Marriott/Vistana overlay

[mjm1]

Over on the Vistana board, I did suggest that if people were on the fence about buying a Starwood week, this might tip the decision for someone to buy one. Personally, I took the gamble and bought a Sheraton Desert Oasis over the summer, hoping it would become eligible for enrollment, but also knowing I could use it personally for March when we go to Peoria for spring training. I don't know if it will be eligible, but it was very inexpensive to acquire.

A cautionary note: Starwood's system is already very complicated and it is not going to be simple to integrate the two. I don't envy the Marriott team tasked with coming up with an equitable overlay that is also enticing to the Vistana owner. There are already winners and losers with StarOptions and this will create more.

Best,

Greg

Greg, I like your thinking on this. We did something similar. We decided to buy another Premium 1BR at WKV, since we love the resort and get 81k SO’s. A little larger up front cost, but it’s a resort we can see using, trading within SVN, or renting. And if MVC does create an overlay system and we can enroll it then all the better. So, we didn’t see it as much of a risk, since we will use it one way or the other.

I agree that some people should consider something similar. Especially if they will use it regardless of what MVC does.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[chemteach]

Ot will be interesting to see how they allocate to Caribbean owners (St. John's, Harborside). Marriott short shifted MVC Caribbean owners when they did their allocations, supposedly based on actuarial tables rather than related to the rental rates that they were booking the unit at on Marriott.com. I wonder if Harborside and St. John's owners will get similar allocations as Aruba, St. Thomas and St. lotts owners. Integrating the two systems without ticking off either set of owners will be interesting for sure.

This is an interesting point, because Harborside and St. John are probably the most difficult places to get for winter weeks (and maybe even summer weeks). Princeville is much easier to get into than the Maui Westins, but from my experience, Maui is still easier to reserve than Harborside or St. John...

 

[alwysonvac]

Thanks for sharing.

Keeping my fingers cross that the offer to enroll will be available to all owners. I was thinking of selling one of my two Vistana weeks since I only want to book a Vistana stay every 2 to 3 years. But I’ll definitely hold off for now if Marriott access is coming .

NOTE: The initial 2010 enrollment offer to Marriott owners into their new program had different buy-in levels based on the source of purchase.

From the old 2010 thread (link)

Weeks Purchased From Marriott or through an approved broker
- Enroll 1 Week $595
- Enroll 2 or more weeks Only $695

Weeks Purchased From Third Party*
- Enroll 1 Week $1,495
- Enroll 2 or more weeks Only $1,995​

 

[alwysonvac]

Just thinking out loud

As a Vistana owner today, I have
- Annual club dues (aka SVN Fee) that cover my II membership
- Priority booking window at my home resort (12 months before check-in)
- Access to any Vistana resort at 8 months before checkin for any number of nights, in any size unit, check-in any day of the week.
- Banking (up to 2 years) and Borrowing (after prepaying MF)
- Limited Additional Fees: Banking Fee, Cancellation Fee, Housekeeping Fees
- No reservation fees


What could we see with this new option...

(1) Annual Club Dues
I'm assuming there will be an annual cost associated with any new enrollment offer. I'm also assuming it would replace the SVN Fee.
NOTE: The annual Marriott DC Club Dues when it was first announced in 2010 was $165 and $199. Today it ranges from $205, $245 and $270 depending on status level.

From the Marriott DC FAQs sticky thread (link)

~~ Other DC Costs ~~
- All Members must pay the annual Club Dues fee which is based on the number of DC Points that a Trust Member owns, or, for which an Exchange Member is eligible through all Enrolled Weeks, or, a combination of both. Effective with the 2019 invoices the fees are:

• $205 Owners and Select Members
• $245 Executive and Presidential Members
• $270 Chairman's Club Members

(Historically at the DC introduction on 6/20/10 these fees ranged between $165 and $199.)

• The Club Dues fee covers a corporate membership in Interval International's external exchange system, as well as most Marriott and II administration and transaction fees for DC Trust and DC Exchange Members.
• The Club Dues fee for DC Trust Members is included as a component of the annual MF's invoice, with a payment due date of December 1.
• The Club Dues fee for DC Exchange/Enrolled Members is invoiced separately from the Weeks MF's bills, with a payment due date of December 10.

