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Inventory games played by developers and points systems

ski_sierra

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As I read more about different timeshare systems, I came to understand the inventory games in many timeshare systems. It continues to amaze me how many ways developers play games to screw owners. Developer controlled HOAs, stripping benefits for resale owners are the most obvious ones. But I found inventory games as the sneakiest one to screw owners.

Here are some notes that other newbies might find helpful and I hope others will chime in with their insights.

Developer owned inventory:
Developers also own weeks/points inventory that is waiting to be sold. So I'm sure developers book the most desirable weeks with their inventory so they can rent those out to cover their costs.

Float weeks game:
Many timeshares have the whole year floating e.g. Sheraton Desert Oasis. I'm sure many owners will not be able to get their desired week. It is also possible that although the float interval is advertised as 1-52, they may have fewer week 52s available than other weeks.

Marriott points systems: the trust owns a lot of weeks that are not desirable (for me) like Marriott Grand Chateau. Owners with desirable enrolled weeks might not deposit their weeks for points. My take is buying pure points is a recipe for disappointment here.

Hyatt/Vistana/Hilton: owners need to deposit their weeks for points for those weeks to become available for others to book using points. I purchased a HGVC week for points and I'm very realistic that getting holiday weeks won't be easy.

Wyndham: If you buy pure points, you will be limited to booking the weeks owned by the trust. Who knows what weeks are owned by the trust.

WorldMark: From my reading, Worldmark points systems is the most fair points systems where you have a good chance of booking holiday weeks as all weeks are open for all members. I think I read that there are some locations where Worldmark doesn't own all the units/weeks but that's not very common.

I don't really know much about other systems like Diamond, Shell, Vacation Internationale, Welk and others.

I'm sure I have only covered the tip of the iceberg and others will chime in with their experience. I think I would have benefited from reading about this since it makes you more realistic about what you can get with your timeshare. And this is why I will eventually own some fixed weeks.
 
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T-Dot-Traveller

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Hi ski_sierra,
I think your post is a fair analysis .

However each of your reviews on each system is a glass half full/ half empty situation .

example : if someone bought Wyndham CWA points to book Pompano/ S Florida in February - they will likely be frustrated** . If they bought CWA to vacation in a variety of places without having to pay an exchange fee to RCI - they will enjoy their purchase .

As Sy Syms used to say - “ an educated consumer is our best customer “

********

** (added) Wyndham’s Pompano resorts have a significant legacy fixed week ownership situation , particularly for Jan- April winter / snow bird season . Those unit / weeks cannot be accessed by points .
 
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heathpack

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@ski_sierra much of what you say is correct but the biggest motivating factor is knowing your systems and what you actually own. I’ll only speak to systems I own:

1. Hyatt. You own a specific week in a specific unit. If you buy one you could use every year, Hyatt cannot screw you. If you buy hoping to use the Internal Exchange system, it’s currently pretty good but there’s huge potential to be screwed.

2. Marriott weeks. Buy a legacy week and you own a week in a floating season. I own a Gold week in Hilton Head but so far have never had issues booking my holiday weeks of interest (Labor Day and Memorial Day). Marriott does not seem to grab all the good Gold weeks to rent. I’m not sure about other resorts.

3. Marriott points. Marriott did things right and brought a lot of legacy weeks into the system early on, they made the price attractive to owners so huge numbers joined. They enticed the owners of prime weeks by making those weeks worth a lot of points. Destination Club points have a lot of flexibility and a wide array of booking options, this appeals to a lot of people. Mostly people seem quite happy with their DC points. I find few bargains (but some!) but I like the flexibility. Next year, I happen to want to check in to my owned resort (Mountainside) on the Monday of Labor Day week and stay 5 nights. That will be a huge bargain with DC points.

4. Vistana. I own a Sheraton summer float week. Huge potential for Vistana to manipulate inventory and it seems like they do. But I don’t care- I use it as a trader and it trades well. I got it for free and am pretty confident I could give it away. I fully expect for this one to eventually become an albatross but it will stay a nice resort so

5. Disney Vacation Club. Seemed like a solid points product but this year they attempted to introduce a points chart change that seemed to be against the governing docs. Caused great outcry amongst owners and the move was reversed. Now introducing resale restrictions on their latest resort. So moving in the direction of other timeshares. But the classic product mostly worked well was not subject to manipulation. If you have enough points and you know your booking windows, you can pretty much book at your home resort, holiday weeks included.

Your personal paradigm is different from mine. You are looking for the most desirable weeks (ski holiday weeks) and are hoping to find a bargain. Maybe you’ll find some hot trader and be able to trade in from time to time. But your best bet is to buy a deeded holiday ski week somewhere. I know they’re expensive, but it’s the sure thing approach.
 

Snazzylass

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"You are looking for the most desirable weeks (ski holiday weeks) and are hoping to find a bargain." Exactly! LOL! So, who's trying to "beat the system?"

It would be interesting to survey floating weeks owners to see what their experience is. I can see where some locations would have super desirable weeks.
 

ski_sierra

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@ski_sierra much of what you say is correct but the biggest motivating factor is knowing your systems and what you actually own. I’ll only speak to systems I own

Your personal paradigm is different from mine. You are looking for the most desirable weeks (ski holiday weeks) and are hoping to find a bargain. Maybe you’ll find some hot trader and be able to trade in from time to time. But your best bet is to buy a deeded holiday ski week somewhere. I know they’re expensive, but it’s the sure thing approach.

very interesting. Yes, I'm looking at a couple of fixed resale ski weeks. Doing my due diligence before locking myself in.
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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....a couple of fixed resale ski weeks. Doing my due diligence before locking myself in.

