Plausible Info Re: The Merger

[WalnutBaron]

Since many of us who own Hyatt may rarely read other boards, I thought I'd share this post from JMinNC regarding an owner's update (I know, I know--bear with me) and what he was told about the possible joining of Marriott with Vistana and Hyatt, giving owners access to each others' systems.

Of course, this info comes from the sales weasels, but it sounds plausible, if for no other reason than that it's not being overblown.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Since many of us who own Hyatt may rarely read other boards, I thought I'd share this post from JMinNC regarding an owner's update (I know, I know--bear with me) and what he was told about the possible joining of Marriott with Vistana and Hyatt, giving owners access to each others' systems.

Of course, this info comes from the sales weasels, but it sounds plausible, if for no other reason than that it's not being overblown.

Do you know which owner's update it was from. In the past Hyatt and Vistana were saying everything would remain separate but Marriott sales have implied a joining of all 3.

 

[WalnutBaron]

According to the original post, it was a Vistana presentation.

 

[Sapper]

Since many of us who own Hyatt may rarely read other boards, I thought I'd share this post from JMinNC regarding an owner's update (I know, I know--bear with me) and what he was told about the possible joining of Marriott with Vistana and Hyatt, giving owners access to each others' systems.

Of course, this info comes from the sales weasels, but it sounds plausible, if for no other reason than that it's not being overblown.

Thanks for the info.

Somewhere (Marriott forum?) a while back I read there would be an announcement in the first quarter of this year. There is a lot going on though, so would be happy to hear something definitive in 2019.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Thanks for the info.

Somewhere (Marriott forum?) a while back I read there would be an announcement in the first quarter of this year. There is a lot going on though, so would be happy to hear something definitive in 2019.

Makes me want to book my stays before the changes come through

 

[Sapper]

Makes me want to book my stays before the changes come through

It pushed me into buying at Highlands Inn. I imagine the deal pushed some into selling.

 

[breezez]

It pushed me into buying at Highlands Inn. I imagine the deal pushed some into selling.

I think TS are always trying to push people into buying

 

[breezez]

I posted on here before the way each system is set up would make it extremely difficult to blend the systems.

I see them possibly doing something along the lines of Wyndham / WorldMark. They take so many units of X resort and sell to club Y system, in return for Y resort selling some units back to X resort.

This gives them the opportunity to expand resort holdings to each system without spending much development costs.

Since buying ILG gives them a big exchange system, they can likely also create an internal exchange preference within interval for their own brands. Wyndham WorldMark did this calling it club pass, but they limit the benefit to Wyndhamized ownerships.

 

[AJCts411]

Wondering if there are any new developments with the merger? What is Hyatt sales saying if you been to a "update" recently.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Marriott is focusing on Vistana right now so ìt will be awhile if ever before they turn to Hyatt. Hyatts model will be more challenging.

 

[bdh]

While Hyatt, Marriott and Vistana have different heritage's, they're all in "one big family" now. Having them all under one umbrella is an opportunity to create a TS "dream team", it would be silly/stupid for them to miss the opportunity. (Hard to imagine that Marriott said "Let's buy ILG and keep everything the same".)

What will stay the same:

Expect the existing systems to remain separate for legacy owners. For Hyatt, that's pretty much a given as a deed trumps any point system that can be created. So for Hyatt legacy owners that use their week as a week, there wouldn't be any significant changes (you may have to call a different phone number to confirm, but the week is yours). Marriott has been successfully running 2 parallel systems (weeks & points) for 7 or 8 years and Hyatt has been doing weeks and points since day one, so no reason for that the stop.

Expect the separate point systems to remain unchanged - while the Trust scenario used by Marriott and Hyatt is the same format, the points systems appear too different to be combined (disclosure: not a points owner and do not have a complete grasp of the nuances between the point systems). What may change for Hyatt deeded legacy owners is the ease of internal exchanges from their home property/week to a different Hyatt property or different home property week as the point system erodes the availability of legacy weeks in the exchange pool over time. FWIW: The Hyatt deed guarantees an individual owner the use of their deeded week, however the ability to do internal exchanges is not guaranteed - exchanges are a "benefit".

What will change:

While the old (current) points program will remain in place, expect there to be an overlay system that creates a platform for "cross-pollination" between the 3 systems. No doubt that the path for an individual owner in one system to have access to another system will be to buy points. Similar to what Hyatt is doing with the new buildings at Coconut and Wild Oak, those new buildings are for HPP points owners - expect the same scenario would be applied to the "cross-pollination" between systems and an individual would need to buy into the overlay system. Since Marriott has done this before, its possible that there will be a window for legacy and old (current) points owners to buy in/exchange into the new overlay system.