- DC Trust Members must also pay annual Maintenance Fees on a per-BI basis (which, as in the MVC Weeks system, correlate to an Operating Budget and are subject to annual adjustments.) The 2016 MF's are $131.80 per Beneficial Interest (250 Points @ $0.5272 per point.)
- DC Exchange Members must also pay annual Maintenance Fees for the underlying Week(s) which have been enrolled.

(2) Additional Fees
I didn't see any other DC fees mentioned. Hopefully that's the case with this new offer

(3) Tiered reservation windows based on status levels
Today, Higher DC status tiers can reserve 1 night or more, three months earlier than the two lowest DC status tiers. Higher DC status tiers can reserve 7 nights or more, one months earlier than the lowest DC status tier (w/o the minimum additional Points premium).

Thankfully the other systems I have, provide all members with equal reservation access - Vistana, HGVC, Disney (recently sold) and WorldMark. This was one of the reasons I sold my FSRC Aviara.
Just my two cents...This is the one thing I've always dislike about the Marriott system. I don't want to become a mega owner and/or renter just to gain access to the reservation window earlier.

From the Marriott DC FAQs sticky thread (link)
Membership status tiers determine various usage rules and options. See this "Benefits At A Glance" chart for a brief synopsis of some of those variances - https://www.my-vacationclub.com/en-us/owners/ownershiplevels/pdfs/orl_benefits.pdf

The deadline to convert Enrolled Week(s) to DC Points varies based on status:

• Owners, Select and Executive Members may elect conversion on or before September 30 of the year prior to the Use Year
• Presidential and Chairman's Club Members may elect conversion on or before October 31 of the year prior to the Use Year.

Once converted to DC Points, Weeks cannot be reverted back.

Conversions of lock-off units to DC Points require the whole unit to be converted as a single Week. In other words, lock-off units cannot be split such that each portion converts to a separate amount of DC Points; or, split such that one portion may be used in the Weeks system and the other in the Points system.

Every-Other-Year (EOY) Weeks may be enrolled, and converted to DC Points for their year of use. Such DC Points will have the same Use Year as if the Week is being used, but banking and borrowing may be elected to change DC Points usage to the off-year. EOY Weeks Owners must pay the Club Dues fee on an annual basis (not just in the year of use.)

Banking - Points may be banked from their original Use Year to a usage period immediately following; the usage period and election deadlines are based on status:

• Owners and Select Members may bank Points to the next Use Year; the election deadline is six months prior to the end of the original Use Year
• Executive Members may bank Points to the next Use Year; the election deadline is four months prior to the end of the original Use Year
• Presidential Members may bank Points to the next 18-months usage period; the election deadline is four months prior to the end of the original Use Year
• Chairman's Club Members may bank Points to the next 24-months usage period; the election deadline is four months prior to the end of the original Use Year.

Once banked, such Points cannot be further banked, transferred, or borrowed back into their original Use Year. Banked Points will expire if they are not used prior to the end of the usage period to which they were banked. (*See "Waitlist Requests" and "Cancellations" below.)

Borrowing - Points may be borrowed from their current Use Year to the one immediately preceding. The election may be made anytime (according to the MVCD Exchange Procedures document on my-vacationclub.com,)"... up to twenty-five (25) months prior to the first day of such Use Year. Borrowed Exchange Points may be used to make reservations for Use Periods that occur during the Use Year for which the Member is currently entitled to make reservations." Borrowed Points will expire if they are not used prior to the end of the Use Year from which they were borrowed. Once borrowed, such Points cannot be further borrowed or transferred. (*See "Waitlist Requests" and "Cancellations" below.)

For example, Points from a 1/1-12/31/15 Use Year may be borrowed for usage during the preceding 1/1-12/31/14 Use Year. The election to borrow may be made anytime on or after 12/1/12, which allows booking (by eligible Members) at the earliest 13-months Reservation Window for a 1/1/14 check-in date.

Waitlist Requests - If a desired interval is not available Members may place Waitlist Request(s) providing that the Member has the required DC Points in his/her account for the interval(s) and providing that the applicable Reservation Window(s) are in effect.

• Marriott may cancel any pending Waitlist Request(s) if any dues or fees are more than ten days delinquent.
• Marriott may limit the number of Waitlist Request(s) that will be accepted for any certain interval.
• Confirmed Waitlist Request(s) may be cancelled within 48-hours of the Member being notified of the confirmation.

