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Bad Buy....x3

Rooster47

newbie
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Messages
2
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6
Points
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Resorts Owned
Trump Hotel, Las Vegas
Hello TUG members,

Gosh, I wish I had taken the time to find this place years ago! My wife and I went to Orlando, Florida as part of the 'package deal' that all of you are familiar with, surely, back in August 2017. Tuscany Gardens was beautiful, btw, SeaWorld just ok as a resort. Anyways, we ended up going to the presentation, obviously, and despite much wavering, ended up buying into Parc Soleil. We paid it off, and went to Myrtle Beach the following Spring, and foolishly bought in again, this time to Trump Hotel, Las Vegas. We returned to Myrtle Beach just last May, and even more pathetically bought in again. Long, sad, story short, we have now sunk in an obscene $46,000 for 7,200 points, platinum week, yearly, in Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. We still owe the $9k for the last 'upgrade' which is well past the 5 day rescission, obviously. I doubt there are many more pitiful stories than this, at least by those who'll admit it! I always considered myself quite untrusting of 'deals' having been a former business owner who was always trying to be sold something, but apparently didn't see the quicksand below the carrot that was dangling in front of me. I am pretty sure the last salesman lied to us about what our yearly maintenance fee was on the second buy, since my contract said it was less than a grand, but our newest is much higher.

So, once you've had a good laugh or cry for my sake, what do you think my options are with this? My wife thinks we should keep it for years to at least get some vacation out of it. At $1,276 maintenance fee, I am ready to just accept this as a $50,000 education in investment failure. We are going there this Christmas, for the first time. Judging from ebay, there doesn't seem any point in renting it to make up the for the yearly fees. Any ideas, apart from staying far, far away from any TS presentations in the future?
 

dayooper

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
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3,401
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349
Location
The Land of Ice and Snow
Resorts Owned
HGVC: The Flamingo, The Boulevard
Hello TUG members,

Gosh, I wish I had taken the time to find this place years ago! My wife and I went to Orlando, Florida as part of the 'package deal' that all of you are familiar with, surely, back in August 2017. Tuscany Gardens was beautiful, btw, SeaWorld just ok as a resort. Anyways, we ended up going to the presentation, obviously, and despite much wavering, ended up buying into Parc Soleil. We paid it off, and went to Myrtle Beach the following Spring, and foolishly bought in again, this time to Trump Hotel, Las Vegas. We returned to Myrtle Beach just last May, and even more pathetically bought in again. Long, sad, story short, we have now sunk in an obscene $46,000 for 7,200 points, platinum week, yearly, in Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. We still owe the $9k for the last 'upgrade' which is well past the 5 day rescission, obviously. I doubt there are many more pitiful stories than this, at least by those who'll admit it! I always considered myself quite untrusting of 'deals' having been a former business owner who was always trying to be sold something, but apparently didn't see the quicksand below the carrot that was dangling in front of me. I am pretty sure the last salesman lied to us about what our yearly maintenance fee was on the second buy, since my contract said it was less than a grand, but our newest is much higher.

So, once you've had a good laugh or cry for my sake, what do you think my options are with this? My wife thinks we should keep it for years to at least get some vacation out of it. At $1,276 maintenance fee, I am ready to just accept this as a $50,000 education in investment failure. We are going there this Christmas, for the first time. Judging from ebay, there doesn't seem any point in renting it to make up the for the yearly fees. Any ideas, apart from staying far, far away from any TS presentations in the future?

I’m going to side with your wife, here. You must have seen something worth purchasing and since you already have a sunk cost into the interval, why not use it? You won’t be able to sell or even give away the unit until the loan is paid off, so use it. While $1276 MF is on the high side, it’s not that far over the $0.15 price point many here on Tug go buy (you are at $0.17). Many other high quality resorts have MF’s twice the amount.

Think of it this way, how much would it cost you to stay in a 4 star 1 or 2 bedroom condo in Hawaii? Would it be more than $1276? My guess is no. You could break that 7200 points into two weeks worth of vacations or break it up even smaller and take take several shorter trips or off season trips. I’m heading to Ocean 22 in a couple of days on my 7000 points. The cost of my trip would be around $3000 - $4000 if we were to book our room.

