• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Fractionals compared to Timeshares in Wall Street Journal

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-no...e-luxury-homes-11545234333?mod=hp_major_pos23

Rather than owning a multimillion-dollar vacation property they may visit just once or twice a year, some well-heeled nomads are opting to hop among bite-sized pieces of luxury real estate they’ve acquired through fractional ownership and so-called private residence clubs.

A fractional property is deeded real estate that can be sold, gifted or inherited. Residence clubs typically have higher price tags, nicer amenities and far fewer owners than timeshares, but both are structured in much the same way and are subject to the same regulations. “Whether you are buying a Rolls-Royce or a Kia, it has the same seatbelt rules,” explained Howard Nusbaum, president and CEO of the American Resort Development Association, a trade group.

upload_2018-12-26_1-52-1.jpeg
 

Eric B

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
5,869
Reaction score
5,444
Points
499
Resorts Owned
Vacation Village, Wyndham, WorldMark, Vistana, Vidanta, Flora Farms, HGVC Max, and some independents
I’m shocked, o_O, shocked to hear anyone comparing timesharing and fractional ownership. Fractionals are clearly so different...! Just look at the ARDA table of distinctions (they are well known experts in the area and would never take a different side then a consumer).
 

T-Dot-Traveller

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
4,644
Reaction score
3,592
Points
348
Location
Canada
Resorts Owned
Mayan Palace Regency
Taranova
I’m shocked, o_O, shocked ...... Just look at the ARDA table of distinctions (they are well known experts in the area and would never take a different side then a consumer).


LOL - ??
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,745
Reaction score
8,272
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
Hmmm...Perhaps those differences existed 15 years ago when single deeded weeks were the norm and floating points did not exist.

Look at the Ritz Carton Aspen Residence. "Fractional" owners saw the value of their property plummet after Marriott made it available to points users. There is a lawsuit about Marriott diluting the brand. Fractionals are simply longer duration timeshares.

Expensive lipstick on a pig.
 
Last edited:

Eric B

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
5,869
Reaction score
5,444
Points
499
Resorts Owned
Vacation Village, Wyndham, WorldMark, Vistana, Vidanta, Flora Farms, HGVC Max, and some independents
Well 1/52 is a fraction, after all....

Seriously, though, it’s all just puffing on the part of the developer. Some try selling the exclusivity, while some don’t do that as much. Doesn’t change the business model.
 

WalnutBaron

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
2,193
Reaction score
2,585
Points
574
Location
California
Resorts Owned
Hyatt Highlands Inn, Hyatt Pinon Pointe
Well 1/52 is a fraction, after all....

Seriously, though, it’s all just puffing on the part of the developer. Some try selling the exclusivity, while some don’t do that as much. Doesn’t change the business model.
Agreed. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
I could not post the entire article due to TUG rules. The article describes the problem with values plunging and the difficulty of reselling. Here are a few exerpts about resell problems:

And those looking for a return on their investment be warned; listing one-tenth of a ski condo can be as tough as trying to sell one-half of a pair of skis.

But for fractional owners themselves, resales can be a hassle.

“I wouldn’t do it as an investment strategy,” said Mr. Daly, who bought one-eighth of a Timbers-managed condominium in Steamboat Springs in 2008 for $455,000 before deciding to build his own home there in 2017. After several years on the market, the fractional condo at One Steamboat Place sold for $375,000 in August.

In 2006, Keith Balter, a 60-year-old retired stock trader based in Greenwich, Conn., bought one-twelfth of a two-bedroom suite at New York’s St. Regis hotel for $500,000 with 28 guaranteed days per year. But since that time, the in-house sales office for the St. Regis residence club closed, ownership of the hotel changed hands and the value of Mr. Balter’s fractional suite—for which he pays $25,400 in annual common charges—plummeted. In the past two years, fractional interests in two-bedroom club suites have sold for between $230,000 and $350,000.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
I think of the “timeshare” market like this:

Vacation clubs: floating units and points systems
Week timeshares: 1/52 of one unit in a development
Fractionals: 1/12 of one unit in a development (generally 1/12 but varies)
Condos: 1 unit in a development (not a timeshare but many similarities)
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Hmmm...Perhaps those differences existed 15 years ago when single deeded weeks were the norm and floating points did not exist.