*Borrowed Points may be used for a Waitlist Request; in the event that the request is not confirmed, such Points will be returned to the Use Year from which they were borrowed. See this TUG thread: DC Waitlist and Borrowed Points [Marriott koolina points question]

Cancellations - The basic cancellation policy is that a DC Points reservation cancelled at least 61-days prior to the check-in date will result in the Points being returned to the Member's Account with full original usage rights. Cancellations within 60-days of check-in will result in the Points being placed into a Holding Account that stipulates restricted usage. Refer to Owner Services or the TUG forums for cancellation rules pertaining to something other than a basic cancelled reservation.

*MVW has clarified for TUG the rules related to cancelling reservations booked using Banked Points, as follows. See this post and others in the same thread.

• "Reservations cancelled 61 days or more prior to the check-in date are returned to the Owner’s account and may be used again prior to the (banked) expiration date. However, in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, the Points required as the premium for the reservation will be returned to the Owner’s Holding Account and subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts."
• "If the owner cancels a reservation from 60 to 1 days prior to the check-in, the Points will be returned in to the Owner’s Holding Account but they would still have until the (banked) expiration date to use them, and the Points used for the premium for an Advance Priority Reservation will be forfeited."

*See this TUG thread for the complete rules related to cancelling a reservation using Borrowed Points: Use Year for Borrowed Points After Cancellation of Reservation Paraphrased:

• If a reservation is cancelled at least sixty-one (61) days prior to the first day of such confirmed Use Period, such cancellation will result in unrestricted restoration of the related Exchange Points to the Member for further use during that Use Year, or, if borrowed Exchange Points, for use prior to the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed. However, in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, the premium Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation will be restored to the Member’s Holding Account.
• If a reservation is cancelled within sixty (60) days, the Points, including borrowed Exchange Points, will be returned to the Member’s Holding Account; however, in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, the premium Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation will not be restored and will be forfeited by the Member. Borrowed Exchange Points in a Member’s Holding Account expire at the end of the Use Year from which such Exchange Points were borrowed.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Just thinking out loud

Just my two cents...This is the one thing I've always dislike about the Marriott system. I don't want to become a mega owner and/or renter just to gain access to the reservation window earlier.

​

Like you, one of the reasons we selected WKORV over MOC was that we didn't want to be compelled to buy an extra week just to gain access to earlier reservations (lower capital buy-in; lower MF burden). Plus it had the flexibility of the SO system in addition to II included; MOC only trades in II, unless one pays extra to enroll the week.

So hypothetically if one enrolls a Vistana week into Marriott points they pay:

1) Enrollment fee
2) Annual Club Fee (would replace SVN club fee?)
3) MF for Week (as before)
4) MF on the enrollment of that week (?) or is that for additional DC points beyond the week?

We own mandatory so want to make sure that doesn't go away with enrollment.

 

[mjm1]

Like you, one of the reasons we selected WKORV over MOC was that we didn't want to be compelled to buy an extra week just to gain access to earlier reservations (lower capital buy-in; lower MF burden). Plus it had the flexibility of the SO system in addition to II included; MOC only trades in II, unless one pays extra to enroll the week.

So hypothetically if one enrolls a Vistana week into Marriott points they pay:

1) Enrollment fee
2) Annual Club Fee (would replace SVN club fee?)
3) MF for Week (as before)
4) MF on the enrollment of that week (?) or is that for additional DC points beyond the week?

We own mandatory so want to make sure that doesn't go away with enrollment.

There is the annual club fee, which is based on the number of points you own in the system (using the level- Chairman, President, Executive, etc). It is hard to say at this point if the club fee would cover the SVN fee, but my current thought is that it wouldn’t. However, there are no other maintenance fees in addition to what you currently have unless you buy more points. I doubt that they would or could remove the mandatory status of a unit as your use within the SVN system would remain the same. An overlay system would not change anything within Vistana, it would only be an additional feature available to those who chose to enroll in the DC program.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[CalGalTraveler]

That's good to know. Hopefully Marriott won't get greedy.

I am sure that once they announce, TUG will be lit up with questions on whether the additional cost to enroll will be worth it given alternatives (II, getaways, rental, TUG exchange, or stay down the block at Vistana or HGVC).