I’m not sure of your situation with people you will be traveling with, schedules and the like. You can really make your money go far if you have the right situation. Even if you are stuck with a school schedule and need a 2 bedroom, you still are getting a great u it for a great price (you will have paid the $46,000 either way). Excepting their sales weasels, HGVC is a very user friendly system that many here on Tug enjoy. Many of our regular forum users bought retail before they found Tug. It happens so use it to it’s full extent!

One last word of caution, if you do decide to get rid of the unit, don’t fall for one of those companies that say they can get rid of your timeshare, but have to pay thousands in upfront money. They will take your money, list it and forget about it. Either that or they will do something you can do for thousands less.

Good Luck! If you need more, don’t be a stranger!
 

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
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6,781
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499
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Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
Hello TUG members,

Gosh, I wish I had taken the time to find this place years ago! My wife and I went to Orlando, Florida as part of the 'package deal' that all of you are familiar with, surely, back in August 2017. Tuscany Gardens was beautiful, btw, SeaWorld just ok as a resort. Anyways, we ended up going to the presentation, obviously, and despite much wavering, ended up buying into Parc Soleil. We paid it off, and went to Myrtle Beach the following Spring, and foolishly bought in again, this time to Trump Hotel, Las Vegas. We returned to Myrtle Beach just last May, and even more pathetically bought in again. Long, sad, story short, we have now sunk in an obscene $46,000 for 7,200 points, platinum week, yearly, in Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. We still owe the $9k for the last 'upgrade' which is well past the 5 day rescission, obviously. I doubt there are many more pitiful stories than this, at least by those who'll admit it! I always considered myself quite untrusting of 'deals' having been a former business owner who was always trying to be sold something, but apparently didn't see the quicksand below the carrot that was dangling in front of me. I am pretty sure the last salesman lied to us about what our yearly maintenance fee was on the second buy, since my contract said it was less than a grand, but our newest is much higher.

So, once you've had a good laugh or cry for my sake, what do you think my options are with this? My wife thinks we should keep it for years to at least get some vacation out of it. At $1,276 maintenance fee, I am ready to just accept this as a $50,000 education in investment failure. We are going there this Christmas, for the first time. Judging from ebay, there doesn't seem any point in renting it to make up the for the yearly fees. Any ideas, apart from staying far, far away from any TS presentations in the future?
Hi, glad you finally found TUG. Unfortunately, many of us also purchased from the developer before finding TUG and going resale.

The purchases are done, no reason to look back. Hgvc is a great system and with 7200 points there are lots of wonderful vacations you can enjoy. My suggestion is keep it and Enjoy you ownership. I own hgvc and love it.
 

1Kflyerguy

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
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San Jose, Ca
Resorts Owned
HGVC Kings Land, Elara, and Marriott Destination Club Points
Hello and welcome to Tugg.

Many here have similar experiences. I agree with your wife, the best option at this point is to try and get as much vacation as possible out of your annual points.
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
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Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
I'll side with your wife and the others. Keep it (them?) and learn to make the best use of it. Stick around TUG. Pay the $15 to join, and get access to reviews of thousands of resorts, as well as sightings of scarce resorts others have found on exchanges. Guests don't get these perks. See, you came here to commiserate, found thousands who did exactly what you did and picked up a new hobby- or habit. Your choice!

Welcome to TUG!

