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old 5 night travel packages values

kds4

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I think they are. Even though you can create the 5 night AC by redeeming points for 4 nights and getting the 5th night free, I see the value in the airline mile conversion. For travel packages the airline mile conversion rates are close to 1:1. Doing strictly an airline mile conversion by itself (not in a TP), the conversion rate can be as bad as 3:1.

I need to amend this post. I just double-checked the rates for a pure points to airline miles conversion. The ratio is much worse than my original post of up to 3:1. The conversion can be as bad as 10:1 (10 MRP to get 1 FF mile). Here are a couple of examples:

Jet Blue - 10,000 MRPs to get 1,000 True Blue Miles (10:1)
Air France/KLM - 10,000 MRPs to get 1,500 FF miles (6:1)
Southwest - 10,000 MRPs to get 2,000 Rapid Rewards Points (5:1)

The rates get better by redeeming for a larger block of miles (but not that much better to make them preferable to a travel package - unless you have no use for an AC).

Jet Blue - 140k MRP for 25k True Blue Miles (5.6:1)
Air France/KLM - 140k MRP for 35k FF miles (4:1)
Southwest - 140k MRP for 50k Rapid Rewards Points (2.8:1)

Because of the 20% discount, MRP conversions for United Airlines miles have the 'best' conversion ratio, but it is still not as good as nearly 1:1 through getting a travel package.

United - 112k MRP for 50k Mileage Plus Miles (2.2:1)

Of course, all of these rates are subject to (and likely will) change after 8/1/18. However, I would expect any change to not be a better conversion ratio. In fact, I expect the opposite result given the overall devaluation of TPs.

Marriott - Please prove me wrong... :doh:
 
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kds4

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We decided to get a 2nd "floating" 5 night TP Cat 7 (future Cat 5) next week. We will have 2 TP comes August where we have nothing planned for. We just want to stock up on airline miles because we don't see ourselves doing future TP.

Based on the favorable conversion ratio for airline miles, getting a TP for just the miles can make good sense. Depending on the MR policies after 8/1, you may be able to downgrade or even redeposit the certificates without losing the favorable conversion rates you got for the FF miles that were part of your TP.
 

dioxide45

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Based on the favorable conversion ratio for airline miles, getting a TP for just the miles can make good sense. Depending on the MR policies after 8/1, you may be able to downgrade or even redeposit the certificates without losing the favorable conversion rates you got for the FF miles that were part of your TP.
Generally, if you cancel the hotel portion of the TP, they convert your transaction to a straight points for miles and you end up paying those real bad conversion rates. They do this so people don't work around the system by getting a TP and then just cancelling the hotel portion later.
 

TXTortoise

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I’m sitting on about 800k+ points with another 110k coming next Jan with a Vail week conversion.

We primarily fly AA San Antonio to Hawaii, but United has better partners for booking foreign travel.

With no firm plans that I can book before next Aug I’m tempted to go all in and purchase 5-night cat 7-8 TPs and spreading the miles over AA and United. The upside is I guarantee the miles conversion value, but the future value of the hotel certificate remains somewhat unknown, for me. I would have to be sure and keep the airline points alive and recognize usage on both airlines is problematic for different reasons...and hope I can extend the certificates.

Is there any reason to sit on my miles given my situation and the recent changes?
 

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We decided to get a 2nd "floating" 5 night TP Cat 7 (future Cat 5) next week. We will have 2 TP comes August where we have nothing planned for. We just want to stock up on airline miles because we don't see ourselves doing future TP.
Good plan. I am not sure, however, if the Cat 7 will map to the new Cat 5. Some are saying it is likely they will convert to the equivalent number of points, which will introduce some variability, especially when peak and non peak pricing appear in 2019. If you have reliable information to clarify, I for one would be grateful. TIA.
 

kds4

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Generally, if you cancel the hotel portion of the TP, they convert your transaction to a straight points for miles and you end up paying those real bad conversion rates. They do this so people don't work around the system by getting a TP and then just cancelling the hotel portion later.

Agreed. It will really come down to what the policy/procedures turn out to be after 8/1/18 (if there is a change and if not whether a situation like this would get past the existing system).
 

kds4

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I’m sitting on about 800k+ points with another 110k coming next Jan with a Vail week conversion.

We primarily fly AA San Antonio to Hawaii, but United has better partners for booking foreign travel.

