Nanea TS vs. Kierland Trader?

[celica7101]

Also, it looks like the sales person was misleading about the perks attached to the developer sale.

They said 90,000 SPG *4 for $1875. What they really meant was (90,000SPG for $1875) *4. Having to pay $7500 vs. $1850 for 360k SPG points prior to the Marriott boost up (multiplied by 3), is also a big difference in perk.

I got my big sales packet with the big developer price tag. I guess I won't be sending it back in, signed.

 

[Bill4728]

The other thing that no one has really covered is that WKORV as a mandatory resort, when you want to sell you'll get most (if not all) your purchase price back. As a voluntary resort Nanea will likely be similar to Princeville where resale units sell for >10% of the developer prices.

So if you want a Starwood resort buy a resale at a mandatory resort.

 

[vacationtime1]

The other thing that no one has really covered is that WKORV as a mandatory resort, when you want to sell you'll get most (if not all) your purchase price back. As a voluntary resort Nanea will likely be similar to Princeville where resale units sell for >10% of the developer prices.

So if you want a Starwood resort buy a resale at a mandatory resort.

I think the OF units at Nanea will hold their prices (obviously not at developer price levels, but equal to resale prices at WKORV/N -- about $25K-$30K for the 2bd units). No one should trade Nanea or use its StarOptions for other properties because of the trade down factor, but resale owners will be able to reserve their OF units at the 12 month mark and that is of value.

I agree that the "Resort View" unit will plummet in price as soon as the resort sells out, owners start getting assigned parking lot views (at least during high season when there aren't exchangers to punish), and word spreads that ownership is not-as-advertised. I believe the resale price reductions have already started for those who purchased 81K HomeOption packages and now find they cannot easily reserve a one bedroom (resort view) unit.

 

[Ken555]

The other thing that no one has really covered is that WKORV as a mandatory resort, when you want to sell you'll get most (if not all) your purchase price back. As a voluntary resort Nanea will likely be similar to Princeville where resale units sell for >10% of the developer prices.

So if you want a Starwood resort buy a resale at a mandatory resort.

FYI, when I first researched SVN in 2005 WKORV was ~$35,000 on the resale market for a 2-bed and that was considered a good price. It's now ~$12-15k for that unit.

I can't think of many reasons to ever buy from the developer, but not all resale voluntary purchases are bad, as you imply.


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[DavidnRobin]

I think the OF units at Nanea will hold their prices (obviously not at developer price levels, but equal to resale prices at WKORV/N -- about $25K-$30K for the 2bd units). No one should trade Nanea or use its StarOptions for other properties because of the trade down factor, but resale owners will be able to reserve their OF units at the 12 month mark and that is of value.

I agree that the "Resort View" unit will plummet in price as soon as the resort sells out, owners start getting assigned parking lot views (at least during high season when there aren't exchangers to punish), and word spreads that ownership is not-as-advertised. I believe the resale price reductions have already started for those who purchased 81K HomeOption packages and now find they cannot easily reserve a one bedroom (resort view) unit.

You may hope so, but Nanea is a Voluntary resort - so it will not hold up price wise in the long term based off the resale history of V and M resorts. The base price will always be higher for a M resort because of the ability to use SOs upon resale.


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[bizaro86]

You may hope so, but Nanea is a Voluntary resort - so it will not hold up price wise in the long term based off the resale history of V and M resorts. The base price will always be higher for a M resort because of the ability of SOs upon resale.


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Is there a big price difference between the V and M phases at WSJ? That seems like the best resort to use for comparison here...

 

[DavidnRobin]

Is there a big price difference between the V and M phases at WSJ? That seems like the best resort to use for comparison here...

Not that simple for WSJ, but I guess you could compare 3Bd VGV to 3Bd BV for Plat+
How about compared to WPORV?
Or compare SVV M vs. V
Or WKV to SDO
Or WKV to WMH, etc.
All V resorts have taken a much larger hit once things are normalized - which takes a few years after active sales have finished.

 

[taterhed]

What's with the ridiculously low MF's being quoted for Nanea on some resale ads? They list a '2br' and MF's under $2k. Is this some trick of the 81k SO ownership 'claiming' they can reserve a 2br on some basis?

I copied one such ad from a TUG listing, but nobody replied.

 

[grrrah]

What's with the ridiculously low MF's being quoted for Nanea on some resale ads? They list a '2br' and MF's under $2k. Is this some trick of the 81k SO ownership 'claiming' they can reserve a 2br on some basis?

I copied one such ad from a TUG listing, but nobody replied.

Probably EOY?

 

[bizaro86]

Not that simple for WSJ, but I guess you could compare 3Bd VGV to 3Bd BV for Plat+
How about compared to WPORV?
Or compare SVV M vs. V
Or WKV to SDO
Or WKV to WMH, etc.
All V resorts have taken a much larger hit once things are normalized - which takes a few years after active sales have finished.

The problem is the only ones that are like for like are WSJ (sort of!) And SVV.

Kaui and Maui aren't equal value (see Marriott weeks). WKV is better than SDO (coming from an SDO owner). And Scottsdale is higher demand (spring training) than Palm Desert.

SVV M is worth maybe $2500 more than SVV (about 1500 vs -1000 or so). That seems like a reasonable price for staroption optionality.