Jim
 

Tamaradarann

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
3,369
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1,297
Points
548
Location
Honolulu, HI
Resorts Owned
HGVC South Beach, HGVC Las Vegas, HGVC Las Vegas on the Strip, HGVC Sea World, Misner Place
I agree with the comments that advise to take advantage and enjoy what you purchased. Join TUG and get the most from your ownership. Here are a few Questions and some positive thoughts depending on your answers: From what I gathered from your initial post you like to vacation in Orlando, Myrtle Beach, and Las Vegas. Where do you live? How many weeks of vacation do you get a year? Can you do long weekends? The HGVC system is very flexible and enables you to have lots of great vacations. We almost never vacation where we own and we own 6 HGVC timeshares. We look at the 7200 points as an opportunity to vacation for about 3 weeks in a Studio without cost unless we have other people coming with us. Studios are available in most of the areas that HGVC has resorts. We have stayed in Studios in Orlando and Las Vegas as well as Honolulu and will be staying in NYC this year with the HGVC system. If you need more vacation than that the Open Season benefit lets you reserve 2 or more nights 30 days out without using your points and only paying what I consider a low nightly rate for the quality of the resort. Orlando and Las Vegas almost always has open season nights available for around $100/night. For Honolulu you do need to plan way ahead. If you can only get away for a long weekend the HGVC lets you do that easily since you can start and end your vacation any day of the week and reserve as little as 3 nights. In the last 13 years we have stayed in HGVC timeshares over 1000 nights with our ownership and you have the opportunity to do enjoy yours also.
 

Sandy VDH

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
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9,848
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648
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Houston, TX
Resorts Owned
Wynd VIP Plat GF, HGVC Elite, WM, HICV, +
Make Lemon-aid.

Every timeshare had to be sold by the developer before there was ever a single unit for sale on the resale market.

Learn how to use it and force yourself to take a break.
 

GMan82

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
191
Reaction score
121
Points
154
Resorts Owned
Elara, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club
West 57th by Hilton Club
I also bought an 8400 point Elara platinum unit from the developer before finding TUG. This was back in Sept 2018. Now? I’ve been to Orlando, San Diego, Miami, Scotland, and also have planned another Vegas trip (open season), San Diego (on honors points), and Hilton Head Island by Aug 2019. I’ve already borrowed some points from next year to make these trips work.

Like the others have said, make the most of it and enjoy what you now have. I do truly enjoy the system and its versatility. Any further need for points will come from the resale market. It’s a hard lesson earned, but at the same time one with some decent benefits once you know to get past the sales people’s words.
 

Twincheryl

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Hello TUG members,

Gosh, I wish I had taken the time to find this place years ago! My wife and I went to Orlando, Florida as part of the 'package deal' that all of you are familiar with, surely, back in August 2017. Tuscany Gardens was beautiful, btw, SeaWorld just ok as a resort. Anyways, we ended up going to the presentation, obviously, and despite much wavering, ended up buying into Parc Soleil. We paid it off, and went to Myrtle Beach the following Spring, and foolishly bought in again, this time to Trump Hotel, Las Vegas. We returned to Myrtle Beach just last May, and even more pathetically bought in again. Long, sad, story short, we have now sunk in an obscene $46,000 for 7,200 points, platinum week, yearly, in Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. We still owe the $9k for the last 'upgrade' which is well past the 5 day rescission, obviously. I doubt there are many more pitiful stories than this, at least by those who'll admit it! I always considered myself quite untrusting of 'deals' having been a former business owner who was always trying to be sold something, but apparently didn't see the quicksand below the carrot that was dangling in front of me. I am pretty sure the last salesman lied to us about what our yearly maintenance fee was on the second buy, since my contract said it was less than a grand, but our newest is much higher.

So, once you've had a good laugh or cry for my sake, what do you think my options are with this? My wife thinks we should keep it for years to at least get some vacation out of it. At $1,276 maintenance fee, I am ready to just accept this as a $50,000 education in investment failure. We are going there this Christmas, for the first time. Judging from ebay, there doesn't seem any point in renting it to make up the for the yearly fees. Any ideas, apart from staying far, far away from any TS presentations in the future?

Totally agree with everyone else... make the most of it as the majority here also knew nothing about resale in the beginning. We generally break up our points and go for 4-5 nights during the week. You can get a lot of mileage out of avoiding the weekends. HGVC has "encouraged" us to travel when we might not have... and now that we are retired, we know the places we like and go back every year. Try a few places and find something you like!
 

GT75

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
Moderator
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
4,278
Reaction score
2,755
Points
598
Location
Gig City in Tennessee
Resorts Owned
Legacy HGVC
FAVC-Cabo
So, once you've had a good laugh or cry for my sake, what do you think my options are with this? My wife thinks we should keep it for years to at least get some vacation out of it. At $1,276 maintenance fee, I am ready to just accept this as a $50,000 education in investment failure. We are going there this Christmas, for the first time. Judging from ebay, there doesn't seem any point in renting it to make up the for the yearly fees. Any ideas, apart from staying far, far away from any TS presentations in the future?

