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Disrupting Resale Timeshare Industry

Would you digitize your timeshare ownerships to the blockchain to disrupt the resale industry?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 38.1%
  • No

    Votes: 13 61.9%

  • Total voters
    21

kaio

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Some of you may remember me from many years ago; i've rented Millions of points across all types of ownerships and management companies back in the day.

I stepped away from the industry, and pursued other interests in technology. After building multiple million dollar businesses, and then catching embezzlers, suing them, and rebuilding new businesses back to multi-millions; I caught the accountant embezzling and racketeering which shut down a handful of operations, and I lost hundreds of thousands again in investments, etc.. and no longer have anything to work on. So i'm thinking of a new businesses to create while I get back on my feet. Past few years; i've advised many start ups around silicon valley and abroad on technology infrastructure, and business process, etc.. and many times i'll deal with companies wanting to incorporate blockchain with no real basis other than driving sentiment.

Incorporating blockchain in hopes of driving sentiment and utilizing a token as a security first and not even thinking about it's utility application has been the unfortunate demise of most blockchain decentralized applications before they even begin. However, I'd like to think i'm the few that do understand the application of technology and incorporation.

Here is what i'm thinking.. lately, I've been recalling all the ins and outs of the timeshare industry. I read a study that owners are getting younger, and about 10M is still spent per year for timeshares via developers; over 8 million US owners alone... and it's just sad and crazy. Then I look at ARDA who should be governing for the owners as well as industry, etc.. and it's laughable.. back in the day, I recall them trying to sneak "voluntary" donations on maintenance fees.. and would be paid by 80% of owners (most on automatic payments); unbeknownst to them.

I won't get into it, but you can know just by looking at ARDA's site how one-sided their intention of marketing is. Look at the "Featured sites" they have on their website promoting... one site owned by Florida to promote a bogus "good" resale market available, another owned by a technology company on an extremely outdated reservation system sold to resorts that is owned by wyndham (but licensed to starwood/now marriott...umm what?)... the whole technology I may add that can be completely obsolete and beaten in efficiency and cost by use of the other tech or even blockchain (not my use case tho, which i'll get to). Then I look at other nonsense they have and it's crazy to think they are fooling anyone not being a PAC to lobby (marriott/wyndham/etc) and trying to hold the perception of the industry and bad perception of being scammed if you want to get out on the resale market.

Then I look at RCI and II; the two main exchanges back in the day.. RCI I know was bought out by Wyndham... but what, now II is owned by Marriott? what? So they monopolized the exchange industry? Just crazy imo.

So.. here's what I am thinking, I can easily Disrupt the Timeshare ReSale Industry, as technology in the title industry is already being disrupted and completely piss off the monopolies and arda which will either 1) make them offer to buy out and shut down, or 2) force their hand to comply with changes to the industry for the benefit of the owners, regardless of the impact to developers (because the change will happen with or without them). 3) just lose a ton of market share and revenue as well as an over complicated system to benefit solely them.

This is how I'll do it without divulging too much before I create it:
Ledger Timeshare Owners - Digitize their timeshare ownership asset to the blockchain

When someone wants to sell or buy an ownership; it will be 100x easy with a ledgered timeshare as all the information is readily available digitally for the other party to verify (as well as the title company and resort/management company to confirm if needed but they have all that info anyway, etc). They will also be able to see the history thru time on that ownership since being ledgered and tracked as a digital asset (if sold and resold, etc). There can be additional smart contracts to facilitate incorporation of a title transfer company partner for when buyer/sellers do have a transfer to initiate, etc or just program it to automate the bulk of the process until the industry changes (remaining counties not doing erecording, etc). Can also legitimize ownership, and do much more. Could automate deedbacks when viable and offer quick solutions out to those that apply. With industry conforming, it would get much much easier. If a developer incorporated blockchain, then everything could be done at the root level and make this 1000x better and quicker, but no way they will be so quick to do that with the amount they'll lose control and money.

