Waiohai Ocean View Rooms Assignment Issues

[klkaylor]

Getting a "good" ocean view condo at the MVC Waiohai on Kauai has been difficult for us the last few trips. Last visit we were in Hale 4 at the far back of the resort with a meer peak of the ocean through the trees. In discussing this with the staff and MVC directly the big issue is that there are a lot of legacy week owners that book 3-4 wks at a time and are give priority at the front and mid week check-ins- which we like for cheaper air fares.
We heard lots of complaining about rooms from MCV owners at Waiohai and then a lot of II exchanges with great rooms so ....
We are lifetime plat. Marriott and Chairmans Club with MCV so that is not the issue.
Is this issue just me or are others unhappy as well with the Waiohai condo assignment process.

 

[BocaBoy]

When we owned at Waiohai we came to realize that there are very few good ocean views in the resort, and that was one of the reasons we sold our week. I now recommend that anyone buying at Waiohai buy Island View, most of which have very nice views of the grounds for far less money than a peek at the ocean. I don't think the problem is with the room assignment process as much as due to the fact that there are very view good ocean views to allocate.

 

[taterhed]

I've heard from both Marriott and guests (pool or bar) that most ocean 'fronters' are there for several weeks. Some have bragged about a month or more.

must be nice....

 

[ljmiii]

The Waiohai assignment process works as it should - weeks owners get priority (with multiple weeks owners getting higher priority based on length of stay), then MVCI owners, then II, then renters. The problem is with the how the villas were initially allocated and subsequent events outside the control of the Waiohai Room Assignment office. Unlike other MVCI Hawaii resorts there is no separate Ocean Front category. And there are many very nice Island View villas and only a few that overlook the parking lot in Hales 3, 4, and 5 (the worst at the resort). Later, the good-ish Ocean View villas in Hales 5, 6, and 7 that looked out to the ocean over greenery became parking lot views after construction to the East. And lastly, it seems to have become MVCI's policy to strip the 'view' out of II reservations and give the lowest view category to II trades.

All of which means that at Waiohai today the average Island View room has a better view than the average Ocean View room...and they are likely to go to II traders. So my advice when booking Waiohai with points is to choose Island View - you will likely get a better view than Ocean View and since you are ahead of II traders in the queue you are unlikely to get one of the Island View parking lot view villas.

FYI, your Hale 4 OV villa assignment IS toward the top of the OV desirability - most owners prefer it to the parking lot OV villas in 5, 6, and 7. And I've been a two week owner at Waiohai for over a decade and have been assigned an 'Ocean Front' villa once.

 

[Jayco29D]

The Waiohai assignment process works as it should - weeks owners get priority (with multiple weeks owners getting higher priority based on length of stay), then MVCI owners, then II, then renters. The problem is with the how the villas were initially allocated and subsequent events outside the control of the Waiohai Room Assignment office. Unlike other MVCI Hawaii resorts there is no separate Ocean Front category. And there are many very nice Island View villas and only a few that overlook the parking lot in Hales 3, 4, and 5 (the worst at the resort). Later, the good-ish Ocean View villas in Hales 5, 6, and 7 that looked out to the ocean over greenery became parking lot views after construction to the East. And lastly, it seems to have become MVCI's policy to strip the 'view' out of II reservations and give the lowest view category to II trades.

All of which means that at Waiohai today the average Island View room has a better view than the average Ocean View room...and they are likely to go to II traders. So my advice when booking Waiohai with points is to choose Island View - you will likely get a better view than Ocean View and since you are ahead of II traders in the queue you are unlikely to get one of the Island View parking lot view villas.

FYI, your Hale 4 OV villa assignment IS toward the top of the OV desirability - most owners prefer it to the parking lot OV villas in 5, 6, and 7. And I've been a two week owner at Waiohai for over a decade and have been assigned an 'Ocean Front' villa once.

I thought room assignment priority was date stamped and not based on being a weeks owner vs a points owner.

 

[SueDonJ]

I thought room assignment priority was date stamped and not based on being a weeks owner vs a points owner.

