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VAC/ILG shareholder activism speculation [THREAD CLOSED]

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CalGalTraveler

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IMHO...this is why I distrust Trust / Points systems without a specific week deed underlying the ownership. Too many opportunities for the developer to play games and devalue the system. MVC Weeks owners who enroll in DC and HGVC owners who have points with an underlying deed to a specific property, are more protected because they can always can fall back to using/renting/exchanging their deeded ownership and avoid the gaming if developers get too greedy.
 
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Bunk

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Assuming that the Hyatt and Vidanta timeshares are of comparable or better quality to MVC, would it make any sense for the DC Trust to take title to the unsold Hyatt and Vidanta shares. Then MVC can try to get Hyatt and Vidanta owners to buy into the DC Trust. Or in the alternative, what if MVC set up a super trust, which would provide that owners who paid even more money to MVC could enroll in the Super Trust and have access to all units, while the access of the others would be restricted to the timeshare that they purchased.
 
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dioxide45

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Assuming that the Hyatt and Vidanta timeshares are of comparable or better quality to MVC, would it make any sense for the DVC Trust to take title to the unsold Hyatt and Vidanta shares. Then MVC can try to get Hyatt and Vidanta owners to buy into the DVC Trust. Or in the alternative, what if MVC set up a super trust, which would provide that owners who paid even more money to MVC could enroll in the Super Trust and have access to all units, while the access of the others would be restricted to the timeshare that they purchased.
This would be ideal for the long term in trying to create a single product. The problem is that Vistana has a bunch of small points programs inside of the larger program. I believe Hyatt is moving to a pure poionts trust product. They would be starting out with a fractured program. Over time they could streamline things more within the DC product, it just won't be easy. I am sure that Hyatt won't like the arrangement. If it happens, I suspect those resorts won't be carrying that name.
 

vikingsholm

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This would be ideal for the long term in trying to create a single product. The problem is that Vistana has a bunch of small points programs inside of the larger program. I believe Hyatt is moving to a pure poionts trust product. They would be starting out with a fractured program. Over time they could streamline things more within the DC product, it just won't be easy. I am sure that Hyatt won't like the arrangement. If it happens, I suspect those resorts won't be carrying that name.
I agree that Hyatt would probably want its name removed if this were to happen. But Marriott could still go ahead and rename the Hyatts to something else and group them separately (like Ritz timeshares are now in the DC), and integrate them into the overall Marriott DC points program, unless there is some clause in the current II/Hyatt agreement that would obstruct or prevent that. I imagine that Marriott could find a way to eventually integrate Hyatt and Vistana in some fashion if they complete the acquisition and want to do that.
 

dioxide45

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The only issue is possible penalties to buy their way out of the Hyatt license agreement. I am sure that Hyatt is liking the flow of free money for simply using their name. Getting out of that might be costly.
 

pwrshift

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Yes, MVW can manipulate II and other inventory through the DC Exchange Company in order to fulfill reservation requests from DC Members. That doesn't benefit the Trust to which Weeks have been permanently conveyed to seed the DC Trust Points pool, but instead benefits all DC Members - Trust and Exchange/Enrolled Members - who reserve intervals via the DC Exchange Company using DC Points.

I've noticed an attitude change in my dealings with Marriott owners lately. Before Irma I tried to book a studio week next year at BeachPlace during Spring Break using my Chairman discount status code 2vc and there were no availabilities unless I paid their prime time rate per day...about $500 a night, and this was months ago. I suspect any unsold weeks will go to DC members not weeks owners...and if you deposit it to II Marriott grabs them.

In addition, as an owner at Beachplace and concerned about the 'health' of the building I think they should have at least sent an email to all owners weekly since the hurricane damage just to keep us advised on the damage and repair progress. I posted on the BP Facebook page that request and got a snippy reply from the person answering on their FB page. When I called the front desk person said only some rooms on six floors were open...that was about 2 weeks ago so hopefully it's better now. Regardless, I think owners of BP should be kept up to date. Would also be nice to know if the damage was covered by insurance and not increased MF.
 

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Should this thread be closed or merged with the more recent threads on this topic?

[DONE - I just moved a short thread of 5-6 posts from the "All Other Timeshare Systems" and I just merged them with the thread on the same topic in the Marriott forum.]
 
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dagger1

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Shouldn’t affect our fixed weeks/units at HWOR and HMSS... Wonder how it will affect our (floating) EOYO MKO?
 

dioxide45

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Should this thread be closed or merged with the more recent threads on this topic?
What other threads are there? I checked the first page of the Marriott forum and didn't see anything else. I am still not aware that there is any official announcement, still just rumors. I know there are threads in the Vistana and Hyatt forums, but I am not sure it is appropriate to merge this thread with those.
 

