Is the new $30ppd at Vidanta fair - an owners perspective

[bizaro86]

Vidata & SFX have a long term " unique " relationship .

Perhaps the $299 goes to Vidanta ? So it could be a prepaid resort fee ?

I think that's very likely. Vidanta doesn't want to trade SFX for a timeshare stay somewhere else (what would they do with it?!?) but they do like money. By charging an upcharge, SFX can pay Vidanta for the inventory in cash.

 

[TheHappyWanderer]

Does anyone know if Riviera Maya Grand Luxxe exchangers will be able to use the new lazy river when it opens?

 

[Eric B]

We probably won’t know for sure until it opens. The speculation I heard from the sales staff on my last trip was that it would be open to exchangers as well as owners at the Jungle Luxxe (DeLuxxe) level and up. Also that it will open ~September.

 

[Eric B]

Vidata & SFX have a long term " unique " relationship .

Perhaps the $299 goes to Vidanta ? So it could be a prepaid resort fee ?

Vidanta has a long term contractual relationship with SFX to manage the privilege weeks for owners, so I don’t see that changing anytime soon. With those, an owner pays SFX an amount a bit higher than a usage fee in order to reserve a holiday week. I expect that part of that fee flows back to Vidanta.

Similarly, ICE has a relationship with Vidanta to operate the Vida Lifestyle travel shop (corresponding to RCI cruises, etc., also run by ICE). Owners get a certain number of Lifestyle weeks they can use to come back in the off season for the cost of a usage fee, which is also no doubt allocated by the contract.

Interestingly, ICE also operates the SFX travel store, through which you can reserve some of the Vidanta resorts without exchanging, up to the Jungle Luxxe in RM and the Grand Luxxe suite or studio loft level in NV. The cost is much higher, but reduced to around the same by using SFX savings dollars.

I’ve seen posts mentioning use of ICE rewards to get to Vidanta, but no details on what program that’s associated with.

The other special relationships I’m aware of are with Registry Collection and Elite Alliance for exchanging. Haven’t tried Elite Alliance at this point, but I’ve used Registry and posted about how that works in a different thread.

 

[RLS50]

so having a resort fee recoups some of their expenses and contributes to profits while helping to screen out folks that won't be likely to pay more to go there

So this move by Vidanta is going to screen out people who can't afford their property? I respectfully disagree with that logic, although my comments aren't directed at you specifically since this idea has been mentioned by others previously. So I am speaking to the idea, not you or anyone individually.

Sure, maybe the new (much) higher fees could screen out someone with an income not capable of buying Vidanta. But it also turns off Marriott and Westin type owners who certainly have the money to purchase with Vidanta, but won't even go there to take a "test drive" of the property because the fees (along with the additional restrictions) seem eggregious. For some of us it's principle, not the actual money per se.

Our original Accomodation Certificate purchase of $289 was going to put us into a 1BR Grand Luxxe Jungle and give us the opportunity to check out changes to the property after many years. It was also going to put us in the middle of a construction zone (many negative social media reviews about this experience), with a lazy river that isn't completed, a long way from the pools and a beach (full of rocks/coral obstacles entering the water), in a property with many directional signs missing (also mentioned negatively by many guests on social media reviews) and sometimes spotty / unreliable onsite transportation. And as nice as and spacious as these 1BR units seem to be from the photos, it is my understanding they don't have a full size refrigerator or a washer / dryer inside the unit? If that is the case in those 1BR units, to me that is just a fancy hotel room / studio that is still missing the critical functionality / practicality of a true 1BR.

And then on top of those already not ideal circumstances with the Grand Luxxe Jungle units, I was being asked to pay them an extra $420 for 2 people to use only some of the pools and be barred from certain restaurants? And if I wanted to avoid part of those additional costs and restrictions I needed to negotiate during a sales presentation that might take 4+ hours of my time? 1/2 to 3/4 of a day?

Why bother with all that when I can (and did) buy a Getaway to WLR in a true 1BR (in every sense of the word) for $867?

