ELARA is an affiliate resort

[terces]

I believe ELARA is an affiliate resort. I think there is additional risk with these as HGVC does not have an obligation to continue support of the affiliate resort and could cancel at any time. For this reason I turned down a purchase at Elara last year. Does anyone else share this concern?

 

[seagila]

I believe ELARA is an affiliate resort. I think there is additional risk with these as HGVC does not have an obligation to continue support of the affiliate resort and could cancel at any time. For this reason I turned down a purchase at Elara last year. Does anyone else share this concern?

Possible but not probable given what's known. Highly unlikely Elara will leave HGV and vice versa given HGV's investment in the property.

HGVC to partner with Blackstone, purchase share of Elara

 

[Cyberc]

I believe ELARA is an affiliate resort. I think there is additional risk with these as HGVC does not have an obligation to continue support of the affiliate resort and could cancel at any time. For this reason I turned down a purchase at Elara last year. Does anyone else share this concern?

No I dont think that is likely. Elara and HGVC is as close as they get. Same with HGVC and the bay club.

One thing HGVC changed a few years ago was that deeds purchased at Elara (among others) are not available for trade ins anymore. This means even though HGVC continues to sell Elara if you have purchased Elara in the past and want to trade in that deed for a bigger or better size Elara unit you no longer can. The same goes with other HGVC properties.

 

[alwysonvac]

....One thing HGVC changed a few years ago was that deeds purchased at Elara (among others) are not available for trade ins anymore. This means even though HGVC continues to sell Elara if you have purchased Elara in the past and want to trade in that deed for a bigger or better size Elara unit you no longer can. The same goes with other HGVC properties.

They still have upgrade offers. It depends on the resort. See previous posts below.

There was a Las Vegas upgrade offer this month for Las Vegas on Paradise to upgrade to Elara.
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...n-owners-update-at-elara.288115/#post-2265561

In general they will offer the original purchase price as "equity". However based on what i see on the Facebook boards, not all resorts are eligible for trade in. I believe the true HGVC developed resorts are eligible, but the it seems the Fee for service resorts are not. I have seen posts from people that own at Elara and Myrtle Beach complain that HGVC would take their resorts as trade. I have not seen anything official about that, and you have to be careful with what you read on FB...


Also during the Q&A section of their last conference call, the HGV CEO referenced a new policy requiring more cash during the trade in process. He seemed to be referencing a previous conversation that was not recorded, but my take on what he said was that for some of the new high value loans, you would need addition cash down payment, not just a trade in unit as your equity.

We get the same treatment at W. 57th as owners and at LT/Grand Waikikian. Not sure why.

re: Equity. It is true. We saw a list at one presentation with the resorts that they won't accept as trade-in including Grand Islander and other affiliates.

I wonder if this limitation would also apply to buyback/deedbacks? If true, owning silver or low value weeks at affiliate resorts would add an element of risk. What is worse is if one paid developer prices and they won't accept. I would be extremely upset because I am sure that was never disclosed during the sale.

 

[dayooper]

I believe ELARA is an affiliate resort. I think there is additional risk with these as HGVC does not have an obligation to continue support of the affiliate resort and could cancel at any time. For this reason I turned down a purchase at Elara last year. Does anyone else share this concern?

None. HGVC has an ownership stake in the property, they manage it and are actively selling it. On why HGVC doesn't do trade in's at Elara? It's a HUGE building (1500 rooms) and they need as many people paying MF's as possible. I believe it's why you are seeing so few ROFR's being exercised there. If/when we purchase more points, it's one of the places we will be looking at.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

None. HGVC has an ownership stake in the property, they manage it and are actively selling it. On why HGVC doesn't do trade in's at Elara? It's a HUGE building (1500 rooms) and they need as many people paying MF's as possible. I believe it's why you are seeing so few ROFR's being exercised there. If/when we purchase more points, it's one of the places we will be looking at.

