2019 Enrollment Resale Weeks and our Marriott Timeshare Journey

[vol_90]

Completed enrollment of 7.5 resale weeks purchased in Q418 via the purchase of 5,500 Destination points. The process was initiated through the Marriott Vacation Club website dealing directly with the Corporate Sales team in Florida beginning March 26th. Signed the contract on March 29th and officially closed on May 1st. Details as follows:

$77,550 List Price for 5,500 DP ($14.1 per point)

$61,930 Discount 20% ($11.26 per point)

$1,109 Closing Costs (Title Services $300, Title Insurance $356.50, Gov’t Recording Charges $18.50, Gov’t Transfer Taxes $434. Questioned the requirement for title insurance and received the following response: “Yes you are required to purchase title insurance, it is including in the closing costs. You however do not need to purchase any additional title insurance above what is already in the closing costs”)

$63,039 Total ($11.46 per point with 10% down at signing of contract and remaining due in 25 days. Paid all using Marriott AMEX = 378,234 Bonvoy points)

Extra purchase incentive 6,875 Bonus Destination points valid for 2 years.

Purchased the 7.5 resale weeks for a total of $35,138 including closing costs (6 Phuket Beach Club Platinum weeks, 1 Desert Springs Villas II White week and 1 EOY Canyon Villas Gold week). The point values for the 7.5 weeks are 23,595 Even years and 21,770 in Odd years (avg. annual point availability 22,682 @ $1.55 per point). The plan was to enroll these weeks in the future when a special came along which it did much sooner than expected. Preference for Phuket Beach Club Platinum weeks besides going there is you can get them for ~$5K excluding closing costs with a point value of 3,270 and annual maintenance fee of $1,150. DSV II ($1) and Canyon Villas ($99) plus closing costs were purchased on Redweek. Couldn’t resist the asking price even with lower point values and higher maintenance fees. It did take 4 days for Marriott legal to approve adding the EOY week in the deal (hence 7.5 weeks) as the initial terms were 5,500 destination points for enrollment of 3 to 7 weeks.

The average cost per Destination Point for the combined transaction is $3.48 ($98,177 / 28,182). I did not include any value in this transaction for the 6,875 Bonus points (est. $4,468 @ ~$0.65 per point) or 378,234 Bonvoy points (est. $3,782 @ $0.01 per point).

Our total MVCI Portfolio Cost per point is now $4.30 ($208,675 / 48,532) excluding annual maintenance fees.

The 2020 Maintenance Fee estimate is $20,800 ($0.43 per point) which is a combination of 6,500 Destination Points, 3,000 Asia Pacific Points, 11 Phuket Beach Club Platinum Weeks, 1 DSV II White week, 1 EOY Even Canyon Villas Gold Week and Annual Chairman’s Club Dues.


We have enjoyed our time at Marriott properties since the 1st Phuket Beach Club week purchased in 2007. We have only been to 13 properties so far mostly due to our Asia base 8 of the last 12 years. This has led to a preference for the Phuket Beach Club having spent 185 nights there between July 2007 and March 2019. Our 2nd most visited location is Aruba with 63 nights. It’s been fun playing the resale market and points purchase enrollment game. No more planned purchases going forward unless we get a prize for owning more than 50,000 points. We look forward to 30+ more years of enjoyment, health permitting. I plan to spend the next 5+ years continuing to work, scheduling a few vacations, while covering annual maintenance fees and recouping some of the capital cost via rentals. Following retirement and before we find a permanent place to call home in the US we will spend at minimum a year staying at Marriott properties finding the best way to maximize our points (Destination and Bonvoy) enjoying the increasing portfolio of properties. We have and continue to leverage off and learn from the valuable TUG forum discussions. Thank you to all Tuggers providing input.

To close, there is a lot of negative sentiment out there on timeshares much of what is deserved due to shady developer and sales practices which is why TUG is so important to prospective buyers and existing timeshare owners. To any future Timeshare purchaser please never think of these as a financial investment or you are guaranteed to lose money and hate the industry. They are an investment in vacations and memories. If you do purchase look 1st towards resale vs. from a developer and understand your time is required to research, understand and plan so that you can fully take advantage of whatever program you purchase in. For us the benefit of our Marriott Timeshare is that they push us to advance plan vacations at many exotic locations we like giving us something to always look forward to without the need to maintain a vacation home. In the end our personal preference is to pay an average of $1,750 (plus 4% est. annual increase) in monthly MVCI maintenance fees for multiple yearly vacations vs. paying property taxes, insurance, maintenance, electric, internet, water, cable etc. on a one location beach house.


Cheers to all,

vol_90

 

[mpizza]

Congratulations! A well thought-out goal achieved!

Wishing you many years of enjoyment!