The second part is creating an Association or ledgered timeshares to govern the standard of the decentralized resale/exchange industry along with the technology programming and token itself... as a disrupted industry that needs to be conformed to new technology is a long education process for everyone, especially old owners...

the third part is of course the exchange; allowing timeshare owners a decentralized portal to exchange/trade or deposit reservations with others. So many benefits here such as verification, easy of access to information to confirm, escrow for money between renter and rentee before released all handled automatically along with ledgered accordingly. This can be done in many ways obviously and would need to be tweaked accordingly and voted on by the ledger timeshare owners or exchange users.

There isn't really any money tied to it initially as i'd go sole utility use route to make sure it's a viable model with no funding and not security route that just try's to get investments off of sentiment with no actual viable model... i could probably create it all in my own time and my own dime (as rough as it gets); I may be able to convince an angel investor to drop a few million into it or get funding from a state that wants to invest in a blockchain startup accelerators... but I also know there will be some hurdles; such as time... (it's up to the user to establish account and upload docs to digitize asset), and education (which i can make the process easy by an easy user interface like any other application), and inexperience with crypto (all of which will evolve in time).

But.. if there are really 8M timeshare owners in the US, they are getting younger, sales are still growing every year, the industry is still the wild wild west in the resale market and a nightmare to most that are stuck in it. Developers love this in my mind; disrupting that would be a devastating nightmare, which is why they have a huge PAC (arda) ingrained at every level to make sure it stays that way and people continue to buy from the developer instead of get for little to nothing on the resale market.. it is not a balanced association.... too much like the financial industry... and it's surprisingly easy to disrupt if there was a demand from owners for such a thing... which brings me to my question.

How many people would actually want their timeshare ownership (as an asset) digitized?

How many people would jump on the train as early adapters knowing it may not actually come to benefit them until they have a use for it (ease of information) or it progressed and scaled (decentralized exchange).

This would be created by someone who isn't an owner anywhere, but for owners everywhere. I use to know everything about developers/management companies/resorts/ownerships/contracts/deeds/title work,etc.. so I could do it all very well to the benefit of owners and the resale industry. For owners, the main benefit initially would be they'd have all of their ownership details at their fingertips digitally along with docs... but it would have the capability to handle so much beyond that with smart contracts being integrated to complete functions of the resale and exchange industries... it could go even farther with api's to resort management systems if they ever did comply or integrate blockchain into their own infrastructures. (would reduce cost and increase efficiency of any resort's reservation system entirely alone).

Feedback welcome.. my apologies for the wall of text in some paragraphs.. don't want to relay too much of the benefits nor inner-workings as concept could be stolen before i start... but it's been getting tossed around in my mind a lot and i have the perfect brands, knowledge to create the technology, knowledge of the industry, and I have the vision to seeing it work to the benefit of many owners when the time comes and wish things could be easier.

If you did digitize your timeshare ownership.. make no mistake - nothing changes to your ownership, it's just being recorded digitally that you are the owner... and making the ability to digitally trade such asset or usage possible with ease... in time and a ton of work on my part.

Thanks for reading.
Kaio
 

kaio

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Emerging technology disrupting the industry for the benefit of all. (Except developers who will loss control over owners and uneducated public ).

Reducing inefficiencies and maximizing benefits to the resale market and exchange market, but the entire industry itself... would reduce fraud, scams, as well as.. change technology if you force the industry to change and adapt. If different things evolved and complied, then this type of technology would have major advances to everything

Beyond everything else, Timeshares could be publically traded like a stock from this tech but i can avoid that being possible in my frameworks with programming the initial standard or when governing.

Sorry, its a loose explanation. Ill draft some whitepapers and reshare my proposals.
 
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T-Dot-Traveller

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Emerging technology disrupting the industry for the benefit of all. (Except developers who will loss control over owners and uneducated public ).

Reducing inefficiencies and maximizing benefits to the resale market and exchange market,

Beyond everything else, Timeshares could be publically traded like a stock from this tech

.

IMO - your wasting your time re: the resale market .

