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I really need to stop going to presentations

dougp26364

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of course, the problem is timeshare keeps evolving. In the beginning it was great owning various timeshares with different management companies and trading thru II or RCI. Then the big companies started finding ways to limit their inventory for exchange while enhancing internal exchange privileges. So after 20 years our needs evolved and I’ve been shedding the resorts or systems that no longer fir our needs while holding onto or increasing the others that fit our needs.

To that end, we’ve been using Marriott and Hilton more and others less. At the same time, because the medical industry keeps evolving rapidly, job changes we never anticipated as few as 5 years ago have happened at an alarmingly frequent basis. I’ve changed jobs twice in 5 years after I had remained in one positions for the previous 21 years while my wife is in the process of doing exactly the same. Unbelievable since we both in our 50’s/60’s. So now the flexibility of points has become a major influence in our lives (manipulation of work schedules reducing the need to take paid time off) and the fixed check in days have become more difficult to work with.

We did our last tour simply because they offered us $200. We had friends who have traveled with us in the past, one of which had pancreatic cancer in the final stages, and I wanted to take them on the Emerald Bay cruise (we were in Lake Tahoe), so this seemed the perfect way to accomplish that goal. I had NO intention of buying the 1,500 points I felt we needed at $14.12/point.

At the end was when I made my big mistake. I said the word bundle. They came back with two offers. One that included a HHI week and another that included a Palm Desert week. We love both locations so that kept with my philosophy of owning where you want to go and, the Palm Desert week fit the where/when mold. Plus, there offer reduced the price, or cost per point, to a level I didn’t think they’d reach. So, we jumped at it and put one of our other timeshare that doesn’t fit this new mold up for adoption (giving it away as it has very little resale value).

I’s like to think this is the last move we’ll ever make, but given enough time I’m sure things will evolve again. In the end we’ll be down to mostly Marriott and HGVC ownerships with one other resort in Breckenridge (allows our dogs and we like it better than Marriott’s Hilton’s or Hyatt’s offerings there).

What’s next? I’m sure for Marriott it’s going to be the angle of getting us from Presidential to Chairman’s level. After all, this transaction will leave us approx 1,500 points short of Chairman. I guess that gives them something to shoot for and keep offering us owner updates with incentives. In the meantime Titanium Bonvoy level probably gets me back to collecting Bonvoy points a little bit and the additional DC points allows me to pick/choose the best views at the highest demand times without working out the save/borrow/compromise scenario I’ve been using these past few years. Still, that was the most expensive Lake Tahoe Cruise we’ve ever taken.
 

Mr. Vker

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We now own to MVCI weeks (enrolled) and two weeks at Grand Solmar in Cabo. We have no need for anything additional. When we are asked to go to a presentation, I am clear we are not buying anything. (I work in sales and don't want to waste anyone's time.) They still ask us to go. If the incentive is enough, I might. If not, I don't. I am also upfront with the salesperson. They set the rules-I am following them. Also a factor is the schedule for the week. We have two weeks upcoming in Aruba, so a presentation is not too disruptive. Shorter trips may preclude one.

This is not the same situation as yours, but I wrestled with whether or not I was done with tours too.
 

mjm1

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What’s next? I’m sure for Marriott it’s going to be the angle of getting us from Presidential to Chairman’s level

Yes, that is what they will do. And even at Chairman we have had the salesperson say we should buy more points so we can convert them to Bonvoy points and use them for travel (miles or travel packages.) So, apparently they will never stop trying.

As you said, if the incentive is attractive and you have time attending presentations is ok. Of course some people see it as a disruption and waste of vacation time. With Marriott and Westin we have enjoyed the conversations, so will attend if we feel like it.

Best regards.

Mike
 

dougp26364

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Convert to Bonvoy points? Boy will THAT make it easy to say no.

Sometimes the conversations are pleasant enough. Up until this last update we’d been paired with seemed like new reps that weren’t well versed in how the system worked.