Welcome to TUG. I totally agree with everyone else. HGVC is actually a great system (to me one of the best or the best, because it is very flexible and high quality resorts.). Anyway, you have already purchased a fair number of points. I would consider that already water over the bridge. So now, I would learn to utilize those 7200 points. We can help you there. The one thing that I look at now is your MFs which is 0.18. I agree with @dayooper and isn't too bad certainly and isn't worth dumping.

After you start using the system, you may want to add more points. If you do then just don't buy from the developer. Ask for advice from the group first. Also, when you use the system, don't go any more to those "owner updates" (aka. "sales presentation" because that is what they really are. Next, they will try to sell you more points to get you to the first elite level at 14K points).
 

SmithOp

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
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Location
Huntington Beach, CA
Resorts Owned
HGVC King's Land 2BR Premier 23.040K Points.
Dont feel bad, I bought twice from HGVC before going resale. I’m in for about $40k. I’ve had use since 2001 now, taking many memorable trips. The more I use it the lower that buy in cost amortizes over my trips.

Learn how to stretch the points booking cheaper weekdays, lower seasons, and smaller units to get the most out of those maint fees.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

holdaer

TUG Member
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Messages
571
Reaction score
251
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273
Location
Houston, TX
Resorts Owned
Parc Soleil, a HGVC
Paradise, a HGVC
Different strokes for different folks. We like to stay in bigger units and for at least a week. Since we fly to most places, short stays in smaller units don’t work for us.

I travel enough for work and staying in a studio is not inviting.

Remember you can borrow points as well.

As you can see, timesharing can be enjoyed in different ways.

Most importantly, have fun and make lifelong memories.
 

Tamaradarann

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
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Honolulu, HI
Resorts Owned
HGVC South Beach, HGVC Las Vegas, HGVC Las Vegas on the Strip, HGVC Sea World, Misner Place
Different strokes for different folks. We like to stay in bigger units and for at least a week. Since we fly to most places, short stays in smaller units don’t work for us.

I travel enough for work and staying in a studio is not inviting.

Remember you can borrow points as well.

As you can see, timesharing can be enjoyed in different ways.

Most importantly, have fun and make lifelong memories.

I totally agree with "different strokes for different folks". We are retired, so we have 365 vacation days, and didn't travel for work. We also fly to most places so that we like long stays. (the airlines don't charge you more if you stay for a month rather than 3 days). We stayed in the Lagoon Penthouse for 10 nights with our Grandchildren and that was very special. However, my Husband and I can stay for 40 nights in a Studio for those points! Do we like the large kitchen and more space? Yes we do, but we usually stay for the 40 nights.
 

presley

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My wife thinks we should keep it for years to at least get some vacation out of it.
I agree with your wife. You've already paid and while, yes, you will continue to have various booking fees and annual dues, you'll be able to vacation in very nice resorts for many years. Focus on enjoying your vacation time and whatever it was that you were so interested in that you bought from them 3 times. Obviously, something sounded great and you saw the value at the time you were making your purchases. HGVC is one of the better timeshare companies.

You must have some bonus points. Remember to use those before they expire. They can also be converted to cover your annual fees or converted to hotel points.
 

brp

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Different strokes for different folks. We like to stay in bigger units and for at least a week. Since we fly to most places, short stays in smaller units don’t work for us.

I travel enough for work and staying in a studio is not inviting.

Remember you can borrow points as well.

As you can see, timesharing can be enjoyed in different ways.

Most importantly, have fun and make lifelong memories.

And this is why point-based systems (like HGVC, DVC, maybe others) are so good.

We like a larger number of shorter trips (need this for status across three airlines when all travel is personal :)) and these systems are just as flexible for that as they are for longer stays. No being locked into a travel model or location.

Cheers.
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
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California
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HGVC, MVC Vistana
Like you we bought our first property developer and then found resale. That purchase still hurts but we are keeping it and making lemon-aid. We figured out via Tug out to stretch and maximize our ownership. Every time we walk into a presentation and take the gift we see it as ROI on the original loss. We buy VIPs and bouncebacks for discounted stays at high end resorts (saying No of course in the presentation). This is our payback for overpaying and reduces the loss.

