What's the point of First Class?

[TravelTime]

I did not mean I use a combination of cash and points. I should have said cash or points. On United, I think everytime we have flown Business First internationally (and now it’s called Polaris), we have paid between 70K and 90K points. The nonstop flight from Taipei back to SFO is 80K Points each. I do not recall how many points it cost to fly from SFO to Taipei - it was either 25K or 30K per person - but I paid for economy using points and United upgraded us to Economy Plus for nothing extra without us even asking.

 

[VacationForever]

I did not mean I use a combination of cash and points. I should have said cash or points. On United, I think everytime we have flown Business First internationally (and now it’s called Polaris), we have paid between 70K and 90K points. The nonstop flight from Taipei back to SFO is 80K Points each. I do not recall how many points it cost to fly from SFO to Taipei - it was either 25K or 30K per person - but I paid for economy using points and United upgraded us to Economy Plus for nothing extra without us even asking.

My question how did you get a business class seat coming back for 80K? It is 180K each way pp.

 

[tugcccsp]

How did you get the option of "cash and points"? 80,000 each way is something I never see on United. I know you can "buy economy, upgrade with points and cash" and I tried that for my solo trip to Singapore in March of this year. I got my upgrade from US to Singapore but was stuck in Economy Plus from Singapore back to the US because they hardly ever let anyone upgrade that way. With my husband that option is not even on the table. He wants guaranteed Business/First Class otherwise he is not getting on a plane.

I personally value Delta miles at $0.01 each mile. Two years ago I booked round trip tickets to Turkey (SLC->CDG->IST->CDG->SLC), Business Class, for 80,000 miles for the round trip, plus a minimal amount of cash. I just returned from a round trip to Taiwan, China, and Japan, and used 80,000 miles for the round trip on Business Class. If you can plan far in advance, those kinds of deals are available. I haven’t found deals to that extent on short notice. Hawaii is a different matter. I haven’t found terrific deals for First Class to Maui. Miles are still better than cash.

 

[VacationForever]

I personally value Delta miles at $0.01 each mile. Two years ago I booked round trip tickets to Turkey (SLC->CDG->IST->CDG->SLC), Business Class, for 80,000 miles for the round trip, plus a minimal amount of cash. I just returned from a round trip to Taiwan, China, and Japan, and used 80,000 miles for the round trip on Business Class. If you can plan far in advance, those kinds of deals are available. I haven’t found deals to that extent on short notice. Hawaii is a different matter. I haven’t found terrific deals for First Class to Maui. Miles are still better than cash.

Our issue with flying is that we always go for the airlines/flights with the least number of stops. United is the only US airline that has direct flights to Singapore from SFO and LAX. Going with Delta requires fewer miles but one extra stop.

 

[rleigh]

When I weighed 275 and was a heavy drinker, I liked first a lot. Now that I weigh 190 and no longer drink, it's less attractive...

Ah, now see, if I drank a lot. But I have to be medicated when flying, so drinking is a no-no. Unless I want to REALLY fly, haha.
I did enjoy the extra room, but I had that at the class just above economy (can't think of the name.)

 

[rleigh]

It seemed like my wife and I were always getting seats next to a VERY large person that took up half of one of our seats so anytime we were offered a reasonable priced upgrade we jumped at it.

Yeah I've got "extra padding" which is why I started buying roomier seats.

 

[rleigh]

I used to fly enough to get automatically upgraded, and I appreciated it. Now that I don't fly as much and have to pay with cash or miles, I always consider the type of plane and length of flight to determine whether flying first or business class is worth it. On long transcontinental and overseas (especially overnight) flights, it is definitely worth upgrading to a plane and seat that lets me get my feet up. I'll admit to still feeling a childlike glee in changing into my complimentary airline slippers and jammies and crawling into bed for some undisturbed sleep while crisscrossing the Pacific. But for me, the shorter daytime flights inside the U.S. are rarely worth the upgrade fees to business/first.

You get slippers & jammies!? Now that might make it worth it, lol.

 

[rleigh]

I am very tall and try to find ways to economically fly Business Class and Delta-One on long flights. Delta Comfort is fine for shorter flights. I won’t pay outrageous prices. I will suffer some torture rather than pay outrageous prices.

One time I was able to get round trip tickets to Turkey from SLC in lay-down beds of Business Class for $800 worth of points ($0.01 per point = 80,000 Points Delta). The regular price was $3600.