The funny thing is, we had an email offering us $200 or 30,000 points to attend this presentation. I had attempted to schedule by phone but they never returned my call. When we arrived they said $100, which I would have turned down. Because I had the email they honored the $200. If they hadn’t honored that extra $100 this conversation never happens. $100 just isn’t worth our time anymore
 
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pedro47

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Our last timeshare presentation was at MOW, two (2) years ago. The word “no” was very easy to come from our lips.

We are in our early seventy’s, and we do not need any more unnecessary debt. IMHO.
 

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What’s next? I’m sure for Marriott it’s going to be the angle of getting us from Presidential to Chairman’s level. After all, this transaction will leave us approx 1,500 points short of Chairman. I guess that gives them something to shoot for and keep offering us owner updates with incentives. In the meantime Titanium Bonvoy level probably gets me back to collecting Bonvoy points a little bit and the additional DC points allows me to pick/choose the best views at the highest demand times without working out the save/borrow/compromise scenario I’ve been using these past few years. Still, that was the most expensive Lake Tahoe Cruise we’ve ever taken.

If you are not 100% sure you can or will say NO, then definitely do not go no matter the offer.
 

Dean

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If you are not 100% sure you can or will say NO, then definitely do not go no matter the offer.
Timeshare sales people put the "Con" in Con Artist. They are good at what they do if they're add it very long which is why historically they make well above 6 figures for the better ones.
 

dougp26364

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If you are not 100% sure you can or will say NO, then definitely do not go no matter the offer.

Timeshare sales people put the "Con" in Con Artist. They are good at what they do if they're add it very long which is why historically they make well above 6 figures for the better ones.

I actually knew what I was doing. I just didn’t expect they’d get the price/point down to where I was comfortable with the purchase or offer a bundled week we would be happy to own. In this particular instance, all the stars aligned. The last piece will be giving away the one week we really don’t need. If it takes time, that’s all right. We can use it, we just don’t need it.
 

davidvel

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Timeshare sales are an interesting study in human behavior. The OP went to a presentation to save $200 paying for a cruise for a friend, but then plops down (ten?) thousands of dollars.

I've said this before, but I think that there is a certain mindset that goes along with wanting a few hundred dollars "for free" that the sales force is trained to tap into. By giving these incentives, they pre-select a group of people with this mindset.
 

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Timeshare sales are an interesting study in human behavior. The OP went to a presentation to save $200 paying for a cruise for a friend, but then plops down (ten?) thousands of dollars.

I've said this before, but I think that there is a certain mindset that goes along with wanting a few hundred dollars "for free" that the sales force is trained to tap into. By giving these incentives, they pre-select a group of people with this mindset.


What, ME?????? Nooooooo way........ :ponder: :doh:

Why, those scoundrels.....
 

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I'm done with spending any time at these presentations. Years ago, sure. Now we own as much as we're going to and the last couple we did go to were so bloated with misinformation and convoluted reasoning that I just can't take it any longer. At South Beach I recall the closer telling us how a VP at some big name VP at Fidelity bought a bunch more because it would be cheaper than staying at hotels like they did now. I can only imagine the price point of the hotels they were staying at to make that work . . .
 

Dean

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I actually knew what I was doing. I just didn’t expect they’d get the price/point down to where I was comfortable with the purchase or offer a bundled week we would be happy to own. In this particular instance, all the stars aligned. The last piece will be giving away the one week we really don’t need. If it takes time, that’s all right. We can use it, we just don’t need it.
That's the point, they're skilled at telling you just the right thing to hook you.
 

Dean

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What, ME?????? Nooooooo way........ :ponder: :doh:

Why, those scoundrels.....
I went to a lecture a few years ago at our National Convention. The gist of it was that as a physician the more you think you're not affected by drug reps, the more you likely are. As many have said over the years, you play with snakes you might be bitten or you play with fire you might get burned.
 

