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Helicopter crash on oahu
- Thread starter chellej
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Fitzpatrick's Castle Holiday Homes,
Enchanted Isle.
Terrible
tompalm
TUG Member
The local news reported 48 helicopter tour crashes since 2006. Not sure if they were all in the state of Hawaii from Novictor Helicopters or if there were a total of 48 using this helicopter. But, Novictor did have a crash in October.
tompalm
TUG Member
More news from Star-advertiser newspaper
Hawaii’s tour helicopter industry could face new regulatory head winds in the wake of Monday’s tragic helicopter crash, which killed all three people aboard when it went down in a dense Kailua neighborhood.
Hawaii state Rep. Cynthia Thielen (R, Kailua-Kaneohe Bay) has asked Hawaii’s federal delegation to urge the Federal Aviation Administration to ban all tour helicopter flights in Hawaii until the investigation into Monday’s crash concludes. Thielen also wants the delegation to push the FAA to consider flight restrictions over residential neighborhoods, a move that Thielen says would be similar to what Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., did around 2012 when he got the FAA to ban most helicopters from flying over Long Island.
“People in my district are very distraught. This was right over their homes, and elementary schools were just a spitting distance away,” Thielen said.
Thielen also plans to introduce two state bills next year: one that would direct the state Department of Transportation to limit ground permits for tour helicopters at state airports, and another that would instruct counties to create ground permit limits for helicopters using private airports.
“State lawmakers can’t control the air. We know that and FAA has smugly told us that, but we can control the land use,” Thielen said. “If we could control the land use, it would be a significant improvement — just like we saved the fisheries by limiting permits.”
Hawaii’s congressional delegation is closely monitoring the crash.
U.S. Rep. Ed Case issued the following statement: “While our thoughts today are with those who were lost and theirs, clearly there are major issues with tour helicopters throughout Hawaii that must be addressed, and my commitment is to pursue substantially increased regulation to assure public safety and quality of life.”
U.S. Sen. Mazie K. Hirono said, “My thoughts and aloha are with the families of the victims in this terrible tragedy. My office is engaging with the appropriate federal agencies as they conduct their investigation.”
If other lawmakers concur with Thielen, it wouldn’t be the first time that Hawaii’s air tour industry has faced increased federal scrutiny. In the 1990s the late Rep. Patsy Mink convened an Air Tour Surveillance Team to monitor complaints about aircraft noise and safety. Mink also introduced bills limiting flights over national parks and restricting altitudes. She also proposed federally regulating helicopter noise. Her legislative attempts followed a rash of fatal accidents — where some 30 people died aboard Hawaii sightseeing aircraft in a three-year period.
While not all of Mink’s efforts passed, she did succeed in getting federal authorities to begin cracking down on safety violations for air tours, and she got special provisions passed that required Hawaii air tours to fly at higher altitudes than tour companies in other states.
Mink’s work ensured that Hawaii has the nation’s strictest air tour rules, said Calvin Dorn, CEO of Paradise Helicopters. Hawaii air tour operators must fly 1,500 feet above the ground and can drop down as far as 500 feet only with special authorization, he said.
In most cases outside of Hawaii, air tours can fly as low as 300 feet over a congested area, Dorn said. Only utility flights can fly that low in Hawaii, he said.
Thielen said Mink made a good start, but more needs to be done to improve safety and reduce negative impacts like increased noise in residential neighborhoods. Her daughter state Sen. Laura Thielen (D, Kailua-Waimanalo-Hawaii Kai), who introduced a bill related to reducing noise from helicopter operations this year, also is backing the proposed ban.
Kailua resident Charissa Johns said she supports Cynthia Thielen proposals “100%.”
“Hawaii is not for sale. We’ve already given away the land. Let’s not give away the airspace,” said Johns, who said the status quo has led to noise complaints and safety worries.
But Dorn of Paradise Helicopters said Cynthia Thielen’s call for a ban on tour flights and other proposals are overreaching and would decimate an important part of Hawaii’s visitor industry.
“It would have an immediate impact on operations for us and for other air tour companies,” Dorn said. “We’d try to hang on, hoping common sense prevailed, but if there was no end in sight, we would have to lay off employees. It wouldn’t make sense to go bankrupt.”