Delta Comfort, that's the name of the in-between class that I couldn't think of. I took that on the way, and FC on the way back. Glad I didn't pay full price for FC. Not much difference.

 

[rleigh]

Thanks, this is very educational.

I think I'll stick with Economy or the next step up (Economy Plus, Delta Comfort, etc.) I'll just bring my own little towel and ask the attendant for hot water. ;-)

I'm glad I had the experience of FC, and a discounted one at that. It was worth it, too, since it was a 6-hour flight.

 

[clifffaith]

I have let it be known that I'll stay home before I travel economy overseas from Los Angeles, and Cliff is in agreement. In fact I have to keep an eye on him or he'll use up our points on FC for domestic flights. Now that we are winding down our business we aren't accumulating as many points, and since I can't walk very far these days I don't see Europe in our future ( the wheel chair is on its inaugural trip to Yellowstone this week).

 

[geist1223]

That sums it up for me as well. Not a big fan of flying, so flying FC would be like having a root canal with nice ambient music playing, versus economy being the root canal sans music. Unpleasant either way.

I don't know. I have slept through each of my root canals. Only local pain killer used. They have to put a block in the back of my jaw to hold my mouth open. I just fall asleep in dental chairs. So FC must be pretty ok by this analogy.

 

[TravelTime]

My question how did you get a business class seat coming back for 80K? It is 180K each way pp.

There are two “prices” for flight points. I always try to get the lower point value on United and its partners, whether we are flying economy or business/first class. We have been nonstop in business first to London, Instanbul (via Turkish Air), Sydney, Auckland and Taipei for 80K miles per person each way. When you log in to book in United’s website, there are always two point values for economy and two point values for business/first/Polaris. Many times the lower point value for business/first/Polaris is sold out. To go from SFO to Taiepei, my only options was 175K points for Polaris class so that I why I booked economy coming. I got lucky this time and 80K per person one way was available with just a few weeks notice to return from Taipei to SFO. Usually if I plan an international trip well in advance, I book my business/first class tickets as soon as the United points booking window opens. Do you book using United’s website or is it through the Chase website or some other website?

 

[TravelTime]

Thanks, this is very educational.

I think I'll stick with Economy or the next step up (Economy Plus, Delta Comfort, etc.) I'll just bring my own little towel and ask the attendant for hot water. ;-)

I'm glad I had the experience of FC, and a discounted one at that. It was worth it, too, since it was a 6-hour flight.

Where did you fly to/from on this trip? Was it the regular FC seat or the seat that turns into a bed? It is a completely different experience to fly on a long distance (10+ hour) nonstop flight in business/first class in a seat that turns into a bed. I can’t imagine that anyone who has done it would not rave about the experience.

 

[TravelTime]

Delta Comfort, that's the name of the in-between class that I couldn't think of. I took that on the way, and FC on the way back. Glad I didn't pay full price for FC. Not much difference.

First class for US flights is a waste of points or money. You get much more value per point using points for long distance international nonstop flights.

 

[VacationForever]

There are two “prices” for flight points. I always try to get the lower point value on United and its partners, whether we are flying economy or business/first class. We have been nonstop in business first to London, Instanbul (via Turkish Air), Sydney, Auckland and Taipei for 80K miles per person each way. When you log in to book in United’s website, there are always two point values for economy and two point values for business/first/Polaris. Many times the lower point value for business/first/Polaris is sold out. To go from SFO to Taiepei, my only options was 175K points for Polaris class so that I why I booked economy coming. I got lucky this time and 80K per person one way was available with just a few weeks notice to return from Taipei to SFO. Usually if I plan an international trip well in advance, I book my business/first class tickets as soon as the United points booking window opens. Do you book using United’s website or is it through the Chase website or some other website?

I always book the moment it is open, at 11 months prior to flight. I have never seen the "saver" rate for Polaris unless it includes additional stops or using code share partners.

 

[tugcccsp]

Delta has a daily direct flight to Maui from Salt Lake City during the winter. Even though it is a domestic flight, it has the lay-down beds in First Class. For the price, I think Delta Comfort is just fine going to Maui. I like the lay-down beds in First Class for the red-eye return flight. I just booked for next February, Delta Comfort going (6 Hrs 55 Min), and First Class returning (6 HRs 2 Min). It cost 180,000 Delta miles. That is quite expensive for only going one leg of the journey in First Class. I have become spoiled in my old age. It will be nice to have Non-Stop. I understand United may be better for other locations. Salt Lake City is a hub for Delta and there are non-stop flights for various long distance locations.