Look at the Ritz Carton Aspen Residence. "Fractional" owners saw the value of their property plummet after Marriott made it available to points users. There is a lawsuit about Marriott diluting the brand. Fractionals are simply longer duration timeshares.

Expensive lipstick on a pig.

All fractionals have these problems. The article mentioned Timbers has lost value too. I am a member of Elite Alliance and it has many fractionals listed that I can purchase as a getaway or exchange for a lot less than the value of my Four Seasons Aviara week. I assume that the fractionals in Elite Alliance have lost value too or are possibly still unsold and they are getting developer listings. For example, Elite Alliance is flooded with Old Greenwood near Lake Tahoe. I suspect these could be developer listings because there are so many every month. Old Greenwood looks gorgeous and it surprises me there is so much availability. So I do not think the plunge in value has to do with Marriott purchasing the Ritz Carlton. I suspect Marriott made it available as points because there is excess availability and they must control the unsold inventory. Otherwise, how could Marriott make it available as points? The values appear to decline for fractionals just like for timeshares.
 

klpca

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
8,273
Reaction score
7,280
Points
749
Location
CA
Resorts Owned
SDO, Quarter House, Seapointe, Coronado Beach, Carlsbad Inn, Worldmark
I could not post the entire article due to TUG rules. The article describes the problem with values plunging and the difficulty of reselling. Here are a few exerpts about resell problems:

And those looking for a return on their investment be warned; listing one-tenth of a ski condo can be as tough as trying to sell one-half of a pair of skis.

But for fractional owners themselves, resales can be a hassle.

“I wouldn’t do it as an investment strategy,” said Mr. Daly, who bought one-eighth of a Timbers-managed condominium in Steamboat Springs in 2008 for $455,000 before deciding to build his own home there in 2017. After several years on the market, the fractional condo at One Steamboat Place sold for $375,000 in August.

In 2006, Keith Balter, a 60-year-old retired stock trader based in Greenwich, Conn., bought one-twelfth of a two-bedroom suite at New York’s St. Regis hotel for $500,000 with 28 guaranteed days per year. But since that time, the in-house sales office for the St. Regis residence club closed, ownership of the hotel changed hands and the value of Mr. Balter’s fractional suite—for which he pays $25,400 in annual common charges—plummeted. In the past two years, fractional interests in two-bedroom club suites have sold for between $230,000 and $350,000.
Bought at the top of the market, fwiw. (2006 guy)

About that same timeframe we looked at buying into a fractional development on the BI. The numbers just didn't pencil out so ultimately we passed. I can't remember what the cost was - maybe mid 300's for a one sixth share. So glad that we passed. There was no real view, and that was a big drawback for us at that price point, but that hesitation kept us from making an expensive mistake.
 

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
9,455
Reaction score
4,662
Points
649
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Don't get me wrong. I would never buy a fractional but I have a friend who has owned one in Snowmass, CO for over 10 years, uses it multiple times every year and loves it. To each his own I guess...

George
 

LannyPC

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
4,777
Reaction score
2,406
Points
448
Location
British Columbia
From personal observation:

A glaring disadvantage of fractionals is that you are paying MFs on multiple weeks which may also make it harder to sell/unload down the future.

