Best Value HGVC

[aarce]

I am in my mid-fifties buying my first timeshare. Where is the best value in the HGVC system? I am considering purchasing between 7000-8400 points. This point level should allow me to get in most resorts in HGVC. Looking to spend 5-7k and wanting low MF's. Is this the right approach? High MF's kind of negates value as does a high purchase price which lengthens the break even point. I'm considering Bay Club or Flamingo to try and reach my value goal. Any other options out there that may be a good value in the HGVC system?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Congrats @Alfonso on researching your purchase before buying. There is a list of questions you should complete that would help us to better answer your questions:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-to-buy-questions-for-newbies.208742/

 

[bevans]

I would concentrate on The Flamingo, HGVC Paradise, or The Strip property in Las Vegas. These will be more costly to buy than The Bay Club but carry much lower maintenance fees so long term you would be better off. Buying Platinum 7000 is a good entry point and have good resale if the time comes to sell. The three Las Vegas 7000 points typically go for about $1 point more or less. By the way the Bay Club is a great property and my wife have stayed there many times and 7000 points will get you about two weeks in a one bedroom in gold season. Doing the math on buying one of these properties would mean at $1000 per year maintenance, would mean a weekly cost of $500 for the one bedroom in Gold season. Good Luck, Curt

 

[md8287]

T

 

[alwysonvac]

I am in my mid-fifties buying my first timeshare.

We’re in our fifties. Bought our first timeshare over ten years ago, back in 2003. Had many great stays with extended family and friends but timesharing isn’t something I generally recommend to others.

Timeshares work for us because we can travel anytime of year (not restricted by a school calendar) and I select from what's available (vs a specific travel date). I also prefer to travel when the majority of kids are in school (less demand = less crowds, lower airfare, lower car rental rates, etc). Thankfully I bought our timeshares via the resale market but we simply can’t escape the ongoing increases in various fees and point requirements for the newer resorts.

Here are some threads/posts you might find interesting.

1. Have you been surprised by HGVC - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-surprised-by-hgvc.223671/page-2#post-1733451
2. HGVC Maintenance Fee History - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/maintenance-fee-history.269296/#post-2101417
3. HGVC Fee History - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-has-been-released.267321/page-2#post-2091478

JMHO..

Whatever you decide, don't put all of your future vacation dollars into timesharing.
This will give you the flexibility in the future to choose the best way to visit your desired destinations. There might not be a timeshare at the location that you want to visit or if there is a timeshare it may be very hard to book a stay. You may also want to visit a destination in an entirely different way via a cruise, hotel/resort stay, special discounted travel package, tour company, beach house rental, etc.

Also, don't base your purchase decision simply on the Hilton name or what you might have heard from a Hilton timeshare presentation.
Take some time to research before you act on anything you heard from the sales guys. Try to learn as much as you can about Hilton's timeshare system ("reality" vs "fantasy"). Think about where you want to go. Look at the locations offered by HGVC. One size doesn't fit all. You'll have to decide what's best for you and your family.

I also don't believe that one should put all of their eggs into one basket.
HGVC doesn't satisfy all of my vacation needs and why I don't put all of my vacation money into timesharing in general. ​

 

[Mosescan]

Figuring long term costs for any given unit is a math problem that will vary depending on how long you expect to own for.

Purchase price + 10 x annual maintenance fee / 10 annual point allotment will give you an average cost per point over a 10 year period.

eg: initial price $7000 + 10 x $900 annual main fee / 10 x 7000 points per year = $0.228/point over 10 years.

This can then be used to figure out the cost of any given vacation. for example if you go the the HHV and stay in a 1 BR at the lagoon tower during platinum season that will cost you 4800 points. Multiply this by your point cost of $0.228 and that week is costing you $1094.40, which is a pretty awesome price for a 1 BR apartment on Waikiki beach. But it will also cost you that same amount for a 1 BR in Florida during platinum season or even Vegas if you are there in platinum season. That is $156.34/night which is more than a cheap hotel but great value for what you are getting. A 2 BR during platinum season would be all 7000 points and have a cost of $1596.00 which is still a great price.

Now if you own the same time share for 20 years then your average cost per point would be $0.178/point and that week in a 1 BR would be $854.40 and a 2 BR would be $1246.00

The initial cost of the points was $1/point and your annual maintenance fees are $0.1285/point. This maint fee/point has an effect on 2 different equations

1. The longer you own, the lower your average cost per point will be and the better value you get for your money.

2. The lower that maint fee /point ratio is, the quicker you lower your total cost per point. Over the long term, a lower maint fee to point ratio will always make up for a higher initial purchase price. Now with some of the initial purchase prices that people are trying to sell for that may take 150 years but you get the general idea! LOL!

