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Marriott/Vistana overlay

Sandy VDH

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Wyndham, I believe, wanted to integrate WM and Shell into their system. But WM owners sued and won. They feared that the larger number of Wyndham Members would flood and use all their credits. This limited options on how Wyndham was to directly integrate the systems. Their solution was to take available Wyndham Inventory and swap it for available Worldmark Inventory. Thus creating some dual labeled resorts, where it was possible. There was also some small amount of inventory made available in Shell properties the same way. Then any remaining inventory swaps had to be managed via Club Pass. Yes you can booked WM via Club Pass but they end up managing the trade between them so it is not unbalanced. It is not a good deal for VIP owners as your benefits do not translate over to the Club Pass.

So how will Marriott deal with a variety of systems and structures? Will any of the members of the components taken over sue Marriott, saying they are being plundered and restricted? I don't know. But given the credit system nature of WM it was a different animal to begin with, as it was a pure points system, no underlying deeds at all. Perhaps that is why it was able to successful sue Wyndham. Time will tell, but I assume it is more complicated than we think. I know I am unsatisfied with how I have access to both Worldmark and Shell locations. So don't set your expectations very high, unless you want to be very disappointed.
 

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People who bought directly from Vistana (and mandatory weeks) will still have Star Options to internally book within the system. They may offer an olive branch out to those who bought from Vistana to convert to Flex system for a small fee to play in the sandbox.

I think this is what Vistana sales people would like to believe. This way, until major changes are announced, they can continue to tell prospects how superior these products are.
I believe that would be a major mistake on all levels and the stock would suffer greatly as a consequence.

By the way, does anyone know the percentage of Flex owners in Vistana? Say there are only 25,000 Flex owners, how would an integrated exchange program work in terms of inventory when you combine that with 400,000 Marriott owners?

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DannyTS

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By the way, as reported by various sales persons, very few Marriott owners use Interval, they find it complicated and not reliable. I do not think a system that does not have a good inventory will cut it for the majority of MVC owners
 

vacationtime1

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By the way, as reported by various sales persons, very few Marriott owners use Interval, they find it complicated and not reliable. I do not think a system that does not have a good inventory will cut it for the majority of MVC owners

Consider the source: a salesperson. Salespeople want to sell DC points, not weeks (because Marriott doesn't sell weeks, except as part of packages or when those weeks cannot be put into the DC trust). So they claim that weeks are cumbersome to use and that Interval exchanges are not reliable. Many on this board will say that is just not the case.
 
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Henry M.

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I don't use Interval because I own in Hawaii, and most Interval exchanges are not comparable. In the 17 years I've owned my weeks, I used Interval one time. The exchange was so-so, though I did get a 2BR unit in the German Alps for my Maui studio. The unit was many rungs below the Westin standard, but was big and served its purpose.

It is not easy to get foreign locations, and US locations just don't compare to the nicer Marriotts and Westins. When I first bought, Disney was part of II, but I was never able to find any availability, no matter how far ahead I looked, and what kind of units I searched. Now Disney is not even part of it anymore.

These days, I'd rather rent my week and find a place on VRBO/HomeAway or AirBnB if I want to go somewhere else. With the short term rentals, I'm not limited by timeshare locations and have a much bigger selection of where I can stay, whether it be in the center of a European capital, the beach in a remote location, or a cozy cabin on a mountainside or volcano. I can also just rent another timeshare, which is easier to do than exchange on II, when it comes to Westins, Marriotts and Hyatts.
 

tschwa2

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By the way, as reported by various sales persons, very few Marriott owners use Interval, they find it complicated and not reliable. I do not think a system that does not have a good inventory will cut it for the majority of MVC owners
You believe the reports by various sales persons?
There are probably still more Marriott owners including many many post 2010 resale owners, not eligible for the DC and pre 2010 owners who either own lower value weeks and are a part of the DC and still find it more valuable to exchange through II, than Vistana owners who exchange through II and that includes SVN and non SVN.

Marriott has pulled back on the bulk deposits into II over the last 6 years which has lead to more Marriott DC owners pulling back from the II exchanges but there are still many, many Marriott II exchange members who regularly exchange their Marriotts.
 