OTOH, one advantage of fractionals is that you usually pay less in MFs on a per-week basis. Therefore, if you want to rent out a week or more, it is easier to recover, and maybe even exceed, your MFs.
 

slip

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
11,138
Reaction score
14,568
Points
999
Location
U'alapue/Kaunakakai, Hawaii
Resorts Owned
Pono Kai, 20 wks; Maui Schooner, 1.5 wks; 1 week Ke Nani Kai; WaveCrest Condo, Molokai, HI
Fractionals are usually much cheaper per week than timeshares as far as maintenance fees go. Many will not let you rent them though but like timeshares they are all different. They definitely have an appeal like timeshares and if the situation is right they can work really well.

We looked into them about eight years ago. Buy in was high but not too bad. Everything else just didn’t work for us so we scratched the idea.
 

VacationForever

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
16,197
Reaction score
10,607
Points
1,048
Location
Somewhere Out There
I think of the “timeshare” market like this:

Vacation clubs: floating units and points systems
Week timeshares: 1/52 of one unit in a development
Fractionals: 1/12 of one unit in a development (generally 1/12 but varies)
Condos: 1 unit in a development (not a timeshare but many similarities)
We came across fractionals which were marketed as 13 weeks ownership. The biggest issue with one we looked at was that the 13 weeks were spreadout throughout the year. Their target was to NYers to get away from NY a week in a month.
 
Last edited:

vikingsholm

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
412
Reaction score
480
Points
273
Buying a 1/4 fractional at the Grand Residence Club in South Lake Tahoe is one of the best things we've ever done.

We've owned it about ten years now, likely to hold it another 10-20. We bought resale, so didn't pay the full developer price by any means. Still, it has gone down in price since we bought it. But the real benefit came from a decision that Marriott made regarding DC points, which I'll describe shortly. As mentioned above though, the per week HOA cost is generally lower than similar individual weeks purchases or equivalent points purchases at other Marriott properties.

The nice thing is that we have a deeded unit at the Grand Residence, which we purchased because we liked the location and view from that room. We know years in advance what weeks are assigned to us (one per month, plus a 13th week each year) that we will be able to use, rent, trade, or convert to DC points. And the same unit will always be waiting for us, unless we trade in via trades or points to the Grand Residence to get a different room. The occupy/use, rental days, and DC conversions (IIRC - so far we've only converted entire weeks to DC points so I may be wrong about this) can be split down to the day, while the trades are for entire weeks only.

The beauty of it was that they allowed us as legacy owners to buy into the DC points system at the standard multiple weeks buy-in price of $1,995. That covered all 13 weeks per year of our one bedroom unit. So something like 35-40,000 DC points per year are available if we converted them all. For an annual fee of about $270 currently to use points or trade in II.

We typically mix usage of prime weeks, some rentals, conversion of several weeks to DC points, and some trades every year with our fractional weeks. The DC points have allowed us to get some great reservations at Marriott and Ritz places that you rarely see available as II trades. Lots of times we'll do 5 or 6 day points stays to avoid the costly full weekend point fees, so these stretch a long ways. We're also able to maximize value because we can stay in off seasons in some places that still have great weather, but require far fewer points in off season stays.

We have several other timeshares that we own as weeks or credits (worldmark) for using and trading in other systems too. Those complement our fractional quite nicely.

So overall, we've managed to create a timeshare ownership plan in retirement that gives us a fantastic portfolio of "second homes" all over the US West, and in the rest of the world through trades and point usage as well. The price is right, the units we trade into are often magnificent, and the amount of work we're required to contribute to clean and maintain them is minimal. The Grand Residence and a week we own at Timber Lodge plus some at Ridge Tahoe make a nice primary timeshare home base for us at Lake Tahoe too.

Timesharing rocks, if you figure out how to make it work best for your needs, and know how to get the bang for the bucks you spend on it. Our fractional is the cornerstone of it all for us as well.
 

jimf41

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
2,600
Reaction score
545
Points
498
Location
Stony Brook, New York
OTOH, one advantage of fractionals is that you usually pay less in MFs on a per-week basis. Therefore, if you want to rent out a week or more, it is easier to recover, and maybe even exceed, your MFs.