So to compare apples to apples when shopping for units figure out how long you intend to own for and use that first equation for each unit. The math will tell you which one is a better value. This will even work for units of different point values because in the end it gives you the $/point over a fixed period of time.

Happy hunting!

 

[aarce]

This is what I have been looking for, a formula that takes the guesswork out of shopping for best value. I ran across an 8400 point Bay Club, platinum listing with MF + taxes at $1718 and purchase price at $4000.

$4000 + 10 x $1718 / 10 x 8400 - Using the formula provided over a 10 year period my cost per point is 0.252/point and this does not include closing cost and fee increases over the 10 year period. Although the low buy-in is appealing I am a bit skeptical on the higher MF's. I am curious to see what you think about these numbers.

 

[aarce]

We’re in our fifties. Bought our first timeshare over ten years ago, back in 2003. Had many great stays with extended family and friends but timesharing isn’t something I generally recommend to others.

Timeshares work for us because we can travel anytime of year (not restricted by a school calendar) and I select from what's available (vs a specific travel date). I also prefer to travel when the majority of kids are in school (less demand = less crowds, lower airfare, lower car rental rates, etc). Thankfully I bought our timeshares via the resale market but we simply can’t escape the ongoing increases in various fees and point requirements for the newer resorts.

Here are some threads/posts you might find interesting.

1. Have you been surprised by HGVC - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-surprised-by-hgvc.223671/page-2#post-1733451
2. HGVC Maintenance Fee History - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/maintenance-fee-history.269296/#post-2101417
3. HGVC Fee History - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-has-been-released.267321/page-2#post-2091478

JMHO..

Whatever you decide, don't put all of your future vacation dollars into timesharing.
This will give you the flexibility in the future to choose the best way to visit your desired destinations. There might not be a timeshare at the location that you want to visit or if there is a timeshare it may be very hard to book a stay. You may also want to visit a destination in an entirely different way via a cruise, hotel/resort stay, special discounted travel package, tour company, beach house rental, etc.

Also, don't base your purchase decision simply on the Hilton name or what you might have heard from a Hilton timeshare presentation.
Take some time to research before you act on anything you heard from the sales guys. Try to learn as much as you can about Hilton's timeshare system ("reality" vs "fantasy"). Think about where you want to go. Look at the locations offered by HGVC. One size doesn't fit all. You'll have to decide what's best for you and your family.

I also don't believe that one should put all of their eggs into one basket.
HGVC doesn't satisfy all of my vacation needs and why I don't put all of my vacation money into timesharing in general. ​

 

[aarce]

Thanks for the great info. I'm looking for between 7000 and 8700 points as I would like to be able to use the top locations in HGVC. Although this may be a good point level will availability be a challenge? Obviously being timely with your booking requests is important but otherwise will booking the more popular locations be a problem. This will definitely factor into by decisions as I plan on moving around in the system. My kids are grown and although I am working, I can generally take off when I want (self employed) usually between 4-5 weeks per year. I'm not independently wealthy so value is important to me.

 

[Mosescan]

As stated above by someone else, I think some of the best value units are in Vegas but the math will tell you that answer.

You have weigh that value against being able to stay where and when you want to stay. If you want Hawaii during peak seasons like Christmas then you need to own there so you can book 12 months out. Remember that this home week booking is for exactly what you own so if you want a 1 BR then you will need to own a 1 BR platinum in the resort you want. If you buy a 2 BR so you have more points then you will have to book a 2 BR for your home week. Otherwise you have to wait until the 9 month mark. If you are going to book at the 9 month mark then it doesn’t matter where you own.

 

[krj9999]

There's also annual club fees and non-home week reservation fees to consider. Plus there are opportunity costs in buying the timeshare (what are or would you do with the money instead, or are you borrowing money to purchase); which you could value at anywhere between 3-10% probably depending on your situation.

OTOH, the earlier calculations also assign no value to selling the unit in the future. Which for many/most HGVC platinum weeks is likely overly pessimistic at present.

Looking at the 2017 fee structure (have they gone up for 2018?); and assuming 1.5 non-home week reservations a year along with a 5% opportunity cost and you are able to sell at same price at some future date - a 7000 point purchase with $900 MF and all-in purchase price of $8,000 would imply total current annual cost of $1,548 per year (or $1,032 per reservation). Stretching the points to 2 reservations a year (smaller unit and/or lower season) would have little additional cost, and would drop the cost to $789 per reservation.

