Exchanging seems too good to be true

[Passepartout]

How come nobody has mentioned the additional costs of exchanging? On top of your own resort's annual maintenance, don't forget to add the better part of $100 for membership to RCI or II (unless it's included. You're still paying it, it's just not broken out as a separate charge) then there's that ~$300 exchange fee.

So, in many (most) cases, exchanging where you own for somewhere else will cost close you $400 a week more than just staying where you own. And if you're fortunate enough to own enough points or exchange power for multiple exchanges, just double (or more) that number.

Exchanging is not just a 'I'll let you use my week and I'll take yours' kind of deal.

Jim

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Also need to factor in international owners. HGVC sells many units especially in Hawaii to buyers in Japan and S. Korea. Asian owners may not have the language proficiency, commonality of time zone, nor knowledge of the U.S. rental markets to rent out their unit. A native language equivalent of TUG may not exist in these locations to educate owners as to their options.

We traded in RCI for a two story 3 bdrm OV penthouse at Lagoon Tower for July 4 week for only 5800 HGVC points (or about $1200 for the week). This unit rents for $5000 a day on the Hilton site (if you can get it). If we used HGVC points directly it would have cost 9600 points but usually that week is booked by home week owners.

We surmised it was owned by an Asian family who traded it for something else in HGVC or RCI. Our OGS was old and RCI lists us as trading NYC (even though we only exchange our Vegas points in RCI) so we had high priority for the trade.

 

[Eric B]

How come nobody has mentioned the additional costs of exchanging? On top of your own resort's annual maintenance, don't forget to add the better part of $100 for membership to RCI or II (unless it's included. You're still paying it, it's just not broken out as a separate charge) then there's that ~$300 exchange fee.

So, in many (most) cases, exchanging where you own for somewhere else will cost close you $400 a week more than just staying where you own. And if you're fortunate enough to own enough points or exchange power for multiple exchanges, just double (or more) that number.

Exchanging is not just a 'I'll let you use my week and I'll take yours' kind of deal.

Jim

That is an essential part of determining whether or not I exchange somewhere or own there, but you should also factor in the cost of acquiring a timeshare. Given the disparity in costs of MFs at timeshares I use and the differences between the exchange systems' fees and resort fees charged by more and more timeshares, I find it worthwhile to consider the total cost of going to a resort as a decision input rather than just seeking to avoid exchange fees. I've actually wound up using one of my TS with a low MF to exchange into another TS or two that I own because it turned out to be a better use of my resources than using my ownership there directly on a few occasions. Of course, there are ones that I own and go to in the week/unit I own because of how circumstances work out for those, but I don't think I would ever been a position to generalize whether that approach is the optimum for everyone because it means I've got to keep track of the differences. If one has that type of interest, though, TS arbitrage can be beneficial.

Eric

 

[VacationForever]

How come nobody has mentioned the additional costs of exchanging? On top of your own resort's annual maintenance, don't forget to add the better part of $100 for membership to RCI or II (unless it's included. You're still paying it, it's just not broken out as a separate charge) then there's that ~$300 exchange fee.

So, in many (most) cases, exchanging where you own for somewhere else will cost close you $400 a week more than just staying where you own. And if you're fortunate enough to own enough points or exchange power for multiple exchanges, just double (or more) that number.

Exchanging is not just a 'I'll let you use my week and I'll take yours' kind of deal.

Jim

I did. See post #22.

 

[Panina]

I have been trading many years. I have almost always gotten in trade with II what I wanted. Even with the membership and fees it costs me less to trade then to own at most of the resort I trade into. The key is to have a high power trading week AND putting your requests in over a year out preferable 1 1/2 to 2 years out. Many people do not, so if a week becomes available early you will have lots less competition. With this said I also have gotten great trades less then a year out. I have on occasion tried a few months out with little success.

 

[Laurie]

I've actually snagged some of my best exchanges while I was on another exchange! A hobby for the evening, after settled in from a hectic day of sight-seeing.

 

[ski_sierra]

Most of the inventory available for exchange at branded resorts comes from developer deposits, not from regular timeshares owners.