A few Tuggers have a spreadsheet that tracks every stay vs. the cost of renting, every gift from presentations (but don't buy) and every discounted open season and promo stay against the capital invested. Over time this number dwindles. It doesn't change the the fact that you are out the money when you sell but should make you feel better about the value you are receiving. If you sell for a loss today that cap loss will always be gone. By holding and using you are getting some value out of it.

BTW...We thank our lucky stars that we bought into HGVC and not into other systems and bought the unit we did because both are decent cost and MF value-wise. HGVC is the best TS system for flexibility and quality of resorts for the price. We enjoy the HGVC system.

You did not end up so badly. Think about all of those Marriott and Westin Maui, Kauai and Oahu owners who paid $45 - $70k+ for their IV units and they are now worth $5 - 12k PLUS they pay MF of $2400 - $2700 a year (same as resale owners who paid a fraction for the same unit). Or the Ocean Tower or NYC premium unit owners who paid $75k - $129k+. They are drinking a LOT of Mai Tais (or Manhattans) now. :)

You have a decent number of points and the MF is reasonable. If you rent Hawaii for a week it would be $3500 - $5000 during peak season. $1200 for a week in Hawaii is a steal. Just avoid or say no to those sales weasels.
 
Last edited:

elaine

TUG Member
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DC
Resorts Owned
HGVC Eagles Nest, DVC-AKV, HHI
We bought only resale and saved a lot—but bought property to build on that we eventually sold at a $35k loss. Lots of us have taken lumps that in hindsight we should’ve known better. I agree, enjoy hgvc.
 

terces

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Alberta
Resorts Owned
HGVC LVB x3, Sandos Mexico for RCI points
Totally agree with the advice to keep it and use it - and maybe even add. For sure it was a mistake to spend that much with the developer but where you lucked out is you got into one of the best vacation systems that exists, whereas many of us stumble into some RCI based total rip off, at least you have great resorts to book into and you will want to pinch yourself when you see how much you are actually paying on a per night basis to stay in the HGVC resorts. Our first time share was purchased from the developer in Mexico, and even though it was a disgusting deal, we have carefully used it in the shoulder season and feel it owes us very little. What it did was introduce us to TUG and to the wonderful world of timesharing. We are recovering RV owners as well and I can tell you the financial hit you take from owning one of those beasts can be much worse than what you have experienced. We did a ton of research following the Mexican experience and have since bought 2 x 7000 point units at HGVC Las Vegas Boulevard on the resale market and will be adding another one soon for a total of 21,000 points. Our capital cost will be about 1/3 of our last RV and our annual costs of around $2,800 will be a fraction of the cost of running an RV. We should be able to trade for about 6 weeks total with our HGVC points into beautiful Hilton Resorts all around the world. Among the other benefits of HGVC is a really slick online booking system. It takes a bit of time and practice to get your head around it, but we feel that booking vacations now is easier than in the past going through travel agencies.
 

phil1ben

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The first step is to stop thinking of your purchase as an "investment". It is not. It is simply an advance purchase of vacation time. Even though I bought resale I do not think of it as an investment but simply an expenditure for vacation. Sure, you spent more money than you should have. Water under the bridge. However, all owners who own the same unit in the same location are paying the same maintenance fees whether you bought resale or retail. Looking at it over a 20 year time period at an average maintenance fee of $1400 you would have spent $46,000 + $28,000.00 = $74,000.00. If you bought resale for about $1.00 per point you would have spent $7,200 + $800 (closing fees and title insurance) + $28,000.00 = $36,000.00. Ignoring opportunity costs, it appears that you overpaid about $1,900/year over the 20 year period. If you use the points each year not a catastrophe. As stated above it is a good program.
 