Maria

 

[jmhpsu93]

Very nicely done. Exactly how to maximize the value of your expenditure.

 

[MabelP]

Wow...I'm impressed! Very well thought out. Congratulations and have a blast!

 

[answeeney]

Sounds like you have done very well indeed.

I’m interested, though, in the fact that you mentioned you are based in Asia but went through the MVC website to buy your new destination club points - the implication being that you bought points residing in the US based trust.

Maybe, I am missing something, hence my interest but...
according to what I was told at a presentation in Phuket in January you can buy DC trust points there at the same price as in the US but with a significantly lower ongoing member fee. When I queried this I was told that it was because the points were held in an Asia (Singapore?) based trust. I guess that means they are the old Asia Pacific points being sold under a new name.

But...apparently they are capable of booking the same stuff on a one to one basis as the US trust based points. I wasn’t in buyers mode, and I didn’t really think I would get a reliable answer, so I didn’t press the point, but it did seem to me that for significant purchases it would be worth making a special trip to Asia to take advantage of this. As I said, I may be missing something.

 

[bazzap]

Sounds like you have done very well indeed.

I’m interested, though, in the fact that you mentioned you are based in Asia but went through the MVC website to buy your new destination club points - the implication being that you bought points residing in the US based trust.

Maybe, I am missing something, hence my interest but...
according to what I was told at a presentation in Phuket in January you can buy DC trust points there at the same price as in the US but with a significantly lower ongoing member fee. When I queried this I was told that it was because the points were held in an Asia (Singapore?) based trust. I guess that means they are the old Asia Pacific points being sold under a new name.

But...apparently they are capable of booking the same stuff on a one to one basis as the US trust based points. I wasn’t in buyers mode, and I didn’t really think I would get a reliable answer, so I didn’t press the point, but it did seem to me that for significant purchases it would be worth making a special trip to Asia to take advantage of this. As I said, I may be missing something.

When I checked in December 2018, they were still only selling Asia Pacific AP Points in Phuket.
There was a suggestion that they might start selling DC Points at some point in the following year, but no suggestion that if they do you would not have to pay the same DC MFs and dues.
I will see if I can get an update on this.
AP Points do have much lower MFs than DC Points, but yes “they are capable of booking the same stuff on a one to one basis as the US trust based points”
They still run as separate systems though, with associated implications of different deadline dates and booking process....etc.

 

[Quilter]

Completed enrollment of 7.5 resale weeks purchased in Q418 via the purchase of 5,500 Destination points. The process was initiated through the Marriott Vacation Club website dealing directly with the Corporate Sales team in Florida beginning March 26th. Signed the contract on March 29th and officially closed on May 1st.

...

The 2020 Maintenance Fee estimate is $20,800 ($0.43 per point) which is a combination of 6,500 Destination Points, 3,000 Asia Pacific Points, 11 Phuket Beach Club Platinum Weeks, 1 DSV II White week, 1 EOY Even Canyon Villas Gold Week and Annual Chairman’s Club Dues.

Cheers to all,

vol_90

Congratulations! That's quite the portfolio. I agree with you about having the timeshares vs. a single location condo.

Your post was well written and I found it easy to follow your number crunching. The DSV and CV weeks seem to be the ones that increase the cost/point in your MF. Without them you'd have a MF average of $.41/point). Are you going to use those weeks as point generators or try to increase their value with favorable trades from II?

I ask because for the past couple years CV has sold off II deposits (to benefit CWN). These deposits are low gold weeks but I've been able to find some nice exchanges with them.

 

[vol_90]

Congratulations! That's quite the portfolio. I agree with you about having the timeshares vs. a single location condo.

Your post was well written and I found it easy to follow your number crunching. The DSV and CV weeks seem to be the ones that increase the cost/point in your MF. Without them you'd have a MF average of $.41/point). Are you going to use those weeks as point generators or try to increase their value with favorable trades from II?

I ask because for the past couple years CV has sold off II deposits (to benefit CWN). These deposits are low gold weeks but I've been able to find some nice exchanges with them.

The DSV and CV weeks individually will likely be breakeven point generators in the short term. For 2020 I will be allocating all 2020 & 2021 points towards vacations, gifts and rentals. Ultimately I want to get close to 100% borrowed points (using all 2021 points in 2020 and so on) every year going forward to maximize value. Borrowing lowers my risk on rentals as there will be instances where some do not rent within the 60 day period and I have the option to redeposit and bank if needed.

 

[GregT]

Congratulations! Well done and I like your financial assessement -- easy to follow and makes sense. Enjoy your ownership!

Best,

Greg

 

[dansimms]

You are proof that knowledge is power! Congratulations! Now you have a wealth of resources to use, Year in and year out !

