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Marriott/Vistana overlay

LisaRex

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Haven't owned a TS in a long time, but every time I think about maybe getting one, I read threads like this one that dissuade me from doing it. Both Marriott and Starwood/Vistana complicated their own product by switching from deeded weeks to points mid-stream, which only muddied the water. They further complicated their own product by assigning "points" based on something OTHER than supply and demand. In short: If a 2 bdrm ocean front resort in Hawaii can command $3000 in rent, while a 2 bdrm pool view resort in Orlando can only command $1500, then the former should be assigned 2x the points. End of story. (I've owned in both places.)

When they pulled shenanigans like they did at WLR, and increased SOs in order to increase sales, IMO they ruined their own points system. Because no one wants to exchange into a resort using points, if what they pay in MFs exceeds rental rates.

Had they based points on supply and demand and stuck to that method, then no one would have to get a stomachache thinking that they made a terrible mistake in buying, and no one would have worry that MVC is going to greatly devalue their resort. So my advice to them, as if they want it, is to base points on something everyone understands and that is the good old US$.
 

DannyTS

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Haven't owned a TS in a long time, but every time I think about maybe getting one, I read threads like this one that dissuade me from doing it. Both Marriott and Starwood/Vistana complicated their own product by switching from deeded weeks to points mid-stream, which only muddied the water. They further complicated their own product by assigning "points" based on something OTHER than supply and demand. In short: If a 2 bdrm ocean front resort in Hawaii can command $3000 in rent, while a 2 bdrm pool view resort in Orlando can only command $1500, then the former should be assigned 2x the points. End of story. (I've owned in both places.)

When they pulled shenanigans like they did at WLR, and increased SOs in order to increase sales, IMO they ruined their own points system. Because no one wants to exchange into a resort using points, if what they pay in MFs exceeds rental rates.

Had they based points on supply and demand and stuck to that method, then no one would have to get a stomachache thinking that they made a terrible mistake in buying, and no one would have worry that MVC is going to greatly devalue their resort. So my advice to them, as if they want it, is to base points on something everyone understands and that is the good old US$.
Except that in case of WLR the time proved them right. The resort is at 92%average capacity. Since Sept _ Nov are very slow months it means the resort is close to 100 % the rest of the year so people clearly see value there
 

CPNY

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Ken, this is a really good post -- very thoughtful, constructive and honest. I agree with your comments on Canyon Villas and Shadow Ridge -- both appear to be mass produced timeshares where I wake up and --boom -- there are 000's of units with little creativity (Canyon Villas is actually smaller, but feels the same). Some of the Orlando properties have the same feel -- just huge timeshares, and they are what they are. I've not been to Kierland and will look forward to visiting it.

I also rarely post a rating and I should. I absolutely loved WPORV and WKORV/N -- fabulous properties. HRA was amazing, but the property showed the wear and tear -- just like Marriott Aruba Ocean Club did -- I remember posting on this somewhere and wondering if this was a Caribbean thing.

We will see -- but thanks again for your post and your candor.

A curiosity -- if an Overlay was introduced similar to what we have speculated (either enroll your Vistana week and get Marriott points, OR get a fixed number of Marriott Points in exchange for your StarOptions), how many Vistana owners would want to enroll?

I know there's many unknowns, but assume that you can get almost like for like -- (Marriott did invent skimming after all) -- perhaps you can get 4,250 Marriott DC Points for your 148,100 StarOptions? That's enough for a 2BR in Aruba or St. Thomas (but not enough for a 2BR in Hawaii).

Would you enroll your week in the Marriott system, and decide each year whether you wanted to keep it as a Starwood week (or elect the Marriott points)?

