Does this use of frequent flyer miles make sense?

[GaryDouglas]

I was just doing a what-if on a potential use of FF miles: Business Class from SFO to London for two via United. I got a cost of ~580K and ~$600 taxes and fees. Does this sound reasonable? The dollar value appears to be approximately $11K.

I am relatively new to use of FF miles, in fact my only use to-date has been with our trips to OGG. Anybody have a FAQ link on getting smart about all this?

 

[isisdave]

The UK has a nasty departure tax called Air Passenger Duty, and it's currently £156, about $200, for trans-Atlantic flights in business class. And it's going up in April. You might return from Dublin or Paris instead.

Also, I've found "fees" for some of these flights that amounted to "because we can" fees. Look around at different partners and different airports.

 

[bnoble]

Depends on the program. I use The Points Guy's valuations; if the use of points is at least close to his valuations, I feel good about it.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/monthly-valuations/

 

[GaryDouglas]

Since we would be going to Ireland too, that sounds like a wiser egress point. I’ve been familiarizing myself with the pointsguy site and thanks for the specific link.

Are most business class FF usage in that ball park? If so, I may consider and upgraded coach option...

 

[x3 skier]

Since we would be going to Ireland too, that sounds like a wiser egress point. I’ve been familiarizing myself with the pointsguy site and thanks for the specific link.

Are most business class FF usage in that ball park? If so, I may consider and upgraded coach option...

I’ve been using miles to fly Biz Class to London and Europe for 20 years from Ohio. Just about all of my redemptions have been between 100k and 150k Miles. All have been on either One World (American and partners) or Sky Team (Delta and partners). Sometimes I fly to another country since it might be lower miles and take the train or a cheap flight to get to London after seeing the sites in the arrival city. I fly in Oct so there tends to be lower required miles than during the summer, but almost 300k miles per person is way high.

Leaving from Ireland is definitely a better choice.

The points guy is a good site to get info on the use of FF Miles.

Cheers

 

[GaryDouglas]

...Just about all of my redemptions have been between 100k and 150k Miles.

So for 2 tickets you would expect 200-300 FF miles. OK, good to know that almost 600K was way high. That was the number I got from United for next May. Maybe fall close to 330 days out would get better numbers...

 

[bizaro86]

So for 2 tickets you would expect 200-300 FF miles. OK, good to know that almost 600K was way high. That was the number I got from United for next May. Maybe fall close to 330 days out would get better numbers...

Play around with dates and departure/arrival cities, as that can make a significant difference.

 

[GetawaysRus]

Here's a simple way to look at your proposed redemption:

You would be using 580,000 United miles to get tickets with a cash value of $11,000.

That is 11,000 dollars divided by 580,000 miles = .019 dollar per mile, or 1.9 cents per mile. (And yes, for simplicity, I am ignoring the fees you'd have to pay for this ticket.)

In other words, you would be getting a value of 1.9 cents per mile. You are asking: if that a good value for your miles? And I agree with you - it's only a so-so redemption. It's often possible to get more value per mile.

Whether it's worth proceeding depends on how badly you want this flight. If you've got an otherwise fabulous trip, and this is your best air option, maybe.

For comparison, what value per mile have I gotten for some recent redemptions? (Once again, for simplicity, I will ignore the fees, but none of the following were that bad.)
- 2.7 cents (American Airlines)
- 3.3 cents (United partner)
- 5.7 cents (AA partner)
- 4.0 cents (AA partner)
As you can see, the value I get per mile is all over the map. Sometimes you win big and sometimes you don't.

 

[echino]

You can only vaule tickets at $11,000 if you would have otherwise paid $11,000 in cash for them. Were you ready to pay that much if you didn't have miles?

If not, then how much were you really willing to pay, in cash, for those tickets? Use that number to calculate how much value you get per mile.

 

[Southdown13]

I booked a one way United Polaris business class ticket for May 2019 LHR – SFO for 155,000 miles and $307 in fees for each person after we finish our cruise. I checked when the booking window opened (~337 days) but couldn’t find any Business Saver Award space for a nonstop flight. I found some Saver Awards for 70,000 miles but they were 1 stop and 22-28 hours total travel time. We are hoping the United Polaris J will be better than British Airways J that we recently flew from LHR – SFO.