Fractionals are usually much cheaper per week than timeshares as far as maintenance fees go.We looked into them about eight years ago. Buy in was high but not too bad. Everything else just didn’t work for us so we scratched the idea.

What fractionals were you referring to, certainly not Hyatt or RC. Those are several thousands more per week than any Marriott TS.
 

slip

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
11,138
Reaction score
14,568
Points
999
Location
U'alapue/Kaunakakai, Hawaii
Resorts Owned
Pono Kai, 20 wks; Maui Schooner, 1.5 wks; 1 week Ke Nani Kai; WaveCrest Condo, Molokai, HI
What fractionals were you referring to, certainly not Hyatt or RC. Those are several thousands more per week than any Marriott TS.

No, I wasn’t looking at any hotel affiliated fractionals. All the ones I looked at on Kauai were substantially cheaper per week that timeshares and some even included a vehicle.
 

Marathoner

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
804
Reaction score
511
Points
203
Location
NYC
The Daly's should have bought resale!
 

LannyPC

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
4,777
Reaction score
2,406
Points
448
Location
British Columbia
What fractionals were you referring to, certainly not Hyatt or RC. Those are several thousands more per week than any Marriott TS.

This was a few years ago and it was just one so maybe this was an anomaly, but it was Compass Point on Grand Cayman Island. I don't have the exact figures but I got a sales rep to show me the suites and the numbers. The MFs per week were a little bit lower than comparable timeshares in the area.
 

geist1223

TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
5,974
Reaction score
5,728
Points
499
Location
Salem Oregon
Resorts Owned
Worldmark 97,000 Credits
DRI Cabo Azul 50,500
Royal Solaris San Jose del Cabo
We bought a Fractional (1/13) that is part of Worldmark in Seaside Oregon. 1 week per season. It is a 3 bedroom with a gorgeous view of Tillamook Head. The Weeks Rotate so no one gets all the Holidays. We got it on sale as they were closing out the sale of the Fractionals. We can use it, rent it out, let family and friends use it and because it is located within a Worldmark Resort we can trade weeks (1 year to 45 days before Checkin) to Worldmark for Points to use elsewhere in the Worldmark System.
 

x3 skier

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
5,266
Reaction score
2,295
Points
649
Location
Ohio and Colorado
Resorts Owned
Steamboat Grand, The West,
Raintree and, formerly, The Allen House
It is what it is.

I own two “fractional” units in Steamboat Springs, a deeded studio unit for 12 weeks (one a month) in the Steamboat Grand and the second, ~1/5 deeded share (6 weeks consecutive in ski season plus a couple of other weeks) in a condo complex. Both are listed in the deeds as timeshares although to some, both are considered fractionals.

I use The Grand facilities (pool, gym, etc.) and leave the unit in the rental pool where it pays for itself. I use the condo unit myself for the ski season six weeks every year.

Either one could be sold for more than I paid when I bought them, The Grand from the developer and the convo share at an Estate Sale.

Fractional or Timesahre, I’m happy.

Cheers
 

DrQ

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
5,818
Reaction score
3,802
Points
648
Location
DFW
Resorts Owned
HICV, Westgate (second cousin, twice removed)
Even though Fractionals seem to market to a more affluent crowd, I would think that they still run the risk of small or independent timeshares, financial mismanagement and bankruptcy.

I confess my ignorance, are there large groups behind the fractionals, or are they mostly independent. If they are independent, what keeps some group from coming in and buy interests and starting to jack up MF?
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
9,745
Reaction score
8,272
Points
498
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC, MVC Vistana
How much do the MF per week run on these Woldmark,Grand, and Marriott fractionals? What is the margin above when renting the unit out?

If you work, and even if you are retired it seems it would be difficult to use all of the weeks consistently over many years -especially during low season so renting during some peak would be mandatory to make viable.

Although I could envision a ski condo during snow season, mud weeks are worthless.
 
Last edited:
Top