1) In general resale timeshares have a dollar value of $0-1 ( see ebay). All the value is in use


2) If you want to create the next RCI for peer to peer exchange use - maybe .

3) Developers are unlikely to loose control . Wyndham is (I believe) the largest with something like 500,000 owners . Read the TUG threads on the Wyndham suspended
owners program for additional knowledge .

4) Ovation by Wyndham and similar programs are gradually diminishing the issue
of (fully paid up) owners who need an exit plan due to age or life changes .
 
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AndySamuels

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Whether or not a deed is digital or physical does not change anything with regards to the legal aspects of ownership and the rights / obligations that these relate to. Nor does it change anything about supply and demand of the underlying product and/or perceived/actual value thereof. It would also have a minimal impact on fraud and/or resale dynamics.

Many timeshares also have a negative value: e.g. people need to offer hefty incentives to find buyers (free closing, gift cards, maintenance fees in advance) in the resale market. Timeshares that are not paid off are impossible, not allowed to trade, resorts often have right of first refusal and are subject to filing in local jurisdictions (e.g. deeds). So public trading of timeshares makes no sense. Plus eBay in effect is already the clearing house of choice for both undesirable and desirable resales.

The only market area where there may be an opening would be AirBNB platform for timeshare rental where supply and demand meet. However: that is probably not easily realized as reaching owners and having this flawlessly integrate with resorts and demand is probably very difficult.

Developer sales will remain very strong. Sales leads are generated by offering people free incentives. Many people will be convinced in person during presentations purely by statistics of keeping a flow of a high volume of people coming in. Many people who sign and do not rescind did so out of impulsive conviction. They are not aware of the resale market and did not plan on becoming an owner to begin with. Any digital platform will not change anything about this fact.

Not too long ago www.vacatia.com tried to build an online platform for timeshare sales and it was a failure.
https://techcrunch.com/2013/09/04/o...-5m-to-simplify-buying-and-selling-timeshares
http://www.marketwired.com/press-re...ace-of-royal-resorts-resale-weeks-2163647.htm

This is all my personal opinion and perspective.
 
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kaio

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I'm afraid the concept has been missed and seen as a resale company instead of a technology company; however, I appreciate every reply. If everyone that has owned a timeshare has no concerns, then definitely nothing to spend 99% of my time awake doing.. but if they're are things to fix, then there is always a way to do it and i'm usually the one that does it.

This isn't a for profit business concept; and it's not aimed at gaining from any transfers of ownership; it's not selling or buying, it's removing areas that developers depend on being hurdles in the resale market. I'm well rehearsed and an expert in the timeshare resale market; I know the values better than most, or the lack there of on the majority. It would also alleviate concerns of fraud/deception from the resale market which is developers/apac #1 grassroots bandwagon.

t-dot-t - developers can and will loose control or existing market share if they are not careful.. buying up exchanges and monopolizing while forming pac associations as a shell isn't going to last forever. Also; I dont' agree that the issue with owners needing an exit plan will ever disappear in the industry's current state or future. This is an asset that will always be transferred from party to party; worthless or not, (not including death, deadback, etc)

Also, It wouldn't matter as i'm not selling them an exit plan; but if they found one, it shouldn't cost them thousands in upfront fees and concerned of being taken, and the digital asset would be insured in such ways of artificial intelligence and automation. This is to change the industry with small steps into a larger picture.

AndySamuels is correct that making deeds digital doesn't change anything legally in terms of ownership; however, being able to manipulate the ownership easier (transferring, renting, etc) changes everything in economics and trading (think about how natural gas turned into a traded commodity, didn't happen overnight). Although this isn't a commodity and this isn't a one purpose feature; im not planning on building a trading vehicle or sales platform as I know the latter would absolutely fail.

