Aggressive Sales at Coconut Plantation

[lizap]

We have visited a lot of TS resorts, but I must say, our experience with HCP was unlike anything we've ever experienced. Received not one, but two calls pre-visit trying to get us to attend sales presentation. Was told that there had been some changes that existing owners needed to be aware of and that since the program was so popular, needed to make the appointment pre-visit. We didnt. After arrival, one of the "concierges" escorted me to her desk and ....., I decline. Again, one day I was in the lobby, she tries to get me to sign up again; I decline. On three separate days, the phone in the room rings; we do not answer as we strongly suspect who it is. I must say I have NEVER seen anything like this, and we have visited many TS resorts. This tells me they are having major trouble getting inventory for HPP..AND they are putting big-time pressure on the poor sales people to produce.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

We have visited a lot of TS resorts, but I must say, our experience with HCP was unlike anything we've ever experienced. Received not one, but two calls pre-visit trying to get us to attend sales presentation. Was told that there had been some changes that existing owners needed to be aware of and that since the program was so popular, needed to make the appointment pre-visit. We didnt. After arrival, one of the "concierges" escorted me to her desk and ....., I decline. Again, one day I was in the lobby, she tries to get me to sign up again; I decline. On three separate days, the phone in the room rings; we do not answer as we strongly suspect who it is. I must say I have NEVER seen anything like this, and we have visited many TS resorts. This tells me they are having major trouble getting inventory for HPP..AND they are putting big-time pressure on the poor sales people to produce.

They will have the most inventory in HPP with all the new development there which may be why. We go to Sunset Harbor in Jan but will also avoid any presentations.

 

[Kal]

Thanks for the update. It's sad that Hyatt has fallen into the old school of hucksterism. Of course they have a new program to try to sell, and all indications confirm it's not going well. For me, I can't wait to have that "update" and maintain an image of a willing buyer. It would be a huge sporting event to play with the newbie hucksters then take on their manager "hot lamp" specialist. The downside of a successful sporting event is them being absolutely convinced a big sale is in hand, then the dive to earth without a parachute!

 

[dahntahn]

Thanks for the update. It's sad that Hyatt has fallen into the old school of hucksterism. Of course they have a new program to try to sell, and all indications confirm it's not going well. For me, I can't wait to have that "update" and maintain an image of a willing buyer. It would be a huge sporting event to play with the newbie hucksters then take on their manager "hot lamp" specialist. The downside of a successful sporting event is them being absolutely convinced a big sale is in hand, then the dive to earth without a parachute!

Interesting phone call today from guest relations at Coconut Plantation where we will arrive Jan. 13 for a week, which is our owned week. Ostensibly the purpose was to inquire if we had any special requests for our stay, but it was immediately obvious that the call was to sign us up for our "preferential owner presentation"of the new points plan. For a bribe of a $100 credit to be used in the CP resort or the Hyatt hotel nearby, we would listen to a 60 minute presentation at the sales center on the property. The pitch was that as owners we would have a guaranteed reservation for this at a time that suited us, rather than signing up at arrival when the openings would be "quite limited"due to the popularity of signing up in advance. [HAH]

We have been coming to CP in the week 2 we own [bought resale on Ebay for $2500] for at least 5 years and have never received any such call in advance. We did go to the same presentation last year but the salesperson was woefully uninformed and the plan was still nebulous. We will go again now to see if we can learn anything useful for Tuggers, and it will be fun to tweak the salesperson. Plus we will use the $100 credit. Looks like Hyatt is putting on the full court press, likely due to poor sales results. Will report back afterward.

 

[pedro47]

concierge was chasing you down because they are paid a commission for ever presentation they schedule and an extra incentive for every couple/person that attend the sales presentation.

 

[lizap]

concierge was chasing you down because they are paid a commission for ever presentation they schedule and an extra incentive for every couple/person that attend the sales presentation.

I knew this. What was very unusual was the level of aggressiveness..

 

[Kal]

Their paycheck probably has multiple levels of commissions....
- Agreeing to attend presentation
- Attendance at a presentation
- Purchase of something
- Purchase of something BIG

They might not realize that aggressive behavior could have negative consequences.