With no firm plans that I can book before next Aug I’m tempted to go all in and purchase 5-night cat 7-8 TPs and spreading the miles over AA and United. The upside is I guarantee the miles conversion value, but the future value of the hotel certificate remains somewhat unknown, for me. I would have to be sure and keep the airline points alive and recognize usage on both airlines is problematic for different reasons...and hope I can extend the certificates.

Is there any reason to sit on my miles given my situation and the recent changes?

That's hard to say. As you point out for yourself (and many folks I would suspect), there are a lot of moving parts to making this all work out. There are things we know and things we don't. I would start any decision making around the things we know (upcoming property changes in category, new 7 night TP costs, new FF amount reductions in TPs, etc.). Then you can factor in past practices regarding extensions or even try to extrapolate what the new 5 night TPs will look like based on the percentile changes in 7 nights.

For us, we expect to pull the trigger on 4 or 5 of the 5 night TPs based on what we know. We will be traveling through 2019. Our MRPs will not be worth more than they are now to get a travel package. We remain confident in our ability to extend an AC (which we will have to do to use 4 of 5 of them by 2020), if by no other means than upgrading or downgrading the category (although we lose any leverage we gained in making/booking the original stay with that AC prior to 8/1/18).
 

jeepie

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I’m sitting on about 800k+ points with another 110k coming next Jan with a Vail week conversion.

We primarily fly AA San Antonio to Hawaii, but United has better partners for booking foreign travel.

With no firm plans that I can book before next Aug I’m tempted to go all in and purchase 5-night cat 7-8 TPs and spreading the miles over AA and United. The upside is I guarantee the miles conversion value, but the future value of the hotel certificate remains somewhat unknown, for me. I would have to be sure and keep the airline points alive and recognize usage on both airlines is problematic for different reasons...and hope I can extend the certificates.

Is there any reason to sit on my miles given my situation and the recent changes?
That sounds wise to me. If I were in your position, I would certainly weigh the option of the Vail week conversion for 110k MR points vs. other uses of your week. Ymmv. Cheers.
 

VacationForever

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That sounds wise to me. If I were in your position, I would certainly weigh the option of the Vail week conversion for 110k MR points vs. other uses of your week. Ymmv. Cheers.
Agree. We had originally planned to convert one 2019 DSV I week and 1 Vistana week to hotel points. After seeing the TP conversion, we just deposited the Vistana week into II and elected DC points for that one DSV I week.
 

TXTortoise

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That sounds wise to me. If I were in your position, I would certainly weigh the option of the Vail week conversion for 110k MR points vs. other uses of your week. Ymmv. Cheers.

I struggled with that. There's none to minimal rental value for Week 15, fixed. We always used it to trade to Hawaii, but that got harder and I now have that covered. Mostly was trying to simplify my life for one year and with a maintenance fee of around $700, it wasn't a bad EOY conversion value.

That said, it did pull Boston Custom's House for October this year, so had me re-thinking that a bit. I've already requested the points conversion, but since they don't post until Oct-Jan, I may be able to revert. We'll see.
 

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TX Tortoise...I am in a similar position - sitting on some points needlessly. I think I am just going to do at least one 5 night conversion.

You mentioned AA and United, and those are my conversion locations of choice as well. I took a look at some flight locations and miles costs and the clear winner for me is AA, even considering the bump you get on a United conversion. I am looking to use a Cat5 conversion to help us get one Business class flight from ORD to Barcelona or Paris. AA costs much less points wise vs United when looking at possible dates.

KDS put together a nice analysis too - thanks.

The hardest moving part is figuring out what you can get with those miles, not how many you can get.
 

Wally3433

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Has Marriott stated how an existing hotel certificate will be converted? If I choose a 5 night TP with a Cat 9 Hotel Certificate, will that mean I could potentially use that to stay at a current Ritz Tier 4?

As of right now, you cannot use a TP5 to stay at Ritz.
 

VacationForever

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Has Marriott stated how an existing hotel certificate will be converted? If I choose a 5 night TP with a Cat 9 Hotel Certificate, will that mean I could potentially use that to stay at a current Ritz Tier 4?

As of right now, you cannot use a TP5 to stay at Ritz.
No. Marriott has indicated that there will be cat and points adjustments to existing hotel certificates. I am sure it will be fair both ways. For instance a Cat 7 cert right now is a 35K per night cert. After August, 35K per night will be a Cat 5. I fully expect a pre-Aug Cat 7 certificate to be exchanged for a new Cat 5 certificate post-Aug.