 

[Sapper]

I do not know enough about the Marriott points (DC Points?) to compare and contrast with the Hyatt Point Program. I do know both programs were created by the same folks. My guess is they might not be exactly the same, but they rhyme enough that a good lawyer could figure out a way for them to work together.

I believe that they will want to remove the Hyatt branding. If not because of the stipulation Hyatt placed on the branding when II purchased the properties, then to get rid of the additional fees that branding incurs. That is going to cause problems for the few properties which are combo hotel and timeshare under the same roof (so to speak), and different issues with hotel and timeshare which are co-located and have friendly property use agreements. Then, is a new name created and all of the former Hyatt properties placed under this new name, or do they break the system and place the different properties under existing brands with which they best fit. Ie, Beach House with Marriott and Park Hyatt Beaver Creek with Ritz?

While the deed does not guarantee an internal exchange, from day one Hyatt has marketed and sold the use of internal exchange. I could see some kind of class action suit being brought if this is ended with out a like system to take its place. Then again, Marriott has a team of lawyers who like to look busy, so.... maybe management decides its worth the trouble.

I think the question of keep seperate and use II as an exchange vs use of an overlay and charge an upfront fee for being allowed to participate in the overlay will come down to where Marriott believes they can make the most money. When I looked at back of the napkin kind of speculative math, the charge for participation in an overlay comes out way ahead for the Marriott bottom line. Vistana will be the first program to be integrated, overlayed, or kept seperate with an exchange deal. We will be able to watch and learn more about the direction they will probably go with the Hyatt properties.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

I do not know enough about the Marriott points (DC Points?) to compare and contrast with the Hyatt Point Program. I do know both programs were created by the same folks. My guess is they might not be exactly the same, but they rhyme enough that a good lawyer could figure out a way for them to work together.

I believe that they will want to remove the Hyatt branding. If not because of the stipulation Hyatt placed on the branding when II purchased the properties, then to get rid of the additional fees that branding incurs. That is going to cause problems for the few properties which are combo hotel and timeshare under the same roof (so to speak), and different issues with hotel and timeshare which are co-located and have friendly property use agreements. Then, is a new name created and all of the former Hyatt properties placed under this new name, or do they break the system and place the different properties under existing brands with which they best fit. Ie, Beach House with Marriott and Park Hyatt Beaver Creek with Ritz?

While the deed does not guarantee an internal exchange, from day one Hyatt has marketed and sold the use of internal exchange. I could see some kind of class action suit being brought if this is ended with out a like system to take its place. Then again, Marriott has a team of lawyers who like to look busy, so.... maybe management decides its worth the trouble.

I think the question of keep seperate and use II as an exchange vs use of an overlay and charge an upfront fee for being allowed to participate in the overlay will come down to where Marriott believes they can make the most money. When I looked at back of the napkin kind of speculative math, the charge for participation in an overlay comes out way ahead for the Marriott bottom line. Vistana will be the first program to be integrated, overlayed, or kept seperate with an exchange deal. We will be able to watch and learn more about the direction they will probably go with the Hyatt properties.

Hopefully it will take them awhile. They spoke of asigning a points equivalent to all properties across Vistana and Hyatt and having one bucket last summer when we attended our Marriott presentation. We will attend a presentation this summer to see if we can a feel for where things are.

 

[dagger1]

Yesterday I called Marriott to talk to a vacation counselor to move our 7 night Marriott Waiohai stay in September to November. After the date change, he mentioned that I should definitely stay tuned because changes were coming (I had mentioned we owned several Hyatt week’s and were purchasing a HKB week.) He had no details. This young man was not in sales, strictly a vacation counselor. I still assume they don’t know anymore than we do: that changes might be coming...
Since Marriott and Hyatt are all moving to points only, I assume the changes will mainly have to do with making points sales easier and more lucrative.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I still feel being a week owner at Hyatt for a week I will usually use will still be a good thing to have going forward...

 

[dagger1]

I still feel being a week owner at Hyatt for a week I will usually use will still be a good thing to have going forward...

