maintenance fee increases Marriott vs Vistana

[VacationForever]

Sorry, my question was do all California timeshares charge property taxes separately from MFs?

Yes we own FSA and Grand Cal. We get separate property tax bills for other timeshares too. It is hard to keep track of all these small bills. They come at all different times and they are for small amounts.

Yes, all California timeshares charge property taxes separately from MFs. To put it in clearer terms, CA HOA bills do not include property taxes. CA property taxes come directly from the counties.

 

[TravelTime]

Yes, all California timeshares charge property taxes separately from MFs. To put it in clearer terms, CA HOA bills do not include property taxes. CA property taxes come directly from the counties.

It is interesting that some states include property taxes in the MFs and some do not. Wouldn’t it then be better to do an apples to apples comparison with MF + property taxes? That still does not take into account all of the other factors like age, location, quality level, etc.

 

[controller1]

let me be a bit suspicious of how they calculate the maintenance fees increases since we know very little about what goes in every line of the resort budget. I am comparing Lagunamar 2019 vs 2018. The largest increase is in "resort operations", a whopping 18% or 1.1 million dollars. The increase alone is more than 5% of the total budget. This is very surprising especially since the Mexican peso has been week. To mitigate the overall increase, the resort just lowered the reserve fee revenue from 4.1 to 3.8 millions.

The internet access fee continues to amaze me, almost 1000 dollars per condo per year. I am no specialist in hotel internet costs but it seems quite a bit to me!

View attachment 9180

Well, what does Footnote (5) indicate? I assume most of the labor is in the number.

 

[VacationForever]

It is interesting that some states include property taxes in the MFs and some do not. Wouldn’t it then be better to do an apples to apples comparison with MF + property taxes? That still does not take into account all of the other factors like age, location, quality level, etc.

I agree. But the Moderators on Vistana and Marriott boards decided that for properties that are billed property taxes separately to not report. Heck, with my CA timeshare, I am kicking myself for owning them as we would have gotten much more DC points if we had owned Ko Olina, as it is where we really LOVE, and the MF is not that crazy when compared with our CA timeshare.

 

[TravelTime]

I agree. But the Moderators on Vistana and Marriott boards decided that for properties that are billed property taxes separately to not report. Heck, with my CA timeshare, I am kicking myself for owning them as we would have gotten much more DC points if we had owned Ko Olina, as it is where we really LOVE, and the MF is not that crazy when compared with our CA timeshare.

I love Ko Olina too. We own at MKO and Aulani. It’s a nice combo for a longer vacation. We only own at FSA because it is dog friendly. We will probably sell Grand Cal in the next year or two unless there is a reason to keep it. I do not plan to stay there actually. I had different goals when we purchased it.

 

[dioxide45]

It is interesting that some states include property taxes in the MFs and some do not. Wouldn’t it then be better to do an apples to apples comparison with MF + property taxes? That still does not take into account all of the other factors like age, location, quality level, etc.

It would be good and if you are truly trying to determine you costs, you need to include the taxes in the equation. The problem is that every owner at a CA property will pay a different amount of taxes. Sometimes significantly, all based on how much they paid for it. A developer purchaser will pay a lot more than someone that paid $1 resale.

 

[TravelTime]

It would be good and if you are truly trying to determine you costs, you need to include the taxes in the equation. The problem is that every owner at a CA property will pay a different amount of taxes. Sometimes significantly, all based on how much they paid for it. A developer purchaser will pay a lot more than someone that paid $1 resale.

Good point that the cost basis is different. I guess it is very hard to do an apples to apples comparison but at least when comparing within the same location, the same rules apply. So within California, you should compare without property taxes included.

 

[blondietink]

If you are worried, just look over on the DisBoards into what is happening to the yearly fees for DVC properties. Since Disney settled with the union, the fees for next year have gone up substantially for next year. We own both DVC and Vistana and I will say that DVC properties have more employees overall than what I have seen at any Vistana resort, so hopefully Vistana fees with not increase quite as much.

 

[TravelTime]

We have to assume that all MFs at all timeshares will be increasing substantially as minimum wages go up. No reason to complain, right?

 

[DannyTS]

If you are worried, just look over on the DisBoards into what is happening to the yearly fees for DVC properties. Since Disney settled with the union, the fees for next year have gone up substantially for next year. We own both DVC and Vistana and I will say that DVC properties have more employees overall than what I have seen at any Vistana resort, so hopefully Vistana fees with not increase quite as much.

I see though that HGVC does not have large increases at all. So it looks that DVC followed by Marriott are at the top of the list.
I am not worried but i still dislike the idea of spending more money for exactly the same service or product. I guess i am more or less insulated from this since 3 out of my 4 weeks are not in the US (Westin Lagunamar Cancun and Hilton Craigendarroch Scotland)

 

[BocaBoy]

I believe 100% of the timeshare properties of Marriott and Vistana are owned by MVC and are not franchised.

It is really 0%. They are owned by the OWNERS, not the manager of the property. We own the resorts, not MVCI. I am surprised that so many people don't seem to understand this.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

FYI...HGVC increased by 3.19% in 2018 on average across the system. In 2019 the increase so far is 3.71% with approx 80% reporting as of 11/20. (Kudos to the forum moderator for assembling this.)