I'm not sure about WSJ. I would guess nanea resort view ends up a small discount to WKORV island view, and Nanea oceanfront about the same as WKORVN oceanfront.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

FYI, when I first researched SVN in 2005 WKORV was ~$35,000 on the resale market for a 2-bed and that was considered a good price. It's now ~$12-15k for that unit.

I can't think of many reasons to ever buy from the developer, but not all resale voluntary purchases are bad, as you imply.


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At the North I'd say they are more like $10K on average and still drifting down

There is an optimist on RedWeek asking $25K though!

 

[taterhed]

Probably EOY?

Nope, was listed as EY, 2br. I'll look it up later.

 

[lizap]

A 2BR Platinum Kierland unit is a great Vistana trader, celica7101. The buy-in and MF's are less than Maui, and the resale value has held up well. Kierland's 148,100 StarOptions will work to get into Hawaii if you are somewhat flexible on travel dates. You will not get a guaranteed ocean view unless you use more SO's. You can guarantee an oceanfront unit (if it's available) if you use 95,700 for a 1BR, 81,000 for a studio, or 176,100 for a 2BR. Some other Tuggers like the Vistana Village mandatory timeshares for trading in the network. They are cheap to buy resale (some people give them away).

Besides getting into all the Vistana resorts, Kierland can be rented during baseball's spring training, or use your Interval account (included with MF's) to trade into two weeks elsewhere. I've used my Sheraton Desert Oasis weeks (split my 2BR into two 1BR units and deposited in Interval) for 2-4BR stays in fantastic resorts. WKORV, WKORVN, WPORV, Harborside, Hyatt Beaver Creek, Hyatt Sedona, Marriott Maui, Four Seasons Residence Club, Grand Luxxe Residence, etc.

When we bought our WKV Platinum five years ago, they were selling for 15-17k. I am aware of several that have sold for 11-12k since the first of the year. The listing price is often around 15k, but not many are actually selling for that today.

 

[jordathyspg]

Having gone thru the exercise ourselves just a few months ago, I’d say WKV 2BR Platinum sell very well currently at $15k. That’s not to say that they can’t be had for cheaper, but we spoke to a number of reputable brokers who advised that they move quickly at that price. We tried to get 5-6 on all the usual sites at 14-15 and they were always gone immediately. We ended up paying $16k because we were in a bit of a rush for 2018 spring break.

 

[vacationtime1]

Having gone thru the exercise ourselves just a few months ago, I’d say WKV 2BR Platinum sell very well currently at $15k. That’s not to say that they can’t be had for cheaper, but we spoke to a number of reputable brokers who advised that they move quickly at that price. We tried to get 5-6 on all the usual sites at 14-15 and they were always gone immediately. We ended up paying $16k because we were in a bit of a rush for 2018 spring break.

This is a useful data point; thank you. I have often thought that we see many outlier prices discussed on TUG and then believe that is the actual market price. Few have the patience to spend months, make multiple offers, and avoid ROFR in order to beat that market price.

 

[taterhed]

A quick side question....

Is WKV a good choice (purchase price and MF ratio) for a supplemental SO generator?
Looking for something with up to 95,700 (sic) SO's for use on Maui.

Would consider factors such as:
purchase price
MF price
ability to rent in lieu of use
desirable to occupy

Thanks.

IF there is a sticky-type thread with this info, please link me......sorry for hijack

 

[lizap]

Having gone thru the exercise ourselves just a few months ago, I’d say WKV 2BR Platinum sell very well currently at $15k. That’s not to say that they can’t be had for cheaper, but we spoke to a number of reputable brokers who advised that they move quickly at that price. We tried to get 5-6 on all the usual sites at 14-15 and they were always gone immediately. We ended up paying $16k because we were in a bit of a rush for 2018 spring break.

You have to remember the asking price is NOT the sale price. Are these outliers? Only time will tell. My guess is WKV has come down some in price. You can definitely find them in the 13K price range. You just have to be patient and willing to negotiate. Sellers are probably more willing to negotiate this time of the year. There are certain brokers who tend to have more sales in this price range (probably because of the lower price commission they charge).

 

[celica7101]

Update: put in a resale offer (accepted) for an annual WKORVN OFC 2BR unit.

Thanks to TUG for advising against the developer sale.

 

[taterhed]

Update: put in a resale offer (accepted) for an annual WKORVN OFC 2BR unit.

Thanks to TUG for advising against the developer sale.

Great news! GFY

Please remember to post the ROFR info and price when done.

Hope you have or can get a reservation made for 1st use year....

 

[PamMo]

Update: put in a resale offer (accepted) for an annual WKORVN OFC 2BR unit.

For clarification, WKORVN doesn't have OFC (oceanfront center) units. Did you mean oceanfront at WKORVN or oceanfront center in WKORV? There is a difference in price and view.

 

[celica7101]

For clarification, WKORVN doesn't have OFC (oceanfront center) units. Did you mean oceanfront at WKORVN or oceanfront center in WKORV? There is a difference in price and view.

Sorry you are correct, I just meant oceanfront.

 

[PamMo]

I meant to add congratulations on your resale purchase, too!

 

[taterhed]

Sorry you are correct, I just meant oceanfront.

Yeah I just skipped by the "N" there and saw Oceanfront Center. Still, good for you, North Oceanfront is nice too and about half the price. Still, don't forget to post your ROFR information when it comes through

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