So in the case of people like myself, and speaking for the 1BR Grand Luxxe Jungle suites specifically, I don't feel like Vidanta was doing us a favor allowing us to visit their property for $289. Yes I was getting in cheaper, but I was also sacrificing some creature comforts to do so while they were trying to complete construction on that phase, I was still going to spend my money at their restaurants and maybe at their shows, and I wasn't getting a super deluxe 2BR or 3BR unit.

I get the fact that Vidanta is trying to correct problems they created for themselves and their owners. But their "fix" seems to be not very well planned and thought out either. This current solution seems penny wise and pound foolish.

But as others have correctly stated Supply and Demand will ultimately determine the outcome. My position could represent the minority.

 

[mikenk]

So this move by Vidanta is going to screen out people who can't afford their property? I respectfully disagree with that logic, although my comments aren't directed at you specifically since this idea has been mentioned by others previously. So I am speaking to the idea, not you or anyone individually.

Sure, maybe the new (much) higher fees could screen out someone with an income not capable of buying Vidanta. But it also turns off Marriott and Westin type owners who certainly have the money to purchase with Vidanta, but won't even go there to take a "test drive" of the property because the fees (along with the additional restrictions) seem eggregious. For some of us it's principle, not the actual money per se.

Our original Accomodation Certificate purchase of $289 was going to put us into a 1BR Grand Luxxe Jungle and give us the opportunity to check out changes to the property after many years. It was also going to put us in the middle of a construction zone (many negative social media reviews about this experience), with a lazy river that isn't completed, a long way from the pools and a beach (full of rocks/coral obstacles entering the water), in a property with many directional signs missing (also mentioned negatively by many guests on social media reviews) and sometimes spotty / unreliable onsite transportation. And as nice as and spacious as these 1BR units seem to be from the photos, it is my understanding they don't have a full size refrigerator or a washer / dryer inside the unit? If that is the case in those 1BR units, to me that is just a fancy hotel room / studio that is still missing the critical functionality / practicality of a true 1BR.

And then on top of those already not ideal circumstances with the Grand Luxxe Jungle units, I was being asked to pay them an extra $420 for 2 people to use only some of the pools and be barred from certain restaurants? And if I wanted to avoid part of those additional costs and restrictions I needed to negotiate during a sales presentation that might take 4+ hours of my time? 1/2 to 3/4 of a day?

Why bother with all that when I can (and did) buy a Getaway to WLR in a true 1BR (in every sense of the word) for $867?

So in the case of people like myself, and speaking for the 1BR Grand Luxxe Jungle suites specifically, I don't feel like Vidanta was doing us a favor allowing us to visit their property for $289. Yes I was getting in cheaper, but I was also sacrificing some creature comforts to do so while they were trying to complete construction on that phase, I was still going to spend my money at their restaurants and maybe at their shows, and I wasn't getting a super deluxe 2BR or 3BR unit.

I get the fact that Vidanta is trying to correct problems they created for themselves and their owners. But their "fix" seems to be not very well planned and thought out either. This current solution seems penny wise and pound foolish.

But as others have correctly stated Supply and Demand will ultimately determine the outcome. My position could represent the minority.

You make good points - particularly around the situation with the Jungle Luxxe. I am not familiar with that but it appears to have been and still being handled very poorly.

I also appreciate the issue with other owners of high end resorts being treated unfairly with this surcharge. Actually the original promise to us owners when we bought in early is that GL would only trade with high end resorts and as owners we would have some exclusivity to that trading power - didn't happen as Vidanta routinely deposits inventory everywhere. That changes the equation and drops the trading power of the GL. They brought this on themselves and now are trying to fix partly with this surcharge - which will backfire to some degree.

One thing I have observed about Vidanta management. They are willing to take chances with their choices - but also willing to change quickly. Time will tell.

Mike

 

[Eric B]

So this move by Vidanta is going to screen out people who can't afford their property? I respectfully disagree with that logic, although my comments aren't directed at you specifically since this idea has been mentioned by others previously. So I am speaking to the idea, not you or anyone individually.

