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Points reservations at properties closed due to hurricane damage

GregT

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All,

Does anyone else have a DC Points reservation at a property that is closed due to a hurricane? I have a Ritz STT reservation for next month and just got an email indicating that the property will be closed until March 2, 2018. I have a reservation next month for a week, crossing Thanksgiving.

What is interesting is that Marriott is telling me that my points from the soon-to-be-canceled reservation will be restricted points, per their standard cancelation policy. I'm really surprised they aren't making an exception to their policy for this unusual circumstance and I have asked for confirmation of this from Customer Advocacy. I had thought they would make the points unrestricted, at a minimum. Westin really set the bar by extending the life of their StarOptions, to help their owners.

Considering that I am 0-for-alot at persuading Customer Advocacy of the merits of my positions, I expect to end up with a bunch of holding points that are near worthless to the way I travel.

I was curious if anyone else is in the same position?

Best,

Greg
 

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Based on MVC's actions in everything related to the hurricane damage, this isn't surprising. Corporations show their true stripes in situations like this. All MVC has done is leverage their power to make sure they don't lose any sales opportunities, while showing they could care less about their customers/owners. They create their own 'rules' and show no consideration for the losses encountered by their loyal owners. They could easily show flexibility in this type of situation, but they prefer to enforce their policies because they can earn a few more dollars on your lost points, and they can justify this by the 'policy'.

I need to spend 180k MR points to salvage a vacation that involved a cancelled II exchange (which I learned my insurance wouldn't cover due to fine print). They could easily provide some MR points to ease the pain, but they would rather uphold their new policy (which was never communicated or justified and may breach their inventory management contract).

You can always use those expiring points to buy the MVC travel insurance, which by the way would not have covered this trip because the damage occurred more than 30 days prior to your reservation. I really expected more from a Marriott related company due to the family legacy, but the new MVC is making me regret my significant investment for my future travel.
 
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mjm1

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Greg, I am sorry to hear that. Hopefully you receive a positive response and they help you out. You didn’t cancel your reservations, so it seems that your points shouldn’t be restricted. Good luck. I look forward to hearing the outcome.

Best regards.

Mike
 

urfriend

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All,

Does anyone else have a DC Points reservation at a property that is closed due to a hurricane? I have a Ritz STT reservation for next month and just got an email indicating that the property will be closed until March 2, 2018. I have a reservation next month for a week, crossing Thanksgiving.

What is interesting is that Marriott is telling me that my points from the soon-to-be-canceled reservation will be restricted points, per their standard cancelation policy. I'm really surprised they aren't making an exception to their policy for this unusual circumstance and I have asked for confirmation of this from Customer Advocacy. I had thought they would make the points unrestricted, at a minimum. Westin really set the bar by extending the life of their StarOptions, to help their owners.

Considering that I am 0-for-alot at persuading Customer Advocacy of the merits of my positions, I expect to end up with a bunch of holding points that are near worthless to the way I travel.

I was curious if anyone else is in the same position?

Best,

Greg
Greg, Unfortunately, that is the case. Marriott has a strict policy when it comes to cancellations. If any reservation is canceled within 60 days of arrival, regardless if Marriott closes the resort due to a catastrophic event. If you are using your week and you don't have Travel X you loose your week. If you are using DCP you get holding account points which have restrictions. Even if you do have the insurance you have to file a claim and it is a monetary reimbursement. You may want to write an email to owner.services@vacationclub.com and ask if there are any exceptions they can make on your points. So sorry about your frustrations with this.
 

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I think MVC needs to change the name of their 'Customer Advocacy' department to 'Customer Control', based on all of their actions. I've not yet seen any advocacy in my interactions with them as they are all driven by policy and rules. If my company treated customers this way, we would be out of business.
 

GregT

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Are you points also restricted to 2017?
I'm not sure yet, I will find out when Marriott cancels my reservation. I will keep TUG apprised.