Does this mean, most of the weeks that are deposited by developers are off peak weeks? I don't understand why a developer would deposit a peak week. They have an established channel to sell inventory on their hotel partner websites. I have rented timeshares from Marriott/Starwood/Hilton in the past. But even their rates in off peak are higher than what you can get with exchanging. I guess they use multiple channels to unload their inventory.

I can see how developers who don't have a strong brand can have difficulty selling their inventory. But they have booking.com, vrbo, AirBnB and the likes.

In addition to what has been said about high cost inventory being due to developer deposits, I believe some of the ability of folks with lower cost TS to trade into higher value units has to do with contractual arrangements between their developers and RCI or II. For example, Vacation Village resorts do a lot of developer deposits with RCI, but some of their resorts do quite well as traders in RCI Points. It can't be due to the low available inventory of the resorts, but instead has to be part of the u deleting arrangements that essentially set up the owner of a points-based unit as a frequent exchanger.

I don't understand this. How do developers benefit from the arrangement?

Also need to factor in international owners. HGVC sells many units especially in Hawaii to buyers in Japan and S. Korea. Asian owners may not have the language proficiency, commonality of time zone, nor knowledge of the U.S. rental markets to rent out their unit. A native language equivalent of TUG may not exist in these locations to educate owners as to their options.

This makes sense. Clearly involves

 

[VacationForever]

Does this mean, most of the weeks that are deposited by developers are off peak weeks? I don't understand why a developer would deposit a peak week. They have an established channel to sell inventory on their hotel partner websites. I have rented timeshares from Marriott/Starwood/Hilton in the past. But even their rates in off peak are higher than what you can get with exchanging. I guess they use multiple channels to unload their inventory.

Most weeks that are deposited are indeed off peak weeks. Expecting to snag an exchange into top resorts during peak holiday weeks or peak season is most likely going to result in disappointment.

 

[bnoble]

Does this mean, most of the weeks that are deposited by developers are off peak weeks? I don't understand why a developer would deposit a peak week.

In general, yes. Most resort systems deposit only what (they believe will be) the leftovers after at least some of the internal reservation demand is satisfied. For example, Wyndham deposits Club Wyndham and WorldMark units a good couple of months after the internal club reservation period begins. So, things that book quickly internally (e.g. in Club Wyndham: summer MB oceanfront, Alexandria during school vacations, the Dells waterpark resort on weekends, etc.) never made it to the RCI space bank. As an extreme: DVC deposits almost exclusively the least popular room size of the least popular resort for internal reservations, 1BR SSR units.

On the other end of the spectrum is HGVC, which inexplicably deposits once or twice a year, well before owners can book, and including some amazing weeks. I exchanged into a 3BR Penthouse in Lagoon Tower in June several years ago. It required a huge pile of TPU, but was totally worth it. There is no way I would ever have spent what it would take to rent that on the open market.

 

[dickgregory]

Unsolicited advice: Buying a timeshare with the expectation that you'll use it most often for exchanges in RCI, II, or elsewhere is a bad idea. It is a particularly bad idea if you are new to timesharing. Yes, I do it. Yes, I've gotten some great trades. But, doing this well has taken me a ton of time spent reading, learning, and experimenting. It requires flexibility, the ability to plan combined with a willingness to be impulsive, and nerves of steel while waiting for an "important" exchange to happen. Over time, the ability to find arbitrage situations has gotten harder and I expect that trend to continue. In short: it is a recipe for disappointment.

In my opinion, the average person who wants to get involved in this vacation model would be better served buying a mini-system on the secondary market with a variety of resorts that you can imagine visiting over the next 5-7 years at least.

I agree it does take a lot of time tracking down these great trade opportunities. It seems there are much better ways to "spend" this time, particularly in the golden years. However, it's a real shot of adrenaline when a 3-bedroom can be confirmed at the Maui Ocean Club for a Marriott efficiency unit in Florida. Perhaps our best trade ever. This was inside of 60 days before check-in so no step up fees by Intervals. Woohoo!