DeniseM

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What other threads are there? I checked the first page of the Marriott forum and didn't see anything else. I am still not aware that there is any official announcement, still just rumors. I know there are threads in the Vistana and Hyatt forums, but I am not sure it is appropriate to merge this thread with those.

I was still merging - I have since added a note in post #133. :hi:
 

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*That* was my 1,000 post?!? Jeez. Way to be impressive. *headdesk*

/move along, nothing to see here....
 

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IMHO...this is why I distrust Trust / Points systems without a specific week deed underlying the ownership. Too many opportunities for the developer to play games and devalue the system. MVC Weeks owners who enroll in DC and HGVC owners who have points with an underlying deed to a specific property, are more protected because they can always can fall back to using/renting/exchanging their deeded ownership and avoid the gaming if developers get too greedy.


I worked for Marriott for 5 years at Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert Ca. The points are vastly superior to weeks. No exchange needed. You just pay more points for better locations and better times of year. You can get into properties a HELL of a lot easier because the unsold inventory is what the points are sold against. The more the owners use for The Masters, Cruises and Safaris and not staying at their home resort, the more inventory. You can rent the property easier because now you can actually reserve the time you want to rent 12 and 13 months out at ANY PROPERTY not just your home resort and hope you get it in time on that 6am phone call to owner services.

And mind you the points are frozen deeded just like weeks.... POINTS are waayyyyyy better. Timeshare was a ton easier to sell though.. Simpler concept but tougher to use.
 
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bazzap

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I worked for Marriott for 5 years at Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert Ca. The points are vastly superior to weeks. No exchange needed. You just pay more points for better locations and better times of year. You can get into properties a HELL of a lot easier because the unsold inventory is what the points are sold against. The more the owners use for The Masters, Cruises and Safaris and not staying at their home resort, the more inventory. You can rent the property easier because now you can actually reserve the time you want to rent 12 and 13 months out at ANY PROPERTY not just your home resort and hope you get it in time on that 6am phone call to owner services.

And mind you the points are frozen deeded just like weeks.... POINTS are waayyyyyy better. Timeshare was a ton easier to sell though.. Simpler concept but tougher to use.
As an enrolled weeks owner (with access to well over 20K DC points) I do find the added benefits and flexibility of points useful, especially for booking different periods at resorts/times with lower points demand.
It is also good not to have to depend on Interval, although exchanges with them are still working well for me.
“Vastly superior”... “waayyyyyy better” though, that is definitely not my experience.
I have still at times had to go on a waitlist when trying to make a points booking, whilst I have always been able to book my home weeks at 13 months out.
Using weeks has also been at a lower cost (both purchase and MFs), lower equivalent points value, with higher priority for villa preference at home resorts and I also have the advantage of lock off units.
 
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dioxide45

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I worked for Marriott for 5 years at Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert Ca. The points are vastly superior to weeks. No exchange needed. You just pay more points for better locations and better times of year. You can get into properties a HELL of a lot easier because the unsold inventory is what the points are sold against. The more the owners use for The Masters, Cruises and Safaris and not staying at their home resort, the more inventory. You can rent the property easier because now you can actually reserve the time you want to rent 12 and 13 months out at ANY PROPERTY not just your home resort and hope you get it in time on that 6am phone call to owner services.

And mind you the points are frozen deeded just like weeks.... POINTS are waayyyyyy better. Timeshare was a ton easier to sell though.. Simpler concept but tougher to use.
I find it hard to beleive that Marriott is simply putting all inventory converted to explorer and cruises in to the exchange company for everyone to grab. According to MVCs earnings reporting, they are earning a large amount of money from rentals. That means they are actually renting out unsold inventory and the inventory converted to cruises and explorer. They have a need to monetize the inventory obtained from people booking explorer and cruises because Marriott pays actual cash to book those, they can't afford to just give that inventory back to owners through exchanges for nothing.

I do agree that booking in points is much easier as there is usually decent availability. The problem is that for Trust Point owners, it doesn't come cheap and can't beat the affordability of weeks.
 
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mjm1

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We met with a sales rep at MOC yesterday and she was very positive that MVC would complete the purchase of ILG. Time will tell if it happens and I take what she said with a grain of salt, as usual. She indicated that they want the Vistana and Hyatt properties in the system, but not II. Any unsold inventory of each system, as well as any ROFR, etc. activity, would be put into the DC Trust. Otherwise, those systems would be run as usual.

Again, time will tell.

Best regards.

Mike
 

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We met with a sales rep at MOC yesterday and she was very positive that MVC would complete the purchase of ILG. Time will tell if it happens and I take what she said with a grain of salt, as usual. She indicated that they want the Vistana and Hyatt properties in the system, but not II. Any unsold inventory of each system, as well as any ROFR, etc. activity, would be put into the DC Trust. Otherwise, those systems would be run as usual.