CalGalTraveler

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The first step is to stop thinking of your purchase as an "investment". It is not. It is simply an advance purchase of vacation time. Even though I bought resale I do not think of it as an investment but simply an expenditure for vacation. Sure, you spent more money than you should have. Water under the bridge. However, all owners who own the same unit in the same location are paying the same maintenance fees whether you bought resale or retail. Looking at it over a 20 year time period at an average maintenance fee of $1400 you would have spent $46,000 + $28,000.00 = $74,000.00. If you bought resale for about $1.00 per point you would have spent $7,200 + $800 (closing fees and title insurance) + $28,000.00 = $36,000.00. Ignoring opportunity costs, it appears that you overpaid about $1,900/year over the 20 year period. If you use the points each year not a catastrophe. As stated above it is a good program.

Good comparisons on cost. The OP also received bonus points for those transactions so should reduce the purchase cost by that amount. We received a significant number of bonus points for buying developer in NYC worth about $10,000 - $13,000 depending on how they are used. Resale is still the most cost effective way to go, but deducting bonus points plus the discounts over renting, and promotional gifts (which many resale owners do not have access to) eases the sting over time.
 

Rooster47

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Trump Hotel, Las Vegas
Wow! Such great responses, I will certainly join TUG and take advantage of the wealth of knowledge. We live in NY, so going to Las Vegas is not going to be something that happens too frequently, perhaps not even yearly (though we have family in Washington that want to visit). But that is the beauty of the point system, as you all mentioned. I will definitely be keeping it. Not seeing myself buy into anything else when open season and the rental market are what they are, but who knows what the future will bring! Certainly any purchase won't be retail.


Yes, it is fortunate that we ended up with Hilton vs. Wyndham, Marriott, etc. We have gotten some 20,000 bonus points and 200,000 Hilton Honors points to sweeten these 3 'deals', so that is nice. Yes, my wife and I have talked about going elite, and I'm sure glad we know better now ('free' breakfasts don't taste as good knowing that you in fact paid obscenely for them)! I have always wanted to go places like Japan--2-3 nights at best is possible with 7,200 points! Borrowing is great to have available. To be fair, I don't think the retail agents at Hilton ever told us it was an investment, as in one that will make us money, but could save us money on our vacation dreams. We really liked all the agents, unsurprisingly, as they are designed to be personable. We were told the first time that our maintenance fees would be 'a wash' since we could just write them off on our taxes. Obviously the deduction rules have changed as of late---have any of you found success in deducting your maintenance fees?

Yes, I am still excited to be a part of the HGVC, even if it wasn't the ideal way into it. Thanks for the encouragement, I hope to meet many of you at the various destinations we find ourselves!
 

PigsDad

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Colorado and SW Florida
Resorts Owned
HGVC Elite: SeaWorld, Surf Club, Charter Club, Valdoro
We were told the first time that our maintenance fees would be 'a wash' since we could just write them off on our taxes. Obviously the deduction rules have changed as of late---have any of you found success in deducting your maintenance fees?
Oh, that's one I haven't heard before. You had a very "creative" sales agent. :eek: AFAIK, maintenance fees have never been deductible for personal use, but the property tax portion (which is usually a small percentage of the MF) may be deductible; no recent rule changes around that. The only way the whole MF might be deductible is if the timeshare was used strictly for business, but I'm sure a tax person would be able to give more insight on that topic.

Kurt
 

brp

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..but the property tax portion (which is usually a small percentage of the MF) may be deductible; no recent rule changes around that.

The "recent rule change" may refer to the $10K SALT limitation that, depending upon where one lives, makes this, effectively, non-deductible.

Cheers.
 

PigsDad

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HGVC Elite: SeaWorld, Surf Club, Charter Club, Valdoro
The "recent rule change" may refer to the $10K SALT limitation that, depending upon where one lives, makes this, effectively, non-deductible.
True, but that only affects the property tax which is billed with the maintenance fee, and is a very small portion of the total. The sales slime indicated he could deduct the full maintenance fees, and no rule change affected that, AFAIK.

Kurt
 

brp

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True, but that only affects the property tax which is billed with the maintenance fee, and is a very small portion of the total. The sales slime indicated he could deduct the full maintenance fees, and no rule change affected that, AFAIK.

Kurt

Got it. It seems I misinterpreted which thing you were saying was "not impacted by any rule change." :)

Cheers.
 
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