 

[WalnutBaron]

Thanks, dahntahn. Looking forward to your review of your thrilling presentation. I do hope you can squeeze in as the sales showroom is likely to be packed with eager buyers!

 

[Bob B]

Are they looking just to convert people to points or are they actually building more units at Coconut Plantation?

 

[lizap]

Are they looking just to convert people to points or are they actually building more units at Coconut Plantation?

They are currently building the fourth building. I assume it will all be HPP. They are very aggressively trying to get HRC owners to convert to HPP as well.

 

[bizaro86]

If someone ever says that, the logical response is "in that case I'll be happy to leave the last few spots for other folks"

Or,

"I'm glad to hear spaces are filling up, maybe you'll quit bothering me then."

Of course, there's always the classic, and my personal favourite.

"No." Followed by walking away/hanging up.

 

[dahntahn]

If someone ever says that, the logical response is "in that case I'll be happy to leave the last few spots for other folks"

Or,

"I'm glad to hear spaces are filling up, maybe you'll quit bothering me then."

Of course, there's always the classic, and my personal favourite.

"No." Followed by walking away/hanging up.

If someone ever says that, the logical response is "in that case I'll be happy to leave the last few spots for other folks"

Or,

"I'm glad to hear spaces are filling up, maybe you'll quit bothering me then."

Of course, there's always the classic, and my personal favourite.

"No." Followed by walking away/hanging up.

Attended sales pitch today at Coconut Plantation. They are attempting to sell opportunity to convert one or all of owned resale weeks of HRC to HPC status (HPC=Hyatt Points Club). This would allow owner on a yearly basis to choose to book his points in either program. Buy in cost offered us was 840 new points at $20 per point plus maintenance fee of .84 per point for the first year, or total of $ 17,500. This would convert 2 of our owned weeks. We declined. During presentation we were told something BIG was going to change on Jan 29, so we should buy before then. I got the impression this might be some kind of merger of affiliation with another timeshare co.? They were very coy about that.

After we said no a second time to the closer, we were offered a new plan called Access, which would keep the door open to convert a week (or more) for two years on the same terms as today, for a one time cost today of $2300 plus $200 in tax and fees. If you do convert sometime in that 2 year window, the $2300 will be applied to the cost of doing so. For this you get a free 7 day stay in a one BR at any of the following HRC properties: Sedona, Windward Pointe, Coconut Plantation, Highlands Inn, Wild Oak; good any season for up to 2 years, plus 84,000 World of Hyatt points good for lifetime and can be used at any Hyatt Hotel or at HRC properties, plus 2 years of Leisure Time Passport which apparently can be used to book last minute stays at very low cost. ( I have no knowledge of the latter.). The WOH points can also be converted to airline miles.

Takeaways: 1. Something is going to happen on Jan. 29 which may or may not affect us legacy owners.
2. Pure HPP owners will NOT have access to the legacy system except when a legacy owner who has converted his week decides in any given year to access the HPC system, relinquishing his HRC points only for that year, a possibility of very low probability since the HPC trust has very little inventory as yet. I asked all three of the sales people this question and all gave the same answer. This made me much relieved, as there has been some different reporting on this forum.
3. The existence of the " Access" program tells me that they are NOT being successful in selling this conversion idea, else they would not offer a reasonably incentivized plan allowing people to delay making a decision.
The sales people were pleasant and not pushy, but they did take too long to make the pitch.

 

[WalnutBaron]

Great report, dahntahn. Thank you. My thoughts from what you shared:

1. As we've discussed on these boards for some time now, I agree with your assessment that the HRP/HPC/HPP (whatever we're going to call it!) is going down in flames. There just isn't enough value for a fairly large investment to have it make sense for legacy (HRC) owners. I agree with your assessment of the existence of the Access program; the sales weasels are desperate to sell anything in order to keep the patient breathing--but the patient is definitely on life support.
2. I've consistently posited that the HRC trust is separate and distinct from the Points trust, which means owners in the Points trust cannot access the HRC inventory with the exception you noted, when an HRC owner voluntarily relinquishes his/her week in any given year.
3. What's great is that HRC owners can access the Points inventory for the foreseeable future--a benefit none of us would have anticipated but which is likely the result of having far too few Points owners in the Points pool. ILG/Hyatt bought too many ROFR'd weeks last year when they were trying to build the Points inventory, and since sales of the HPC are so slow, they now have to rely on HRC owners to soak up the inventory.
4. Whatever the BIG announcement is on 29 January...well, let's just say I am not going to circle the date on my calendar. If it was a merger, there's no way the sales weasels would be privy to it two weeks in advance. It could possibly be some kind of affiliation enhancement, but I doubt it will be anything earth-shattering or which will fundamentally change the value equation for either HPC or HRC.