Do we have similar aggregate figures for Marriott and Vistana to compare?

 

[DannyTS]

FYI...HGVC increased by 3.19% in 2018 on average across the system. In 2019 the increase so far is 3.71% with approx 80% reporting as of 11/20. (Kudos to the forum moderator for assembling this.)

Do we have similar aggregate figures for Marriott and Vistana to compare?

I do not see the aggregate numbers for Marriott and Vistana.

However, most Vistana MF increases are in the 1-3% range (the ones posted at least). The Marriott destination points MF are up 4.9% so i assume that the average cannot be very far from that. I see many resorts with increases around 5%

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMO, it would be most helpful to compare to Marriott weeks and not DC points. And then compare Flex to DC. HGVC does not have a trust points system.

 

[DannyTS]

IMO, it would be most helpful to compare to Marriott weeks and not DC points. And then compare Flex to DC. HGVC does not have a trust points system.

you are right, i just do not have the aggregate data

 

[dioxide45]

IMO, it would be most helpful to compare to Marriott weeks and not DC points. And then compare Flex to DC. HGVC does not have a trust points system.

The thing is though, that the DC is already an aggregate of the weeks that the trust owns. So, comparing percentage increases using DC point MF increase is probably a fairly good and close estimate.

 

[TravelTime]

HGVC appears to be the low cost provider among the branded timeshares from what I am reading. It sounds like the best value for the dollar right now.

I still think comparing MF increases is missing a lot. You need to look at absolute costs and other factors to determine if an increase is reasonable or not.

I also suspect the economy will be seeing inflation from increased labor costs (minimum wage is increasing by 50%+ in many markets) over the next few years. This will impact everything and have a ripple effect.

Non US timeshares (I own one) appear low right now but the dollar is very strong right now.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2548/euro-dollar-exchange-rate-historical-chart

https://www.macrotrends.net/2559/us-dollar-mexican-peso-exchange-rate-historical-chart

 

[klpca]

Yes, all California timeshares charge property taxes separately from MFs. To put it in clearer terms, CA HOA bills do not include property taxes. CA property taxes come directly from the counties.

Not all. Carlsbad Seapointe and Club Donatello pay the property taxes and include it with the maintenance fees. There may be others but I agree with you, it seems that most bill them separately.

 

[TravelTime]

Not all. Carlsbad Seapointe and Club Donatello pay the property taxes and include it with the maintenance fees. There may be others but I agree with you, it seems that most bill them separately.

Disney sends us a separate property tax bill for Florida. Also, I get billed separated for VAT for my Spain timeshare. It shows up on the Marriott bill but the MF is billed seaparately from VAT. I already paid the VAT but I have not yet been billed for the European timeshare MF.

 

[TravelTime]

It is a good time to own Mexican timeshares. It does not appear the Mexican peso will be going up anytime soon. I will not provide my evidence for my prediction as to not cause any controversy or get into Mexican politics.

 

[canesfan]

I am not sure why you are analyzing the line items. What will you do with this information?

Besides my MF at WLR increased $6 from last year. Is that really an increase that needs to be analyzed? The same goes for my two WKORN, less than $10 increase is not going to keep me up at night. It’s a far cry from those early days of my ownership when the resort was newly developed and the economy was in a tailspin!


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[DannyTS]

Besides my MF at WLR increased $6 from last year. Is that really an increase that needs to be analyzed? The same goes for my two WKORN, less than $10 increase is not going to keep me up at night. It’s a far cry from those early days of my ownership when the resort was newly developed and the economy was in a tailspin!


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i think there is merit in analyzing even small changes. Trust but verify, this way companies know they cannot get away with everything. Does it help? I do not know, maybe not. But for sure it does not hurt. I also want to point out that future changes are based on current increases. A 5% annual increase for a few years in a row does make a big difference in time even if in any given year the increase does not seem too bad.

Besides, if your change was only $6 i think you have a EOY studio at Lagunamar hence the small dollar amount.

As I said before, the Vistana increases seem to be some of the smallest so i hope they will remain this way.

 

[canesfan]

i think there is merit in analyzing even small changes. Trust but verify, this way companies know they cannot get away with everything. Does it help? I do not know, maybe not. But for sure it does not hurt. I also want to point out that future changes are based on current increases. A 5% annual increase for a few years in a row does make a big difference in time even if in any given year the increase does not seem too bad.

Besides, if your change was only $6 i think you have a EOY studio at Lagunamar hence the small dollar amount.

As I said before, the Vistana increases seem to be some of the smallest so i hope they will remain this way.

Nope, I have a 2BR Platinum EY Oceanside at WLR.


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[DannyTS]

Nope, I have a 2BR Platinum EY Oceanside at WLR.


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the increase at Lagunamar is 2.3% 2019 vs 2018 so if you have a 2 bedroom your increase is not $6

 

[controller1]

the increase at Lagunamar is 2.3% 2019 vs 2018 so if you have a 2 bedroom your increase is not $6

Not only that but the increase for @canesfan at WKORVN could not have been only $10 since maintenance fees increased 3.07%.