it back. ROFR was not exercised.
 

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
9,455
Reaction score
4,662
Points
649
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Commissions being raised happens in businesses in general. In fact, Marriott does not even have to offer that service. Many timeshares don’t. Points devaluation happen with all systems. However, we must remember that some timeshares don’t even have a rewards system to offer. That is just an additional perk we happen to have because Marriott is a hotel system... Remember, stay, exchange or rent. Period. That is what we signed up for....

Marriott changed what I signed up for. In addition to stay, exchange or rent I was offered 20% rental and sales commissions, the ability to swap my Week for Reward Points at their then designated value. In addition all other Weeks were available for exchanges. Now many are no longer available having been swapped into points...If Marriott changing the rules is OK with you, fine. It was not OK with me. I did what you suggested and sold...

George
 

csalter2

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
554
Points
473
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko Olina
Marriott Aruba Surf Club
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Diamond Resorts Gold
Marriott changed what I signed up for. In addition to stay, exchange or rent I was offered 20% rental and sales commissions, the ability to swap my Week for Reward Points at their then designated value. In addition all other Weeks were available for exchanges. Now many are no longer available having been swapped into points...If Marriott changing the rules is OK with you, fine. It was not OK with me. I did what you suggested and sold...

George

Read your contract and you will find that that is NOT there. If it is, then you can hold them to it and say you signed up for that.

I’m no friend of Marriott’s. They have their faults. However, we must do our due diligence to protect ourselves. That’s why during the rescission period one should thoroughly read over the paperwork and/or have a lawyer review it. That’s just business. I have read of people going before a judge making claims that are NOT in writing. It’s not what the salesman says that counts, but what is in that contract.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,966
Reaction score
3,618
Points
648
How about raising the commission when Marriott rents or sells your Week for you from 20% to 40%? How about devaluing the Points you get when you exchange your Week for Rewards Points? How about no longer managing the resale market as they did when I bought (and later sold) my Sabal Palms Week? How about encouraging Weeks Owners to switch to Points reducing Exchange alternatives?

George
But those issues are shafting weeks owners. Timeshares, as the contract you agreed to on purchasing says (POS is a contract), should be bought to use and one should not expect returns on rental or sale. I don't see one issue you're raised that is negative to usage of the weeks system. No one could populate some potential issues related to availability due to the DC system, that would be a legitimate discussion although at this point it's only conjecture and in reality the DC system has likely been neutral or even helped weeks availability.

Marriott changed what I signed up for. In addition to stay, exchange or rent I was offered 20% rental and sales commissions, the ability to swap my Week for Reward Points at their then designated value. In addition all other Weeks were available for exchanges. Now many are no longer available having been swapped into points...If Marriott changing the rules is OK with you, fine. It was not OK with me. I did what you suggested and sold...

George
Were any of those included in the contractual obligation? The answer is no and specifically there is wording that non contractual services are not guaranteed. Timeshares change, that is the one constant. If the system no longer worked for you and you voted with your feet, that's appropriate. But don't confuse non guaranteed services or your personal situation with breach on the system side.
 

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,893
Reaction score
4,447
Points
599
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte) & Hilton Head Island, SC
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
We have never been offered ROFR because we have never owned at a fancy-schmancy corporate controlled resort, but, why is it that they are not utilizing ROFR now, which some are saying is the case?

I can think of reasons, but would like to hear from those who might know.

Not sure where you heard that Marriott is not exercising ROFR. They have been, and have actually been pretty aggressive with the prices they are paying for some properties, particularly Hawaii. Read the long ROFR thread in the stickies at the top of this forum.
 

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,893
Reaction score
4,447
Points
599
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte) & Hilton Head Island, SC
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
How about raising the commission when Marriott rents or sells your Week for you from 20% to 40%? How about devaluing the Points you get when you exchange your Week for Rewards Points? How about no longer managing the resale market as they did when I bought (and later sold) my Sabal Palms Week? How about encouraging Weeks Owners to switch to Points reducing Exchange alternatives?

George

Marriott changed what I signed up for. In addition to stay, exchange or rent I was offered 20% rental and sales commissions, the ability to swap my Week for Reward Points at their then designated value. In addition all other Weeks were available for exchanges. Now many are no longer available having been swapped into points...If Marriott changing the rules is OK with you, fine. It was not OK with me. I did what you suggested and sold...

