Disrupting Resale Timeshare Industry

[Bwolf]

Simple:

CarMax for TS Sales
StubHub for TS Rentals

Secure, accountable, fluid transactions directly with owners without the scam risk

I'm all for this. We have a developer who sells for thousands but resales don't sell or must be giveaways. We have another timeshare that is a bit obscure so a single platform for sales/rentals that generates many looks would be helpful.

 

[tombanjo]

The reason people use Uber or Lyft (disruptors) is because they the provide an easier and cheaper way to hail and pay for transportation of the type Taxi's provide. You fly into an airport in a new city, you whip out your phone and get a cheap, efficient ride for less in a few minutes. Taxis still exist, people still use them, taxi infrastructure still exists, Uber and Lyft might at some point completely replace them. Self driving cars you can rent by the minute might replace private ownership of cars at sometime too, as well as replacing taxis, Uber and Lyft. Technology in this case can significantly change how we do business and live.

To "disrupt" the timeshare industry (which includes several distinct bits), you need an easy, cheaper way of doing those bits. Deeds which are subject to huge amounts of state, local and other law, don't seem to me to be ripe for any type of unified system to take them over. While it would be lovely to have a simple, cheap and unified system to handle deeds, inserting blockchain on top of the existing system, doesn't seem to make sense to me.

I could see rentals - where trust and money in both directions - matter, could benefit from blockchain, however, RCI or II could just implement their own secure payment system on top the existing structure and continue on. Creating a new exchange means getting points deposited for enough properties that people want to rent other properties of. It looks like there already has been some consolidation and the big timeshare companies, who can control how you deposit points, aren't gonna let people go to a new exchange without serious obstacles to leaving.

Same with resales, A unified resale market does not depend on having a new transaction type. It depends on having a market for the resales. Blockchain might be a benefit, but it wont create the demand.

 

[mpizza]

I voted yes, I believe technology will increase our ability to buy, sell, rent and trade timeshare ownerships.

Think Zillow for timeshares - the AVM (automated valuation model) is a service using mathematical modeling combined with a database to provide real estate valuations. Although there are a lot of critics regarding accuracy, most consumers will not purchase or sell a home without researching the Zestimate! I can see how a similar model could easily translate to timeshare ownerships.

Maria

 

[bbodb1]

....To "disrupt" the timeshare industry (which includes several distinct bits), you need an easy, cheaper way of doing those bits. Deeds which are subject to huge amounts of state, local and other law, don't seem to me to be ripe for any type of unified system to take them over. While it would be lovely to have a simple, cheap and unified system to handle deeds, inserting blockchain on top of the existing system, doesn't seem to make sense to me.....

After reading this thread a bit, Tombanjo's point neatly summarizes the point I was thinking about. To 'disrupt' something suggests it is working efficiently - the TS sales and resales markets definitely do NOT work efficiently.

At the same time, if blockchain could improve access to information, then you might be on to something.

 

[SmithOp]

After reading this thread a bit, Tombanjo's point neatly summarizes the point I was thinking about. To 'disrupt' something suggests it is working efficiently - the TS sales and resales markets definitely do NOT work efficiently.

At the same time, if blockchain could improve access to information, then you might be on to something.

We had a saying when I was still working in IT, when all you have is a hammer everything starts to look like a nail.

The resale market is fractured, it needs to be unified before it can be disrupted and improved.

Blockchain meh, just the latest IT buzzword.


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[CalGalTraveler]

Carmax, and Stubhub are successful cases where they organized fractional markets. They actually cost MORE than the disorganized alternative options they displaced. The market pays a premium to offset risk and for a seamless experience.

In the case of Carmax, the purchase is still thousands less than buying from a dealer so the money saving factor exists.

Similar to CarMax people will be attracted to TS resale because the price is significantly lower than developer. The problem today is that resale is the wild west just as used car buying was 15 years ago. TUG is rife with people citing Ebay scammers and rentals gone awry.