Sure, maybe the new (much) higher fees could screen out someone with an income not capable of buying Vidanta. But it also turns off Marriott and Westin type owners who certainly have the money to purchase with Vidanta, but won't even go there to take a "test drive" of the property because the fees (along with the additional restrictions) seem eggregious. For some of us it's principle, not the actual money per se.

Our original Accomodation Certificate purchase of $289 was going to put us into a 1BR Grand Luxxe Jungle and give us the opportunity to check out changes to the property after many years. It was also going to put us in the middle of a construction zone (many negative social media reviews about this experience), with a lazy river that isn't completed, a long way from the pools and a beach (full of rocks/coral obstacles entering the water), in a property with many directional signs missing (also mentioned negatively by many guests on social media reviews) and sometimes spotty / unreliable onsite transportation. And as nice as and spacious as these 1BR units seem to be from the photos, it is my understanding they don't have a full size refrigerator or a washer / dryer inside the unit? If that is the case in those 1BR units, to me that is just a fancy hotel room / studio that is still missing the critical functionality / practicality of a true 1BR.

And then on top of those already not ideal circumstances with the Grand Luxxe Jungle units, I was being asked to pay them an extra $420 for 2 people to use only some of the pools and be barred from certain restaurants? And if I wanted to avoid part of those additional costs and restrictions I needed to negotiate during a sales presentation that might take 4+ hours of my time? 1/2 to 3/4 of a day?

Why bother with all that when I can (and did) buy a Getaway to WLR in a true 1BR (in every sense of the word) for $867?

So in the case of people like myself, and speaking for the 1BR Grand Luxxe Jungle suites specifically, I don't feel like Vidanta was doing us a favor allowing us to visit their property for $289. Yes I was getting in cheaper, but I was also sacrificing some creature comforts to do so while they were trying to complete construction on that phase, I was still going to spend my money at their restaurants and maybe at their shows, and I wasn't getting a super deluxe 2BR or 3BR unit.

I get the fact that Vidanta is trying to correct problems they created for themselves and their owners. But their "fix" seems to be not very well planned and thought out either. This current solution seems penny wise and pound foolish.

But as others have correctly stated Supply and Demand will ultimately determine the outcome. My position could represent the minority.

No offense taken at all; the idea was just my speculation on why they might be doing what they’re doing. The potential reaction by Marriott or Westin owners is a possible unintended consequence that they may or may not have considered, but will have to live with in either case.

You’re interpretation of the lack of a washer/dryer and full size refrigerator is correct; the Jungle Luxxe units have two under counter refrigerators next to each other. I stayed in one in January (Jungle Luxxe unit, not refrigerator that is).

 

[pittle]

Wow miss a day on TUG while doing a volunteer day and miss a great conversation! Some great points have been made.

I am also an owner of 2 GL units and the MF are right at $1800 per week. We also have PBEB that the MF are about 1/3 of that and used it to exchange into our 2 weeks at Grand Bliss through SFX, so we knew we were getting a great deal - basically 2 weeks for the price of 1 including the exchange fee and $75 per week fee. I made this reservation in February 2017 for April 20-May 4, 2018. At that time, all GB guests and owners had access to the Beach Club and all the restaurants at the resort. When we arrived, we were immediately told when checking in that they had recently changed the policy and we could not use the Beach Club or go to Burger Custom Made because we had exchanged in.

If you made the reservations through II or RCI and it stated the $75 fee or the $11 pp/pd day when you made your reservation, they honored that - not the new $30 pp/pd fee, so why not the amenities that you were expecting? If you know going in what you are expected to pay or facilities that you can use, that is your choice to make the reservation. They should not change mid-stream.

We declined to take the tour - all they offered us was 10% of what we spent onsite and a member band. We said no thank you and chose not to spend any money there. We did go to Member Services and got our GL photo id badges, but did not get new wristbands. We were told that they were 100% full and if it was 80% or so the next week, they would consider it. Well, I took photos on our last day and there were fewer people there than there were 3 weeks after Hurricane Wilma when we were there in 2005. This was long before GB, and GL were even dreamed of and the GM was not even open those weeks because of storm damage. All guests were assigned to the 11-20 MP buildings because they suffered less damage.