In any case, thanks for shedding more light on this whole thing.

 

[heathpack]

Thanks for the report @dahntahn

 

[lizap]

Great report, dahntahn. Thank you. My thoughts from what you shared:

1. As we've discussed on these boards for some time now, I agree with your assessment that the HRP/HPC/HPP (whatever we're going to call it!) is going down in flames. There just isn't enough value for a fairly large investment to have it make sense for legacy (HRC) owners. I agree with your assessment of the existence of the Access program; the sales weasels are desperate to sell anything in order to keep the patient breathing--but the patient is definitely on life support.
2. I've consistently posited that the HRC trust is separate and distinct from the Points trust, which means owners in the Points trust cannot access the HRC inventory with the exception you noted, when an HRC owner voluntarily relinquishes his/her week in any given year.
3. What's great is that HRC owners CAN access the Points inventory for the foreseeable future--a benefit none of us would have anticipated but which is likely the result of having far too few Points owners in the Points pool. ILG/Hyatt bought too many ROFR'd weeks last year when they were trying to build the Points inventory, and since sales of the HPC are so slow, they now have to rely on HRC owners to soak up the inventory.
4. Whatever the BIG announcement is on 29 January...well, let's just say I am not going to circle the date on my calendar. If it was a merger, there's no way the sales weasels would be privy to it two weeks in advance. It could possibly be some kind of affiliation enhancement, but I doubt it will be anything earth-shattering or which will fundamentally change the value equation for either HPC or HRC.

In any case, thanks for shedding more light on this whole thing.

Completely agree. What's interesting is we can access HPC inventory, but HPC owners can't access HRC, unless we give up our units. I'm wondering if the announcement might be what I had originally heard: that HRC owners will be allowed to convert to HPC on a yearly basis for a reasonable fee.

 

[bdh]

Pure HPP owners will NOT have access to the legacy system except when a legacy owner who has converted his week decides in any given year to access the HPC system, relinquishing his HRC points only for that year, a possibility of very low probability since the HPC trust has very little inventory as yet. I asked all three of the sales people this question and all gave the same answer. This made me much relieved, as there has been some different reporting on this forum.

I've consistently posted that the HRC trust is separate and distinct from the Points trust, which means owners in the Points trust cannot access the HRC inventory with the exception you noted, when an HRC owner voluntarily relinquishes his/her week in any given year.

Completely agree. What's interesting is we can access HPC inventory, but HPC owners can't access HRC, unless we give up our units.

There's no doubt that HRC and HPP are different and separate systems/ownership - however there's a question how long the inventory of units stay separate. Hyatt sales staff have said that HPP owners only have access to HRC week/units when a HRC owner converts their legacy week to the HPP system on a yearly basis. The Go Hyatt staff have said HPP owners have instant access to HRC week/units when a HRC owner's legacy week is no longer HRPP.

If using the sales staff version, a HRC owned week will seldom be available to HPP owners. If using the Go Hyatt staff version, every HRC unit that is not reserved as the deeded week/unit becomes available to HPP owners (ie: when a HRPP week automatically or manually moves to CUP). There is a BIG difference between the two versions - it would be better for legacy HRC owners if the sales staff version is correct than if the Go Hyatt version is correct. I realize that if the sales staff used the Go Hyatt version, it would motivate more HRC owners to buy into HPP, however when you combine TS salesman's historically questionable statements with the Go Hyatt staff historically accurate information, I'm inclined to think the Go Hyatt version is correct.

And yes, I hope my inclination is WRONG! However, its hard to imagine that Hyatt created a new program to sell TS and that system is more advantageous to HRC owners than to HPP owners by providing HRC access to HPP inventory and limited HPP access to HRC inventory.