“We can’t just legislate our way to safety. The last fatal car accident was probably yesterday, but no one is talking about banning cars, nor should they. Are helicopter rides necessary? No, but neither is swimming in the ocean or driving a car, and we still do those,” Dorn said.
Hawaii’s tour helicopter industry could face new regulatory head winds in the wake of Monday’s tragic helicopter crash, which killed all three people aboard when it went down in a dense Kailua neighborhood.
Hawaii state Rep. Cynthia Thielen (R, Kailua-Kaneohe Bay) has asked Hawaii’s federal delegation to urge the Federal Aviation Administration to ban all tour helicopter flights in Hawaii until the investigation into Monday’s crash concludes. Thielen also wants the delegation to push the FAA to consider flight restrictions over residential neighborhoods, a move that Thielen says would be similar to what Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., did around 2012 when he got the FAA to ban most helicopters from flying over Long Island.
“People in my district are very distraught. This was right over their homes, and elementary schools were just a spitting distance away,” Thielen said.
Thielen also plans to introduce two state bills next year: one that would direct the state Department of Transportation to limit ground permits for tour helicopters at state airports, and another that would instruct counties to create ground permit limits for helicopters using private airports.
“State lawmakers can’t control the air. We know that and FAA has smugly told us that, but we can control the land use,” Thielen said. “If we could control the land use, it would be a significant improvement — just like we saved the fisheries by limiting permits.”
Hawaii’s congressional delegation is closely monitoring the crash.
U.S. Rep. Ed Case issued the following statement: “While our thoughts today are with those who were lost and theirs, clearly there are major issues with tour helicopters throughout Hawaii that must be addressed, and my commitment is to pursue substantially increased regulation to assure public safety and quality of life.”
U.S. Sen. Mazie K. Hirono said, “My thoughts and aloha are with the families of the victims in this terrible tragedy. My office is engaging with the appropriate federal agencies as they conduct their investigation.”
If other lawmakers concur with Thielen, it wouldn’t be the first time that Hawaii’s air tour industry has faced increased federal scrutiny. In the 1990s the late Rep. Patsy Mink convened an Air Tour Surveillance Team to monitor complaints about aircraft noise and safety. Mink also introduced bills limiting flights over national parks and restricting altitudes. She also proposed federally regulating helicopter noise. Her legislative attempts followed a rash of fatal accidents — where some 30 people died aboard Hawaii sightseeing aircraft in a three-year period.
While not all of Mink’s efforts passed, she did succeed in getting federal authorities to begin cracking down on safety violations for air tours, and she got special provisions passed that required Hawaii air tours to fly at higher altitudes than tour companies in other states.
Mink’s work ensured that Hawaii has the nation’s strictest air tour rules, said Calvin Dorn, CEO of Paradise Helicopters. Hawaii air tour operators must fly 1,500 feet above the ground and can drop down as far as 500 feet only with special authorization, he said.
In most cases outside of Hawaii, air tours can fly as low as 300 feet over a congested area, Dorn said. Only utility flights can fly that low in Hawaii, he said.
Thielen said Mink made a good start, but more needs to be done to improve safety and reduce negative impacts like increased noise in residential neighborhoods. Her daughter state Sen. Laura Thielen (D, Kailua-Waimanalo-Hawaii Kai), who introduced a bill related to reducing noise from helicopter operations this year, also is backing the proposed ban.
Kailua resident Charissa Johns said she supports Cynthia Thielen proposals “100%.”
“Hawaii is not for sale. We’ve already given away the land. Let’s not give away the airspace,” said Johns, who said the status quo has led to noise complaints and safety worries.
But Dorn of Paradise Helicopters said Cynthia Thielen’s call for a ban on tour flights and other proposals are overreaching and would decimate an important part of Hawaii’s visitor industry.
“It would have an immediate impact on operations for us and for other air tour companies,” Dorn said. “We’d try to hang on, hoping common sense prevailed, but if there was no end in sight, we would have to lay off employees. It wouldn’t make sense to go bankrupt.”
“We can’t just legislate our way to safety. The last fatal car accident was probably yesterday, but no one is talking about banning cars, nor should they. Are helicopter rides necessary? No, but neither is swimming in the ocean or driving a car, and we still do those,” Dorn said.
tompalm
TUG Member
From Staradvertiser
Monday’s crash is latest for Robinson model
Monday’s deadly crash of a tour helicopter in Kailua is the third Hawaii copter accident this year and ninth since the beginning of last year.