Best,

Greg

Great stuff to read through on this thread. So I reached out to VSE to purchase more and spoke with them today. Naturally I wouldn’t buy from the developer but I wanted to see the going rate for things. Now keep this in mind, it came from sales and as they said “imagine what the price would be if we released the resorts we plan on adding”. I was unofficially told a new program is coming 3Q-4Q and will may allow cross booking. They said anything out there now is all rumor as no one really knows what to expect. Everything is a rumor and it was all speculation on the street. I’ve been saying for a while they should allow for inter program bookings within a 6 or 3 Mo booking window or something. It seems that was floated out there by the sales guy during hypothetical scenarios. “Maybe they allow booking at 6 Mo or some sort of “exchange”.

Personally I would never convert my SO units to DP, I would go through II exchange as my times are very flexible. It will be interesting to see if they screw the buyers who purchased on resale.
 

CPNY

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I don't expect them to require one to turn over their deeds in order to enroll. If they offer some type of enrollment, it will be like they did with the Marriott DC program. You don't sign over your deeds and you just elect points from one year to the next. I would expect an enrollment offer to be very attractive to those that own voluntary resale resorts. Perhaps not as much for those that own Mandatory or direct developer purchases.

I don’t see why voluntary would see a more attractive offer. I see those who own voluntary especially purchased on the resale market with no SO usage would have to pay more to play in the sandbox. Give me a less of an appealing offer to convert into a new program because I own two mandatory resorts and oh well, I’ll just use my SO and stay in my Westin resorts

Personally I think it will end up like an “exchange”. Exchange a unit for a lesser than or equal to unit from MVC to VSE and vice versa, and/or use your Bonvoy type points to open inventory that was bought back at say 6 mo prior to arrival. They are selling flex points for Sheraton and Westin as well as DP points. I think keeping things separate and upcharging for all to new and existing owners is how they will make money. Time will tell. I just wish they added more Westin timeshare resorts to the VSE portfolio.
 

ocdb8r

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Haven't owned a TS in a long time, but every time I think about maybe getting one, I read threads like this one that dissuade me from doing it. Both Marriott and Starwood/Vistana complicated their own product by switching from deeded weeks to points mid-stream, which only muddied the water.

I don't blame you - I am well committed currently with units in Vistana, Hilton and Hyatt. Every year we use them I compare rental rates at the resort with my true all in costs (including all the various membership and other ancillary fees on top of maintenance) and the relative value we receive has been steadily declining. If I did the work to factor in the cost of capital (despite all being bought resale for pretty decent prices) there are some weeks where we effectively spent a bit more than had we just rented the unit. The only saving grace has been that (so far) I have been able to rent weeks we're not able to use and cover the maintenance fees (and usually a small profit over). However, it's NOT easy and the administration of it all sometimes makes me wonder if it's all worth it. When the systems get further complicated and add additional fees, both the cost and administration start to tip the scales.

They further complicated their own product by assigning "points" based on something OTHER than supply and demand. In short: If a 2 bdrm ocean front resort in Hawaii can command $3000 in rent, while a 2 bdrm pool view resort in Orlando can only command $1500, then the former should be assigned 2x the points. End of story. (I've owned in both places.)

When they pulled shenanigans like they did at WLR, and increased SOs in order to increase sales, IMO they ruined their own points system. Because no one wants to exchange into a resort using points, if what they pay in MFs exceeds rental rates.

Had they based points on supply and demand and stuck to that method, then no one would have to get a stomachache thinking that they made a terrible mistake in buying, and no one would have worry that MVC is going to greatly devalue their resort. So my advice to them, as if they want it, is to base points on something everyone understands and that is the good old US$.

I think the one thing you forget to factor in is that the "points" systems themselves CREATE supply and demand. In other words, you can't make this calculation as if there is a completely independent market looking at the accommodations. These timeshare systems create a completely captive audience with limited/fixed currency (which everyone invested in at different rates). Bottom line: 1) supply and demand to book using points is likely to look very different from supply and demand using cash and 2) the assignment of points values to different seasons will in itself drive supply and demand. DVC is a great example - fall season is typically one of the slowest for Disney (let's set aside the debate about it ALWAYS being busy these days) yet it is often one of the MOST in demand seasons in DVC (due in large part to the way they assigned points for that season).