 

[bizaro86]

You can only vaule tickets at $11,000 if you would have otherwise paid $11,000 in cash for them. Were you ready to pay that much if you didn't have miles?

If not, then how much were you really willing to pay, in cash, for those tickets? Use that number to calculate how much value you get per mile.

This is an important point, that I would say a significant number of people miss.

 

[GetawaysRus]

You can only vaule tickets at $11,000 if you would have otherwise paid $11,000 in cash for them. Were you ready to pay that much if you didn't have miles?

If not, then how much were you really willing to pay, in cash, for those tickets? Use that number to calculate how much value you get per mile.

OK, but don't burst our bubbles. In life, it's nice to think that you're winning at least occasionally.

Seats in First or Business class are aspirational. Sure, I could sit in coach. But my wife wouldn't travel with me ever again.

 

[VacationForever]

I was just doing a what-if on a potential use of FF miles: Business Class from SFO to London for two via United. I got a cost of ~580K and ~$600 taxes and fees. Does this sound reasonable? The dollar value appears to be approximately $11K.

I am relatively new to use of FF miles, in fact my only use to-date has been with our trips to OGG. Anybody have a FAQ link on getting smart about all this?

We have been doing this for our international flights and since we only fly in business class with fewest stops, for Europe fares, we have been paying with 155K one way per person on United, which comes to 620K for 2 people. We are also doing this for our Asia trip this winter, at 180K per person one way and we just booked using 720K United miles. The tickets are priced at about $13K in total. Since this cost is real and flying anything lower than business class is a non-starter, we just pay using miles.

We have found better alternatives occasionally on Delta last year and this year, where Delta One to/fro Europe was as low as 70K per person one way. We did cruises out of Europe last year and this year. However pricing out for next year showed ridiculous number of Delta skymiles required.

 

[PaulT]

The UK has a nasty departure tax called Air Passenger Duty, and it's currently £156, about $200, for trans-Atlantic flights in business class. And it's going up in April. You might return from Dublin or Paris instead.

Also, I've found "fees" for some of these flights that amounted to "because we can" fees. Look around at different partners and different airports.

Maybe I am missing something here. Wouldn't they still charge the Air Passenger Duty for the flight from London to Dublin?

All the UK fees and surcharges, not to mention the outrageous fees British Airways charges for FF travel/redemption, have made me avoid traveling through London whenever I can. I wanted to go back to South Africa again and the only partner airline for my AA frequent flyer miles was BA. Their fees/taxes were HUGE and I wasn't willing to pay them. FWIW, a paid coach ticket was only slightly higher than the cost of the fees and taxes BA was going to charge me.

 

[x3 skier]

Maybe I am missing something here. Wouldn't they still charge the Air Passenger Duty for the flight from London to Dublin?

All the UK fees and surcharges, not to mention the outrageous fees British Airways charges for FF travel/redemption, have made me avoid traveling through London whenever I can. I wanted to go back to South Africa again and the only partner airline for my AA frequent flyer miles was BA. Their fees/taxes were HUGE and I wasn't willing to pay them. FWIW, a paid coach ticket was only slightly higher than the cost of the fees and taxes BA was going to charge me.

The Air Passenger Duty is mileage based, IIRC. Much lower from London to Dublin than trans-Atlantic.

Cheerd

 

[PaulT]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[jehb2]

Most (not all) AA frequent flyer tickets to Europe go through London. For an economy ticket the surcharge is around $600. I feel like would be paying them $600 to take my 60,000 miles.

 

[GaryDouglas]

I'll keep looking into this to see if it's worthwhile pursuing. Something tells me my education will guide me towards something less than business class… Thanks all!

 

[VacationForever]

I'll keep looking into this to see if it's worthwhile pursuing. Something tells me my education will guide me towards something less than business class… Thanks all!

One option which I forgot to mention is that if you are willing to take your chances and don't mind being stuck with non-business class seats is that with United you can "buy Economy", pay for upgrade - usually for a small amount of cash with a small number of points like 30K or something each way. United usually indicates "waitlisted" but often clears for domestic or from US out internationally, but it does not always clear for international coming back to US. When that happens, they will refund you the upgrade $ and points.