Every resort uses its own priority placement system based loosely on a vague directive from MVW corporate. At all of them Weeks Owners using their owned Weeks are at the top, and it's only recently that we're beginning to hear of a few resorts starting to put DC Trust Points owners on that same tier. As for date stamps, there have always been very few resorts which admit to using that metric. Other random metrics might be Marriott Rewards status, placements during prior stays, if a pre-arrival preference survey was submitted, amount paid for cash stays, etc ...

The only constants with Marriott floating intervals are that they do not guarantee a specific unit placement prior to check-in, and, it's almost a sure bet that if you travel often enough you'll eventually see an unhappy owner/guest having a meltdown at check-in. It bothers me far more to see front desk staff give in to those entitled babies than it does to get a less-than-ideal placement myself.

 

[Jayco29D]

I own both. I think weeks owners and DC Point owners should be equal. I certainly pay a lot more for the DC Points than the weeks, that’s for sure.

 

[ljmiii]

Theoretically Waiohai uses (or at least used to use) timestamps as tie breakers within categories...but never helped you across a category. Also, my impression is that Marriott Rewards Elite matters more (i.e. a Gold Elite reservation with an older timestamp will get higher priority than other Gold Elite members, but not over a Platinum Elite reservation).

 

[SueDonJ]

I own both. I think weeks owners and DC Point owners should be equal. I certainly pay a lot more for the DC Points than the weeks, that’s for sure.

Marriott hasn't ever considered the purchase price paid as a metric for status or priority placement. That was true when Weeks were the only game in town and a direct buyer could pay ten times as much as a resale buyer did yet still own fewer Weeks, and it's true now with DC Trust Points being another product offered by MVW and available on the resale market. Same is true for MF's, the money paid annually for MF's isn't quantified for status. Regardless of how much your individual ownership purchase and annual costs compare to that of other owners, what MVW considers for status is how many Weeks and/or DC Trust Points you own.

Aside from that I agree with you that Weeks owners and DC Trust Points members should be equal in any priority placement system when DC Trust Points members' stays conform to intervals that have been conveyed to the DC Trust. I see the Trust as "owners" of those Weeks and I think it's only fair that the Trust Members using them should benefit by that ownership. But, there are very few owners/members who agree with that viewpoint as you can see here: Marriott Ko Olina - Rooms Control Villa Prioritization.

 

[bazzap]

Marriott hasn't ever considered the purchase price paid as a metric for status or priority placement. That was true when Weeks were the only game in town and a direct buyer could pay ten times as much as a resale buyer did yet still own fewer Weeks, and it's true now with DC Trust Points being another product offered by MVW and available on the resale market. Same is true for MF's, the money paid annually for MF's isn't quantified for status. Regardless of how much your individual ownership purchase and annual costs compare to that of other owners, what MVW considers for status is how many Weeks and/or DC Trust Points you own.

Aside from that I agree with you that Weeks owners and DC Trust Points members should be equal in any priority placement system when DC Trust Points members' stays conform to intervals that have been conveyed to the DC Trust. I see the Trust as "owners" of those Weeks and I think it's only fair that the Trust Members using them should benefit by that ownership. But, there are very few owners/members who agree with that viewpoint as you can see here: Marriott Ko Olina - Rooms Control Villa Prioritization.

And I am one of those who does not agree with this.
An MVC Resort Weeks owner owns exclusively in that one Resort.
An MVC Points owner owns a share in every Trust Resort.
If a Points owner were to have equal priority in every single Trust Resort to an individual Resort Weeks owner that would effectively mean they would be valued by MVC at 50-60 times the worth of a Resort Weeks owner even if they owned just the minimum number of Points.
Alternatively, if we were to even consider this option, then to be fair and reasonable I would suggest that an individual Resort Weeks owner should have equal priority to a Points owner when booking into any MVC Resort.

 

[Jayco29D]

And I am one of those who does not agree with this.
An MVC Resort Weeks owner owns exclusively in that one Resort.
An MVC Points owner owns a share in every Trust Resort.
If a Points owner were to have equal priority in every single Trust Resort to an individual Resort Weeks owner that would effectively mean they would be valued by MVC at 50-60 times the worth of a Resort Weeks owner even if they owned just the minimum number of Points.
Alternatively, if we were to even consider this option, then to be fair and reasonable I would suggest that an individual Resort Weeks owner should have equal priority to a Points owner when booking into any MVC Resort.