I did notice that our reservation mas marked Promotional Week when we got the final reservation reminder 2 weeks before we were to arrive, so that must be a developer week. BUT, if by chance it really is an EXCHANGE week where the owner paid the MF, then Mayan World is really taking advantage of exchangers. However, I cannot imagine paying the $1800 and exchanging it when we all have the no pay unless you go feature. You could use your $1800 for an extra vacation or VRBO.


Welcome back Mike - I've been wondering where you were - I thought about sending you a PM to make sure you and B were OK.

 

[Eric B]

You make good points - particularly around the situation with the Jungle Luxxe. I am not familiar with that but it appears to have been and still being handled very poorly.

I also appreciate the issue with other owners of high end resorts being treated unfairly with this surcharge. Actually the original promise to us owners when we bought in early is that GL would only trade with high end resorts and as owners we would have some exclusivity to that trading power - didn't happen as Vidanta routinely deposits inventory everywhere. That changes the equation and drops the trading power of the GL. They brought this on themselves and now are trying to fix partly with this surcharge - which will backfire to some degree.

One thing I have observed about Vidanta management. They are willing to take chances with their choices - but also willing to change quickly. Time will tell.

Mike

As far as the trading with only high end resorts and trading power goes, the changes in Registry address that to a certain extent. Things seem to be creeping to a higher cutoff with the introduction of the Estates as a level above Grand Luxxe and Deluxxe as a level between it and Grand Bliss.

 

[hurnik]

You might check the availability of GL in RCI again; they did a bulk deposit of GL NV units recently that you don’t have to be platinum to get; RB71. No idea if Hilton has any screen, of course.

Also, the fee through SFX is still at $75, though that could always change.

I only have access to RCI via HGVC, so there's no TPU's or RCI Platinum, etc.
HGVC RCI does not have access to Grand Luxxe. They only recently added Grand Bliss a few years ago.
It's not even listed in the Resort Directory listing for Hilton.

But that's an HGVC/RCI issue, not necessarily RCI directly, just that if I were to book GL, my only options via exchanging would be via SFX directly, or using HGVC's affiliation with SFX (you have to call Hilton to do this), but it's like 14,400 points or something obscene like that to get a GL (at my MF costs, that would put it at $2692 plus HGVC fees to book). Cheaper to deposit a 2400 or 3400 point week unit with SFX and pay the $300 upgrade ($299 if one is being technical) plus the $149 exchange fee (I'm diamond lifetime with SFX).

I do wish I had II access, but that's another story. LOL!

 

[rpennisi]

Ron, like Eric, I missed your point about buyers remorse; can you restate?

Mike

I didn't mean to insult you or Eric with my comment of buyers remorse. But both of you wrote about being happy that exchangers would be charged higher resort fees for GL and GB. I think owners of GL, etc should get the best units, times of usage and views. But these fees do nothing to help owners, they only line the pockets of Vidanta whether it be the sales side or hotel side. Empty suites will not bring in any money to Vidanta with many saying they will not exchange because to the increased fees, especially exorbitant for families staying for a week or more. Perhaps a better phrase would have been, exchangers envy. I have exchangers remorse now that these $30 pp/pd fees are in effect.
Ron

 

[Eric B]

My view on it is more that I believe if the relative income between the sales and hotel sides of the House were better balanced with the services they provide to the customers, the overall performance of the organization would improve. I actually like hearing how other folks have learned how to work with the systems as they are operated because it opens other options I can consider using. That being said, we should recognize that the motivation for making the inexpensive exchanges available is gain potential sales customers. In the long run, that may not be a sustainable business model if people decline sales presentations, of course, or decline to purchase. I do like the resorts and want them to continue providing enjoyable vacations for the long term, so I support the idea of the resort fees, particularly with a 25% credit towards room charges for dining, etc., and the option to have them halved for doing a sales presentation. They’ve intelligently incentivized the behaviors they want (spending there and potentially buying/upgrading) in a way that seems to better match their costs of performance on the hotel side with the costs to the customer.