The developer market is organized as is the auto dealer market. We bought our first TS from the developer because we were wary of the resale risk. We did not know that honest brokers exist nor how to find them. If there was an equivalent to CarMax for TS we would have happily opted to save thousands even if it cost more than Ebay.

 

[KarenP]

Are you trying to make timesharing like bitcoin? The value being timeshares themselves? Each one worth so many "bits" and no central management/owner? If so, how would you ever figure out what vacation you had?

 

[cali-gal]

Can I just say ditto to CalGalTraveler? I do see a need. There are two timeshares I have in mind for purchase and have been searching TUG, Redweek, and a whole slew of other websites looking for these properties. Of course l am looking for a bargain If I understand correctly, this would be a huge step toward simplifying the process.

 

[mowgli007]

i doubt it's disruption in timeshare industry, a disruption is an alternate way to do things.. i can see a great potential of streamlining the processes of ownership, resell, points allocation using blockchain. Blockchain will allow deed to be transferred almost instantaneously and yes, may disrupt online classified industry involved in resell.

it would be a interesting to develop tech, i can partner with someone in co-founding this startup.

 

[Snazzylass]

I don't see how blockchain is going to help with timeshare resales. If there were a problem with people being sold fake deeds, then yes, blockchain would help. But, I've never heard of that happening.

Possibly, people on TUG would be willing to contribute to creating or publicizing a Multiple Listing Service for timeshares. Would enough TUG members be willing to contribute, so that this is feasible? I don't know. It would be a good question for a survey.

MLS serves a purpose of sharing a broker's listing and properly compensating participating brokers representing buyers.

What about something like TrueCar? I've shopped from my phone on sofa, selected a couple of cars to test drive, purchase. It's a very easy way to see what's currently available for sale.

 

[Snazzylass]

BTW...If you can figure out how to do this, it will be disruptive to resale, but not to the developers.

Making a resale market is similar to how Carmax took a disorganized and risk-laden car resale market and created a more efficient market which further legitimized buying a resale car. The new car market has not gone away. However some new car buyers will now consider resale. Same will happen for timeshares.

Tech alone will not be sufficient to make this happen. This will entail educating the market which will require significant investment.

I hope you can figure this out. Good luck.

Well, from your many posts, I gather you are a fan of Carmax. I believe Circuit City was copying Autonation's original business model. Carmax makes more on used car in the same way that Saturn customers always paid more - closer the MSRP than any other brand.

Manufacturers certifying their used cars was huge. And, as previously posted, True Car seems like a more apt comparison, no?

A ticket to a sporting event is a license. T/S are similar in that they are so uniform, as compared to other types of pre-owned real estate. In general, real estate is considered unique like a piece of art or jewelry, but T/S? Clearly not.

 

[TravelTime]

I do not see the resale market as fractured at all. It seems to work quite efficiently among the reputable providers and educated buyers. The problem is many people do not know the resale market exists and that leads to scamming of the unaware.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I do not see the resale market as fractured at all. It seems to work quite efficiently among the reputable providers and educated buyers. The problem is many people do not know the resale market exists and that leads to scamming of the unaware.

It operates much the same way as used cars did with local listings 15 years ago. It worked fine for a small group of educated buyers who were mechanically inclined and had enough cash to avoid financing. Caveat emptor. P2P sales.

CarMax and others took risk out of the market by guaranteeing the car mechanical, enabling financing to make it affordable, creating showrooms with legitimate transactions (i.e. avoiding scam risk), and educating the market; this legitimized buying a used car and expanded the auto resale market. The same is possible for timeshare resales which would expand the TS resale market.

Of course the developers would love to keep people uneducated and in a fractured market. The car makers probably felt the same way but failed to stop it.

 

[Panina]

I do not see the resale market as fractured at all. It seems to work quite efficiently among the reputable providers and educated buyers. The problem is many people do not know the resale market exists and that leads to scamming of the unaware.