Yes, I agree with your second proposition. I think Weeks owners and Points owners should be equal if they are reserving through the same method (i.e. through MVC). If they are both MVC owners and reserving through MVC (not trading though II), I think it should be equal priority and date stamped.

In some cases, I would agree that Weeks owners with a home resort should be higher than Points owners. However, in Marriott's case, this would be unfair to Points owners because Marriott does not actively sell Weeks anymore so it would completely devalue the DC Points program to put Weeks owners ahead of Points owners.

However, for a resort program like Hyatt, where you buy into a home resort and then everyone can convert to points, I think a Home Resort owner should have priority over an exchanger. Disney has a good policy that balances home resort owners with "exchangers" by giving them different booking windows.

I own weeks and points so I do not want my week devalued by points owners or my points devalued by weeks owners. If the policy in Waiohai is to prioritize weeks owners over points owners and I know that for a fact, I would hesitate about going there or I would pick a lesser view category if I do not get what I am paying for with points.

One poster here just said it is a waste to buy or stay in an ocean view at Waiohai. Now that I know that, I would never use points and waste them on what MVC is categorizing as an ocean view.

So what I learned in this thread has just devalued the Waiohai resort for weeks and point owners.

Also, keep in mind that point owners pay more in MFs. So in effect they are subsidizing the MFs of the weeks owners. Not that I think this should influence who gets prioritized but I am sure MVC is thinking about this.

Also paying guests (through Expedia for example) often do end up with the best views since they are buying a guaranteed view when they book a resort even if it is a timeshare. This happens at all resorts. A bunch of years ago, I stayed at Westin Princeville and booked it through Expedia (before I knew what timeshares were). They gave use a fabulous view even though it is hard to get a good view there too. I figured it was because I paid the going retail rate. Westin said they actually hold certain inventory separate in the timeshares for paying guests. When we were there, I learned it was a timeshare. I had no clue back then. It totally blew my mind away about what a timeshare could be.

 

[Dean]

Yes, I agree with your second proposition. I think Weeks owners and Points owners should be equal if they are reserving through the same method (i.e. through MVC). If they are both MVC owners and reserving through MVC (not trading though II), I think it should be equal priority and date stamped.

In some cases, I would agree that Weeks owners with a home resort should be higher than Points owners. However, in Marriott's case, this would be unfair to Points owners because Marriott does not actively sell Weeks anymore so it would completely devalue the DC Points program to put Weeks owners ahead of Points owners.

However, for a resort program like Hyatt, where you buy into a home resort and then everyone can convert to points, I think a Home Resort owner should have priority over an exchanger. Disney has a good policy that balances home resort owners with "exchangers" by giving them different booking windows.

I own weeks and points so I do not want my week devalued by points owners or my points devalued by weeks owners. If the policy in Waiohai is to prioritize weeks owners over points owners and I know that for a fact, I would hesitate about going there or I would pick a lesser view category if I do not get what I am paying for with points.

One poster here just said it is a waste to buy or stay in an ocean view at Waiohai. Now that I know that, I would never use points and waste them on what MVC is categorizing as an ocean view.

So what I learned in this thread has just devalued the Waiohai resort for weeks and point owners.

Also, keep in mind that point owners pay more in MFs. So in effect they are subsidizing the MFs of the weeks owners. Not that I think this should influence who gets prioritized but I am sure MVC is thinking about this.

The core issues are weeks owners using their week then exchangers/DC/Trust points users. Thus at a resort and week with high owner usage, a points reservation will not likely get a good unit assignment since it's treated as an exchange, esp at a resort that doesn't have a lot of good views anyway. Obviously there are other variables but they come after or only slightly modify the owner vs exchange issue. OF course one will get the view reserved for the situations mentioned with a rare upgrade. These include date stamp and multiple weeks concurrently/consecutively.