The end result is a spectrum of costs I can choose from for a week there in a great resort. Some folks will get a better deal while others won’t. The only way what someone else pays effects my experience and enjoyment is if it’s priced too low overall and gets more crowded than the facilities can serve. I don’t think that’s an issue at this point.

The one thing that is important to me, however, is transparency. I don’t think it’s fair to spring facility limitations on an exchange when someone checks in, or to change the fees after an exchange is made. You could call me a capitalist, but I think the market should be allowed to work.

One other thought for how the changes have effected me; the higher resort fees were added about the same time as they started depositing GL in RCI. As a result, I can exchange there more easily with other TSs I couldn’t use to get into GL because they are in RCI points. Overall the changes have been beneficial to me; it would cost more for me to go to the GB and lower Vidanta tiers at this point on an exchange, but I recognize what options I’ve got.

 

[mikenk]

I didn't mean to insult you or Eric with my comment of buyers remorse. But both of you wrote about being happy that exchangers would be charged higher resort fees for GL and GB. I think owners of GL, etc should get the best units, times of usage and views. But these fees do nothing to help owners, they only line the pockets of Vidanta whether it be the sales side or hotel side. Empty suites will not bring in any money to Vidanta with many saying they will not exchange because to the increased fees, especially exorbitant for families staying for a week or more. Perhaps a better phrase would have been, exchangers envy. I have exchangers remorse now that these $30 pp/pd fees are in effect.
Ron

Ok, I understand your point; the term buyers remorse threw me as that was the furthest from my mind. Here are the things that bother me when Vidanta routinely dumps units into the marketplace to be redeemed at low exchanges rates:
- It simply isn't fair to owners as it cheapens ownership to those that Vidanta should value the most. From personal experience, owners do NOT always get better room assignments than exchangers. Reservations isn't that organized to even make that happen. I will admit my blood pressure rises whenever I see an exchanger with a better room and for less money.
- It cheapens the Vidanta brand which means lower trading power and lower ownership value for renting and/or selling - which does impact me as an owner.

You also said that added fees do not help owners but just lines the pockets of Vidanta ownership. Recognize that the Vidanta business model is to continually improve and expand the resort; that is done with the incoming cash flow. That does affect owners as less cash means less expansion.

While I do not think the surcharge is the best solution as it is not fair to those folks with similar priced units wanting to trade in. I believe there are people at Vidanta who with a little innovative thinking could:
- Make sure owners don't pay more with equal or less amenities than exchangers.
- Make sure exchangers and hotel guests are getting good value against competition.
- Create a way that high end resorts can reciprocate fairly - I don't even consider trying to trade my membership with all my amenities.
- Keep high occupancy through out the year in the resorts.

Mike

 

[bizaro86]

Ok, I understand your point; the term buyers remorse threw me as that was the furthest from my mind. Here are the things that bother me when Vidanta routinely dumps units into the marketplace to be redeemed at low exchanges rates:
- It simply isn't fair to owners as it cheapens ownership to those that Vidanta should value the most. From personal experience, owners do NOT always get better room assignments than exchangers. Reservations isn't that organized to even make that happen. I will admit my blood pressure rises whenever I see an exchanger with a better room and for less money.
- It cheapens the Vidanta brand which means lower trading power and lower ownership value for renting and/or selling - which does impact me as an owner.

You also said that added fees do not help owners but just lines the pockets of Vidanta ownership. Recognize that the Vidanta business model is to continually improve and expand the resort; that is done with the incoming cash flow. That does affect owners as less cash means less expansion.

While I do not think the surcharge is the best solution as it is not fair to those folks with similar priced units wanting to trade in. I believe there are people at Vidanta who with a little innovative thinking could:
- Make sure owners don't pay more with equal or less amenities than exchangers.
- Make sure exchangers and hotel guests are getting good value against competition.
- Create a way that high end resorts can reciprocate fairly - I don't even consider trying to trade my membership with all my amenities.
- Keep high occupancy through out the year in the resorts.