 

[WalnutBaron]

Interesting. From my understanding, the two programs represent completely different and separate ownership trusts, meaning the ability of one group to access the others’ units can only be done through a deeded ownership in both. You might say, “well, why can HRC owners now easily use HPP units?” And the answer is that ILG overbought through ROFR last year, has far too much inventory available in HPP with too few owners, and has—at least temporarily—allowed HRC owners to get access simply to offset the huge costs that ILG is incurring by owning those HPP units and continuing to pay maintenance costs on them.

Because the HRC system is robust and working well, the reverse does not apply for HPP owners.

By the way, my experience with the GO Hyatt ownership reps is not as positive as yours, bdh. Often I have gotten bad information, requiring me to call back to get a more experienced, better-trained rep.

 

[bdh]

Interesting. From my understanding, the two programs represent completely different and separate ownership trusts, meaning the ability of one group to access the others’ units can only be done through a deeded ownership in both. You might say, “well, why can HRC owners now easily use HPP units?” And the answer is that ILG overbought through ROFR last year, has far too much inventory available in HPP with too few owners, and has—at least temporarily—allowed HRC owners to get access simply to offset the huge costs that ILG is incurring by owning those HPP units and continuing to pay maintenance costs on them.

Because the HRC system is robust and working well, the reverse does not apply for HPP owners.

By the way, my experience with the GO Hyatt ownership reps is not as positive as yours, bdh. Often I have gotten bad information, requiring me to call back to get a more experienced, better-trained rep.

Agreed that the HRC and HPP are completely different ownership programs and that HRC is a strong product and HPP is currently an under performing product. Again, hope I'm wrong, but when the Go Hyatt staff explain the system reservation rules and you can see that bear out on your computer screen via the online Hyatt website, it adds credence to the veracity of their comments (unlike a TS salesman that talks but doesn't really say anything). Not saying that every Go Hyatt staff is omniscient, but have found far more of them to be knowledge/accurate on things Hyatt than not (especially when compared to a TS salesman).

RE: ILG overbought through ROFR last year, has far too much inventory available in HPP with too few owners, and has—at least temporarily—allowed HRC owners to get access simply to offset the huge costs that ILG is incurring by owning those HPP units and continuing to pay maintenance costs on them. Is this confirmed info or conjecture? While possible, it would be interesting to learn how HRC pays or transfers money to the HPP balance sheet when an HRC owner confirms a HPP reservation. I'm thinking that the money that HRC receives from deeded week owners is allocated and spent on specific line items in the MF breakdown - so HRC doesn't have extra money to pay HPP for a week. The only extra money thrown in on an HPP reservation that I'm aware of the $60 cleaning fee - and that comes from the individual that uses the reservation.

Maybe this will all become abundantly clear on January 29, but I'm not holding my breath. Would be interested in hearing what the Go Hyatt staff tells you/others when asked "Do HPP owners have instant access to a HRC owned week when it rolls from HRPP to CUP at the 6 month mark or when a HRC owner converts their HRPP unit to CUP when confirmed into a different property or week then what they own?"

 

[lizap]

Agreed that the HRC and HPP are completely different ownership programs and that HRC is a strong product and HPP is currently an under performing product. Again, hope I'm wrong, but when the Go Hyatt staff explain the system reservation rules and you can see that bear out on your computer screen via the online Hyatt website, it adds credence to the veracity of their comments (unlike a TS salesman that talks but doesn't really say anything). Not saying that every Go Hyatt staff is omniscient, but have found far more of them to be knowledge/accurate on things Hyatt than not (especially when compared to a TS salesman).

RE: ILG overbought through ROFR last year, has far too much inventory available in HPP with too few owners, and has—at least temporarily—allowed HRC owners to get access simply to offset the huge costs that ILG is incurring by owning those HPP units and continuing to pay maintenance costs on them. Is this confirmed info or conjecture? While possible, it would be interesting to learn how HRC pays or transfers money to the HPP balance sheet when an HRC owner confirms a HPP reservation. I'm thinking that the money that HRC receives from deeded week owners is allocated and spent on specific line items in the MF breakdown - so HRC doesn't have extra money to pay HPP for a week. The only extra money thrown in on an HPP reservation that I'm aware of the $60 cleaning fee - and that comes from the individual that uses the reservation.