As I mentioned in another post, MVC DC points actually does a good job of doing exactly what you said - seasons and weeks are meticulously split to adjust point costs throughout the year. However, to me, it creates SUCH a complicated system that it's frustrating. Sure, it's totally usable and likely matches true demand better, but it is in NO way easy to use and predictable. If I want to "invest" in a timeshare today to "lock in" my vacation costs for years to come, it's impossible. There's no way I could reasonably predict how many points I would need in any given year (more than a year out).


I don’t see why voluntary would see a more attractive offer. I see those who own voluntary especially purchased on the resale market with no SO usage would have to pay more to play in the sandbox. Give me a less of an appealing offer to convert into a new program because I own two mandatory resorts and oh well, I’ll just use my SO and stay in my Westin resorts.

Well, I could make one argument from Marriott's perspective - if a voluntary resort is enrolled ONLY in the DC (and not in SVN) then the DC system doesn't need to compete with SVN for that inventory. I agree though, I don't think this will happen. It would be such a slap in the face to people who purchased from the developer that MVC would never do it. But it means there's going to be a serious game to be played managing BOTH SVN and DC inventory in such a way that people feel they're getting actual "access" to the other resorts. I can't see any way that SVN/StarOption exchanges don't end up marginalized in the long run.
 
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teddyo333

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Well, I could make one argument from Marriott's perspective - if a voluntary resort is enrolled ONLY in the DC (and not in SVN) then the DC system doesn't need to compete with SVN for that inventory. I agree though, I don't think this will happen. It would be such a slap in the face to people who purchased from the developer that MVC would never do it. But it means there's going to be a serious game to be played managing BOTH SVN and DC inventory in such a way that people feel they're getting actual "access" to the other resorts. I can't see any way that SVN/StarOption exchanges don't end up marginalized in the long run.


I agree with your statement. I do feel that "SVN/StarOption exchanges" will become marginalized in the long run. This is the reason why I have been concentrating on purchasing more properties where I enjoy vacationing. For example, I originally purchased Vistana Villages (Bella) & Kierland in order to exchange into WKORV with Star Options. This worked for me since we tend to travel to Maui in May which is considered a low season. But with the consolidation of MVC & Vistana exchange programs I do feel there may be more competition for internal exchanges. It would make sense if they implemented the following structure for exchanges:

Home Resort - 12 Months
Star Options - 8 Months
Start Option & MVC - 6 Months

This would be fair for existing owners and would allow individuals to experience both programs. This would also allow owners who "invested" in their respective programs to have priority. But if Marriott decides to have a structure like the following:

Home Resort - 12 Months
Start Option & MVC - 8 Months

It will be make exchanges very difficult for existing owners as well as devalue Star Options to an extent. Popular places like Maui, Cancun or Scottsdale will be especially difficult at the 8 Month mark. Time will tell but profit is Marriott's priority and I'm quite certain that they will push the envelop as much as they can. It's funny how it always comes back to the best advice I was given when I started my timeshare hobby; "Purchase where you want to vacation on a regular basis".
 

CalGalTraveler

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CalGal,

Yes you can enroll your week but never actually redeem it for points, and then simply rent what is needed. I rarely redeem my MOC 3BR because it is more valuable as a rental then as a points generator. But I like to rent points from others and do so frequently to give myself new options.

I will be very curious to see what gets introduced. Perhaps it will be a simple fixed ratio of StarOptions for DC points, and then offer “specials” for certain SVN properties that are particularly attractive, something like 50% more points to redeem it for the first year (and then make that promotion permanent if they buy points). They will want people to play with points b ecause it is their experience that once people try points, they stay with points (and buy more).

Interesting - all my speculation of course.

Best,

Greg

Thanks Greg for clarifying. If we don't lose our mandatory resort status, the ability to use and rent MVC points may be the best reason to enroll. Like you, we would rarely convert our Maui OF to trade. Of course enrollment would have to cost much less than buying a low points package resale.

To set boundaries to compare to enrollment, how much does the smallest trust resale point package cost? and what are the associated MF?
 