Mike

The logical thing for Vidanta to do would be rent out their excess inventory for cash. If there was no more exchange availability from Vidanta, the new scarcity would improve trading power, effectively making it more expensive for others to trade in. I have traded a 1 bedroom unit for a 4 bedroom Grande Luxxe through II multiple times. That isn't anywhere close to a fair trade, and its only available because Vidanta floods the market with developer inventory.

That would also allow them to eliminate most of the extra fees for exchangers - if they had received a usage fee from a member for each exchange, they would be covered for hotel side revenue. That would also probably bring them higher end guests, as if they limited supply they would naturally get people who already own higher end timeshares.

I'm not sure how much they'd be able to charge for cash rentals during the offseason, but if they charged enough that would make it easier to sell those people on buying. "You're paying $225/night for a 1 bedroom right now, but for only a $140/night usage fee, you can get a 2 bedroom!" Or whatever.

 

[mikenk]

Interesting idea. If they stopped releasing inventory to the exchange companies but instead rented "hotel style" for cash, they could logically get as much cash flow, and allow exchanges to be true exchanges at equal value. It would also logically bring the right type of people for the sales sharks to attack.

Mike

 

[dioxide45]

The logical thing for Vidanta to do would be rent out their excess inventory for cash.

They wouldn't be able to fill units. Empty units means tour flow is low and volume through onside food and beverage sales is also low. If they could rent these out for cash at higher prices, don't you think they would? The problem is that they build for peak season and dump low season inventory in to exchange. They really have no other way to fill units in the off season. We will have to wait and see if the increased resort fee actually impacts occupancy.

 

[Eric B]

The bigger impact that there hoping for is the Cirque Park. Time will tell for that, too...,

 

[bizaro86]

They wouldn't be able to fill units. Empty units means tour flow is low and volume through onside food and beverage sales is also low. If they could rent these out for cash at higher prices, don't you think they would? The problem is that they build for peak season and dump low season inventory in to exchange. They really have no other way to fill units in the off season. We will have to wait and see if the increased resort fee actually impacts occupancy.

They could rent them, but maybe not at a price that would be conducive to sales. I suppose from their perspective putting them in the exchsnge companies is renting them for a low price with the price being opaque to the end user.

 

[Quadmaniac]

Over the years, exchangers have correctly observed that ownership at Vidanta actually makes no sense as it is easy to trade in cheaply; Vidanta leadership has assured that by consistently releasing inventory to exchange companies to maintain occupancy. Many of us owners do have amenities like free golf that does help a bit - but the bottom line is we owners are spending upwards of $1900 to 2000 a week where many exchangers are using a $800 or so MF coupled with $200 or so exchange fee for the same week. That has never seemed fair to me at all; I have made it very clear at every update meeting I attend that I will never spend another penny until they fix that inequality.

This is not unique to Vidanta by any stretch. Routinely people trade inexpensive units into higher end resorts. Prime example is trading into Hawaii, most times people are using studios or 1 br that will cost them 800-900 trade fees into a resort that has MF of 2100-2500. I had just returned from Westin Nanea which has MF of $2800(?) via an exchange that end up costing about $900-1000. This is all due the inequity the exchange companies put into their algorithms which has been a benefit to exchangers. Not sure that it is Vidanta problem they can do anything about other than what they are doing by charging a surcharge.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

The bigger impact that there hoping for is the Cirque Park. Time will tell for that, too...,

Agree -


1) The "build for peak snowbird season" seems to works for Vidanta & other Mexican resorts because building costs are in pesos and MF income is in USD $ .

2)The Cirque Park should increase summer usage & ownership by the Mexican National demographic . This should help balance occupancy levels at NV .

3) My guess is that most Timeshares "pay" RCI & II for their listing services via developer deposits . The developer likely gets some income when an exchange is booked .
This is speculation on my part . If anyone has knowledge from serving on an independent HOA please fill in some details.

