Still the happiest place on earth ... not in my experience.

[joestein]

….

 

[presley]

….

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[bbodb1]

….

----

 

[Goofy6294]

Just ran across this conversation in the weekly newsletter. I'm a huge fan of pretty much all things Disney, especially WDW since my first trip twenty years ago. We typically travel as a group of 5 or 6 these days with the kids, so on-site stays are pretty much out of the question for us (we love Wyndham Bonnet Creek). Even so, getting to the parks early to hit the high-demand attractions, taking a break at lunch or visiting the high-capacity rides, and then returning late in the evening is always a good strategy for reducing your chances of spending the day in lines. Typically, if the wait for an attraction is greater than 20 minutes, we won't go on it.

The measuring stick that I use for valuing WDW tickets is our local amusement park. It's about $55 for a day ticket that covers the water park and a few small coasters and other amusement rides. The highest priced day ticket to the Magic Kingdom at WDW is about $138. Considering the quality and quantity of attractions, I consider both of these tickets to be equal in value. And if your WDW trip is multi-day, your cost per day can easily drop to the $60-$70/day range depending on your ticket choices. That makes it a no-brainer for me.

 

[bizaro86]

What Disney really needs to do is to build more high capacity, smaller footprint attractions, to “soak up” some of the extra people. Attendance has grown by 20% over the past 10 years. They’ve freshened things up by replacing and changing attractions, but they haven’t increased total ride capacity anywhere near as much as attendance.

Toy Story Land is a great example. On the surface, it looks like two brand new rides (additional capacity), but only one of those is high capacity (Slinky Dog Dash), the new land takes a TON of space, and they actually closed quite a few things (Back Lot Tour, Lights Motors Action and more) to make room for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually a net loss in total ride capacity.

I've often wondered if there would be a way to add more capacity to existing rides. Add a second loop to Buzz, more theatres to Star Tours, etc. While that would cost money without adding any new rides, they are probably to the point where straight up capacity adds would pay off.

 

[TravelTime]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Bummer, poster removed his post. I wonder what he said.

 

[MichaelColey]

I've often wondered if there would be a way to add more capacity to existing rides. Add a second loop to Buzz, more theatres to Star Tours, etc. While that would cost money without adding any new rides, they are probably to the point where straight up capacity adds would pay off.

They can and have done that, but it only makes sense with certain rides. They added an extra track to Toy Story Mania sometime within the past few years.

Buzz would be more difficult, but a few attractions like Star Tours, Flight of Passage, Soarin', Space Mountain, Tower of Terror, and Mission Space have multiple tracks. Theoretically, some of those could be expanded by adding even more tracks/rooms.

For most of their attractions, they get high capacity by having fast, frequent loading. For instance, Figment is able to handle about 2000 people per hour because a new set of ride vehicles leaves about every 60 seconds. Although the ride lasts 6 minutes, you're only in each section for a minute. It also has a relatively small footprint. These are the types of rides I think they should be including (along with the headliner rides) in the new or reimagined lands. If they can give people more things to ride, it'll help ease the lines everywhere.

 

[TravelTime]

Just ran across this conversation in the weekly newsletter. I'm a huge fan of pretty much all things Disney, especially WDW since my first trip twenty years ago. We typically travel as a group of 5 or 6 these days with the kids, so on-site stays are pretty much out of the question for us (we love Wyndham Bonnet Creek). Even so, getting to the parks early to hit the high-demand attractions, taking a break at lunch or visiting the high-capacity rides, and then returning late in the evening is always a good strategy for reducing your chances of spending the day in lines. Typically, if the wait for an attraction is greater than 20 minutes, we won't go on it.

The measuring stick that I use for valuing WDW tickets is our local amusement park. It's about $55 for a day ticket that covers the water park and a few small coasters and other amusement rides. The highest priced day ticket to the Magic Kingdom at WDW is about $138. Considering the quality and quantity of attractions, I consider both of these tickets to be equal in value. And if your WDW trip is multi-day, your cost per day can easily drop to the $60-$70/day range depending on your ticket choices. That makes it a no-brainer for me.

Good way to look at it.

 

[MichaelColey]

Food for thought about how much worse things could get:

https://www.themeparktourist.com/features/20190113/36516/turning-point-age-paid-fastpass

 

[Brett]

Food for thought about how much worse things could get:

https://www.themeparktourist.com/features/20190113/36516/turning-point-age-paid-fastpass

Fastpass, Maxpass, 'Premier access', at Disney.
Demand pricing has been copied from the airline industry to entertainment, retail, transportation, and many other places

 

[bnoble]

What Disney really needs to do

All they really need to do is keep cashing checks. Attendance and per-guest spending is up.

 

[MichaelColey]

All they really need to do is keep cashing checks. Attendance and per-guest spending is up.

From a stockholder perspective, perhaps. But if they want more guests to have a more enjoyable visit, which will facilitate more growth, they really need to address total ride capacity. They are definitely masters at extracting maximum money, but are they approaching a point where the growth is unsustainable?