And if everyone knew about resale at some point good inventory wouldn’t be available at the prices they are today. Free would have value, the ones that have value would be higher in price as resale demand would increase and less inventory would be available. If it affects the developers bottom line seriously more restrictions will be put on resale. I doubt the developers would be out of business, And there will always be the buyers who will think buying from the developer is better no matter what they hear.

 

[TravelTime]

I did not realize Carmax changed the used car industry. I have never been in a Carmax showroom. I have the impression Carmax is more expensive that selling or buying a car on the private market. I might be wrong though since I have never gone into Carmax.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I did not realize Carmax changed the used car industry. I have never been in a Carmax showroom. I have the impression Carmax is more expensive that selling or buying a car on the private market. I might be wrong though since I have never gone into Carmax.

Precisely. Carmax and a few of their virtual competitors such as Carvana are more expensive because buyers pay a premium for the ease and risk mitigation in the transaction. However the actual price is still a fraction of what you pay for a new car - hence the savings and value proposition for the buyer.

The value for the seller is that they don't have to spend time and risk dealing with P2P sales and having Craigslist like scammers show up to their doorstep. You go to a Carmax showroom and they will give you a price for your car. Again, not as good as private sale but better than dealer trade-in, or having to spend weekends parking your car in parking lots with signs in the window around town and handling inquiries.

We purchased a car for our DD at Carmax and purchased the 5 year service guarantee. When she moved away to college 2 years later and didn't need the car anymore, we sold it back to Carmax. Although it was significantly less than what we paid, we also received a prorated refund of the service guarantee which made the net price higher than what we could have gotten selling privately. Plus the transaction was fast and easy. We took the car into the showroom and they issued a check right away. We estimated that we did better than leasing a car for 2 years.

The timeshare resale model would be similar and could include a consignment model for the seller where they don't actually take possession but will showroom it for you in their inventory.

 

[chapjim]

Precisely. Carmax and a few of their virtual competitors such as Carvana are more expensive because buyers pay a premium for the ease and risk mitigation in the transaction. However the actual price is still a fraction of what you pay for a new car - hence the savings and value proposition for the buyer.

The value for the seller is that they don't have to spend time and risk dealing with P2P sales and having Craigslist like scammers show up to their doorstep. You go to a Carmax showroom and they will give you a price for your car. Again, not as good as private sale but better than dealer trade-in, or having to spend weekends parking your car in parking lots with signs in the window around town and handling inquiries.

We purchased a car for our DD at Carmax and purchased the 5 year service guarantee. When she moved away to college 2 years later and didn't need the car anymore, we sold it back to Carmax. Although it was significantly less than what we paid, we also received a prorated refund of the service guarantee which made the net price higher than what we could have gotten selling privately. Plus the transaction was fast and easy. We took the car into the showroom and they issued a check right away. We estimated that we did better than leasing a car for 2 years.

The timeshare resale model would be similar and could include a consignment model for the seller where they don't actually take possession but will showroom it for you in their inventory.

I agree that it is an overstatement to say Carmax changed the used car industry. It operates on a different model, that's all. Added a new dimension, yes. Change, no.

Regardless, this is getting off topic. Used care industry comments probably belong in the Lounge.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I agree that it is an overstatement to say Carmax changed the used car industry. It operates on a different model, that's all. Added a new dimension, yes. Change, no.

Regardless, this is getting off topic. Used care industry comments probably belong in the Lounge.

Whether it is considered change or disruptive is irrelevant. The point is that these business models expanded and legitimized the resale market.

If you are not familiar with how businesses innovate, adapting business models and strategies from other industries is a common approach. It is entirely on-point to visualize how a market could evolve by looking at successful business models in other industries. The case of CarMax is not to talk about the used car industry but to apply the model to TS resale market.