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pchung6

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I don't think MVC will just complete integrate the 2 systems (DC and SVN) when each has many happy owners. Why would MVC anger their owners when both systems seem working fine separately?

I think MVC's goal is to maximize profit. So I predict it will be kind of buy-in option for DC or SVN to allow owners exchange DC points to SOs or vice versa while keeping SVN and DC separated. If you are DC owner and you want go to Westin Cancun, buy the option for let's say ~$3000-5000. Then you can exchange your DC points to StarOptions at a fixed rate and reserve at 8 months. I think this could be much easy sale to many owners in each system.
 
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4Sunsets

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By the way, according to ARC, this year Cancun will be again the number one destination for American tourists, so clearly those that go there see things very differently than those who experience Mexico just on TV. So it is hard for me to see how the MVC owners will not benefit from the addition of the Mexican resorts.

"The top 10 summer destinations by airline ticket transactions include:

  1. Cancun, Mexico
  2. New York
  3. Orlando, Florida
  4. London
  5. Las Vegas
  6. Punta Cana, Dominican Republic
  7. Seattle
  8. Honolulu
  9. Los Angeles
  10. Chicago"

Cancun Again Ranks as Number One Destination for US Fliers this Summer
https://www2.arccorp.com/about-us/newsroom/2019-news-releases/pr20190605/#


I'm sure it will be. Sort of like the car salesmen with the "If you can't give me an all 5-star rating" things... or like lemmings off a cliff... :wall::crash:
 

4Sunsets

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Haven't owned a TS in a long time, but every time I think about maybe getting one, I read threads like this one that dissuade me from doing it. Both Marriott and Starwood/Vistana complicated their own product by switching from deeded weeks to points mid-stream, which only muddied the water. They further complicated their own product by assigning "points" based on something OTHER than supply and demand. In short: If a 2 bdrm ocean front resort in Hawaii can command $3000 in rent, while a 2 bdrm pool view resort in Orlando can only command $1500, then the former should be assigned 2x the points. End of story. (I've owned in both places.)

When they pulled shenanigans like they did at WLR, and increased SOs in order to increase sales, IMO they ruined their own points system. Because no one wants to exchange into a resort using points, if what they pay in MFs exceeds rental rates.

Had they based points on supply and demand and stuck to that method, then no one would have to get a stomachache thinking that they made a terrible mistake in buying, and no one would have worry that MVC is going to greatly devalue their resort. So my advice to them, as if they want it, is to base points on something everyone understands and that is the good old US$.

We actually like the points system. We have both weeks and points. Hilton is the one where a like-sized platinum week in Hawaii is the same point cost as a like-sized platinum week in Timbuktu (with exceptions).

In the Marriott system, the point cost is based on season and location. A Hawaii platinum week is much more than a Timbuktu platinum week (generally). For example, it could be 7200 points for 1 platinum Maui week in a 2-bedroom but 4800 for 1 platinum week somewhere else.
 

CalGalTraveler

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We actually like the points system. We have both weeks and points. Hilton is the one where a like-sized platinum week in Hawaii is the same point cost as a like-sized platinum week in Timbuktu (with exceptions).

In the Marriott system, the point cost is based on season and location. A Hawaii platinum week is much more than a Timbuktu platinum week (generally). For example, it could be 7200 points for 1 platinum Maui week in a 2-bedroom but 4800 for 1 platinum week somewhere else.

True, HGVC doesn't differentiate much based on location. Where they charge more points is on the newer properties. The Grand Islander in Oahu, NYC, Barbados and upcoming Maui properties have/will have higher point requirements for an equivalently sized unit. The good news is that one can purchase another 7k+ Vegas or other inexpensive resale and still have great access to these.
 
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TravelTime

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I am wondering if Marriott International might buy the Hyatt brand. Hyatt is independent and it would be a nice fit with Marriott Vacation Club, if they keep Hyatt. Otherwise, might they re-brand HRC? Hyatt owner love their system and product. Hyatt has a great reputation in the hotel world.
 