$159 club fee
$59 reservation fee X 1.5 (or 2)
$900 MF
$400 opportunity cost

At least, that's the way I would look at it.

 

[Mosescan]

I never add in selling the unit again to my calculations. I look at this as a long term investment and the retail landscape can change so much over 10 or 20 years that I don’t believe that should be considered. I do agree though, all things being equal, if you buy resale at a reasonable price you will likely recoup most of your money in resale.

The rest of the fees you mentioned will be pretty standard no matter where you buy unless you only use Home weeks and should definitely be considered in the total cost of timesharing when deciding if this is something you can truly afford.

The formulas I presented above were about figuring out which unit to purchase for best long term value/lowest cost per point.

 

[alwysonvac]

Thanks for the great info. I'm looking for between 7000 and 8700 points as I would like to be able to use the top locations in HGVC. Although this may be a good point level will availability be a challenge? Obviously being timely with your booking requests is important but otherwise will booking the more popular locations be a problem. This will definitely factor into by decisions as I plan on moving around in the system. My kids are grown and although I am working, I can generally take off when I want (self employed) usually between 4-5 weeks per year. I'm not independently wealthy so value is important to me.

Timeshares are not an investment.
You’ll find most folks on this board don't view timeshares as an investment. Some will find value and others refer to it as a luxury item. Some folks just prefer to pay more to stay in a suite/condo with a full kitchen, washer/dryer, living room and one or more bedrooms/bathrooms. They want more space than a small hotel room for their family.

Resale prices will continue to decline as fees continue to climb.
Here’s HGVC resale pricing over the last 15 years - http://web.archive.org/web/*/Sellingtimeshares.net

Will timeshares save you money?
Some do. For example, some will look for ways to stretch their points for longer or more frequent stays. And some will prefer to take advantage of the larger accomodations as they value more space (two bedroom vs a hotel room). Every family situation is different.

Will Availability be a challenge? Maybe
Honestly it depends. Some locations are easier to book than others. This goes back to my reality vs fantasy comment. Here’s an example:
“Sanibel/Captiva/Marco Club Reservations” - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/sanibel-captiva-marco-club-reservations.115874/

Why did you decide on HGVC and how are you planning to use your points?
If you tell us that you’re planning to use all of your points on vacations to Orlando and Vegas then I would say that you probably won’t have a problem with availability. Of course, book early especially if you want a specific resort and unit type.


TUG discussions you might find interesting

1. Is there any reason to buy a timeshare? - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/is-there-any-reason-to-buy-a-timeshare.241177/
2. Advantages of Owning vs Renting? - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/advantages-of-owning-vs-renting.229521/
3. what are the financial benefits of buying a timeshare? - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ancial-benefits-of-buying-a-timeshare.255220/
4. What is your maintenance fee threshold? - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-is-your-maintenance-fee-threshold.265667/
5. Why did you buy, and is it worth it? - http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/why-did-you-buy-and-is-it-worth-it.243762/

 

[tk25]

If going to stay in multiple Hilton properties over years and want points with lowest maintenance fees.

I think one of the best values is Las Vegas strip two bedroom platinum 7000 points. Maintenance fees, tax, reserve fund total about $850/year. Try to get this for about $1/point

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The other property to consider is Las Vegas Paradise 7000 Platinum 2 Bedroom with similar maintenance fee to the Strip. Because this location is often forgotten, these units go for closer to the $1 per point range of $7000.

When we were shopping for a Vegas trader last fall, many owners of 2 bdrm Plat Strip, Flamingo, or Elara were asking around $10k+. Plus we were told by a reputable agent (who is often recommended on this forum) that ROFR on Strip was running $9000+ and owners were not offering to pay points or closing fees at the time. We were able to negotiate more with a Paradise property and were able to get the owner to throw in a year of free points and pay for the closing costs which resulted in around $1 per point all in and less than $1 per point when you back out closing and extra year of points.

Bottom Line: We saved $3000+ by opting for Paradise vs. the other Vegas properties last fall. Points are points if you are trading. Can you find similar deals at the other Vegas locations? Absolutely, but you will have to search and negotiate harder and be willing to potentially wait through multiple ROFRs to get similar results.

 

[Tamaradarann]

As stated above by someone else, I think some of the best value units are in Vegas but the math will tell you that answer.