4) IMO - Vidanta puts the same "week" in more than one exchange system . They then manage inventory the way airline & hotels that list on multiple platforms operate .
Vidanta also has to make sure enough inventory is there for owner ARP dates . ( one year & six months prior to Feb / peak snowbird month )

 

[rpennisi]

They wouldn't be able to fill units. Empty units means tour flow is low and volume through onside food and beverage sales is also low. If they could rent these out for cash at higher prices, don't you think they would? The problem is that they build for peak season and dump low season inventory in to exchange. They really have no other way to fill units in the off season. We will have to wait and see if the increased resort fee actually impacts occupancy.

I have to agree with you. We have exchanged into GL units in Augusts for NV and RM for the experience of staying in those units. But the hot muggy weather and the attack of mosquitos has cured me of trading in the hot wet months. However, next Jan and Feb we will stay in GL NV and RM GB, according to my paper work for the lower $11 pp/pd. But that might be the end for me and it seems many others as traders.

 

[hurnik]

Interesting idea. If they stopped releasing inventory to the exchange companies but instead rented "hotel style" for cash, they could logically get as much cash flow, and allow exchanges to be true exchanges at equal value. It would also logically bring the right type of people for the sales sharks to attack.

Mike

I'm fairly certain they do this now. There's a thread somewhere about how GL is now "hotel" because you could get it on Expedia. I vaguely recall last year you could also book directly with Vidanta (like a "hotel") but the pricing, IMO was astronomical.

Ultimately it seems the issue for Vidanta is that they have overbuilt the units, but not the amenities. In other words, if GL can hold (let's say) 200 guests, regardless of whether they are owners or exchangers, but the pool area can only hold 50 people, Vidanta's answer to that problem is to only penalize exchangers.

What would happen if all owners went there instead? Would they they tell some owners "sorry, you can't go here"?

 

[Eric B]

I do recall that thread, but a lot of the posts in it were deleted by the OP after some negotiations with Vidanta. There are a fair number of rental listings for GL on VRBO and other websites, but I believe they are predominantly owners trying to rent weeks they aren’t planning to use. No idea how successful they are, but I’d guess that the bulk deposits by Vidanta and cheaper availability through exchanges put a real damper on demand.

I have seen GL suites in both RM and NV listed on SaveOnResorts and through ICE that don’t ask for an exchange. The costs are similar to usage fee costs. I interpret this as the hotel side of things actually doing in a minor way what Mike suggests, but just through vacation club avenues rather than to the general public.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Ultimately it seems the issue for Vidanta is that they have overbuilt the units, but not the amenities. In other words, if GL can hold (let's say) 200 guests, regardless of whether they are owners or exchangers, but the pool area can only hold 50 people, Vidanta's answer to that problem is to only penalize exchangers.

What would happen if all owners went there instead? Would they they tell some owners "sorry, you can't go here"?

The RM - GL Beach Club restriction (IMO) is because of GL Jungle . These buildings are :
1 bedroom suites ( approx. 1200 sq feet ) The physical buildings have existed since 2005 but had not previously been finished or opened .

Vidanta branded them Grand Luxe based on the interior finishing and for market / exchanger purposes .

It also likely gave them “overflow “ GL owner capacity for peak season .

“Overbuilt “ does not seem to be a term in the corporate Vidanta vocabulary .
They seem to see it as exchanger / sales prospect capacity .

In the days of one in three rules ; they restricted repeat exchanges to increase new prospects .
Now they allow unlimited exchanges at aggressive value ( + the resort fee - that likely helps their hotel side ).

IMO - their goal is to move the average off season filled/ capacity level from xx% to xxx% . Let’s say
55% to 75% since their incremental cost of additional staff is low . They then plan on selling xx%
of those exchangers . Let’s say 3 in 10 or better ( including exit package sales )
More prospects = more sales .

They likely don’t care if any of those who -DID NOT BUY - ever come back ( either due to resort fees or any other reason ) What they want is a new crop next year . If the resort fee impacts the number of NEW sales prospects - they will adjust the yardage lines on the field .

The interesting sidebar - right now there is nothing listed past Dec. 2019 on RCI .
The NV Cirque Park is scheduled to open about then .