VacationForever

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Even though all of my ownership can be booked using StarOptions or Destination Club, I continue to use II to obtain some reservations. In general, II provides value (low $/night) over internal booking systems. For ease of booking, I use internal systems. When I am flexible and want larger units, I use II. There is a place for both.
 

dioxide45

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It is quite possible that they only allow DC Trust point owners along with Westin Flex and Sheraton Flex the ability to participate in a merged program. This would "force" people to buy in to or convert their ownership in to these products. Potentially driving sales.
 

Steve Fatula

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By the way, as reported by various sales persons, very few Marriott owners use Interval, they find it complicated and not reliable. I do not think a system that does not have a good inventory will cut it for the majority of MVC owners

Been using II since 1999. Since there are only 2 of us, we only need a 1BR, so, I always lockoff my enrolled DSV2. Why do I do this? Because, I can *always* as in always every year get a 1-2BR somewhere I want to go for a mere studio lockoff (I value the lockoff at about $550 MF). That gives me far more value than electing for points. For my Spain ownership, there is no lockoff, so, I get far more value by electing for points since it will be very rare I would occupy there.

I doubt that only a few Marriott owners use Interval. Though, it depends what few means. And, what the context is. For example, what about those owners who only ever want to go to their home resort? Obviously, they would never use II or any other system.

I do agree there are Marriott owners who find it complicated, though it isn't to me. Unreliable? Well, again, depends on the context. If you want a specific week at a specific resort and nothing else, yes, it would be.

Points systems = flexibility. Weeks = value.
 

bobpark56

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By the way, as reported by various sales persons, very few Marriott owners use Interval, they find it complicated and not reliable. I do not think a system that does not have a good inventory will cut it for the majority of MVC owners
Funny! We purchased Grande Vista in 2006 and have traded it every year through Interval...for some very nice stays. Marriott Marbella, Playa Anadaluza, Ko'Olina, Aruba Ocean Club, Kaui Beach Club, Custom House, Surf Watch, Grand Luxxe, etc.
 

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Funny! We purchased Grande Vista in 2006 and have traded it every year through Interval...for some very nice stays. Marriott Marbella, Playa Anadaluza, Ko'Olina, Aruba Ocean Club, Kaui Beach Club, Custom House, Surf Watch, Grand Luxxe, etc.
I only transmitted what I was told, I am not claiming it is true since the source is not reliable. At the same time, I am not sure that people who contribute regularly to TUG are a good sample of Marriott or Vistana owners in terms of Interval trades, best way to buy points, weeks etc.
 

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It is quite possible that they only allow DC Trust point owners along with Westin Flex and Sheraton Flex the ability to participate in a merged program. This would "force" people to buy in to or convert their ownership in to these products. Potentially driving sales.

I'm curious how the acquisition may impact the future additions to Vistana portfolio. Would there be new properties in Vistana? I like the current selection but it would be great to have a bigger internal network to use Staroptions.

For context: I'm researching purchase of SVV, WKV or SDO to stay at Vistana locations in Colorado or Hawaii.
 

bizaro86

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I'm curious how the acquisition may impact the future additions to Vistana portfolio. Would there be new properties in Vistana? I like the current selection but it would be great to have a bigger internal network to use Staroptions.

For context: I'm researching purchase of SVV, WKV or SDO to stay at Vistana locations in Colorado or Hawaii.

I think it's very unlikely new properties will be in VSN. The license agreement for the Westin/Sheraton brands gave them rights to use it for specific properties for a specific payment. If they want to brand new properties with those brands they need to renegotiate (and pay more).

Conversely, my understanding of the legacy MVC deal is that they can use the Marriott brand as much as they want.

So from a cost-benefit perspective, using the Marriott brand is likely cheaper. Marriott branded sales centers are also higher productivity.
 

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i got the Interval magazine in the mail today. There are 4 pages of advertising for the Vistana products: Westin Aventuras, Westin Flex, Sheraton flex. None for Marriott thought.
 

dioxide45

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i got the Interval magazine in the mail today. There are 4 pages of advertising for the Vistana products: Westin Aventuras, Westin Flex, Sheraton flex. None for Marriott thought.
The magazine is brand specific. You will probably see a note on the cover that it is for Vistana owners. I usually get the Vistana version but also have received the Marriott version that has Marriott advertising.
 

dioxide45

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I think it's very unlikely new properties will be in VSN. The license agreement for the Westin/Sheraton brands gave them rights to use it for specific properties for a specific payment. If they want to brand new properties with those brands they need to renegotiate (and pay more).

Conversely, my understanding of the legacy MVC deal is that they can use the Marriott brand as much as they want.