 

[alexadeparis]

When I first started out a dozen or so years ago, i played the exchange game more than I do now. As i had more money to invest, I tweaked my portfolio to all mini systems and now only do an occasional exchange. I let family and friends use my RCI account and keep excess Hyatt points in eee for my own occasional exchange. As i got into the nicer systems on exchange, i realized I wanted to be able to get those all the time. Its less hassle to buy where i want to go or in a system for internal bookings than to mess around with exchanges and all their rules and fees.

 

[chapjim]

I would disagree, no luck is involved. TS exchanging is a game - learn the rules, play with effort and you can certainly win. For me....it takes time and effort. But since I work from home most days I can easily have II and RCI running on the computer besides my work laptop to watch and learn what is going on in the exchange world.

I'm trying to think of a game where no luck is involved. Learning the rules and expending effort increase one's chances of winning but if that's all it took, it wouldn't be a game.

 

[alwysonvac]

In general, yes. Most resort systems deposit only what (they believe will be) the leftovers after at least some of the internal reservation demand is satisfied. For example, Wyndham deposits Club Wyndham and WorldMark units a good couple of months after the internal club reservation period begins. So, things that book quickly internally (e.g. in Club Wyndham: summer MB oceanfront, Alexandria during school vacations, the Dells waterpark resort on weekends, etc.) never made it to the RCI space bank. As an extreme: DVC deposits almost exclusively the least popular room size of the least popular resort for internal reservations, 1BR SSR units.

On the other end of the spectrum is HGVC, which inexplicably deposits once or twice a year, well before owners can book, and including some amazing weeks. I exchanged into a 3BR Penthouse in Lagoon Tower in June several years ago. It required a huge pile of TPU, but was totally worth it. There is no way I would ever have spent what it would take to rent that on the open market.

This could also be the reason why we haven’t seen the HGVC bulk. Maybe HGVC has changed their strategy to align with the others

To those who don’t know...
The trading game is always changing. We’ve seen deposit patterns change over the years with various systems. The thing to remember is that nothing is guaranteed when it comes to exchanging. The rules can change at any time.

Sometimes it’s best to grab the opportunity when you see it, especially when new resorts become available via the exchange companies. Here are some that became available for a brief time that I wish I changed my plans and took advantage of - Disney Aulani, Disney Grand Californian Villas and Hyatt Ka’anapali.

 

[ronandjoan]

Let me just add a note about the smaller exchange companies which no one seems to have mentioned much on this thread. With the High Fees of II and RCI ( plus the annual membership fees) it doesn’t make sense to limit yourself just to those companies. They may have a larger inventory than the smaller companies but it is still sometimes difficult to get an exchange in a certain area you might want in RCI or II. Also, On-Going Searches are not always correctly matched: I have found the exact week I wanted in the online inventory which means my search request was ignored somehow by the computer.

That has never happened with the following companies: Platinum Interchange and DAE. PLUS, a most important element is you have a personal contact with these companies!

Platinum Interchange has been the one we use the most and we just spent two weeks at Laguna Beach with them (done it the last two years also) and have a summer week coming up on the Oregon Coast ( also three times there with PI in past years.)

Right now Peacock Suites in Anaheim is available for a mid-December week — granted not a holiday week, but the Disney Christmas lights are up. These exchanges have been done with what you have been calling low value ( and older, that is “Legacy”) properties, but which we are careful to deposit at a high value time ( altho DAE and PI generally accept any time.)

In addition, Platinum Interchange gives you a bonus week and 90 days to use it at any of their inventory, thus, prorating your MF in half and using their low exchange rate of $129.

We landed a PI bonus week for a summer Wyndham Kona Hawaiian Resort week which I had already reserved with Wyn points, so I immediately cancelled the Wyn reservation and got those points back, saving then a value of $1200/week for a cost of $386/week).

Our favorite Hawaii resort ... (actually our favorite exchange property done out of over 300 timeshares stays) is Sea Mountain on the BI, which we get every year from PI. (If you don’t like being near the Black Sand Beach, they have a sister resort Sea Village, in town which we have also traded into with them.) Our favorite Mexico exchange is Los Tules in Puerto Vallarta ( 20 acres, 7 pools, oceanfront) again from PI. DAE just called offering a Whiskey Jack early August week in BC ( from an on-going request.) PI has also given us Worldmarks.