 

[brianfox]

The calculations were great until this:
Our total MVCI Portfolio Cost per point is now $4.30 ($208,675 / 48,532) excluding annual maintenance fees.

Please help me understand how you arrive at the $208,675 and 48,532.
It looked to me that your buy in for the portfolio was $98,177 and the total points were 28,182. Unless the portfolio includes properties or points not mentioned.

We have 3 Waiohai and 2 Ko Olina weeks (all post 2010) and our buy in and potential points are remarkably similar to yours ($37,447 buy in and 20,725 potential points), so I'm very interested in fully understanding your numbers.

Thanks

 

[vol_90]

The calculations were great until this:
Our total MVCI Portfolio Cost per point is now $4.30 ($208,675 / 48,532) excluding annual maintenance fees.

Please help me understand how you arrive at the $208,675 and 48,532.
It looked to me that your buy in for the portfolio was $98,177 and the total points were 28,182. Unless the portfolio includes properties or points not mentioned.

We have 3 Waiohai and 2 Ko Olina weeks (all post 2010) and our buy in and potential points are remarkably similar to yours ($37,447 buy in and 20,725 potential points), so I'm very interested in fully understanding your numbers.

Thanks

Prior to this transaction I owned 20,350 points costing $110,498 for a per point cost of $5.43 which consisted of 1,000 Destination points, 3,000 Asia Pacific points and 5 Marriott Phuket Platinum weeks.

 

[Dean]

Prior to this transaction I owned 20,350 points costing $110,498 for a per point cost of $5.43 which consisted of 1,000 Destination points, 3,000 Asia Pacific points and 5 Marriott Phuket Platinum weeks.

My cost for a few more points than your total is right at $3.60 pp. I think it's possible to get the cost down close to $2.50 pp for this type of volume if the goal is just points but getting higher demand resorts/views/weeks will add to the cost but it will reduce the per point fees in many cases. IMO there's a balance, for me it's not just about points. But someone else might be mostly wanting points and if they are starting from scratch they have tremendous opportunities assuming the enrollment options come around again.

 

[csalter2]

My cost for a few more points than your total is right at $3.60 pp. I think it's possible to get the cost down close to $2.50 pp for this type of volume if the goal is just points but getting higher demand resorts/views/weeks will add to the cost but it will reduce the per point fees in many cases. IMO there's a balance, for me it's not just about points. But someone else might be mostly wanting points and if they are starting from scratch they have tremendous opportunities assuming the enrollment options come around again.

I believe this thread is a very good one in that it illustrates the rationale behind alternatives to pure point purchases. I know for sure when I made my purchases, cost was a consideration but, location, point value, maintenance fee/pt and season were also important factors. Without a doubt, resales are the way to go if at all possible. One really has to give earl consideration as to what their overall goal is. This is difficult because when one first purchases, he/she does not think in terms of many timeshare or a portfolio full of them. I was in my mid 30’s when I bought my first timeshare and had no thoughts of having the amount of time I have now. If one does have foresight getting solid higher demanded high season resorts for as little as possible would be the way to go, with the hope to eventually be able to enroll them into the DC program.

I’m still not a fan of buying points even when bought resale because the maintenance fees are so high on them. Not to mention the amount of points needed to stay at resorts.

 

[Quilter]

The DSV and CV weeks individually will likely be breakeven point generators in the short term. For 2020 I will be allocating all 2020 & 2021 points towards vacations, gifts and rentals. Ultimately I want to get close to 100% borrowed points (using all 2021 points in 2020 and so on) every year going forward to maximize value. Borrowing lowers my risk on rentals as there will be instances where some do not rent within the 60 day period and I have the option to redeposit and bank if needed.

Borrowing from 2021 is a concept I hadn't even considered until reading your post. Several of our weeks are oceanfront so I'd be giving up that view category. However, since we're owners at the properties, the oceanside room assignments are quite satisfactory. Especially on non-peak weeks.

I decided to try your system and borrowed all my 2021 points, have already plugged them into 2020 reservations. Theoretically, this means I don't have anything available for 2021 (if all the 2020 reservations are used). We've been doing this Marriott thing for 20 years so I'm sure we won't go vacationless. Like you said, I can then borrow from 2022, or burn Bonvoy points, or take that Viking cruise. Who knows, we may even vacation by staying in the guest bedroom of friends and family.

 

[Dean]

Borrowing from 2021 is a concept I hadn't even considered until reading your post. Several of our weeks are oceanfront so I'd be giving up that view category. However, since we're owners at the properties, the oceanside room assignments are quite satisfactory. Especially on non-peak weeks.