So from a cost-benefit perspective, using the Marriott brand is likely cheaper. Marriott branded sales centers are also higher productivity.
It is possible that VAC will renegotiate the agreements so they can utilize all the brands how they want. They may build out new Westin and Sheraton properties under such an agreement.
 

bizaro86

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It is possible that VAC will renegotiate the agreements so they can utilize all the brands how they want. They may build out new Westin and Sheraton properties under such an agreement.

Absolutely its possible. I just don't see any reason why Marriott International would give them something extra in their agreement without getting something back. Maybe they're all still operating under the friends and family deal, but if I was a shareholder of just one of the companies that isn't how I would feel about it...
 

mjm1

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All,

I just started a thread in the Marriott forum -- I believe it is relevant for us as well -- I hope you find it useful?

Best,

Greg

I just saw this comment from the CEO included in the VAC quarterly update:

“Looking ahead to 2020, we have begun focusing on product enhancements for the various brands. Specifically, we are working hard to develop an integrated product form that can be leveraged across the Marriott Western and Sheridan brands enhancing the overall value proposition for our owners and customers. It will take time to finalize and roll out this new product for. However, we are very excited about the potential it will provide and we look forward to updating you in the future as this work evolves.”

So, a program is in the works. Of course no details are available at this time, so we will have to wait until some time in 2020.

Best regards.

Mike
 

DannyTS

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I just saw this comment from the CEO included in the VAC quarterly update:

“Looking ahead to 2020, we have begun focusing on product enhancements for the various brands. Specifically, we are working hard to develop an integrated product form that can be leveraged across the Marriott Western and Sheridan brands enhancing the overall value proposition for our owners and customers. It will take time to finalize and roll out this new product for. However, we are very excited about the potential it will provide and we look forward to updating you in the future as this work evolves.”

So, a program is in the works. Of course no details are available at this time, so we will have to wait until some time in 2020.

Best regards.

Mike
We always though this would be inevitable but of course, the devil will be in the details.
 

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Interesting, regarding Buy Backs and Vistana ...
"Around 40% of our legacy MVC owners are still weeks owners, ergo 60% of the legacy MVC owners are points owners. Now keep in mind, since 2010, we've been selling nothing but points. So over time, you would expect that percentage to shift. As -- the exit program, as you've mentioned, people that have owned the product for 10, 15, 20 years, whatever it is, and for whatever reason, because of a life event has decided that they don't want to own it anymore and we buy it back.
And then that happens, then we take that inventory and we put it into our Florida-based land trust, and then we turn around and sell them as points. So just doing that cadence, the percentage will continue to drop over time. When that -- what that number finally becomes and all that is hard to imagine. I would point out also that in the Vistana businesses, they had a very, very modest buyback program, and we've begun to amp that up, as you might imagine."
 

pacman777

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Main challenge for Marriott to replicate this with Vistana is that most of the Vistana timeshares don’t have ROFR. Thankfully WKV does NOT!
 

dioxide45

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We always though this would be inevitable but of course, the devil will be in the details.
Ideally it would be some kind of system where VSE owners can enroll their weeks (for a fee probably) and use their week, StarOptions (unless they own resale voluntary) or DC points. Thus also enrolled or DC point owners could book in to VIstana. Worst case would be that they would provide a cross booking benefit at n months in advance only to those that buy something new from the developer (perhaps Flex or DC).
 

SteelerGal

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Interesting, regarding Buy Backs and Vistana ...
"Around 40% of our legacy MVC owners are still weeks owners, ergo 60% of the legacy MVC owners are points owners. Now keep in mind, since 2010, we've been selling nothing but points. So over time, you would expect that percentage to shift. As -- the exit program, as you've mentioned, people that have owned the product for 10, 15, 20 years, whatever it is, and for whatever reason, because of a life event has decided that they don't want to own it anymore and we buy it back.
And then that happens, then we take that inventory and we put it into our Florida-based land trust, and then we turn around and sell them as points. So just doing that cadence, the percentage will continue to drop over time. When that -- what that number finally becomes and all that is hard to imagine. I would point out also that in the Vistana businesses, they had a very, very modest buyback program, and we've begun to amp that up, as you might imagine."
I see that they will push Flex now. I bet Flex ownership is less than 20%.
 

SteelerGal

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I don’t understand why Vistana made the CA properties non-mandatory. Does anyone know?
 
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