Yes, it is indeed a game. I even wrote an article in Timesharing Today m, titled “Winning the Timeshare Game.” To win with the smaller companies, check out their websites for a while and find what inventory you like that they generally have inventory for that would meet your interests and then call to request. Yes, you can request before depositing but you’ll need to be ready to deposit if you get a match. For example , now I have on-going requests for summers in WA, OR coast and North ID and then southern CA ( within one hour of Anaheim) for April-May. ( check my BLOG to see why those dates.)

I do not find many summer WA-OR coast weeks available in RCI. I already have the 2019 summer booked enough so my requests now are for 2020.

The larger exchange companies’ higher rates, impersonal VC’s , and the difficulty in exchanging have led us to successful vacationing with the smaller ones. I only suggest you might check them out as other (occasional?) options.

 

[rapmarks]

I gave DAE weeks, and had a hard time matching anything. And the exact week I requested showed up as sold months after my request. One place I accepted was so bad, we drove home the next morning. I stopped giving DAE weeks.

 

[WinniWoman]

I loved trading with RCI before the age of TPU's. I thought it was so much fun! Sometimes I wish I still did, but then I come to my senses. LOL!

 

[TravelTime]

I have gotten some high season exchanges worth more than what I used to exchange:
- 3 BR Four Seasons Costa Rica platinum week worth about $20,000+ per week (traded a gold 2 BR Four Seasons Aviara plus about an extra $1000 for the upcharge and trading fee)
- MKO 2 BR OV in Hawaii over Thanksgiving (traded for a low season 1 BR in Spain)
- high season winter (Feb 2020) 2 BR (3400 sf) Garza Blanca Residence Club in Puerto Vallarta (traded about $2100 in DVC points; this exchange is worth $5000-$7000 a week)

I have never gotten a bad trade and I have only done 4 trades in 2 years. I do not spend a lot of time on trading since I really do not like it and only do it for high value trades that are worth it. I have one studio deposit in II right now (since I split it and this is more convenient to me than renting it). I may be trading something in Elite Alliance to try it out next year.

 

[Eric B]

I have gotten some high season exchanges worth more than what I used to exchange:
- 3 BR Four Seasons Costa Rica platinum week worth about $20,000+ per week (traded a gold 2 BR Four Seasons Aviara plus about an extra $1000 for the upcharge and trading fee)
- MKO 2 BR OV in Hawaii over Thanksgiving (traded for a low season 1 BR in Spain)
- high season winter (Feb 2020) 2 BR Garza Blanca Residence Club in Puerto Vallarta (traded about $2100 in DVC points and this exchange in high season is worth $5000-$7000 a week)

I have never gotten a bad trade and I have only done 3-4 trades in 2 years. I do not spend a lot of time on trading since I really do not like it and only do it for high value trades that are worth it.

Let's be perfectly honest, though; you got the Four Seasons Costa Rica through the lottery with Four Seasons as an owner at Aviara rather than through an actual exchange system. That's not the same as exchanging as everyone thinks of that. And I'm not convinced the other exchanges you did were via RCI, II or one of the lower tier exchange systems; based on what you posted about Garza Blanca, you got that via DVC and The Registry Collection. Frankly, I applaud your use of multiple exchange systems, including the higher end ones, but what everyone else has been posting about here is the run of the mill ones, so it's not really apples-to-apples as a comparison; I don't think anyone will ever get Four Seasons Costa Rica using a OGS in either RCI or II, so it's not something to aspire to in those systems.

In my opinion, you can get perfectly good and decent exchanges in RCI and II, very good ones using SFX/DAE/etc., if you are happy with what they have to offer, quite nice ones that cost a bit more using Third Home, Registry Collection or Elite Alliance if you have a TS or second home that is eligible to trade in those exchanges, and you can do very well in a number of other systems like the Four Seasons or other mini-systems that have internal exchange privileges.