 

[bazzap]

Yes, I agree with your second proposition. I think Weeks owners and Points owners should be equal if they are reserving through the same method (i.e. through MVC). If they are both MVC owners and reserving through MVC (not trading though II), I think it should be equal priority and date stamped.

In some cases, I would agree that Weeks owners with a home resort should be higher than Points owners. However, in Marriott's case, this would be unfair to Points owners because Marriott does not actively sell Weeks anymore so it would completely devalue the DC Points program to put Weeks owners ahead of Points owners.

However, for a resort program like Hyatt, where you buy into a home resort and then everyone can convert to points, I think a Home Resort owner should have priority over an exchanger. Disney has a good policy that balances home resort owners with "exchangers" by giving them different booking windows.

I own weeks and points so I do not want my week devalued by points owners or my points devalued by weeks owners. If the policy in Waiohai is to prioritize weeks owners over points owners and I know that for a fact, I would hesitate about going there or I would pick a lesser view category if I do not get what I am paying for with points.

One poster here just said it is a waste to buy or stay in an ocean view at Waiohai. Now that I know that, I would never use points and waste them on what MVC is categorizing as an ocean view.

So what I learned in this thread has just devalued the Waiohai resort for weeks and point owners.

Also, keep in mind that point owners pay more in MFs. So in effect they are subsidizing the MFs of the weeks owners. Not that I think this should influence who gets prioritized but I am sure MVC is thinking about this.

Also paying guests (through Expedia for example) often do end up with the best views since they are buying a guaranteed view when they book a resort even if it is a timeshare. This happens at all resorts. A bunch of years ago, I stayed at Westin Princeville and booked it through Expedia (before I knew what timeshares were). They gave use a fabulous view even though it is hard to get a good view there too. I figured it was because I paid the going retail rate. Westin said they actually hold certain inventory separate in the timeshares for paying guests. When we were there, I learned it was a timeshare. I had no clue back then. It totally blew my mind away about what a timeshare could be.

It is not always the case that
“Also, keep in mind that point owners pay more in MFs. So in effect they are subsidizing the MFs of the weeks owners. Not that I think this should influence who gets prioritized but I am sure MVC is thinking about this.”
For example, my St Kitts Beach Club enrolled weeks are allocated 2525 DC points, so the MFs I pay for these weeks effectively equate to $.771 per point which is much more than points owners MFs.

 

[Jayco29D]

It is not always the case that
“Also, keep in mind that point owners pay more in MFs. So in effect they are subsidizing the MFs of the weeks owners. Not that I think this should influence who gets prioritized but I am sure MVC is thinking about this.”
For example, my St Kitts Beach Club enrolled weeks are allocated 2525 DC points, so the MFs I pay for these weeks effectively equate to $.771 per point which is much more than points owners MFs.

Yes, I agree, there are some exceptions. MVC is actively trying to resell St Kitts right now. They did extensive remodeling recently and the suites look amazing. They offered me an enrolled week for $34,000 and convertible to 4025 points. It was an oceanside 2 bedroom prime season week, as I recall. I decided against it.

MVC is offering a few weeks that that convert to higher points in off season. Another one they are offering is a hybrid package with Desert Springs Villa 1. They offer 3225 points if converted and you can trade back in during low season for fewer points.

They are smart (in a business sense) in offering those specific resorts as enrolled weeks.

In general, if you buy an enrolled week plus DC Points at full retail, your maintenance fees are lower than if you buy a pure DC points package. That is one of the selling points of the hybrid packages. The upfront costs are about $7-$8 per point but usually the MFs are lower than a pure point package. On the downside, when you need to resale, it will lose more value (in general) than a pure points resale package. But that depends on the price per point you pay for a resale package.

BTW, St Kitts is an up and coming destination so it might not be so bad to pay that much for an enrolled oceanside 2 bedroom. I get the Caribbean News daily and St Kitts/Nevis is the new luxury destination. I suspect the cost of legacy weeks for St Kitts will be going up for folks who buy it on the resale market. They have a Four Seasons on Nevis, a Ritz Carlton and Senses going into St Kitts and Park Hyatt recently opened in St Kitts. As long as the global economy stays strong, I think St Kitts has a lot of potential.