I think this a good approach .
IMO -( without specific knowledge) - you will find prime fixed ski weeks / because the age when someone can no longer use a ski week is generally a lot younger than when an owner can no longer use a S. Florida winter beach location .
 

heathpack

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very interesting. Yes, I'm looking at a couple of fixed resale ski weeks. Doing my due diligence before locking myself in.

BTW, I know Incline Village works for you. Presidents week 2020 at Hyatt High Sierra is just sitting in inventory right now (and has been for at least a few weeks now, your posts made me look), available to book for anyone with the points. That suggests to me that looking for that week to purchase would not be a bad move for you. It may not be super high demand despite meeting your needs perfectly. You might be able to pick up one relatively inexpensively.

Hyatt has ski properties in Breckenridge, Aspen, and Avon/Beaver Creek. You could try to trade into any of those and, failing that, just use your owned week.

The other strategy would be to buy something else in the Hyatt system (that might be cheaper) and trade in. That would work in the short term but you never know where Hyatt will go with their points system and internal trading. It might cease to work three years from now.

Of course timeshares can be bought and sold if the paradigm changes but considering closing costs, transfer fees, and depreciation of the unit, you’re sometimes better off just paying more (within reason) to get what really works for you without worrying about what the timeshare company or exchange companies are going to do next.

Hyatt units are cheap right now and ROFR is rarely exercised. It’s a good time to buy one, if you can find one that suits.
 

bnoble

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Wyndham: If you buy pure points, you will be limited to booking the weeks owned by the trust. Who knows what weeks are owned by the trust.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you mean Club Wyndham Access, this isn't quite right. You are limited to weeks in the trust during the Advanced Reservation Period (from 13 to 10 months prior to check-in). After that, points are points.

I have gotten some very high-demand reservations right at the 10 month mark over the years, and would not worry too much about ARP unless I had a very specific purpose I wanted the ownership to meet year after year. (And, if that were what I wanted, I would probably look for a fixed week that met that purpose.) The entire point of point-based systems is that you can use them to do many different things over the years more efficiently than using an exchange-based system.

That said, for any flexible reservation-style system (i.e. anything other than fixed week/fixed unit), there are likely to be some weeks and/or views at some resorts that are more in demand than supply. For such weeks, some owners will inevitably be disappointed, no matter what mechanism is used to make reservations. There needn't be some nefarious intent on the part of the developers.
 
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ecwinch

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WorldMark: From my reading, Worldmark points systems is the most fair points systems where you have a good chance of booking holiday weeks as all weeks are open for all members. I think I read that there are some locations where Worldmark doesn't own all the units/weeks but that's not very common.

Worldmark's governing documents expressly prohibit the developer (Wyndham) from booking usage with their credits/points until 45 days from check-in. This prohibition does not apply to credits they receive in exchange for out of network travel benefits (i.e. credits redeemed for airfare, cruises, rental cars, maintenance payments, etc).

And you are correct, the booking windows for members are all the same (13 months). In general, I would say WM does not own all the units/weeks at somewhere between 40-50% of our resorts - as many locations are shared with some other entity (fractional owners, Club Wyndham, other Clubs, fully-owned condo's, deeded owners, etc). In the early days of WM, it was quite common for WM to just buy a couple of units at an existing development or under construction.
 

ski_sierra

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Of course timeshares can be bought and sold if the paradigm changes but considering closing costs, transfer fees, and depreciation of the unit, you’re sometimes better off just paying more (within reason) to get what really works for you without worrying about what the timeshare company or exchange companies are going to do next.
Agreed. I will post my thoughts on Hyatt Sierra in another thread in order to keep this thread focused.


I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you mean Club Wyndham Access, this isn't quite right. You are limited to weeks in the trust during the Advanced Reservation Period (from 13 to 10 months prior to check-in). After that, points are points.

I have gotten some very high-demand reservations right at the 10 month mark over the years, and would not worry too much about ARP unless I had a very specific purpose I wanted the ownership to meet year after year.

There needn't be some nefarious intent on the part of the developers.
I was referring to CWA as you correctly pointed out. That's great info about Wyndham for other potential buyers. I'm on West Coast so I bought Worldmark instead of Wyndham.
 

ski_sierra

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Worldmark's governing documents expressly prohibit the developer (Wyndham) from booking usage with their credits/points until 45 days from check-in. This prohibition does not apply to credits they receive in exchange for out of network travel benefits (i.e. credits redeemed for airfare, cruises, rental cars, maintenance payments, etc).
Thanks for pointing this out.. this is another solid thing in favor of Worldmark.



And you are correct, the booking windows for members are all the same (13 months). In general, I would say WM does not own all the units/weeks at somewhere between 40-50% of our resorts - as many locations are shared with some other entity (fractional owners, Club Wyndham, other Clubs, fully-owned condo's, deeded owners, etc). In the early days of WM, it was quite common for WM to just buy a couple of units at an existing development or under construction.
I'm assuming that at the locations where they don't own all the units, they own the full year at the units they own.
 

JohnPaul

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I'm assuming that at the locations where they don't own all the units, they own the full year at the units they own.


Not always. That’s why you seek booking options like fractional 1 or fractional 8 at resorts like Lake Chelan House and Inn of the Seventh Mountain.
 
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