What I do know; is owners misplace their docs, don't know what they own, and many times deeds/contracts are wrong or mistaken or commonly incorrect resulting in errors and transfers not completing. Add in other factors due to human error along with 6-12 months of reoccuring mistakes, and the owner claims fraud or the title company can't resolve, etc... All this could be solvable instantly. Deedbacks could be done automatically and start almost instantly if owner decided to and had all ownership docs digital, etc... but not to get hung up on the small things, i guess i understand the technology so I understand how the bigger picture would threaten developers in many different degrees. I appreciate the comments and future reply's/feedback; in the meantime, i'll organize a whitepaper to better represent what i envision and so i can disclose proprietary info that would better paint the picture in lament terms.
 
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CalGalTraveler

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@kaio I am still trying to get my head around this idea so forgive me if I am slow as I am still absorbing. (I am in tech and work with new business ideas all of the time.)

There is a huge need to make the resale market more fluid i.e. a market needs to be made. AirBnB and Uber are examples where new markets were made that didn't exist before. Some Tuggers have suggested that we need a CarMax for resales to bolster the resale market. It sounds like you are ideating something along those lines?

You are also describing an enabling technology, blockchain, which could support but blockchain/digitizing is not a solution. I am not making the connection as to how the business model will change other than putting the transfer companies out of business - but that is a minor cost $250 - $1000 in the title process and make estoppels easier to access.

Can you provide some kind of comparison e.g. is this like an AirBnB or UBER for timesale sales? timeshare rentals? How would that work? Please elaborate.
 

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With all due respect; this retort was nonsense. Looking for helpful info on whether anyone would digitize their ownership if they saw potential benefit.
Your whole concept is nonsense. 99% of the folks on tug don't even understand what blockchain or Bitcoin technology is all about it now you've talked about converting digital. Most of us come here because we don't even understand timeshares to begin with because they were sold to us.

your initial post is way too long away too complicated I didn't even read it not going to bother not happening.
 

DK3

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Kalo,
What would you gain from doing this this? Altruism cannot be the only motive.
 

kaio

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Nor does it change anything about supply and demand of the underlying product and/or perceived/actual value thereof. It would also have a minimal impact on fraud and/or resale dynamics.

Respectfully Disagree.. Supply and demand to developer market is greatly affected by the resale market, and vise versa; along with the respective perceived values by the parties purchasing one or another. The resale dynamics automatically change with emerging technology expediting and optimizing the transfer and documentation of ownerships.. Fraud can be minimized on several levels and even completely eliminated as possible on some degrees; this would kill the dynamic of people getting scammed or the perception of timeshare scams in ways that would no longer be capable with emerging tech.
 

connect1

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I like the idea of creating a new association dedicated to timeshare owners and not developers.
I like the idea of creating a different exchange company that is not owned by large developers. I
I like the idea of bringing the industry up to speed with technology.

My initial concerns: New owners may be younger, stats on this would be of value. My guess is timeshare ownership (especially those who own multiple timeshares and own the deeds outright) are in the over 50 brackets. This demographic doesn't understand blockchain to the level your concept is introducing. Because the timeshare industry is wrought with charlatans the trust factor along with the level of education needed would be enormous hurdles.

Developers are placing more restrictions every year with renting / exchanging timeshares. AirBNB, VRBO, etc. don't allow timeshare weeks rental. Introducing blockchain and a new exchange company could be thwarted before you get off the ground. Now if AirBNB or VRBO introduces blockchain to renters and owners for exchange... you would have less proof of concept. However, once they do then you may be too late to the party on the exchange front.

It sounds as if you have blown through many hurdles in the past. I will be interested in hearing updates to your plans.
 

AndySamuels

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Respectfully Disagree..

Good luck!

Since resales take place on eBay, Redweek, TUG and some other websites (with mostly stale inventory) I am not convinced there is enough demand in the marketplace to warrant/support block chain. IMO this is a solution in search of a (nonexistent) problem.
 

CalGalTraveler

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@kaio

re: Exchanges. I believe there is latent demand. Perhaps what you are describing is more like a StubHub where owners can post their exchanges, rentals and last minute rentals online for a secure transaction. I believe there is significant demand for a secure, safe platform for people to easily and seamlessly conduct exchanges outside of RCI and II. Now that fees are ballooning, even if you charged 1/2 you could get adoption.