 

[bazzap]

Yes, I agree, there are some exceptions. MVC is actively trying to resell St Kitts right now. They did extensive remodeling recently and the suites look amazing. They offered me an enrolled week for $34,000 and convertible to 4025 points. It was an oceanside 2 bedroom prime season week, as I recall. I decided against it.

MVC is offering a few weeks that that convert to higher points in off season. Another one they are offering is a hybrid package with Desert Springs Villa 1. They offer 3225 points if converted and you can trade back in during low season for fewer points.

They are smart (in a business sense) in offering those specific resorts as enrolled weeks.

In general, if you buy an enrolled week plus DC Points at full retail, your maintenance fees are lower than if you buy a pure DC points package. That is one of the selling points of the hybrid packages. The upfront costs are about $7-$8 per point but usually the MFs are lower than a pure point package. On the downside, when you need to resale, it will lose more value (in general) than a pure points resale package. But that depends on the price per point you pay for a resale package.

BTW, St Kitts is an up and coming destination so it might not be so bad to pay that much for an enrolled oceanside 2 bedroom. I get the Caribbean News daily and St Kitts/Nevis is the new luxury destination. I suspect the cost of legacy weeks for St Kitts will be going up for folks who buy it on the resale market. They have a Four Seasons on Nevis, a Ritz Carlton and Senses going into St Kitts and Park Hyatt recently opened in St Kitts. As long as the global economy stays strong, I think St Kitts has a lot of potential.

Yes, the way St Kitts is now being developed is fairly unique in the Caribbean.
Not everyone, especially many locals and long term visitors, welcome with the way the relatively undeveloped, laid back, friendly island character is being put at risk by the new major, ultra exclusive developments which is already resulting in the closure of popular local shack beach restaurants/bars and loss of some of the beautiful natural features.
However, that is the way the modern world changes and it is being done with a more controlled, purposeful, long term vision than has been the case with most Caribbean islands.
So for sure, we still really value our ownership there even accepting the very low points allocation.

 

[frank808]

It is not always the case that
“Also, keep in mind that point owners pay more in MFs. So in effect they are subsidizing the MFs of the weeks owners. Not that I think this should influence who gets prioritized but I am sure MVC is thinking about this.”
For example, my St Kitts Beach Club enrolled weeks are allocated 2525 DC points, so the MFs I pay for these weeks effectively equate to $.771 per point which is much more than points owners MFs.

Also the trust was built with a lot of bronze and silver weeks that the vacation club could not sell. They were some of the initial inventory to make up the trust points system. Hence the higher maintenance fees per point.

It was a brilliant move to turn a liability (marriott having to pay maintenance fee on a mud week that people did nrot want to stay at) into an asset (now we can sell this here point for $9.50 each when we couldnt sell the equivalent silver week) Points are points but maintenance fee per point for a platinum week is lower than a silver week because of the point allocation.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

 

[bazzap]

Also the trust was built with a lot of bronze and silver weeks that the vacation club could not sell. They were some of the initial inventory to make up the trust points system. Hence the higher maintenance fees per point.

It was a brilliant move to turn a liability (marriott having to pay maintenance fee on a mud week that people did nrot want to stay at) into an asset (now we can sell this here point for $9.50 each when we couldnt sell the equivalent silver week) Points are points but maintenance fee per point for a platinum week is lower than a silver week because of the point allocation.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

Yes, great news for shareholders!

 

[Wally3433]

It has been stated that there is process with a preference hierarchy to room assignments at Waiohai and the staff does their best to make everyone happy. However, unless your "stats" are printed on your unit door (can you imagine if they did this!), Waiohai guests have no way to measure if they are getting a fair shake with their room assignment.

So, I have decided not to worry about it.

 

[taterhed]

We are legacy week owners at Waiohai (IV).

I will say that Waiohai room control has been very fair, accommodating and even handed with their room assignments (for us). Not sure what system they use, but we have always gotten good interior rooms that match what I would expect for an owner in peak-week Jan. They even gave us adjoining rooms this year for an owned and exchanged reservation!

It would be much harder for the OV category owners.