Steve Fatula

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That's the point, they're skilled at telling you just the right thing to hook you.

This is of course very true. But not everyone has a problem saying no, it's easy for me. You can ask me 1,000 times and I will say no 1,000 times no matter how great you make it sound. In reality, we would end long before 1,000 of course.
 

Dean

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This is of course very true. But not everyone has a problem saying no, it's easy for me. You can ask me 1,000 times and I will say no 1,000 times no matter how great you make it sound. In reality, we would end long before 1,000 of course.
I think there's a range, I'm more like you unless I have a plan anyway like with my recent upgrade. I'd decide to purchase if they met certain criteria and they didn't on 3 different tours but we established the realities and when the program came out for that year with the group that could actually make it happen, we moved and are completing that process now. Maui, Ko Olina and Aruba couldn't do it when I visited (1 was uncompensated) but Aruba established guidelines with the promise to contact when they had options. They did and we are proceeding. But the reality is they tend to be very good at their job if they last, if they are not, they don't last.
 

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Sometimes they make it so easy to say no. We have just been offered a ‘one time offer’ that substituted 1500 points for 2 deeded weeks that were worth over 2000 points or which could be split so that they were potentially worth 4 weeks on interval. The result of this would reduce our status from Executive to Select and cost $21390. The manager threatened that now Marriott own interval all the great exchanges that we have received will cease. The bonus for us was that it would reduce our maintenance fees. Felt sorry for the salesperson who had done a great job in sprinting having additional points. We were happy to take our $250 incentive and leave!
 

dougp26364

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That's the point, they're skilled at telling you just the right thing to hook you.

I actually knew what I wanted before we went in. After Having three very unskilled sales reps that stuck strictly to the script and offered nothing anywhere close to what we were looking for despite my telling them what I was after. Actually it had been fairly frustrating up you until this point. The surprise was, this salesman listened, which is what a skilled salesman does.
 

csalter2

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I don’t find that any of the salesman are so good at their job that they will get you to do what you were not planning on doing. I believe that what needs to be in place are certain elements that make you ripe for buying. First, you have to have a desire or interest in buying. Secondly, they have to be offering something that you legitimately feel is a fair deal. I am not talking about the average Joe walking in off the street because he was staying at the resort and they offered free stuff. I am talking about those of us who know the deal and that we are adept at saying no. I had one week with Marriott since 2003 at Ko Olina. I was about to pick up a resale 3 bedroom to add. I called Marriott just to see what they had to offer. I kept saying no to all of their original offers. I had even decided to not buy the resale. It was not until I felt that I was hearing language that made sense to ME that I acquiesced and said let’s do it. I believe for vets like us, we will review our needs first and then review Marriott’s offers to see if they make sense for us before purchasing. It’s not just because we were there and they offered a deal, but that they offered a deal that would benefit us and not them that makes the difference.
 

csalter2

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I actually knew what I wanted before we went in. After Having three very unskilled sales reps that stuck strictly to the script and offered nothing anywhere close to what we were looking for despite my telling them what I was after. Actually it had been fairly frustrating up you until this point. The surprise was, this salesman listened, which is what a skilled salesman does.

You and I were obviously typing at the same time. You just cemented my point. :)
 

dougp26364

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Sometimes they make it so easy to say no. We have just been offered a ‘one time offer’ that substituted 1500 points for 2 deeded weeks that were worth over 2000 points or which could be split so that they were potentially worth 4 weeks on interval. The result of this would reduce our status from Executive to Select and cost $21390. The manager threatened that now Marriott own interval all the great exchanges that we have received will cease. The bonus for us was that it would reduce our maintenance fees. Felt sorry for the salesperson who had done a great job in sprinting having additional points. We were happy to take our $250 incentive and leave!