 

[jssquared]

This is a very interesting conversation. I will chime in as a long time 4 bedroom residence owner with some thoughts.
1. Vidanta has always believed in a model of stratification. Anyone staying on the resort in accommodations other than the Luxxe cannot use the Luxxe only pools, gyms, restaurants, etc. So, the precedent is there to differentiate between guests. It is not surprising that they operate according to a similar strategy with exchangers. The companies main focus is getting someone to attend a presentation. Once at the presentations, according to Vida's numbers (and I have absolutely no way to know if these are accurate), they close better the two thirds of the time. So, if by waiving the exchange fees to get another body to the presentation and then can close 2/3rds of those folks, that is big numbers. (my own opinion is this harms the resort long term because of the negative publicity this receives on EVERY message board and review site).
2. Vidanta has always allowed owners to negotiate various aspects of their contracts upon purchase. So, there is also a variety of owners, within the same unit type, who have very different access to perks, amenities, benefits, and even the dollar amount of maintenance fees. I am told this will no longer be the case going forward as Vida Vacations is resetting the process to try to make the future contracts as uniform as possible.
3. Selfishly, as an owner I want to be assured that I will have guaranteed access to everything that I was promised. I don't want to have to fight with exchangers/guests for chairs at the platinum area of the pools, for the beach club, for restaurant reservations. Vidanta has a huge inherent conflict that I have no idea how to resolve. You have owners that have paid literally hundreds of thousands of dollars for contracts (I don't care about the maintenance fee, the cost of the contract is what matters to the owners) to use the resort. So, Vidanta would like to please these owners. BUT, Vida Vacations needs to sell more contracts. The only way to sell more contracts is to generate more prospects. The only way to generate more prospects is to get folks to the resort who do not already own contracts - exchanges, conferences, theme park, Cirque du Soleil, Hakkassan, etc, etc. But, you have the tension between these two competing constituencies that is constantly present.
4. I post my weeks for rent on the various vacation share sites and have had good success renting out weeks, particularly during high season. It is a bit difficult given the time frame for when people generally book vacations (shorter term) and when you must reserve a week with Vidanta to make sure you get the inventory (one year). There are some owners who rent out for ridiculously low prices which is impacting the rental by owner market. But, there IS a market for very high end rentals - particularly in the highest end Vida inventory.
5. Reservations - this is a MASSIVE issue for the contract owners. It is impossible to get a clear answer from Vidanta or Vida Vacations. It is become incredibly difficult for owners to obtain weeks for their own use. There are many reasons for this lack of inventory, but I would speculate that a significant issue is the developer reserving the inventory for their own use - exchanges, conferences, promotions, etc. Again, a tension between existing owners and the sales operations.
6. New policies - I think we will see new policies over the next year or two. Both related to improving Vidanta's reputation and image among its current owners (can't bite the hand that feeds you) and as the park comes online. Vidanta is expecting more than 1 million annual visitors when phase 1 of the park opens. That will at least double, according to their projections, when the whole park is complete. Further, there will be a Hakkassan project in both Nuevo and Riviera, following the launch earlier this year in Cabo. These mega projects will bring in large, large numbers of people who are also sales prospects. I have been told that owners will really see some tangible improvements to their reservation and overall experience. This is critical at a moment where hundreds of thousands or possibly even millions more people will be coming through the resort annually.
7. Park - It makes sense according to the post above that there is nothing scheduled after the projected completion date of the park. I would imagine this development is going to change the whole dynamic of Vidanta and Vida Vacations. We will see.
8. Some advice - we have never taken advantage of an exchange OUT of Vidanta and into another resort. In the 4 bed we have access to essentially every exchange company: Elite Allliance, Registry, SFX, Vida Lifestyle, and sites like Third Home. If anyone can share insight, or perhaps point me to a relevant thread, about maximizing/optimizing an exchange out of Vida that would be great.
Feel free to ask me anything. I tend to be a bit cautious about sharing info that I learn from Vida, but will be as forthcoming as possible.