I agree there is zero chance HGV would drop their affiliation with Elara, you should not worry about.

The main reason you cannot trade in or use your Elara unit as equity for an upgrade, it that its classified as a "managed resort".

A few years back, HGV formed a joint venture with Blackstone to buy all of Elara. However even though they own the resort, its operated as a joint venture so its classified as Managed.

See this list of resorts and their classification:

https://www.hgv.com/development/

I don't believe you can trade any of managed resorts back towards an upgrade. It would create a conflict if some of the sales inventory is owned by HGV and some by the joint venture.

 

[dayooper]

I agree there is zero chance HGV would drop their affiliation with Elara, you should not worry about.

The main reason you cannot trade in or use your Elara unit as equity for an upgrade, it that its classified as a "managed resort".

A few years back, HGV formed a joint venture with Blackstone to buy all of Elara. However even though they own the resort, its operated as a joint venture so its classified as Managed.

See this list of resorts and their classification:

https://www.hgv.com/development/

I don't believe you can trade any of managed resorts back towards an upgrade. It would create a conflict if some of the sales inventory is owned by HGV and some by the joint venture.

I wonder if you can trade in Grand Islander, Las Palmeras, Sunrise or the South Carolina properties? Those are the other Fee-For-Service resorts.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

I have read posts on FB from people upset that they have been denied the ability to trade in Grand Islander as well as Ocean Oak and Ocean 22. Don't think i have read anything about Sunrise or Las Palmas but i assume those are ineligible as well.

The business model for all these resorts have the developer or Joint Venture owning all the inventory until HGV sells it for the first time.

I believe the JV / developer would still have ROFR, and if they choose to exercise their right the unit goes back into their pool of unsold units. They won't have much incentive take a unit back in trade to enable someone to buy elsewhere.

 

[Finsadbel]

None. HGVC has an ownership stake in the property, they manage it and are actively selling it. On why HGVC doesn't do trade in's at Elara? It's a HUGE building (1500 rooms) and they need as many people paying MF's as possible. I believe it's why you are seeing so few ROFR's being exercised there. If/when we purchase more points, it's one of the places we will be looking at.

Is it possible that they pick and choose who can “upgrade” or “trade up” their ELARA properties? I’ve heard both ways on owners being successful and unsuccessful.


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[dougp26364]

Is it possible that they pick and choose who can “upgrade” or “trade up” their ELARA properties? I’ve heard both ways on owners being successful and unsuccessful.


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What I’ve learned is that it’s not the prospect, it’s the salesperson. Newbie sales staff have one offer they can make. More senior sales reps have more latitude.

No upgrade option? No problem! I’m walking. Suddenly there is “this one program” that’s not available to everyone (makes you feel special).

If you want to buy from the developer tell them what you want and then stand your ground. You’ll be surprised at the closed doors that suddenly swing open.

 

[dayooper]

What I’ve learned is that it’s not the prospect, it’s the salesperson. Newbie sales staff have one offer they can make. More senior sales reps have more latitude.

No upgrade option? No problem! I’m walking. Suddenly there is “this one program” that’s not available to everyone (makes you feel special).

If you want to buy from the developer tell them what you want and then stand your ground. You’ll be surprised at the closed doors that suddenly swing open.

Unless you want developer sales at resale prices.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Is it possible that they pick and choose who can “upgrade” or “trade up” their ELARA properties? I’ve heard both ways on owners being successful and unsuccessful.

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I am not sure, perhaps they do. My comments were based on the information HGV management shares in their investor calls, combined with what people have reported in various social media like Facebook. Policies could change from time to time.

 

[Finsadbel]

What I’ve learned is that it’s not the prospect, it’s the salesperson. Newbie sales staff have one offer they can make. More senior sales reps have more latitude.

No upgrade option? No problem! I’m walking. Suddenly there is “this one program” that’s not available to everyone (makes you feel special).

If you want to buy from the developer tell them what you want and then stand your ground. You’ll be surprised at the closed doors that suddenly swing open.