What exchange system did you use for the MKO 2 BR OV and what low season 1 BR Spanish TS did you use for it, just out of curiosity?

Eric

 

[TravelTime]

The title of this post is exchanging that seems too good to be true so I am glad you think my exchanges are too good to be true. The OP was also asking about how people get more value than their exchange is worth so I think my 3 examples are relevant to the OP’s questions.

FS is through the lottery, which is an internal exchange system but you need to be eligible and own at FS. Garza Blanca is through RCI as a DVC owner so this one is available to many Tuggers. And Hawaii is through II.

I got extremely lucky for FS. Many Tuggers have commented they have entered the lottery every year and have not gotten it. I entered once and got it. Beginner’s luck.

I did not post about all my other internal exchanges that I am very happy about through Westin SOs and Marriott DPs but those are like for like internal exchanges with no extra value gained. I thought FS was more relevant since it is “too good to be true” and worth a lot more than what I am paying in fees. It is more like an external exchange than an internal one given the circumstances.

P.S. I am sure some DVC members will think my GB exchange is a poor use of points and I should have sold the points and then rented using cash. Too much work for me. This also answers the OP’s question as to why there could be some great inventory available since I exchanged DVC points. Maybe someone will get lucky now and get to stay at a nicer resort than SSR.

 

[Eric B]

Actually, the way you explained it in your other post on Garza Blanca, you got it through the RCI World Collection in DVC, which is actually The Registry Collection (points side). It's a more limited availability than many would be able to get; Garza Blanca used to show up a lot on The Registry Collection (weeks side), but has not been showing up there much in the last few months. My guess would be that the developer is transitioning to a different exchange system, but I haven't seen them showing up on Third Home, which is where a number of the other higher end Mexican ones are going. It would be interesting to know where they are going to, though there are other TS in the area that I prefer.

I don't think the ones you got are too good to be true. You've done quite well and have made some good choices in where you've invested in TS to trade with. I would say, though, that there would be more value added for the community if we knew how you were able to get the exchanges you got. I was happy to learn from @whitewater about the great exchanges he was able to make with his Pueblo Bonito Montecristo Estates ownership via Registry when he was giving that one away; I might actually wind up picking one of those up in a few years based on the knowledge I gained from that. I've also been interested in what you've posted about things you've gotten with the FS Aviara and look forward to hearing how the Costa Rica one is; you had also mentioned that you get Elite Alliance through that ownership. Still not really sure what you meant about trading a low season Spanish TS, though; is that the MVC one you list in your ownerships?

 

[TravelTime]

Actually, the way you explained it in your other post on Garza Blanca, you got it through the RCI World Collection in DVC, which is actually The Registry Collection (points side). It's a more limited availability than many would be able to get; Garza Blanca used to show up a lot on The Registry Collection (weeks side), but has not been showing up there much in the last few months. My guess would be that the developer is transitioning to a different exchange system, but I haven't seen them showing up on Third Home, which is where a number of the other higher end Mexican ones are going. It would be interesting to know where they are going to, though there are other TS in the area that I prefer.

I don't think the ones you got are too good to be true. You've done quite well and have made some good choices in where you've invested in TS to trade with. I would say, though, that there would be more value added for the community if we knew how you were able to get the exchanges you got. I was happy to learn from @whitewater about the great exchanges he was able to make with his Pueblo Bonito Montecristo Estates ownership via Registry when he was giving that one away; I might actually wind up picking one of those up in a few years based on the knowledge I gained from that. I've also been interested in what you've posted about things you've gotten with the FS Aviara and look forward to hearing how the Costa Rica one is; you had also mentioned that you get Elite Alliance through that ownership. Still not really sure what you meant about trading a low season Spanish TS, though; is that the MVC one you list in your ownerships?

I thought I was clear in my posting but maybe not. It is hard to get all my thoughts out in the amount of detail that Tuggers like to hear.

I put in an OGS about a year ago through RCI (not the Registry) as a DVC owner for ANY Garza Blanca. I may have specified 2BR+. The only reason I know it is World Collection/The Registry is because the confirmation says so. So basically it was a regular RCI OGS for a 2 BR Garza Blanca and they gave me one through the World Collection/Registry Collection for a residence unit. I did not request it that way.