Current Cat 9 is a 45K per night certificate, it will map to a new category post Aug and as necessary may be refunded points if there is no 45K per night category and to drop that to whatever the new level is. I think the new Cat 6 is 50K. So likely the offer will be to pony up more points to go to Cat 6, or refund the points to drop to the new Cat 5.
 
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Wally3433

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Well. Rats. I guess that's why it took 2 years to come up with the new points program - to weed out snivelers like me.
 

Wally3433

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Since my usually well functioning analytically brain is starting to go into analysis paralysis, is the sweet spot for certificates Cat 7, 8 or 9...assuming max FF miles? Was leaning toward 7

I think the move would be to get a Cat 9, and hope it gets you a new Cat 7. The new hotel categories are set, so if you have a hotel in mind, you can check to see what it will be post August.
 

VacationForever

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One of the sites said Cat 8. For me, it is a matter of how much risk in that the certificates can be renewed or not, if you do not have travel plans in mind. If not, then I should really go for Cat 1-5, with less to lose.
 

bazzap

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Since my usually well functioning analytical brain is starting to go into analysis paralysis, is the sweet spot for certificates Cat 7, 8 or 9...assuming max FF miles? Was leaning toward 7

It is hard to say. Would be nice to grab a certificate that maps to the future Category 7, since future Category 8 is technically not being introduced until 2019. As such, you get 1 Category bump for free this year! The future Cat8 hotels are at the top in quality, luxury, location, etc. My guess would be that an current Cat 9 may map to future Cat7.

I'm spending the rest of my MR Pts prior to Aug 1 to get two vacation packages....both with max airline miles and 5 nights. I chose Cat8 since that is what I could afford on two packages. I'm hoping Marriott will map current Cat8 on the high end to future Cat6 (vs Cat5). I plan to try to make reservations prior to Aug 1...just in case.

Analysis paralysis for me also. Tried to walk my wife through this yesterday, and she couldn't follow.
 

kds4

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Hmm, I wonder if this is officially endorsed as available to all not just to MVC Owners or whether it is just a further example of agents not applying the requirement to be an Owner to qualify?

Considering that the 5 night packages do not appear anywhere on the Marriott Hotels website (where Non-Owner MR members can see the 7 night packages) but appear only on the MVCI website at the address shown in Post #3 that is accessible only to owners (because you have to be logged into your account to get there), I have to think they are not applying the guidelines.

Or once again, this just shows that we are not as special as MVCI owners as the salespeople would lead us to believe ... sigh. :eek:
 

kds4

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Hmm, I wonder if this is officially endorsed as available to all not just to MVC Owners or whether it is just a further example of agents not applying the requirement to be an Owner to qualify?

The more I thought about this article the more it bugs me ... along with the other pressing global issues of the day (famine, war, etc.). There seem to be fewer and fewer 'exclusive benefits' to being an MVCI owner. From the comments I see at the bottom of the article, the author all but admits that he got the package by 'scamming the system' and calling repeatedly until he found a CSR that would give him what he wanted (because he knew he wasn't entitled to it as a non-owner).

I left some nicely worded comments to the article pointing out that if he got the 5 night travel package, the fault lies with Marriott for not enforcing their own rules about who should be able to redeem them. I feel somewhat better and will now take my soapbox to do some laundry .... :D
 

SueDonJ

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It has always driven me bonkers that Marriott - the timeshare company and the hotel company - aren't careful enough about ensuring that the 5-Night Packages are redeemed only for the timeshare owners, and I don't have any love for the people like The Points Guy and others who publicize how and where to apply the most pressure to scam Marriott out of one. But when you think about it, the timeshare owners helped to bring this on themselves because some have always insisted on forcing the MI reps to process them despite all the info stating that MVCI should have been contacted. So for a number of years and for a number of reasons it hasn't effectively been an "exclusive" perk of MVW ownership anyway.

Learning now that SPG had standard 5-Night packages, I think that with the final steps of the merger taking place MI should just offer both 5- and 7-night packages to all of the Marriott Rewards members. If an exclusive MR perk is a driving force for MVW sales, let them negotiate something new and exciting with MI and then take responsibility for ensuring that it's offered to only those who are eligible.
 
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