George

Show me one business in ANY industry that hasn't altered their business model of the last 20-30 years and I'll show you business that probably doesn't exist any more. Change is a constant. We have to adapt to it. You adapted by selling, others of us adapt by altering the way we do things. I travel differently today than I did 10 years ago. I do a lot of things differently than I did 10 or 20 years ago. Millennials travel differently than Baby Boomers like me and if a company like Marriott Vacations wants to survive they have to adapt to changing tastes, values, and ideas. Some of those changes forced me to try new things that I might not have been totally comfortable with at first, but guess what? When I tried the new way, I liked it.

We can sit around all day bemoaning "the good old days" and complaining about how things are changing, or we can look around us, see the change and embrace it, try it, see what a new way looks like. It's sort of like something a good friend of mine who recently passed away used to say..."Live it up. These ARE the good old days."
 

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
9,455
Reaction score
4,662
Points
649
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
I'm not going to prolong this any more. I understand what isn't in the contract isn't binding. I also can understand that others are willing to accept the new status quo. I made a choice (selling) that I'm comfortable with. I have no problem with those who don't see it my way. Different opinions are what make the world go around...

George
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,966
Reaction score
3,618
Points
648
I'm not going to prolong this any more. I understand what isn't in the contract isn't binding. I also can understand that others are willing to accept the new status quo. I made a choice (selling) that I'm comfortable with. I have no problem with those who don't see it my way. Different opinions are what make the world go around...

George
I agree but I am still looking for examples of where weeks owners have been harmed by changes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jme

jme

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
4,820
Reaction score
3,126
Points
598
Location
Southeast,TUG since '98
Resorts Owned
Marriotts:
Grande Ocean x 6
Barony x 2
OceanWatch x 1
Manor Club x 1
.
Waterside by Spin x 2
Sheraton Bdw Pln x2
ChurchSt/Charleston x2
Nice response, JIMinNC!

Regarding the post to which you responded, I DID in fact receive exactly what I signed up for.......
and it's spelled out in the contract. (Ever hear the advice, "Read the instructions!"?)
And that is, specifically, a deeded week in my season at the resort I chose. Nothing more, nothing less.

Peripheral stuff has changed (that is a given in this world)....the points program was instituted, sure,
but I still get my week, and have never failed to get it.
Trading was never guaranteed but only an "add-on" perk for owning a deeded resort week.
I've also never failed to get a trade I sought, not one time.
And I will still benefit from trades....that program is not going away.

As you rightly point out, all industries must change for their good and for their survival, which usually translates into
the good of the customer/client. I'm happy they are doing well, and frankly with all the enhancements (and the ability to
enroll my weeks in the point system at a cheap price, imho), my options have actually INCREASED tremendously.
And by adding more properties on the hotel side, again I have more choices and more flexibility....
far MORE than I signed up for.

I always knew it would not be something that would appreciate in value,
but would instead serve my purposes as the answer to my family's enjoyment of vacation time at high quality places.
I have not been disappointed, and it truly bothers me to hear the constant whiny prattle of those who had false
and naive expectations.
 

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,781
Reaction score
9,969
Points
499
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
Own a fixed week in a Resort where and when you wouldn’t mind going and if other options don’t work out there is nothing to worry about. You can enjoy other options if available.

The problem is most timeshare buyers never read their contract and buy without researching thus the problems and disappointments.

My Hgvc system weeks are when and where I wouldn’t mind going. Most others say buy lowest cost, highest points, lowest mf as you can book anywhere, as the system won’t change.

My insurance policy is I own where and when I wouldn’t mind going. Right now I deposit my weeks at times for points and enjoy what hgvc has to offer today. I do not have to worry about availability at my home resort if I choose to use it or if rules change in the future.
 

OldGuy

Guest
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,564
Reaction score
576
Points
123
Resorts Owned
some
Not sure where you heard that Marriott is not exercising ROFR.

Did you read the post four above yours, where I clarified the posts I was referring to?
 

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,893
Reaction score
4,447
Points
599
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte) & Hilton Head Island, SC
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
Did you read the post four above yours, where I clarified the posts I was referring to?