CPNY

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I agree with your statement. I do feel that "SVN/StarOption exchanges" will become marginalized in the long run. This is the reason why I have been concentrating on purchasing more properties where I enjoy vacationing. For example, I originally purchased Vistana Villages (Bella) & Kierland in order to exchange into WKORV with Star Options. This worked for me since we tend to travel to Maui in May which is considered a low season. But with the consolidation of MVC & Vistana exchange programs I do feel there may be more competition for internal exchanges. It would make sense if they implemented the following structure for exchanges:

Home Resort - 12 Months
Star Options - 8 Months
Start Option & MVC - 6 Months

This would be fair for existing owners and would allow individuals to experience both programs. This would also allow owners who "invested" in their respective programs to have priority. But if Marriott decides to have a structure like the following:

Home Resort - 12 Months
Start Option & MVC - 8 Months

It will be make exchanges very difficult for existing owners as well as devalue Star Options to an extent. Popular places like Maui, Cancun or Scottsdale will be especially difficult at the 8 Month mark. Time will tell but profit is Marriott's priority and I'm quite certain that they will push the envelop as much as they can. It's funny how it always comes back to the best advice I was given when I started my timeshare hobby; "Purchase where you want to vacation on a regular basis".

I don’t see the latter scenario you laid out. The first scenario is something that was kicked around when I spoke with Vistana as they spoke in hypothetical situations. Personally I’d like to see it even lower at 3 months. I bought Vistana for a reason and not Marriott. Personally I don’t like Marriott hotels/resorts. So it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I’ll just enjoy Bahamas and exchange into aruba if need be.
 

CPNY

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I am wondering if Marriott International might buy the Hyatt brand. Hyatt is independent and it would be a nice fit with Marriott Vacation Club, if they keep Hyatt. Otherwise, might they re-brand HRC? Hyatt owner love their system and product. Hyatt has a great reputation in the hotel world.
I thought MVC owned Hyatt as well
 

CPNY

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I'm sure it will be. Sort of like the car salesmen with the "If you can't give me an all 5-star rating" things... or like lemmings off a cliff... :wall::crash:
Keep in mind that people love their all you can eat buffets. Cancun and the rest of Mexico is big on AI. Personally I don’t care for AI
 

dioxide45

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I thought MVC owned Hyatt as well
They do, but without Marriott International owning the Hyatt brand, it leads many of us to believe that VAC can't fully integrate it in to any combined system with Westin, Sheraton and the Marriott timeshare brands.
 

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Keep in mind that people love their all you can eat buffets. Cancun and the rest of Mexico is big on AI. Personally I don’t care for AI

Same w my family :D
 

TravelTime

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Haven't owned a TS in a long time, but every time I think about maybe getting one, I read threads like this one that dissuade me from doing it. Both Marriott and Starwood/Vistana complicated their own product by switching from deeded weeks to points mid-stream, which only muddied the water. They further complicated their own product by assigning "points" based on something OTHER than supply and demand. In short: If a 2 bdrm ocean front resort in Hawaii can command $3000 in rent, while a 2 bdrm pool view resort in Orlando can only command $1500, then the former should be assigned 2x the points. End of story. (I've owned in both places.)

When they pulled shenanigans like they did at WLR, and increased SOs in order to increase sales, IMO they ruined their own points system. Because no one wants to exchange into a resort using points, if what they pay in MFs exceeds rental rates.

Had they based points on supply and demand and stuck to that method, then no one would have to get a stomachache thinking that they made a terrible mistake in buying, and no one would have worry that MVC is going to greatly devalue their resort. So my advice to them, as if they want it, is to base points on something everyone understands and that is the good old US$.

Didn’t they generally do this? Their rental rate and Expedia is always high than MFs.
 

CPNY

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They do, but without Marriott International owning the Hyatt brand, it leads many of us to believe that VAC can't fully integrate it in to any combined system with Westin, Sheraton and the Marriott timeshare brands.
I thought I had read that MVC was planning on selling the Hyatt TS portion.
 