 

[x3 skier]

Most (not all) AA frequent flyer tickets to Europe go through London. For an economy ticket the surcharge is around $600. I feel like would be paying them $600 to take my 60,000 miles.

In all the years of traveling on AA to Europe, I’ve never paid more than $300 or so in fees and taxes. If I by mistake picked a flight operated by British Airways as a AA flight number or as a BA flight, the fees and taxes were ridiculously high. The most recent was economy to and Business return for $305.

Cheers

 

[CalGalTraveler]

One option which I forgot to mention is that if you are willing to take your chances and don't mind being stuck with non-business class seats is that with United you can "buy Economy", pay for upgrade - usually for a small amount of cash with a small number of points like 30K or something each way. United usually indicates "waitlisted" but often clears for domestic or from US out internationally, but it does not always clear for international coming back to US. When that happens, they will refund you the upgrade $ and points.

This is what we do. We purchase with Chase Reward points via the Chase portal because ticket shows as a paid seat eligible for upgrade in the United system. Then add points for the upgrade. Cannot upgrade reward economy class seats if purchased direct from UAL.

 

[jehb2]

In all the years of traveling on AA to Europe, I’ve never paid more than $300 or so in fees and taxes. If I by mistake picked a flight operated by British Airways as a AA flight number or as a BA flight, the fees and taxes were ridiculously high. The most recent was economy to and Business return for $305.

Cheers

I am referring to flights to or from Europe that go through London. FF flights that go through London have a high surcharge.

I Just checked again. I have to fly in June and July when the kids are out of school. I'm just a regular AA FF member. I don't have any special status. If want to fly from Texas to Rome, Italy (economy class) and I go through London I will pay 60,000 in points and $500-$540 in fees. Now there are some AA FF flights on IB that go through Spain that will allow me to avoid this fee.

But last time we flew to Italy and I wanted to use FF on AA the fee was $600 a ticket ($300 each way) when connecting through London. At that time there were no FF options for going through a different city or flying direct in economy. I could fly direct and avoid changing planes in London if I used FF miles for Business Class but not for economy. Again that was June & July so we just paid out of pocket and flew direct.

Also I started looking for my tickets at 330 days out.

 

[x3 skier]

I am referring to flights to or from Europe that go through London. FF flights that go through London have a high surcharge.

I Just checked again. I have to fly in June and July when the kids are out of school. I'm just a regular AA FF member. I don't have any special status. If want to fly from Texas to Rome, Italy (economy class) and I go through London I will pay 60,000 in points and $500-$540 in fees. Now there are some AA FF flights on IB that go through Spain that will allow me to avoid this fee.

But last time we flew to Italy and I wanted to use FF on AA the fee was $600 a ticket ($300 each way) when connecting through London. At that time there were no FF options for going through a different city or flying direct in economy. I could fly direct and avoid changing planes in London if I used FF miles for Business Class but not for economy. Again that was June & July so we just paid out of pocket and flew direct.

Also I started looking for my tickets at 330 days out.

Checking for myself on a saver FF flight from DFW to Rome next June involves a British Airways flight from LHR to FCO. BA is notorious for tacking on excessive fees so I’m not surprised at the $600 fees. If it were me, I’d avoid flying BA by checking LCC like Wizz Air or other for the LHR - FCO leg.

There’s a game to be played finding the lowest mile/fee routing that I sort of enjoy having the flexibility to travel at most any time. If you don’t have that flexibility or don’t want to take the time to fiddle with various options, you might pay much more than you “have to pay”.

Good luck in your planning

Cheers

 

[beejaybeeohio]

One tip for using AA miles that we hope to be able to take advantage of is that, should business or first become available at the saver level after booking economy, we can upgrade for the mileage difference. E.G. we "paid" 55k miles each for a one-way non-saver award to Buenos Aires from CLE, so for 2.5k more we may get lucky and move to business. (What really amazed me was that non-saver ff tix could run even more than the minimum- 2 days later it's 75k pp for economy!)