 

[bluehende]

I am not impressed with carmax. It may be due to a more competitive market in our area but they were not that competitive. 2 yrs ago we bought a new car. I negotiated the price on a leftover. All the dealers in the area had the same price within a few dollars on a cash basis. I did get a trade in price and a time frame I could get that price after I bought the car. I then went to carmax as I had heard they paid top dollar. As it was being evaluated we decided to look at a used version of what we would buy 1 hr later. The price for a 1 yr used was actually higher than new. I do know there was a glut of the car we wanted due to weird production problems, but actually higher than new was a surprise. When they came with the price it was 1/3 less than the dealers would give us on a car valued at a few thousand. YMMV but at carmax I would have paid more for a used car than I could get a new one down the street.

 

[chapjim]

Whether it is considered change or disruptive is irrelevant. The point is that these business models expanded and legitimized the resale market.

If you are not familiar with how businesses innovate, adapting business models and strategies from other industries is a common approach. It is entirely on-point to visualize how a market could evolve by looking at successful business models in other industries. The case of CarMax is not to talk about the used car industry but to apply the model to TS resale market.

I get the concept. Color me skeptical on putting it to use.

 

[SmithOp]

I agree with Bluehende on Carmax, but I can see where people are comfortable using them, just like someone using one of the TUG recommended TS Resale agents. Paying a little more for full service appeals to people not willing to spend the time or risk bargain shopping.

I purchased a used car for my wife a year ago and found the Cars.com site very useful. I was able to put all my requirements in the search filter and the results included cars from various sources like dealers, carmax, craigslist, etc. Even between dealers I found the one with the price I was willing to pay for the model, year and mileage I wanted.


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[CalGalTraveler]

I get the concept. Color me skeptical on putting it to use.

It's possible but I agree it won't be easy for two reasons:

1) It will require considerable capital to educate the market. I anticipate that the model will create a legitimate P2P exchange or consignment model instead of trading in the timeshare because of the risk and capital required to own the inventory. Think Redweek verified transactions but automated, fast, fully verifiable and known by a broad-base of the market similar to Hotels.som or Expedia. (I bet 80% of TS owners and a tiny fraction of renters even know about Redweek). Advertising takes $

2) Cars are a necessity in all economic cycles. e.g. if your car breaks and you have to get to work. Timeshares are a discretionary luxury for good economic times. However as boomers and Gen X retire and seek more economic ways to spend their free time traveling then this could be a positive trend for resales.

 

[vacationtime1]

And if everyone knew about resale at some point good inventory wouldn’t be available at the prices they are today. Free would have value, the ones that have value would be higher in price as resale demand would increase and less inventory would be available. If it affects the developers bottom line seriously more restrictions will be put on resale. I doubt the developers would be out of business, And there will always be the buyers who will think buying from the developer is better no matter what they hear.

I agree that good weeks will increase in value on the resale market as there will be more potential buyers, more information, and easier transactions.

But a valueless week (mud weeks, etc.) -- isn't suddenly going to be coveted.

 

[WinniWoman]

MLS serves a purpose of sharing a broker's listing and properly compensating participating brokers representing buyers.

What about something like TrueCar? I've shopped from my phone on sofa, selected a couple of cars to test drive, purchase. It's a very easy way to see what's currently available for sale.

Not all dealers participate in True Car. My son found this out when looking for a new car in NH.

I think it was CarMax - or maybe it was Cars.com?-we used to find our 2016 Hyundai (at a Hyundai dealer) and we are thrilled with it. And- very good price. But we called the dealer and drove up the same night to see it and buy it there.

As we were both working and commuting we did not have time to go car shopping, so looking on line was the best for us. Plus we were kind of in a hurry. We sold hubby's old car on Saturday and that Sunday we bough the Hyundai. Picked it up the following Saturday. It was not certified used but had been certified when the prior owner bought it. (Hyundai does not permit a car to be certified twice.)

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I agree that good weeks will increase in value on the resale market as there will be more potential buyers, more information, and easier transactions.

But a valueless week (mud weeks, etc.) -- isn't suddenly going to be coveted.

The real estate maxim "location, location, location" applies to timeshares too. In the case of timeshares its: "Location, Location (Season), MF to Rent Ratio"