Delta is currently working jointly with the Salt Lake Airport Authority to build a totally new airport in Salt Lake City in the same place as its current location. It will be a $3 billion plus project. There has never been an international airport to this extent in the USA built in place at an active airport. It will be a totally new airport. After completion, Delta will add multiple international direct flights. Currently, there are only overseas direct flights to Amsterdam, London, and Paris.

 

[TravelTime]

I always book the moment it is open, at 11 months prior to flight. I have never seen the "saver" rate for Polaris unless it includes additional stops or using code share partners.

That’s very odd then. I always have the option when available. I have only booked first class for nonstop international flights. I never have to pick a connecting flight where non stop from SFO exists.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

For me the big difference is revenue. Last weekend I traveled to Boston from Seattle on Alaska. Outbound I was on FC, return I was in Premium Class. Yesterday I flew from Seattle to New Orleans for another meeting - FC on that flight.

The two first class trips were productive. I was able to bill about three hours of time on the flight to Boston, and about two hours on the New Orleans flight. That's because in FC there is enough room to use a computer productively. The return flight from Boston to Seattle was 4.5 hours of dead time,

I fly Alaska enough to be an upper level elite (but not super elite). If I'm not in coach, my preferred seating is exit row, window seat. I usually can get work done in that location. In fact I will usually take any window or aisle exit row seat over any seat in their Premium Class.

 

[TravelTime]

I see a one way on United Polaris for 70,000 points. It is called Business Saver and it is for this Sunday. If I would have seen that when I booked this trip, we could have saved 10K points per person plus hotel rooms and pet sitting fee for 2 extra days. Instead, we are coming back 2 days later because I did not see this option.

• Flight option 4
  Departing9:50 amTaipei, TW (TPE - Taoyuan)
  Arriving6:40 amSan Francisco, CA, US (SFO)
  Number of stops
  Nonstop
  11h 50m
  • Show flightDetails
  • Seats
  Saver Award
  35kmiles
  +$83.41
  fare for Economy (lowest)
  Saver Award
  70kmiles
  +$83.41
  fare for Business Saver Award
  175kmiles
  +$83.41
  fare for Business Everyday Award
  Fare for First Saver Award
  Not available
  Fare for First Everyday Award
  Not available

 

[VacationForever]

I see a one way on United Polaris for 70,000 points. It is called Business Saver and it is for this Sunday. If I would have seen that when I booked this trip, we could have saved 10K points per person plus hotel rooms and pet sitting fee for 2 extra days. Instead, we are coming back 2 days later because I did not see this option.

• Flight option 4
  Departing9:50 amTaipei, TW (TPE - Taoyuan)
  Arriving6:40 amSan Francisco, CA, US (SFO)
  Number of stops
  Nonstop
  11h 50m
  • Show flightDetails
  • Seats
  Saver Award
  35kmiles
  +$83.41
  fare for Economy (lowest)
  Saver Award
  70kmiles
  +$83.41
  fare for Business Saver Award
  175kmiles
  +$83.41
  fare for Business Everyday Award
  Fare for First Saver Award
  Not available
  Fare for First Everyday Award
  Not available

Maybe it is available for last minute departure?

 

[bnoble]

For me the big difference is revenue.

This is the main reason I ditched my 15" MacBook Pro in favor of a 12" MacBook. Huge improvement in airplane productivity.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

This is the main reason I ditched my 15" MacBook Pro in favor of a 12" MacBook. Huge improvement in airplane productivity.

same for me. I went to a Lenova Yoga. In FC, I switch it to tablet mode and my tray will accommodate both the Yoga and food tray (I have to put the food tray so the long dimension points toward me. But it allows me to continue working while I'm eating, and if I have a numerical model running I can keep the model running during food service, instead of having the computer go into sleep mode.

If I have billable work to complete, there has to be a huge difference in fares for FC to not be cost effective for me. Less of an issue when I'm traveling on vacation.

 

[TravelTime]

Maybe it is available for last minute departure?