However I do like the idea of staying for less than a full week which you can't get with renting, II or getaways and the ease of making reservations. Biggest competitor to enrollment will be the whether there are unique locations, perks, or features we want compared to VSN and HGVC which we can't access today for free with existing ownerships and MF.

 

[mjm1]

I agree. We love our Marriott resorts and those we can use DC to trade into, and we love our Vistana resorts and those we have used SO’s to trade into. We will keep using our Vistana resorts as we do now, but if the enrollment cost is reasonable (similar to what MVC first charged to enroll weeks) we would enroll our Vistana weeks just so we have even more flexibility.

As GregT likes to say, fun stuff!

Best regards.

Mike

 

[DannyTS]

Just thinking out loud

As a Vistana owner today, I have
- Annual club dues (aka SVN Fee) that cover my II membership
- Priority booking window at my home resort (12 months before check-in)
- Access to any Vistana resort at 8 months before checkin for any number of nights, in any size unit, check-in any day of the week.
- Banking (up to 2 years) and Borrowing (after prepaying MF)
- Limited Additional Fees: Banking Fee, Cancellation Fee, Housekeeping Fees
- No reservation fees


What could we see with this new option...

(1) Annual Club Dues
I'm assuming there will be an annual cost associated with any new enrollment offer. I'm also assuming it would replace the SVN Fee.
NOTE: The annual Marriott DC Club Dues when it was first announced in 2010 was $165 and $199. Today it ranges from $205, $245 and $270 depending on status level.

From the Marriott DC FAQs sticky thread (link)

​

(2) Additional Fees
I didn't see any other DC fees mentioned. Hopefully that's the case with this new offer

(3) Tiered reservation windows based on status levels
Today, Higher DC status tiers can reserve 1 night or more, three months earlier than the two lowest DC status tiers. Higher DC status tiers can reserve 7 nights or more, one months earlier than the lowest DC status tier (w/o the minimum additional Points premium).

Thankfully the other systems I have, provide all members with equal reservation access - Vistana, HGVC, Disney (recently sold) and WorldMark. This was one of the reasons I sold my FSRC Aviara.
Just my two cents...This is the one thing I've always dislike about the Marriott system. I don't want to become a mega owner and/or renter just to gain access to the reservation window earlier.

From the Marriott DC FAQs sticky thread (link)
Membership status tiers determine various usage rules and options. See this "Benefits At A Glance" chart for a brief synopsis of some of those variances - https://www.my-vacationclub.com/en-us/owners/ownershiplevels/pdfs/orl_benefits.pdf
​

Let's not forget that an integrated product may mean less interval trading

i pay a VSN fee for my mandatory contract, an Interval annual fee for my voluntary contracts, platinum membership, exchange fees and possible upgrades. Since they all are now under the same roof, it is hard for me to see, even in the best case scenario, that i would not pay at least an equivalent amount of money if the Vistana and Marriott resale owners are to be invited to the integrated program.

 

[dsmrp]

Greg, I like your thinking on this. We did something similar. We decided to buy another Premium 1BR at WKV, since we love the resort and get 81k SO’s. A little larger up front cost, but it’s a resort we can see using, trading within SVN, or renting. And if MVC does create an overlay system and we can enroll it then all the better. So, we didn’t see it as much of a risk, since we will use it one way or the other.

I agree that some people should consider something similar. Especially if they will use it regardless of what MVC does.

Best regards.

Mike

Yup we did something similar to both Greg and Mike. Except we bought Hyatt cause prices dropped, ROFR waived left and right, Hyatt system has some unique locations, and in worse case scenario, we'd mostly use where we bought. Probably a bigger gamble than buying Kierland. But it'll take a while before Marriott tries to integrate HRC.

Sandra

 

[Pocky87]

Did any one see the latest membership directory on Bonvoy status? And know what it means?
Are they saying that all eligible select and executive level members are going to be Titanium members as well?

 

[VacationForever]

Did any one see the latest membership directory on Bonvoy status? And know what it means?
Are they saying that all eligible select and executive level members are going to be Titanium members as well?

Is it out on the web somewhere? Please send link.

This is still the same one as before on MVC site.
https://www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/owners/Owner-Benefit-Level.pdf

 

[bazzap]

Did any one see the latest membership directory on Bonvoy status? And know what it means?
Are they saying that all eligible select and executive level members are going to be Titanium members as well?