I completely agree. We bought our Hyatt week/units to use so I am expecting no impact at all. The changes may effect trading, hopefully for the better. We know any changes that are implemented will beneficially effect Marriott.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

For us it would have a huge impact as we rarely stay at our own resort duri g times we own. We love the ability to exchange. We own places we like and it wouldn't be horrid just not our preference. If there is one large exchange pool we would end up needing to buy Marriott points most likely to qualify our weeks for exchanging. Owning 4 weeks already we are not in need of extra .Marriott also requires buying more to qualify resales. We will cross that bridge when it comes and in the meantime are loving our exchanges and making great use of our weeks. The longer down the road the better.

 

[bdh]

I completely agree. We bought our Hyatt week/units to use so I am expecting no impact at all. The changes may effect trading, hopefully for the better. We know any changes that are implemented will beneficially effect Marriott.

Completely agree that there will be no change in using deeded week/units.

If Hyatt remains a separate system (which I believe it will), internal exchanges would be somewhat eroded by the HPP system over time. Not so much from the new HPP buyer, but from the HRC owner that buys into HPP. IE: current HRC owners that buy HPP, typically buy in at the lowest cost of 660 points - however 660 points doesn't really take you very far reservation wise, so the HRC owner deposits their HRC week into HPP. When that happens, the HRC week is available first to HPP owners in lieu of HRC owners. If the week is a prime week, it will never make it to the HRC legacy exchange pool period - if it's a shoulder or mud season week, it will probably make it to the legacy exchange pool period and be available to all Hyatt owners.

I don't worry too much about the new HPP buyer as the Hyatt Trust has unit availability equal to the amount of points purchased. I think it's wonderful that Hyatt is constructing new HPP buildings at Wild Oak and Coconut (and supposedly a new location in Key West) for HPP use only as that removes pressure on the legacy weeks/units - unfortunately Hyatt can't do that at all the other existing properties. A new HPP buyer may snag a prime legacy week reservation occasionally, but I don't think that will be the norm.

Unless HPP owners receive priority over HRC owners in II, wouldn't expect external exchanges to change.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Completely agree that there will be no change in using deeded week/units.

If Hyatt remains a separate system (which I believe it will), internal exchanges would be somewhat eroded by the HPP system over time. Not so much from the new HPP buyer, but from the HRC owner that buys into HPP. IE: current HRC owners that buy HPP, typically buy in at the lowest cost of 660 points - however 660 points doesn't really take you very far reservation wise, so the HRC owner deposits their HRC week into HPP. When that happens, the HRC week is available first to HPP owners in lieu of HRC owners. If the week is a prime week, it will never make it to the HRC legacy exchange pool period - if it's a shoulder or mud season week, it will probably make it to the legacy exchange pool period and be available to all Hyatt owners.

I don't worry too much about the new HPP buyer as the Hyatt Trust has unit availability equal to the amount of points purchased. I think it's wonderful that Hyatt is constructing new HPP buildings at Wild Oak and Coconut (and supposedly a new location in Key West) for HPP use only as that removes pressure on the legacy weeks/units - unfortunately Hyatt can't do that at all the other existing properties. A new HPP buyer may snag a prime legacy week reservation occasionally, but I don't think that will be the norm.

Unless HPP owners receive priority over HRC owners in II, wouldn't expect external exchanges to change.

A lot of great Hyatt trades aren't even in the HPP program such us Kaanapali, Siesta Key and many of the Colorado residences except Aspen Those are many of our favorites resorts.

 

[taffy19]

I still feel being a week owner at Hyatt for a week I will usually use will still be a good thing to have going forward...

I agree with that and certainly if you bought a week and location that you like to go to.

I completely agree. We bought our Hyatt week/units to use so I am expecting no impact at all. The changes may effect trading, hopefully for the better. We know any changes that are implemented will beneficially effect Marriott.

this is how we feel too. We recently stayed in our fixed week at the HKB but decided not to do a sales presentation.

I went to see the model downstairs and talked with the salesman who was sittng open house in the condo.

I tried to get some current prices from him and to find out how much inventory there was still left but he said that I needed to sign up for a formal update.

I mentioned to him what the Marriott salesman had told us but the Hyatt salesman said that he hadn’t heard that rumor.

It is my opinion that nobody knows anything but the Corporate Office and they are not ready to announce the changes yet but it should be soon we all hope.

I asked him about the PP program that was or still is sold at some resorts on the mainland but he claimed that he knew nothing about that either.

They are still selling weeks at the HKB and have fixed and floating weeks in the 2 BR condos only. The 1 and 3 BR condos have only fixed weeks on a higher or lower tier. The 2 BR condos have 3 tiers. The photo, that shows it all, was posted on TUG some time ago.