I decided to try your system and borrowed all my 2021 points, have already plugged them into 2020 reservations. Theoretically, this means I don't have anything available for 2021 (if all the 2020 reservations are used). We've been doing this Marriott thing for 20 years so I'm sure we won't go vacationless. Like you said, I can then borrow from 2022, or burn Bonvoy points, or take that Viking cruise. Who knows, we may even vacation by staying in the guest bedroom of friends and family.

Just be aware that being an owner at a given resort is not a formal part of the assignment criteria though a few resorts tend to use it as a tiebreaker.

 

[Quilter]

Just be aware that being an owner at a given resort is not a formal part of the assignment criteria though a few resorts tend to use it as a tiebreaker.

Yes I realize that.

There is only one resort that could be a problem. Ocean pointe. They’ve been good to us but they tow a hard line. The best thing is to give them lots of options. I’m also flexible enough to call and say if it’s a truly crappy location tell me before I get in the car and I’ll gladly scrap the stay find a Plan B.

 

[Dean]

Yes I realize that.

There is only one resort that could be a problem. Ocean pointe. They’ve been good to us but they tow a hard line. The best thing is to give them lots of options. I’m also flexible enough to call and say if it’s a truly crappy location tell me before I get in the car and I’ll gladly scrap the stay find a Plan B.

Everywhere I've been to in the past 5-7 years has been hardline except Grande Vista and Harbour Lake, 2 resorts where it really doesn't matter much. Ko Olina was hardline to the point of no exceptions for any reason this past summer even to keep units even within building next door or to allow one to stay in a single unit for 2 weeks even if you were willing to downgrade. Aruba SC was essentially the same. Grande ocean is similar but the wrinkle they throw in, as do ? all HH resorts where it's applicable, is the alternating year downgraded view. Given that it appears to me that in the past 3-4 years resorts in general have gone the more hardline approach and have been less flexible even where it made sense (keep groups together, same unit multiple weeks), I wonder if there has been some corporate direction to do so. Or it may just be that the GM group has learned from each other and it's more of a corporate culture change than a true mandate.

Don't get me wrong, with the who points puzzle assigning units is tough even without people being involved. And a lot of people are entitlement oriented in this area, I've seen it many times with Front Desk Meltdowns and owner meeting rants. Plus someone has to get that bad view or HC unit that doesn't need it and the Ocean view unit may be obstructed by trees. I'm ok with all of that and I would never complain based on those issue alone if the unit itself were as it should be. Though I do tend to feel about HC units as you do a poor view/location, I'd rather no go than be in one if I don't need it.

 

[Quilter]

Everywhere I've been to in the past 5-7 years has been hardline except Grande Vista and Harbour Lake, 2 resorts where it really doesn't matter much. Ko Olina was hardline to the point of no exceptions for any reason this past summer even to keep units even within building next door or to allow one to stay in a single unit for 2 weeks even if you were willing to downgrade. Aruba SC was essentially the same. Grande ocean is similar but the wrinkle they throw in, as do ? all HH resorts where it's applicable, is the alternating year downgraded view. Given that it appears to me that in the past 3-4 years resorts in general have gone the more hardline approach and have been less flexible even where it made sense (keep groups together, same unit multiple weeks), I wonder if there has been some corporate direction to do so. Or it may just be that the GM group has learned from each other and it's more of a corporate culture change than a true mandate.

Don't get me wrong, with the who points puzzle assigning units is tough even without people being involved. And a lot of people are entitlement oriented in this area, I've seen it many times with Front Desk Meltdowns and owner meeting rants. Plus someone has to get that bad view or HC unit that doesn't need it and the Ocean view unit may be obstructed by trees. I'm ok with all of that and I would never complain based on those issue alone if the unit itself were as it should be. Though I do tend to feel about HC units as you do a poor view/location, I'd rather no go than be in one if I don't need it.

Since you brought up Ko Olina have you been to Waiohai on points? Can there be a downside to the ocean view rooms?

 

[Dean]

Since you brought up Ko Olina have you been to Waiohai on points? Can there be a downside to the ocean view rooms?

We've stayed there once, this past summer (Maui, Ko Olina and Waiohai). We had 3 units at Waiohai, 2 exchange and 1 on points (1 OV, 2 IV). Others are likely far more knowledgeable than I am about the options and different views and to be honest, I'm not sure our experience was likely to be representative. Ko Olina messed us over (I've written about it elsewhere) and when I met with the GM there, the GM for Waiohai was on property and sat in. So it's very possible our assignments were not as they would have been otherwise, there may have been some compensatory consideration. Our only specific request was the units be close together and they were, in Hale 7, two on 2nd floor and 1 on 3rd (or it might hav been 2 on 3rd and 1 on 4th?). As you read repeatedly, the views there from OS tend to be less than impressive but the IV can be even worse. There's probably a little less variability for OV view than IV given the back of the resort potential there but YMMV. In hindsight they likely should have sold it without view types.