I am not sure if the updated chart has been formally published yet, but I believe select and executive level members may get Platinum level not Titanium level?

 

[BigMac]

Just listened to the webcast of MVC's quarterly results. No mention of Los Suenos. Only mentioned the Westin St Johns reopening and San Francisco Pulse at the end of the 2nd Quarter. Talked about the VRI Europe sale. Did not see any imminent other sales or acquisitions. Welk Resorts and Shell Resorts left II and went to RCI. Said there was "softness" in Mexico because of the recent drug violence. Plan on having an Investor Day in Orlando by the end of the year.

Separately got this e-mail from Newport Coast sales.

You are invited to embark on a journey of discovery during an exciting upcoming Owner event on Saturday 3/9 or Sunday 3/10 at: The Sheraton La Jolla Hotel!

Join us for this exclusive 120-minute presentation as we explore the expanded Owner benefit levels and enhancements, as well as review the flexible options available through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations® Program, including:

• extended reservations windows,
• improved borrowing rules,
• extended banking and election deadlines

There are so many exciting reasons to come in and hear how your ownership benefits have been improved over the last few months, including:

• the launching of the Pulse Collection,
• access to over 2,000 private vacation homes through Destination Escapes,
• And our merger with Westin Vacations, giving you access to 45 new properties!

As a thank you for attending, we would like to give you a special gift! You can select from:

40,000 Marriott Reward Points or $200 American Express Gift Card!

Seating is limited so schedule your presentation today! The following dates and times are still available:

Saturday 3/9 at : 10am, 1pm or 4pm or Sunday 3/10 at : 10am 1pm or 4pm Just a friendly reminder, if you are married or living with a partner, it is required that you and your spouse/partner attend the presentation. It is important for you both to have the opportunity to hear about the enhancements, ask questions, and gain more insight into your ownership benefits.

 

[Pocky87]

Is this the same as the members site of MVC worldwide? I saw this within the members site after login, where there is a bonvoy option

 

[VacationForever]

Is this the same as the members site of MVC worldwide? I saw this within the members site after login, where there is a bonvoy option

It is confusing verbiage but I read it that the status of Select and Executive remains as Bonvoy Platinum.

 

[VacationForever]

• And our merger with Westin Vacations, giving you access to 45 new properties!

This statement is interesting, which means that MVC DC owners will have access to 45 new properties in the Vistana system.

 

[Pocky87]

It is confusing verbiage but I read it that the status of Select and Executive remains as Bonvoy Platinum.

So i called MVCAP for clarification, and it seem that they are doing the upgrade for existing eligible members including select and executive level

 

[Fasttr]

This statement is interesting, which means that MVC DC owners will have access to 45 new properties in the Vistana system.

Could also just mean we have access via conversion to Bonvoy points and booking that way. Or booking via the Explorer Collection at a not so good conversion.

 

[VacationForever]

Could also just mean we have access via conversion to Bonvoy points and booking that way.

Possibly...

 

[rickandcindy23]

Being an owner of many non-enrolled Vistana weeks, I am very concerned that we will be left in the cold. After all, we did buy resale, and we didn't pay much for any of our weeks. But can they end up being worth even less than they are now, which is zero? HA!

 

[farsighted99]

Went to an owner's update a couple of days ago at WSJ.

Sounds like the Marriott/Vistana combo thing is a done deal. Probably by the end of the year.

Was told there were 80 Marriott properties we could exchange into.

 

[Sicnarf]

Anyone heard if MVCI going to align the Elite Tiers as well? Right now, Vistana 5*Elite seems to map to MVCI Executive (?) instead of Presidential or Ambassador. As a 5*Elite I only got BonVoy Platinum whereas MVCI Presidential or Ambassador got BonVoy Titanium or Ambassador Elite.

 

[DannyTS]

Went to an owner's update a couple of days ago at WSJ.

Sounds like the Marriott/Vistana combo thing is a done deal. Probably by the end of the year.

Was told there were 80 Marriott properties we could exchange into.

I guess no hint about retail/resale and resale mandatory/voluntary

 

[vacationtime1]

Went to an owner's update a couple of days ago at WSJ.

Sounds like the Marriott/Vistana combo thing is a done deal. Probably by the end of the year.

Was told there were 80 Marriott properties we could exchange into.

Were the salesman's lips moving when he said that?

I assume there was nothing in writing.