No, I am always able to get the lower points. It usually varies between 70K and 90K one way. I usually book as soon as the booking window opens. We have flown Business First (now Polaris) using the business saver points many times over the past 5 years nonstop to London, Frankfurt, Istanbul, Sydney and Auckland and now Taipei. It is not available everyday so I usually have to be a bit flexible in the travel dates to get the lower mileage. Like on this trip, we had to leave on a Friday and return on a Tuesday, except yesterday I saw some Sunday Polaris seats at an even lower point value than we are using (70K one way nonstop Polaris class Taipei to SFO). This is the first time I have been able to get Business First/Polaris class with business "saver" points at the last minute. But like I said, it was not available coming over and if we would have flown coming over on a Saturday, Economy would have cost 80K points.

I am not sure why I can get it and it is not available to you. That is very strange. Do you even see the Business Saver option when you log in?

We have the United Chase card and we spend a lot on it every year. I wonder if that has something do with it? Do you have a United Chase card?

Can you do a search for Taipei to SFO and see if you are able to see the Business Saver points I am seeing? Look on different days because it changes but you should be able to see at least something in the Business Value column.

One more thing, sometimes they do not open up Business First/Polaris until 1-2 weeks after the booking window opens. But they do open it up at least 10.5 months in advance. When the booking window opens, I check daily until the Business Saver seats show up.

With economy, I can always get economy saver seats at any time. I do not even worry about getting the economy saver anymore. I was even able to book economy saver on full flights over Thanksgiving last year to go to Cabo, although we did need to connect since it was so last minute.

 

[VacationForever]

No, I am always able to get the lower points. It usually varies between 70K and 90K one way. I usually book as soon as the booking window opens. We have flown Business First (now Polaris) using the business saver points many times over the past 5 years nonstop to London, Frankfurt, Istanbul, Sydney and Auckland and now Taipei. It is not available everyday so I usually have to be a bit flexible in the travel dates to get the lower mileage. Like on this trip, we had to leave on a Friday and return on a Tuesday, except yesterday I saw some Sunday Polaris seats at an even lower point value than we are using (70K one way nonstop Polaris class Taipei to SFO). This is the first time I have been able to get Business First/Polaris class with business "saver" points at the last minute. But like I said, it was not available coming over and if we would have flown coming over on a Saturday, Economy would have cost 80K points.

I am not sure why I can get it and it is not available to you. That is very strange. Do you even see the Business Saver option when you log in?

We have the United Chase card and we spend a lot on it every year. I wonder if that has something do with it? Do you have a United Chase card?

Can you do a search for Taipei to SFO and see if you are able to see the Business Saver points I am seeing? Look on different days because it changes but you should be able to see at least something in the Business Value column.

One more thing, sometimes they do not open up Business First/Polaris until 1-2 weeks after the booking window opens. But they do open it up at least 10.5 months in advance. When the booking window opens, I check daily until the Business Saver seats show up.

With economy, I can always get economy saver seats at any time. I do not even worry about getting the economy saver anymore. I was even able to book economy saver on full flights over Thanksgiving last year to go to Cabo, although we did need to connect since it was so last minute.

I have United Silver (membership matching because of Marriott Platinum) and United Chase CC. The only thing that I can think of is that I have one more leg beyond either SFO or LAX. I think that may be the reason why Business Saver is not available to us.

 

[MOXJO7282]

It used to be so easy to get 1st class saver awards on the lay-flat seats. We did this 3 times 2004, 2007 and the last time 2010 for my family of four. Then after the recession airlines got greedy and realized they could push award seat seekers to the lesser 1st class planes by the way they release the award seats and make more money on the premium planes/seats so that is what they did.

They used to release all the award seats or at least the majority so that we could get the 4 1st class savers for a family of 4 at one time. Then they started releasing in drips and drabs so if you needed 4 seats together you needed to mix and match, maybe get 2 savers and 1 full point and maybe buy 1 seat or take the chance that you can somehow get the savers down the road on the same flight. Total BS.

When you could get the saver seats that was a fantastic value for a much more enjoyable flight. I always say when you fly in a nice 1st class cabin your vacation starts as soon you get on the plane. What's better than as soon as you get on the plane a champagne and OJ in a relaxing chair with very good audio options. The food, other than the ice cream sundaes, is never that good but we bring something we like aboard because you have the room to eat and I still believe that but now I have to pay a bigger points premium to do it.

When we were headed to Maui next month the best i could do was 2 savers and 1 full point FF seat and 1 paid to get the lay-flats. I still thought it was worth it. Now we're headed to STT instead, 1st class also because for that trip there were 1st class savers on most of the connections so we went for it.