It was the first fatal helicopter crash in the islands since Oct. 16, 2017, when a flight instructor and student pilot died northwest of Molokai.
Like that accident, Monday’s crash involved a Robinson R44, a model that has come under scrutiny for being in more than its share of accidents.
In Hawaii, five of the last 10 copter incidents involved a Robinson R44 — the world’s top-selling civilian helicopter, popular among sightseeing tours and flight schools.
One of those Robinson R44 accidents — operated by the same company in Monday’s crash, Novictor Helicopters — occurred Oct. 22 when a 57-year-old pilot lost consciousness during a scenic tour of Oahu, prompting one of the passengers to grab the aircraft’s controls to slow the descent before it crashed at the Kaneohe Bay sandbar.
The last helicopter crash in Hawaii occurred less than two weeks ago, when a pilot and three passengers miraculously walked away from a chopper that lost power and crashed April 16 in a remote section of Sacred Falls State Park in Hauula. That was a Hughes 369E.
Another Hughes 369E was involved in a crash in Waipio Valley on Feb. 21 as a 39-year-old pilot was seriously injured but able to walk away.
Both of the Hughes 369E helicopters were operated by K&S Helicopters, doing business as Paradise Helicopters.
“I don’t have the stats, but it seems like there’s been an upswing in helicopter crashes over the last year or so,” said Robert Moore, General Aviation Council of Hawaii board member.
Moore said the Federal Aviation Administration requires a more experienced aviator to fly the Robinson R44 because of its tricky rigid rotor system.
In addition, the model is not equipped with instruments that allow aviators to fly in stormy weather, he said. It was raining in Kailua at the time of the crash.
A November Los Angeles Times investigation found that Robinson R44s were involved in 42 fatal crashes in the U.S. from 2006 to 2016, more than any other civilian helicopter.
That translates to 1.6 fatal accidents per 100,000 hours flown — a rate nearly 50% higher than any other civilian model tracked by the FAA.
The Robinson Helicopter Co. disputed the Times’ findings, saying that the FAA undercounts flight hours for the R44, resulting in an inflated accident rate. The company asserted that its aircraft are safe and reliable when flown within their operating limits.
Moore, a veteran fixed-wing pilot who was an aircraft mechanic for 25 years in the military, said he declined to pursue his helicopter pilot’s license after his flight school had offered only a Robinson R44 to fly.
Former Aloha Airlines pilot and helicopter tour pilot Bruce Mayes said the safety record of the air tour business in Hawaii is good for the most part, considering the comprehensive regulations the industry must follow.
“When I began air tours in Waikiki in 1980, there weren’t many of us,” Mayes said. “Now on Oahu there are a half-dozen companies with six to 10 helicopters each. That’s a lot of helicopters.”
Moore said the industry’s pilots were predominantly former Vietnam War helicopter pilots, but most of them have retired.
“There’s a new breed of helicopter pilot, and they are not as experienced as they once were,” he said.
Monday’s crash is latest for Robinson model
Monday’s deadly crash of a tour helicopter in Kailua is the third Hawaii copter accident this year and ninth since the beginning of last year.
It was the first fatal helicopter crash in the islands since Oct. 16, 2017, when a flight instructor and student pilot died northwest of Molokai.
Like that accident, Monday’s crash involved a Robinson R44, a model that has come under scrutiny for being in more than its share of accidents.
In Hawaii, five of the last 10 copter incidents involved a Robinson R44 — the world’s top-selling civilian helicopter, popular among sightseeing tours and flight schools.
One of those Robinson R44 accidents — operated by the same company in Monday’s crash, Novictor Helicopters — occurred Oct. 22 when a 57-year-old pilot lost consciousness during a scenic tour of Oahu, prompting one of the passengers to grab the aircraft’s controls to slow the descent before it crashed at the Kaneohe Bay sandbar.
The last helicopter crash in Hawaii occurred less than two weeks ago, when a pilot and three passengers miraculously walked away from a chopper that lost power and crashed April 16 in a remote section of Sacred Falls State Park in Hauula. That was a Hughes 369E.
Another Hughes 369E was involved in a crash in Waipio Valley on Feb. 21 as a 39-year-old pilot was seriously injured but able to walk away.
Both of the Hughes 369E helicopters were operated by K&S Helicopters, doing business as Paradise Helicopters.