All DVC owners automatically get access to The Registry Collection. I actually do not like the properties on The Registry. There are too few and, with a few exceptions, most of them are not overly impressive. Garza Blanca is available through regular RCI and the residences are available through the Registry. My request was for either one.

Also, I got confirmed for high season 10 months in advance, which I thought was great since reading on TUG, people say it is hard to get good units at the high end properties in Mexico in high season.

I hope Garza Blanca is not moving to Third Home. I have access to Third Home through Marriott Vacation Club. I think Marriott only gives us access to last minute left overs, not the good stuff. Maybe Third Home is better if you go through someone other than Marriott Vacation Club. So far, I like the properties on Elite Alliance for the variety of managed resorts/clubs and destinations as well as Villas of Distinctions if you are looking for a full home (but VOD is super expensive in DP values).

However, I have not yet used Elite Alliance myself. I am waiting to make my deposit because they only allow you to have 2 years from the date of deposit, not from the reservation date of the deposit like II. So it is in my best interests to wait until as late this year as possible to make a deposit. Then I can use it into 2020 and 2021.

I own a 1 BR gold-holiday season at Marriott Marbella. I got one free week when I purchased it. I exchanged it for the 2 BR at Marriott Ko Olina and got an ocean view over Thanksgiving. It is worth less than half the MF of MKO. I actually own at MKO too.

 

[ski_sierra]

I agree it does take a lot of time tracking down these great trade opportunities. It seems there are much better ways to "spend" this time, particularly in the golden years. However, it's a real shot of adrenaline when a 3-bedroom can be confirmed at the Maui Ocean Club for a Marriott efficiency unit in Florida. Perhaps our best trade ever. This was inside of 60 days before check-in so no step up fees by Intervals. Woohoo!

Exchanging seems to be addictive similar to video games, smart phones, email and news. We get sucked in and waste our time because it's "fun". I had read about this dopamine hit in one of the books on habits: how to build habit forming products. It is pretty evil stuff employed by facebook, gmail and many companies.


Another gambling concept that has made it to video games is that our brains actually respond more strongly to uncertain rewards than to certain ones. A certain reward of five gold at the end of a level is way less exciting to us than a random chance at getting anywhere from one to ten gold.
From:
https://www.maketecheasier.com/why-games-are-designed-addictive/

 

[VacationForever]

My best trades were using 2 weeks of 1BR to 2 weeks of 3BR at MKO Ocean view about 8 months out for March stay. We were assigned to the 8th floor Ocean view.

 

[TravelTime]

Exchanging seems to be addictive similar to video games, smart phones, email and news. We get sucked in and waste our time because it's "fun". I had read about this dopamine hit in one of the books on habits: how to build habit forming products. It is pretty evil stuff employed by facebook, gmail and many companies.


Another gambling concept that has made it to video games is that our brains actually respond more strongly to uncertain rewards than to certain ones. A certain reward of five gold at the end of a level is way less exciting to us than a random chance at getting anywhere from one to ten gold.
From:
https://www.maketecheasier.com/why-games-are-designed-addictive/

I think you are right. I was very addicted for a while. I have taken a break and now I am re-evaluating if I really like timeshares vs just planning where I want to go, when I want to go, and paying the best price I can find. I am in Spain now, and I really prefer the 5 star hotels over marriott marbella which is 3.5 star at best and very very expensive for anything. A sangria is 15 euros which is $17 US. I was paying about 3 to 4 euros in Madrid and Seville at the tabernas. Not more than 13 euros at the truly 5 star hotels.

 

[PrairieGirl]

It seems like the more successful approach to exchanging is go where the availability is rather than find availability for where you want to go. The sightings forum is a good way to keep up on what becomes available.

- BINGO! If you keep this attitude you will make many trades that you are happy with.

Also, keep in mind that if you have the flexibility to travel at the "last minute" there will OFTEN be Marriotts (and the like) that show up two weeks to one day before the check indate.