Again, time will tell.

Best regards.

Mike
Hmm Mike, that's a bit puzzling. I'm surprised that if the head of MVC is not even going to comment on whether this acquisition is under consideration that they would not tell their sales agents to not speculate about it yet publicly. Yet I understand the impetus for saying anything to help make a sale.

The comment about MVC not wanting II is a bit odd too. I presume that means not operating the overall II trading system, but just focusing on obtaining Vistana and Hyatt properties? It's hard to imagine having only RCI as the sole remaining trading company that would have a large number of properties trading (what an ugly near monopoly that would be...), and Marriott dropping the rest of the II trading/renting infrastructure to just own Vistana and Hyatt (running them "as usual" also infers that they wouldn't be fully integrated into an internal Marriott trading/points system). So I'm seeing some grains of salt to be taken there also.
 

Fasttr

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Hmm Mike, that's a bit puzzling. I'm surprised that if the head of MVC is not even going to comment on whether this acquisition is under consideration that they would not tell their sales agents to not speculate about it yet publicly. Yet I understand the impetus for saying anything to help make a sale.

The comment about MVC not wanting II is a bit odd too. I presume that means not operating the overall II trading system, but just focusing on obtaining Vistana and Hyatt properties? It's hard to imagine having only RCI as the sole remaining trading company that would have a large number of properties trading (what an ugly near monopoly that would be...), and Marriott dropping the rest of the II trading/renting infrastructure to just own Vistana and Hyatt (running them "as usual" also infers that they wouldn't be fully integrated into an internal Marriott trading/points system). So I'm seeing some grains of salt to be taken there also.
"Not Interested in II" could simply mean that after such an acquisition, they could then sell off just the II business, keeping the segments they do want.
 
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vikingsholm

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"Not Interested in II" could simply mean that after such an acquisitions, they could then sell off just the II business, keeping the segments they do want.
Yeah, that does make a lot more sense than just folding it. Seems like a lot of hassle and risk just to acquire Vistana and Hyatt though.
 

mjm1

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Hmm Mike, that's a bit puzzling. I'm surprised that if the head of MVC is not even going to comment on whether this acquisition is under consideration that they would not tell their sales agents to not speculate about it yet publicly. Yet I understand the impetus for saying anything to help make a sale.

The comment about MVC not wanting II is a bit odd too. I presume that means not operating the overall II trading system, but just focusing on obtaining Vistana and Hyatt properties? It's hard to imagine having only RCI as the sole remaining trading company that would have a large number of properties trading (what an ugly near monopoly that would be...), and Marriott dropping the rest of the II trading/renting infrastructure to just own Vistana and Hyatt (running them "as usual" also infers that they wouldn't be fully integrated into an internal Marriott trading/points system). So I'm seeing some grains of salt to be taken there also.

"Not Interested in II" could simply mean that after such an acquisition, they could then sell off just the II business, keeping the segments they do want.

Yeah, that does make a lot more sense than just folding it. Seems like a lot of hassle and risk just to acquire Vistana and Hyatt though.

Yes, I took the comment to mean they would spin off or sell II, or it wouldn’t be included in the transaction. I agree that it is odd a sales person would comment on it when the CEO won’t. Then again, she is trying to make a sale and make the program sound better than it is, so I am not surprised she did it.

She also indicated that they had to let an 18 month window pass before they could do anything. As I recall she said there is another 5 months or so to go.

Mike
 

dioxide45

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I am not sure it would make sense to spin off the exchange business, it is a pure fee for service revenue structure with low capital requirements. If Marriott wanted just Vistana and Hyatt so bad, why didn't they bid for them when they were on the selling block?
 

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I am not sure it would make sense to spin off the exchange business, it is a pure fee for service revenue structure with low capital requirements. If Marriott wanted just Vistana and Hyatt so bad, why didn't they bid for them when they were on the selling block?

I'm with Dioxide on this one -- I think Marriott wants the recurring (stable) revenue streams from the exchange business plus however it can leverage the different timeshare systems. I still think they will be separate.

Also, all the rumors about Marriott switching to RCI? That could also be a reaction to the merger discussions -- Marriott has to dislike any appreciation in the ILG stock price, and what better way to put pressure on ILG stock price then to threaten to leave?

I vote with whoever said it first -- I bet nothing happens and we have status quo for awhile. Mergers are hard to negotiate (and value) and now there is more visibility on it than Marriott wanted. We will see.....

Best,

Greg
 

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Meanwhile, VAC stock has hit record highs this week....
 

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Has anyone heard anything new?
 

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We were at the Waikoloa property a few weeks ago and they didn’t have any additional insights. However, one sales rep at MOC said they had to wait until next spring when an 18 month t8me frame related to the ILG- Starwood transaction passed.

Best regards.

Mike
 
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