“I don’t have the stats, but it seems like there’s been an upswing in helicopter crashes over the last year or so,” said Robert Moore, General Aviation Council of Hawaii board member.
Moore said the Federal Aviation Administration requires a more experienced aviator to fly the Robinson R44 because of its tricky rigid rotor system.
In addition, the model is not equipped with instruments that allow aviators to fly in stormy weather, he said. It was raining in Kailua at the time of the crash.
A November Los Angeles Times investigation found that Robinson R44s were involved in 42 fatal crashes in the U.S. from 2006 to 2016, more than any other civilian helicopter.
That translates to 1.6 fatal accidents per 100,000 hours flown — a rate nearly 50% higher than any other civilian model tracked by the FAA.
The Robinson Helicopter Co. disputed the Times’ findings, saying that the FAA undercounts flight hours for the R44, resulting in an inflated accident rate. The company asserted that its aircraft are safe and reliable when flown within their operating limits.
Moore, a veteran fixed-wing pilot who was an aircraft mechanic for 25 years in the military, said he declined to pursue his helicopter pilot’s license after his flight school had offered only a Robinson R44 to fly.
Former Aloha Airlines pilot and helicopter tour pilot Bruce Mayes said the safety record of the air tour business in Hawaii is good for the most part, considering the comprehensive regulations the industry must follow.
“When I began air tours in Waikiki in 1980, there weren’t many of us,” Mayes said. “Now on Oahu there are a half-dozen companies with six to 10 helicopters each. That’s a lot of helicopters.”
Moore said the industry’s pilots were predominantly former Vietnam War helicopter pilots, but most of them have retired.
“There’s a new breed of helicopter pilot, and they are not as experienced as they once were,” he said.
tompalm
TUG Member
The next time you book a reservation, check to see if it is a Robinson R-44 and try to avoid that model
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Marriott:
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My feelings, exactly.
Having said that, I do agree the R44 is not as robust a helicopter as the A-Star, Eco-Star, and Hughes 500 helicopters most of the larger operators use. I think the R44s have emerged for budget, lower-cost alternative operators.
taterhed
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Westin WKORV OFD
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R22's (are they even flying?) and R44's are definitely a step down in all aspects of the tour experience....except price.
I give my highest recommendation to Blue Hawaiian for helicopter tours. Professional, safe and brand new machines (for the most part).
Stick with the well-known operators, flying Euro/Eco Stars (135's) and you'll be fine. We flew on a Hughes 900 with open doors etc... and it was very professionally operated and safely conducted, but the amount of power (performance) and safety of the structure on these smaller, lighter helicopters is really a major factor in the result of an emergency landing. You could not get me in the Robinson R44 period. Let alone on a 'tour' over a city or water or remote terrain.
RIP to all affected. So sad.
I give my highest recommendation to Blue Hawaiian for helicopter tours. Professional, safe and brand new machines (for the most part).
Stick with the well-known operators, flying Euro/Eco Stars (135's) and you'll be fine. We flew on a Hughes 900 with open doors etc... and it was very professionally operated and safely conducted, but the amount of power (performance) and safety of the structure on these smaller, lighter helicopters is really a major factor in the result of an emergency landing. You could not get me in the Robinson R44 period. Let alone on a 'tour' over a city or water or remote terrain.
RIP to all affected. So sad.
clifffaith
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"One of those Robinson R44 accidents — operated by the same company in Monday’s crash, Novictor Helicopters — occurred Oct. 22 when a 57-year-old pilot lost consciousness during a scenic tour of Oahu, prompting one of the passengers to grab the aircraft’s controls to slow the descent before it crashed at the Kaneohe Bay sandbar."
That freaks me out to the max because I figure no way most people have any clue as to how a helicopter operates. I figure even I would have a 10% chance of landing a small airplane safely (with input from the control tower); make that 0% chance with a helicopter. I'm guessing a helicopter drops like a rock (maybe a spinning rock) as soon as the pilot is incapacitated, so hats off to someone who could actually slow the descent.
That freaks me out to the max because I figure no way most people have any clue as to how a helicopter operates. I figure even I would have a 10% chance of landing a small airplane safely (with input from the control tower); make that 0% chance with a helicopter. I'm guessing a helicopter drops like a rock (maybe a spinning rock) as soon as the pilot is incapacitated, so hats off to someone who could actually slow the descent.