TravelTime

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I'm sure it will be. Sort of like the car salesmen with the "If you can't give me an all 5-star rating" things... or like lemmings off a cliff... :wall::crash:

The places on this top 10 list are accessible and mass market destinations and large cities.
 

TravelTime

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Haven't owned a TS in a long time, but every time I think about maybe getting one, I read threads like this one that dissuade me from doing it. Both Marriott and Starwood/Vistana complicated their own product by switching from deeded weeks to points mid-stream, which only muddied the water. They further complicated their own product by assigning "points" based on something OTHER than supply and demand. In short: If a 2 bdrm ocean front resort in Hawaii can command $3000 in rent, while a 2 bdrm pool view resort in Orlando can only command $1500, then the former should be assigned 2x the points. End of story. (I've owned in both places.)

When they pulled shenanigans like they did at WLR, and increased SOs in order to increase sales, IMO they ruined their own points system. Because no one wants to exchange into a resort using points, if what they pay in MFs exceeds rental rates.

Had they based points on supply and demand and stuck to that method, then no one would have to get a stomachache thinking that they made a terrible mistake in buying, and no one would have worry that MVC is going to greatly devalue their resort. So my advice to them, as if they want it, is to base points on something everyone understands and that is the good old US$.

I agree with you in general. However, In high season WLR is booked with owners so they might have done okay.
 

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MVC now owns HRC through the purchase of ILG. When ILG made the deal with Hyatt to purchase HRC, part of that deal was that no other hotel branded entity could control the Hyatt brand that was part of HRC. Now one does, but you don’t hear Hyatt threatening a lawsuit. This means either there is a deal to sell off HRC, there is a deal to eventually remove the Hyatt name and do something with the properties (ie, rebrand or create a new brand), or MVC is paying Hyatt enough money for the use of their brand to keep them quiet. My guess is somewhere between #2 and #3. If I were MVC, I would only want to pay what must be a massive branding fee for just long enough to create a new brand with the properties. Rebranding under an existing brand (ie, Westin) would be more difficult than slapping a new name on the product and keeping the contracts the same. It will probably take place sometime after Marriott gets done with Vistana (overlay, integration, whatever their plans may be).

Also, if the idea that Marriott will start to target each timeshare brand to different target markets is true, I can see whatever the Hyatt brand will become as an opportunity for Marriott.
 

controller1

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I am wondering if Marriott International might buy the Hyatt brand. Hyatt is independent and it would be a nice fit with Marriott Vacation Club, if they keep Hyatt. Otherwise, might they re-brand HRC? Hyatt owner love their system and product. Hyatt has a great reputation in the hotel world.

That may be a difficult purchase with the Pritzker family owning most of Hyatt.
 

ocdb8r

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I don't see any short or medium term chance Marriott International gets anywhere near the Hyatt name....but never say never.

As has been pointed out, the MVC purchase of ILG is a complicated one. I guarantee you that they didn't just complete the purchase on the basis they would "figure it out" later as regards Hyatt Vacation Club. There most certainly was an agreement struck between MVC and Hyatt as to the brand licensing at least for the short/medium term. I suspect Hyatt enjoys a nice revenue stream that they had no desire to jeopardize as the larger hotel market adjusts to the Marriott/Starwood merger. Likely they agreed to allow MVC to continue the brand license under some strict guidelines for a 3-5 year period. MVC clearly intends to (and needs to) sort out how to "harmonize" the Marriott and Vistana timeshare portfolios as a priority and will then turn to Hyatt subsequently.

One thing I think is often forgotten (or just glossed over) on these Boards is that MVC is NOT owned or controlled by Marriott. It's a completely separate legal entity with completely separate shareholding, management and Board of Directors. They simply license the Marriott name...and of course have very strong historic ties. However, there's nothing preventing them from pursuing a strategy independent of Marriott International. I mention this because it is possible MVC finds a way to get Hyatt comfortable with a longer term licensing strategy and they continue to use the Hyatt name for "vacation ownership" uses. I'm curious to see if MVC pursues the "borg like" strategy of Marriott International or if it perhaps decides there is some value in maintaining some brand distinction. Nothing prevents them from harmonizing all the back end operations while maintaining a distinct brand identity for Hyatt.