The rental and exchange postings on Redweek and Tug are helpful but analogous to putting your rental on Craigslist; it is clunky and involves human intervention to ensure its not a scam - there is risk and cost which holds back the market; I am hesitant to rent because of the time and risk involved. Many would rather pay a fee to RCI/II and book it like on Hilton.com or Marriott.com. Many, myself included, don't want to stay up at night worrying about whether a vacation rental is legit.

The problem is that this is a two-sided market and as such they are difficult to develop and get a quorum of owners and renters participating. But once you get it, two-sided markets work such that winner takes all (or most).

Perhaps partnering with TUG or Redweek would give this a headstart? Redweek has a manual service. Perhaps adding such tech would make this more seamless. The exchange idea to create an alternative RCI and II may have legs but needs a lot more definition on the value propositions.

re: Sales. I am not convinced about the sales transactions because the developers have ROFR, or could charge exorbitant fees. They have too much control of the transaction so the biggest UVP is to license it as internal infrastructure to IT to track their inventory. But that's a completely different business model.

Good luck!
 
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chapjim

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Hi Jim ,
I just googled your reference .
As an allegory - are you referring to Daniel in the Den of Lions / or dreams ?

Thanks-

Yes -- the part about whoever can interpret these writings shall be clothed in purple.

I have no idea what OP is talking about and it seems I'm not alone!
 

vacationtime1

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Fron post #9:

. . .
t-dot-t - developers can and will loose control or existing market share if they are not careful.. buying up exchanges and monopolizing while forming pac associations as a shell isn't going to last forever. Also; I dont' agree that the issue with owners needing an exit plan will ever disappear in the industry's current state or future. This is an asset that will always be transferred from party to party; worthless or not, (not including death, deadback, etc)

Also, It wouldn't matter as i'm not selling them an exit plan; but if they found one, it shouldn't cost them thousands in upfront fees and concerned of being taken, and the digital asset would be insured in such ways of artificial intelligence and automation. This is to change the industry with small steps into a larger picture.

AndySamuels is correct that making deeds digital doesn't change anything legally in terms of ownership; however, being able to manipulate the ownership easier (transferring, renting, etc) changes everything in economics and trading (think about how natural gas turned into a traded commodity, didn't happen overnight). Although this isn't a commodity and this isn't a one purpose feature; im not planning on building a trading vehicle or sales platform as I know the latter would absolutely fail. . . .

The developers are already a step ahead. By creating "trusts", "clubs", etc., the developers maintain legal ownership of the units. The only thing "owners" actually "own" is a beneficial interest in the trust (which is the right to use the property, subject to the terms of the trust or club which are controlled by the developer). The developer remains the legal owner of the units and therefore has 100% control over the HOA, the MF's, and therefore the money.

I don't see how blockchain or anything else can empower "owners" -- owners who don't own the right to control the HOA. Yes, it may be useful for trading, but even that will require hundreds of thousands of computer illiterates to sign up before it achieves critical mass.

The timeshare industry is incredibly fragmented. The above comments by others show the skepticism much of the public has about blockchain post-Bitcoin. I, too, detest the power that certain corporations have over the industry. But I don't see blockchain as a solution in the short term.
 
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kaio

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I didn't even read it not going to bother not happening.

Appreciate the validation.

For others who stumble on not understanding emerging tech... Remove everything you think you know or don't know about decentralized ledgers [blockchain] as you never need to know how they work, etc; just like you likely don't how a PRA system works, or any technology you use for that matter. Do you know how your applications work? Or anything about tugbbs.com front end or back end? Does it make your life better regardless now adays? Anyone that's transferred a timeshare quick and easy.. what were the chances the deed was electronically recorded? How has that helped everyone compared to snail mail, etc? Forget what type of infrastructure... all that matters is making the industry more fluid and the outcome in 20 years... and there is tons of room in this industry for optimization and change. Figuring out how to optimize an industry and incorporate new technology is exactly what I do. And i'm not even talking about an easy way of incorporating tech at the root level (selling the tech to resorts/etc); i'm talking about the hard way of putting it in the owners hands first to stick it to the devs and force their hands rather than them be able to govern the technology impact on the industry.