Maybe this will all become abundantly clear on January 29, but I'm not holding my breath. Would be interested in hearing what the Go Hyatt staff tells you/others when asked "Do HPP owners have instant access to a HRC owned week when it rolls from HRPP to CUP at the 6 month mark or when a HRC owner converts their HRPP unit to CUP when confirmed into a different property or week then what they own?"

I still believe there's a decent chance that Hyatt's plan has always been to allow HRC owners to convert to HPP on a yearly basis for a nominal fee, ala Marriott. That would take care of any HPC inventory problem they might ever have. I believe their first approach was to see how many HRC owners they could sucker into paying ridiculous amounts of money to convert.

 

[Sapper]

I'd agree that the HRC and HPP are separate stacks of inventory, catering to different folks (assuming someone does not own in both). I am actually fine with both having access to the others inventory at the six month mark. As long as it stays with both having access. When / IF one has access to the others inventory with out reciprocal access, then I have an issue. However, at this point, for whatever reason, it seems to be a fair and equal situation. As has been pointed out, this may change, and it may change on the 29th, or it may change in a few years (assuming the HPP ever becomes popular enough to be self sustaining). For now, I'm ok with it.

* Fair disclosure, I used my HRC points to book an HPP unit at Carmel for March, so I may be a tad biased right now.

 

[Kal]

We can split hairs on HPP access to HRC units at the time the HRPP status moves to CUP. The key point is the request list. Immediately upon expiration of the HRPP (or whenever the unit moves to CUP status), the system first looks to the request list and the person with the highest status is granted the reservation. This all happens electronically. For any situation where there is a wait list request, the only opportunity for HPP access is after the wait list process is complete or be on the wait list. However, if there is no wait list, the HPP request could be filled as the unit is in the "available" status.

So actually, the words from Hyatt are mostly trivial speak. As we earlier had presumed, HPP would only have access to HRC units deposited or existing in the HPP system. It would appear HPP could have access to legacy units, provided they get on the request list just like all the legacy HRC owners do in obtaining reservations.

I'll get better clarification on this in a couple of weeks when I participate in the "owners update sporting event".

http://www.bywindkal.com/music/Ready.mp3 <<<=======

 

[WalnutBaron]

I'll get better clarification on this in a couple of weeks when I participate in the "owners update sporting event".

Wow, Kal, your report on that might be better entertainment than tuning into the Super Bowl

 

[heathpack]

* Fair disclosure, I used my HRC points to book an HPP unit at Carmel for March, so I may be a tad biased right now.

Damn, if you’re the one who snagged that 2BR three night stay that I was trying to book, I am so annoyed!


We’re there March 11-18, message me if we’ll over lap.

 

[Sapper]

Damn, if you’re the one who snagged that 2BR three night stay that I was trying to book, I am so annoyed!


We’re there March 11-18, message me if we’ll over lap.

HAHA, wasn't me. I grabbed a one bedroom for four nights, 8th-12th. I'll PM you.

 

[bdh]

We can split hairs on HPP access to HRC units at the time the HRPP status moves to CUP. The key point is the request list. Immediately upon expiration of the HRPP (or whenever the unit moves to CUP status), the system first looks to the request list and the person with the highest status is granted the reservation. This all happens electronically. For any situation where there is a wait list request, the only opportunity for HPP access is after the wait list process is complete or be on the wait list. However, if there is no wait list, the HPP request could be filled as the unit is in the "available" status.

So actually, the words from Hyatt are mostly trivial speak. As we earlier had presumed, HPP would only have access to HRC units deposited or existing in the HPP system. It would appear HPP could have access to legacy units, provided they get on the request list just like all the legacy HRC owners do in obtaining reservations.

I'll get better clarification on this in a couple of weeks when I participate in the "owners update sporting event".

While at the "owner update sporting event", see if the sales staff at your sales location provide the same info on HPP access to HRC that the Coconut Plantation staff stated. HPP access to HRC units via the request list just like all the legacy HRC owners is a vastly different scenario than access to HRC units only when a legacy HRC owner converts a deeded week in any given year to the HPP system.

The best part of the sporting event is that you have front row seats and they pay you to attend!! Enjoy the game and let us know who wins!