You have weigh that value against being able to stay where and when you want to stay. If you want Hawaii during peak seasons like Christmas then you need to own there so you can book 12 months out. Remember that this home week booking is for exactly what you own so if you want a 1 BR then you will need to own a 1 BR platinum in the resort you want. If you buy a 2 BR so you have more points then you will have to book a 2 BR for your home week. Otherwise you have to wait until the 9 month mark. If you are going to book at the 9 month mark then it doesn’t matter where you own.

Mosescan's advise about owning specifically what you want in Hawaii during peak seasons is good. However, be aware that certain locations like Hawaii have EVENT WEEKS. In Hawaii for most resorts Christmas and New Years weeks 51 and 52 are EVENT WEEKS. If you want to book a resort during for an EVENT WEEK you can't just own Platinum in the type of room you want, you must own the type of room you want in that specific EVENT WEEK.

 

[Mosescan]

Mosescan's advise about owning specifically what you want in Hawaii during peak seasons is good. However, be aware that certain locations like Hawaii have EVENT WEEKS. In Hawaii for most resorts Christmas and New Years weeks 51 and 52 are EVENT WEEKS. If you want to book a resort during for an EVENT WEEK you can't just own Platinum in the type of room you want, you must own the type of room you want in that specific EVENT WEEK.

That’s a very good point which I had overlooked.

Is every unit designated as an event week or are some left open for regular owners? I’ve not booked during an event week ever.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Mosescan's advise about owning specifically what you want in Hawaii during peak seasons is good. However, be aware that certain locations like Hawaii have EVENT WEEKS. In Hawaii for most resorts Christmas and New Years weeks 51 and 52 are EVENT WEEKS. If you want to book a resort during for an EVENT WEEK you can't just own Platinum in the type of room you want, you must own the type of room you want in that specific EVENT WEEK.

+1 agree that Event Weeks are a consideration. It depends on whether the majority of event week owners actually use their week at a particular property. In NYC (W57th) we don't own an event week, but have been able to book both Thanksgiving and New Years event weeks during the owners Home Resort Window (9 mo to 45 days) with as little as 4 months advance notice. Given we can book a home week up until the 31 day window if there is availability, we can reserve the entire week as a home week (or a few days) at the 9 month home resort window.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I personally do not think all timeshares initial investments drop to $0, so there is inherent value in the equity of a desirable timeshare. In fact, ALL of my DVC timeshares are worth much more than what I paid, so they actually have a (negative cost to them).

Thus, if you buy a desirable HGVC resale for fair market value, then it should hold or at worst drop 50%, but for sure, not 100%.

This, the majority of the cost to own is (lost opportunity cost of investment - figure 5%) + (annual dues) + (HGVC yearly and booking fees)

 

[Mosescan]

I personally do not think all timeshares initial investments drop to $0, so there is inherent value in the equity of a desirable timeshare. In fact, ALL of my DVC timeshares are worth much more than what I paid, so they actually have a (negative cost to them).

Thus, if you buy a desirable HGVC resale for fair market value, then it should hold or at worst drop 50%, but for sure, not 100%.

This, the majority of the cost to own is (lost opportunity cost of investment - figure 5%) + (annual dues) + (HGVC yearly and booking fees)

Agreed but you definitely have to be careful with what you buy and do your research. My 5000 point Vegas gold unit that I bought at developer costs would certainly not get more that $500-$1000 if I was lucky. The platinum units as somebody mentioned above are much more likely to hold their resale price value but even that may change with time. I fully expect my Scotland properties to sell for what I paid for them when/if I ever sell them.

Now DVC is another matter all together. Their prices are high even in resale and seem to be climbing right now. Not sure how that will be in 20 years as they approach the end of their use cycle.

 

[alwysonvac]

I personally do not think all timeshares initial investments drop to $0, so there is inherent value in the equity of a desirable timeshare. In fact, ALL of my DVC timeshares are worth much more than what I paid, so they actually have a (negative cost to them).

I won’t use DVC as the benchmark. It’s a totally different animal.
DVC resale values are great because of Disney's active ROFR. And having limited destinations makes ROFR easier for them. If Disney decides to cut back on ROFR (due to less demand) you will see a drop in resale values.

JMHO...For most timeshares, I would simply expect the worst and hope for the best.
A property could be very desirable but hard to get rid of. A good example is Harborside at Atlantis where folks are giving their weeks away for free on the Bargains Board but even that’s hard due to the high maintenance fees and higher than normal closing cost.
With timeshares, it’s also a supply vs demand thing. When you have lots of folks wanting out and not as many buyers, resale prices continue to spiral down due to ongoing competition.