However, this may be interesting to note!

We came from the Marriott next door and I still had my wristband on that serves as a room key too.

The front desk noticed my band and asked me if they could re-key it. It worked on the first try and never failed once while I had to have it re-keyed and the magnetic keys too more than once at the Marriott and it never worked from one Marriott Resort to another either. They would always give me a new band free of charge and then It worked. The proceeds of these wristbands would go to Marriott’s favorite charity when we originally bought them years ago.

You make your own conclusions if changes are coming or not.

 

[bdh]

A lot of great Hyatt trades aren't even in the HPP program such us Kaanapali, Siesta Key and many of the Colorado residences except Aspen Those are many of our favorites resorts.

Correct that Kaanapali, Siesta Key and the Colorado properties except Aspen aren't in the list of HPP properties - and that's a good thing for HRC owners. However when a HRC owner at one of those resorts buys into HPP and then elects to deposit their HRC week into the HPP system, that deposited week just moved into the HPP exchange pool for that year. And that trade erosion could be why you don't get your desired HRC reservation and an HPP owner does. FWIW: That scenario has already occurred at HSH for a prime 2020 reservation that wound up as a HPP reservation in lieu of a HRC reservation.

 

[dsmrp]

I still feel being a week owner at Hyatt for a week I will usually use will still be a good thing to have going forward...

I completely agree. We bought our Hyatt week/units to use so I am expecting no impact at all. The changes may effect trading, hopefully for the better. We know any changes that are implemented will beneficially effect Marriott.

Yes I agree. I bought my Pinon Point unit to use in worst case scenario, if trading to other HRC locations costs too much $ under Marriott mgmt/stewardship. I was pretty picky about week # and bldg unit; we weren't just buying for points.

Now I also have Florida Vistana units primarily for trading. So hope having a Hyatt unit might give me a better deal after Marriott announces their system integration or overlay plans . But then again maybe not ...

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Yes I agree. I bought my Pinon Point unit to use in worst case scenario, if trading to other HRC locations costs too much $ under Marriott mgmt/stewardship. I was pretty picky about week # and bldg unit; we weren't just buying for points.

Now I also have Florida Vistana units primarily for trading. So hope having a Hyatt unit might give me a better deal after Marriott announces their system integration or overlay plans . But then again maybe not ...

I bought in Key West and I can not stay there in a condo for what I pay per week for my unit...I would really love to still be able to exchange but if that goes away I will still be able to use my unit...so hard to predict the future...

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I agree with that and certainly if you bought a week and location that you like to go to.
this is how we feel too. We recently stayed in our fixed week at the HKB but decided not to do a sales presentation.

I went to see the model downstairs and talked with the salesman who was sittng open house in the condo.

I tried to get some current prices from him and to find out how much inventory there was still left but he said that I needed to sign up for a formal update.

I mentioned to him what the Marriott salesman had told us but the Hyatt salesman said that he hadn’t heard that rumor.

It is my opinion that nobody knows anything but the Corporate Office and they are not ready to announce the changes yet but it should be soon we all hope.

I asked him about the PP program that was or still is sold at some resorts on the mainland but he claimed that he knew nothing about that either.

They are still selling weeks at the HKB and have fixed and floating weeks in the 2 BR condos only. The 1 and 3 BR condos have only fixed weeks on a higher or lower tier. The 2 BR condos have 3 tiers. The photo, that shows it all, was posted on TUG some time ago.

However, this may be interesting to note!

We came from the Marriott next door and I still had my wristband on that serves as a room key too.

The front desk noticed my band and asked me if they could re-key it. It worked on the first try and never failed once while I had to have it re-keyed and the magnetic keys too more than once at the Marriott and it never worked from one Marriott Resort to another either. They would always give me a new band free of charge and then It worked. The proceeds of these wristbands would go to Marriott’s favorite charity when we originally bought them years ago.

You make your own conclusions if changes are coming or not.

Taffy, are the wristbands still available to purchase and can I purchase at Hyatt?

 

[taffy19]

Taffy, are the wristbands still available to purchase and can I purchase at Hyatt?

I received two new wristbands at the Marriott front desk and assume that they are still selling them there. They did not charge us because the re-coding did not work.

Mine was the new turquoise color that the magnetic cards are too but my husband’s color was grey. We had bright blue bands before.

The Hyatt front desk was testing the wristbands to see how well they perform so may not be for sale yet.

I didn’t ask but they never failed and you can use them in the pool, the Marriott front desk told me.