In fact, that last part is one of the single biggest open questions in my mind for MVC. Marriott International has been very clear that it intends to maintain the 30+ separate brands under the hotel umbrellas and contends that it can maintain brand distinction and differentiation. This is something I think the MVC (and the timeshare industry in general) has done a fairly poor job at. MVC has always lumped everything under the Marriott name (save for a few Ritz destination club locations which seem to me to have been largely been disastrous ventures); while Vistana has Westin, Sheraton and Vistana branded locations, I couldn't tell you how they really differ from a brand identity standpoint. With multiple brands now under it's belt, I wonder if/how MVC will differentiate them.

One thing we've not talked about in this thread is how the execution of the Marriott International merger may be effecting the timing and approach of MVC as it comes to Vistana. I don't think it's off base to say the execution hasn't been great and many loyalty members on BOTH sides are not happy about vaiorus things. If I were MVC, I'd be watching to make sure to avoid the same issues and may even be deciding whether or not there is some value in maintaining distinct portfolios.
 

controller1

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I don't see any short or medium term chance Marriott International gets anywhere near the Hyatt name....but never say never.

As has been pointed out, the MVC purchase of ILG is a complicated one. I guarantee you that they didn't just complete the purchase on the basis they would "figure it out" later as regards Hyatt Vacation Club. There most certainly was an agreement struck between MVC and Hyatt as to the brand licensing at least for the short/medium term. I suspect Hyatt enjoys a nice revenue stream that they had no desire to jeopardize as the larger hotel market adjusts to the Marriott/Starwood merger. Likely they agreed to allow MVC to continue the brand license under some strict guidelines for a 3-5 year period. MVC clearly intends to (and needs to) sort out how to "harmonize" the Marriott and Vistana timeshare portfolios as a priority and will then turn to Hyatt subsequently.

One thing I think is often forgotten (or just glossed over) on these Boards is that MVC is NOT owned or controlled by Marriott. It's a completely separate legal entity with completely separate shareholding, management and Board of Directors. They simply license the Marriott name...and of course have very strong historic ties. However, there's nothing preventing them from pursuing a strategy independent of Marriott International. I mention this because it is possible MVC finds a way to get Hyatt comfortable with a longer term licensing strategy and they continue to use the Hyatt name for "vacation ownership" uses. I'm curious to see if MVC pursues the "borg like" strategy of Marriott International or if it perhaps decides there is some value in maintaining some brand distinction. Nothing prevents them from harmonizing all the back end operations while maintaining a distinct brand identity for Hyatt.

In fact, that last part is one of the single biggest open questions in my mind for MVC. Marriott International has been very clear that it intends to maintain the 30+ separate brands under the hotel umbrellas and contends that it can maintain brand distinction and differentiation. This is something I think the MVC (and the timeshare industry in general) has done a fairly poor job at. MVC has always lumped everything under the Marriott name (save for a few Ritz destination club locations which seem to me to have been largely been disastrous ventures); while Vistana has Westin, Sheraton and Vistana branded locations, I couldn't tell you how they really differ from a brand identity standpoint. With multiple brands now under it's belt, I wonder if/how MVC will differentiate them.

One thing we've not talked about in this thread is how the execution of the Marriott International merger may be effecting the timing and approach of MVC as it comes to Vistana. I don't think it's off base to say the execution hasn't been great and many loyalty members on BOTH sides are not happy about vaiorus things. If I were MVC, I'd be watching to make sure to avoid the same issues and may even be deciding whether or not there is some value in maintaining distinct portfolios.

One thing that could perhaps simplify the marketing of Hyatt Vacation Club would be if MVC dropped Marriott from its name.
 
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