That’s a great idea! I don’t think we would ever actually BUY direct but I like to see what extra’s we could get them to throw in.

On another note, if we purchase another ELARA resale, but on the Westgate side, could we combine the two and utilize II? Hilton will not allow the HGVC side of the ELARA to trade on II, even though it is listed on II as “ELARA , a Hilton Grand Vacations Club”.


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[CalGalTraveler]

IMO...Affiliates in which HGVC has made an investment have very low probability of change. Grand Islander, Bay Club would also fall into this category. However you run the risk of not being able to trade-in or deedback your property. Not sure how Elara fits these days with the Blackstone buyout.

Alliances in which there a reciprocal trading relationship, no HGVC ownership and no HGVC sales have a high probability of change because two major timeshare companies negotiate terms periodically. Examples Fiesta Americana (recent devaluation), Anantara (relationship cancelled in 2017), Grand Mayan/Bliss, Donatello

 

[terces]

IMO...Affiliates in which HGVC has made an investment have very low probability of change. Grand Islander, Bay Club would also fall into this category. However you run the risk of not being able to trade-in or deedback your property. Not sure how Elara fits these days with the Blackstone buyout.

Alliances in which there a reciprocal trading relationship, no HGVC ownership and no HGVC sales have a high probability of change because two major timeshare companies negotiate terms periodically. Examples Fiesta Americana (recent devaluation), Anantara (relationship cancelled in 2017), Grand Mayan/Bliss, Donatello

I believe the Carlsbad affiliates fall in to this category as well with recent changes. I don't have first hand info but recall this situation being reported here recently.

 

[gunner13734]

I currently own a converted platinum week at Elara. I just attended an owners update in July and HGVC was glad to take it back, allowing me to put the original price paid towards an upgrade.

 

[CanuckTravlr]

I think there is far too much concern here with "affiliated" status, which has different meanings at different locations. We own at Ocean 22, which is technically an "affiliated" resort, in that it wasn't fully developed by HGVC. It was done in co-operation with Strand Group, as was Ocean Oak, Ocean Enclave and the new Liberty bHC in Charleston. All initial sales are handled by HGVC. There is a mutual benefit to all parties to retain the relationship.

HGVC does not have sufficiently deep pockets to build and sell everything on its own. To expand the way it wants to, now that HGVC is a separate company, it must rely on co-development. These co-developments, which are in the majority of new developments, need to be differentiated from those where many of the units have the option of joining HGVC or not, or where there is just a reciprocal arrangement. We do not have that right...our unit must enroll in HGVC, even on resale.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

There are three areas of concern:

1) Could they spin off?
Usually not when it is built by a third party and then sold by HGVC e.g. Grand Islander.
However, if it is owned by another timeshare property - it could happen e.g. Intrawest/Diamond acquisition. Grand Pacific could be acquired by a competitor.

2) Can you sell it back for an upgrade? Depends on how much HGVC owns the property vs. manages it. I heard they will not take back Grand Islander for an upgrade because it is not an "owned" HGVC property.

3) Could they devalue points or leave the HGVC system? - higher probability if they are alliances e.g. Fiesta American, Anantara, Grand Mayan

 

[Talent312]

BTW, folks, HGVC's reliance on affiliates is baked into It's DNA. There was no "club" to speak of, until Hilton partnered with Mariner which brought the SW Florida affiliates on board. So HGVC partnerships are the stripes of this tiger.

.

 

[Remy]

BTW, folks, HGVC's reliance on affiliates is baked into It's DNA.
There was no "club" to speak of, until Hilton partnered with

What is Mariner Group?

 

[dayooper]

What is Mariner Group?

The Mariner Group was a developer that originally developed the SW Florida properties. Hilton partnered with them when they started the system and eventually, for a lack of a better term, were absorbed by the HGVC division. The Mariner Group gave HGVC it’s start and direction.