Your clarification post referred to HGVC ROFR situations, but this is on the Marriott board, so that is what I was discussing.

But as it regards ROFR in general, and HGVC specifically, just because HGVC chose not to exercise on those transactions, does not mean they don't exercise below a certain price. Two of the three examples in that post don't have a price, and the one that does - a Gold Season 5800 point HGVC in Vegas - is not something they would likely be willing to ROFR at an aggressive price. Marriott also waives ROFR on many transactions that are above the price at which they think it makes sense (I've managed to get them to waive on two in the last 18 months myself), but they also exercise ROFR on many transactions. As I said above, look at the ROFR sticky in this thread or go to ROFR.net to see the prices they have exercised on recently.

Both HGVC and Marriott do actively and frequently use ROFR to re-acquire cheap inventory - it's cheaper for Marriott than building new resorts to fund the Trust with points inventory, and for HGVC it's a way to keep the sales engine going at sold our or nearly sold out resorts. Do they buy back everything that gets presented to them? No. But they will if it's cheap enough.
 

OldGuy

Guest
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,564
Reaction score
576
Points
123
Resorts Owned
some
So sorry.

When I log on, I start with Recent Posts, and look at the topics, not what board it's on.

My first question is still valid for those companies that are not using ROFR, which I recalled from reading, again not paying attention to the boards.

I will try to do better.

:cool:
 

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,893
Reaction score
4,447
Points
599
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte) & Hilton Head Island, SC
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
So sorry.

When I log on, I start with Recent Posts, and look at the topics, not what board it's on.

My first question is still valid for those companies that are not using ROFR, which I recalled from reading, again not paying attention to the boards.

I will try to do better.

:cool:

My only experience with ROFR outside of Marriott and HGVC is when we sold our previous ownership in a Diamond Resort (Kaanapali Beach Club). That resort has a ROFR provision, but I was told by a broker that Diamond rarely, if ever, utilizes ROFR. My theory is that since so many of the "non-hotel-branded" timeshares have little to no value, and since many of those developers have historically used more aggressive sales tactics than the hotel-affiliated companies, they have a lot more unhappy owners who are willing to default or deed-back their weeks, so they don't need to use ROFR to re-acquire inventory. Higher quality brands like Marriott, Westin, and HGVC actually have value and have more happy owners, so those companies use ROFR to supplement their inventory.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,966
Reaction score
3,618
Points
648
So sorry.

When I log on, I start with Recent Posts, and look at the topics, not what board it's on.

My first question is still valid for those companies that are not using ROFR, which I recalled from reading, again not paying attention to the boards.

I will try to do better.

:cool:
What systems don't have ROFR? Besides the discussions here so does Bluegreen, DVC and Wyndham. If the question is how do they decide to be active ROFR and at what level, I don't think any of us know directly. In general they use ROFR to prevent firesafes and push new buyers to retail rather than resale. But they also might take the chance to make a few $ they might not make otherwise. Given the high profit and marketing costs on the new properties, they have to get the properties at around 50% of retail just to break even compared to a new property and that means they're competing with their retail business in addition. They also have to move properties they get from foreclosure due to maintenance fees or mortgage defaults. They also have to have the liquidity and decide that's a good use of those dollars.
 

OldGuy

Guest
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,564
Reaction score
576
Points
123
Resorts Owned
some
What systems don't have ROFR?

Similar to what I said somewhere yesterday, none for the resorts and people who owned timeshares when TUG started.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,966
Reaction score
3,618
Points
648
Similar to what I said somewhere yesterday, none for the resorts and people who owned timeshares when TUG started.
That's not accurate I don't believe. Marriott put in ROFR with Grande Ocean I believe as the first circa 1991-92. DVC had it from the go 1991. Pretty sure Bluegreen had it from the start of their points system if not before with only fixed weeks. I can't speak for anything else.
 

TheTimeTraveler

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
5,979
Reaction score
2,880
Points
648
Location
Florida
Also an interesting point; Marriott's Summit Watch did not have ROFR at time of Developer sale and somehow Marriott was able to institute it many years later after the final build out.

Don't ask me how. Maybe someone else knows the answer.





.
 
Top