I know I’ve heard stories from many who have plunked down a ton of money for an extended holiday weekend in a Deluxe with full dining (everything WE know not to do), and were extremely disappointed in the experience. These people talk and word gets around.

 

[bnoble]

They don't need to do anything other than what they are doing to grow. That's what "increased attendance and per-guest spending" is.

 

[WVBaker]

Disney, like every other corporation, is in business to "extract" the maximum money it can. It's what the consumer gets in return that matters.

Disney continues to invest in major expansions at all of its theme parks. Disney seems to see the parks, among all it's subsidiaries, as its biggest growth opportunity. Adding new rides not only attracts visitors, but also increases attendance at it's parks. They also understand an overcrowded park can lead to a bad experience.

Many believe that another stand-alone theme park will be coming down the road and Disney is expected to spend as much as $24 billion over the next five years on park expansions. Given that, attendance and parks profits could again double over the next five years.

I wouldn't worry about sustainability.

 

[mdurette]

That is a pro move. Can you still cancel and keep the fast passes?

I have done this in the past - made a room only reservation and then cancelled it about 10 days before arrival. All my FPs stayed.

I use to have a real good "pro move" as you call it. Would book FP+ for people on my MDE with tickets linked, but not going. I would then switch them over with Change Party to us after our 3 were used. Tried it last April - didn't work, they must have closed that loop hole up.

We pretty much FP are entire day in the parks. But, I will admit as the FP planner, my face is in my phone ALL DAY doing this. It takes away from some of the magic.

For our high demand spring break trip in March. At the 60 day window everything was available and in the morning. I was worried some hot ones would be gone to those booking at 90 days, but they were not.

 

[bnoble]

Many believe that another stand-alone theme park will be coming down the road

I do not expect a new gate in Orlando. The average US vacation is already too short to "do everything" at WDW, and is getting shorter. Adding a gate would only cannibalize what they have. Instead, I expect them to continue to follow the current strategy of increasing capacity of existing parks (New Fantasyland and the Tron coaster in MK, new restaurants and Ratatouille clone in EP, Star Wars and Toy Story in DS, and Pandora in AK).

 

[TravelTime]

Iger stated last year that a new park is inevitable. He indicated China is a good growth market for that. I am hoping DVC2 will include international locations. In places like Asia, I suspect they could easily sell DVC points in a new DVC2 at higher prices than today. Not so sure about Europe though. I think there is so much untapped potential worldwide. Orlando may be saturated, I agree. I think I read the current strategy is to enhance the existing parks.

 

[am1]

I would have built a espn sports park. Not just the wide world of sports but a sports theme park. Maybe they will. Could attract a different crowd then families with young children.

 

[TravelTime]

I would have built a espn sports park. Not just the wide world of sports but a sports theme park. Maybe they will. Could attract a different crowd then families with young children.

It would not appeal to me as a minimal sports enthusiast but it is a good idea.

I would like a bunch of Grand hotels all over the world. Right now, they have two - one in Orlando and one in California. I would love it if they had a Grand collection of luxury hotels incorporating the Disney spirit and characters in every location where they have a theme park.

I would also like to see more beach locations with DVCs in the ports of call where the Disney cruises visit. The Bahamas might be a good start for that since they have private islands. Then they could combine short cruises with land stays.

 

[bnoble]

Iger stated last year that a new park is inevitable. He indicated China is a good growth market for that.

I have no problem believing that; that's why I qualified that I don't expect a new gate in Orlando. I've been to Shanghai Disneyland; it's a hit, and there is definitely appetite for more in that market, assuming they continue to develop and support a merchant class.

 

[Big Matt]

Years ago they were trying to open a history based park in the Northern Virginia suburbs. I think that's a good idea still and I wouldn't rule out something like that. It would be simple to set up themed lands (old west, revolutionary war, or do it by time period). People originally thought that Epcot was a crazy idea, but it worked.

 

[MichaelColey]

The other thing that struck me on our most recent trip was that the number of separately ticketed events and things that used to be included but now cost extra have skyrocketed.

They’ve had The Halloween and Christmas events for a while, but now there are a lot of other separately ticketed events. I used to always get AAA Parking, but now it’s $50 Premium parking. It used to be fairly easy to do the Candlelight Processional. Now they almost force you to buy a $60+/person dinner package. Parking at the resorts used to be free.

 

[mbh]

It's called Capitalism. When people stop going, prices will come down. Why not raise prices if attendance doesn't go down. No one is forced to go to Disney.

 

[DeeCee]

Wait! Non-expiring tickets will expire in 2030??? I missed that announcement.

(Tried to quote Dee Cee)

Yes. Now they expire in 2030.
How’s that for a change!?
I haven’t been on the boards in awhile. Sorry I missed your post.

Dee

 

[bbodb1]

It's called Capitalism. When people stop going, prices will come down. Why not raise prices if attendance doesn't go down. No one is forced to go to Disney.

It's not that I entirely disagree with this point of view, but I also remember the story of the goose that laid golden eggs and how that ends.....Disney should reflect long and hard on this....