I had a HGVC salesman make this same mistake with us. I was interested in moving our deed from the Las Vegas Strip to Elara. Somehow she translated our conversation about rising MF’s into an EOY unit at Kingsland in Hawaii. Fewer yearly points, lower MF’s only because it was an EOY unit (higher per point fees) and it was only going to cost me a little south of $30,000.

She missed ALL the buying signals because she didn’t listen. I told her, we never stayed at our home resort but booked one of the more expensive units in Elara, just fewer nights and a smaller unit. She did hear I was concerned about rising MF’s and we traveled to Hawaii EOY. She missed us telling her that my wife’s least favorite island was Oahu and her second least favorite was the big island. Completely blew past what we told her about our frequent trips to Vegas.

She didn’t listen. She didn’t stand a chance with me because of it. I’m not saying I’d have upgraded to Elara but, I’d have at least entertained that particular offer. It was easy enough to completely dismiss paying tens of thousands to downsize to a resort we’d never consider using on an island we may never travel to again.
 

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I think there's a range, I'm more like you unless I have a plan anyway like with my recent upgrade. I'd decide to purchase if they met certain criteria and they didn't on 3 different tours but we established the realities and when the program came out for that year with the group that could actually make it happen, we moved and are completing that process now. Maui, Ko Olina and Aruba couldn't do it when I visited (1 was uncompensated) but Aruba established guidelines with the promise to contact when they had options. They did and we are proceeding. But the reality is they tend to be very good at their job if they last, if they are not, they don't last.

Hey, if you truly might purchase, then for sure, go, hear them out, and if they meet your criteria, go for it. I agree. I have done that as well. That was not me caving in to any pressure, that was premeditated. I had criteria, asked for and got it. But that was my last purchase, I don't need any more at this point. Since I have no problem at all saying no, I always go if the offer is decent.
 

Dean

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Hey, if you truly might purchase, then for sure, go, hear them out, and if they meet your criteria, go for it. I agree. I have done that as well. That was not me caving in to any pressure, that was premeditated. I had criteria, asked for and got it. But that was my last purchase, I don't need any more at this point. Since I have no problem at all saying no, I always go if the offer is decent.
I think the one thing that gets missed in these discussions are that as a group we are the most educated people in the world about timeshares other than those in management. Even then, if you look across systems, we likely know more than even upper management for many of them when looking at multiple systems as a group. Thus we are not representative of the usual. To be honest, I tend to enjoy the tours. I like talking timeshares (as do most of us here I think) and I enjoy seeing new (to me) properties and I usually learn a little here and there. My ideal circumstance would be to do them alone and uncompensated since my wife hates them. And while I understand why they want both parties, truthfully even if we saw something we hadn't already my a decision on that interested us, we wouldn't buy at that moment anyway so it wouldn't make any difference for us. Having real knowledge is empowering to make better decisions. OTOH I've seen many people on TUG and elsewhere that were relatively educated on timeshares who attended a sales presentation and were thrown a curveball that caused them to sign when they had no intention of buying going in and often later found out the hook wasn't as it was described though more with other options than Marriott.

Then there's the other angle, is it ethical to attend a tour for compensation knowing you're not going to buy? Some would say no but my position is it's their choice. They have my track record and notes of previous tours with most all of the systems (DVC, Bluegreen, Wyndham & Marriott for sure. I do know of people that are black listed from tours with various companies but I don't know what criteria they use to put people on that list other than the short term issues of recent tours & purchases. And they know or should know their chances of making a sale in a given situation so they can make the choice thus I must concludes that they get enough people to buy to make it worth their time and the incentives. One thing I've gotten very intolerant of is them soliciting the tour then complaining that we did it. I know one Ko Olina salesperson last summer who learned this the hard way when we spent 90 minutes with him then I (let wife leave) spent another 60 minutes sitting in his office with his manager discussing this. Another is dragging it out past the obligated time once we've done what we need to do, I've started getting a time guarantee in writing. I'm thinking about putting together a one paragraph summary of my expectations and getting the ASA to sign off on it.
 
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