Whatever the policy, the staff has done a great job managing my room assignments. IMO

 

[Dean]

We are legacy week owners at Waiohai (IV).

I will say that Waiohai room control has been very fair, accommodating and even handed with their room assignments (for us). Not sure what system they use, but we have always gotten good interior rooms that match what I would expect for an owner in peak-week Jan. They even gave us adjoining rooms this year for an owned and exchanged reservation!

It would be much harder for the OV category owners.

Whatever the policy, the staff has done a great job managing my room assignments. IMO

My experience is that all the resorts I've been to with Marriott do a good to great job and try hard. Each has their own personalities for room assignments. I would never complain unless they just totally missed it like giving the wrong view type for a direct reservation.

 

[Jayco29D]

Yes, the way St Kitts is now being developed is fairly unique in the Caribbean.
Not everyone, especially many locals and long term visitors, welcome with the way the relatively undeveloped, laid back, friendly island character is being put at risk by the new major, ultra exclusive developments which is already resulting in the closure of popular local shack beach restaurants/bars and loss of some of the beautiful natural features.
However, that is the way the modern world changes and it is being done with a more controlled, purposeful, long term vision than has been the case with most Caribbean islands.
So for sure, we still really value our ownership there even accepting the very low points allocation.

I find it interesting that St Kitts is attracting so many upscale resort companies like Four Seasons, Park Hyatt, etc. Yet St Thomas and St John have so little upscale development. Pretty much the only upscale resort in the US Virgin Islands is Ritz Carlton in STT and Caneel Bay (prior to the hurricanes in STJ). I do not count WSJ and Marriott as truly upscale. They are 3.5-4 star.

 

[bazzap]

I find it interesting that St Kitts is attracting so many upscale resort companies like Four Seasons, Park Hyatt, etc. Yet St Thomas and St John have so little upscale development. Pretty much the only upscale resort in the US Virgin Islands is Ritz Carlton in STT and Caneel Bay (prior to the hurricanes in STJ). I do not count WSJ and Marriott as truly upscale. They are 3.5-4 star.

Two factors behind the particular growth of both upscale resorts and private residences on
St Kitts are
- the Government fees and bureaucracy are relatively low.
- the citizenship-by-investment programme is the oldest and most established in the region.

 

[Jayco29D]

Two factors behind the particular growth of both upscale resorts and private residences on
St Kitts are
- the Government fees and bureaucracy are relatively low.
- the citizenship-by-investment programme is the oldest and most established in the region.

That is good news. I think St Kitts is up and coming. It will cause all the resorts to step up their game. I just hope they do not overdevelop.

 

[bazzap]

That is good news. I think St Kitts is up and coming. It will cause all the resorts to step up their game. I just hope they do not overdevelop.

Many locals and regular visitors believe they already are overdeveloping and there is heated debate now about the new Ritz Carlton development and the associated forced closure of very popular beach shacks.
It is nowhere near as bad as most Caribbean islands, but it is a risk for those of us who love the traditional island culture.

 

[brianfox]

We are legacy week owners at Waiohai (IV).

I will say that Waiohai room control has been very fair, accommodating and even handed with their room assignments (for us). Not sure what system they use, but we have always gotten good interior rooms that match what I would expect for an owner in peak-week Jan. They even gave us adjoining rooms this year for an owned and exchanged reservation!

It would be much harder for the OV category owners.

Whatever the policy, the staff has done a great job managing my room assignments. IMO

Agree wholeheartedly.

We always go in July and we see the same people staying in the ocean front units. They stay a month or more at a time. Those units are nearly impossible to get unless you own a crazy number of weeks.

And as for the weeks owners vs DC owners having priority, I have no problem with them getting equal priority - as long as you are talking about 7 night Fri-Sat-Sun arrivals. I do NOT think someone who owns 20,000 DC points should get priority over others to stay 3 midweek nights, screwing up the calendar for weeks owners.

I know DC point owners have spent a crapload on those points, and feel entitled to have priority - I would, too. But many current weeks owners spent $40K-$60K on their week back in the day. Every DC owner had the opportunity to buy weeks on the resale market for a fraction of the cost. They chose not to. Foolishness doesn't earn entitlement.