Appreciate responses thus far; will continue upon feedback shortly, thank you for reading and contributing.
 
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AndySamuels

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Aside from the fact that each jurisdiction is unique with regards to how deeds are registered, documentation required and by whom there is not really a profitability model in brokerage beyond what already exists today. The success of AirBnB, Uber, Lyft, Thumbtack are that the barriers to entry for both users and providers are exceedingly low. Plus continued investor funds are a lifeline. Billions have been invested in most of these platforms with deep losses for many quarters/years. In the case of timeshares this is obviously not the case. Regardless of blockchain.

Replacing a jurisdiction legal recording of deeds with a third party blockchain appears a bit unrealistic. Each jurisdiction would require legislation on the applicable legal code. That does not seem likely to me.

Not to mention that the developers are multibillion dollar corporations with tremendous vested interests. Once they figure out that people are exploiting a loophole they typically direct their attorneys to find ways to shut down these loopholes very aggressively. Or alternatively: in the case of the resale market: by setting up their own deed back programs such as Wyndham Ovation.

Plus digital recording of deeds is already in existence apparently: https://simplifile.com. I still fail to see how speeding up / simplifying the recording of deeds does anything to increase supply and/or demand of resales. Plus recording a title is separate from developer speed of processing/adjudication of ROFR on a resale transaction.
 
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kaio

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I am not convinced there is enough demand in the marketplace

I had this thought but I have alleviated this concern in my mind after further research as the marketplace is not the driving factor of the initial phase. It's not a make or break and the concept wouldn't even need to adapt need to adapt historic owners to scale... it's about the future, not the past.. but anyone could become aware nonetheless... also; if the industry progresses and changes, you won't have a choice anyway (if marriott decided to ledger their management system, their reservation system and along side Interval International.. they'd be able to fire many employees and save tons in costs, etc...).. but the thing about first to market is taking the lead and setting standards for the new wave. If they had expertise to do this themselves, they would... they are most definitely researching and working on it; but far off in validity and logic as they do not have me or the few others at the moment that could implement the needed technical details before going down the wrong road.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Worry much less about the technology and worry more about the business model. I see this a lot in tech - too much obsession with technology while not thinking about the market.

There are market possibilities here but you have to get the business model right first. As an analogy, Stubhub provides what you are discussing about guaranteeing exchanges and reducing risk without blockchain technology.

Don't worry about the naysayers citing the developers power. People said the same thing about taxi industry and Uber, and hotel industry and AirBnB. However you need to find a strategic entry point; exchanges are less direct threat than sales.
 
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Ralph Sir Edward

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It can't change the legal covenants nor the sales model the developers follow.

Timeshares aren't pure real estate sales, (even though they are touted as such) there are always major strings attached by the developers. Such as right to prevent commercial use of timeshares, Right Of First Refusal clauses, ect.

Timeshares are in the mess they have always been, because they are vastly overbuilt. They are overbuilt because the development model is virtually totally sales driven; all of the profit is made by selling them the first time. Bit chain is not going to affect this model, it could only affect the aftermarket, and even then, there is much fragmentation in the aftermarket.

Consider, I buy an aftermarket timeshare. It may take months to close. (So does a house, as well.) I am going to hold this asset for decade or more (perhaps many decades); am I concerned about the closing time required.

Second, I am a "brave person" from a common perspective, because "everybody knows" they are scams. (Due to the developer sales model.) (personally, I was inrtroduced to timeshares by an Aunt and Uncle who owned Marriotts, I got to "try before you buy" for free. Few people have that kind of introduction.)

I don't see how your model could improve the situation, except in manners that are superficial to the core problem. (By the by, I am an old techie myself. I've seen my share of "crash and burns".)
 
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