Urfriend, thanks for the unofficial confirmation.

Chief, totally agree.

Best,

Greg
 

GregT

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This is what Westin did in the same situation - I bolded the part that is a special exception benefit to the owners, because banked points only have two year life in Starwood (versus the 3 year life offered). The other stuff is normal terms.

Bravo Westin!!


"In order to proceed with these efforts, the recovery process requires the cancellation of all scheduled reservation arrivals through June 30, 2018. At this time, no new reservations are being accepted for 2018. As we make progress, we will communicate updates should these dates change.

Although you are unable to occupy, deposit or convert your ownership, we are providing alternatives to help you preserve your 2018 vacation:
  • Reserve a Vistana Signature Network reservation for a stay at one of our other 20 network resorts; OR
  • Bank your 2018 Use Year StarOptions with no transaction fee, which are valid for use through December 31, 2021; OR
  • Assign your Weeks or Points Use Right with the full trading power of your Home Resort interval with Interval International(1) for use through December 31, 2020. While there is no fee to assign your week, at the time you initiate a vacation exchange request, Interval will collect its current exchange fee.(2)
In addition to the above choices, you may purchase an SPG Starpoints package (up to 110,000 Starpoints) at a preferred rate that can be redeemed at over 1,300 hotels and resorts worldwide (package valid for six years from issuance and subject to the terms and conditions of the SPG program)."
 
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Superchief

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As a follow up, the people in the Customer Advocacy department may be trying to communicate our concerns, but it could be that MVC management doesn't want to address them. I guess I shouldn't shoot the messenger because I've been in that situation many times myself. However, it is clear that MVC management is more concerned about controlling things than they are about the impact of their decisions on owners. I have not yet seen any flexibility or actions on their part to 'compromise' in circumstances in which they can lessen the impact of cancellations due to the storm. At least Marriott Hotels give you MR points in these types of situations. It would be easy for MVC to let you have your points back as regular points at little cost to them.
 

JIMinNC

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As a follow up, the people in the Customer Advocacy department may be trying to communicate our concerns, but it could be that MVC management doesn't want to address them. I guess I shouldn't shoot the messenger because I've been in that situation many times myself. However, it is clear that MVC management is more concerned about controlling things than they are about the impact of their decisions on owners. I have not yet seen any flexibility or actions on their part to 'compromise' in circumstances in which they can lessen the impact of cancellations due to the storm. At least Marriott Hotels give you MR points in these types of situations. It would be easy for MVC to let you have your points back as regular points at little cost to them.

This is spot-on.

Reading GregT's posts, it's clear that Vistana has taken an approach that recognizes the pain caused by the hurricane should be shared amongst all parties. Owners and guests were/will continue to be inconvenienced, but Vistana has decided to share some of that pain with their owners by making some exceptions to the rules, extending point expirations, etc. By contrast, Marriott Vacations Worldwide has taken the position that "the rules are the rules" and all pain/inconvenience must be borne by the owner/guest, or by an external company like II that seems to be trying to offer some reasonable options like replacement weeks. MVW hasn't been willing to take on some of the pain themselves to try to mitigate at least some of their owners' inconvenience. All they have done is just decided which owners/guests they want to accommodate and forced those that get cancelled to bear the total burden. They picked the winners and losers amongst their owners/guests, but seem unwilling to share some of the "loss".

It can be argued that, in the case of our situation with our cancelled II exchange last month at Grand Ocean, the company that should offer any restitution was II and not Marriott. So, in our situation, you can argue that we were made largely whole by the correct party. But in GregT's situation, since Destination Points are involved, Marriott Vacation Club is the only entity involved. Any restitution must come from them. So, their position that standard cancellation rules apply places the entire loss/pain on the DP owner. I find that position even more objectionable than their reaction to our situation.
 

Superchief

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This is spot-on.

Reading GregT's posts, it's clear that Vistana has taken an approach that recognizes the pain caused by the hurricane should be shared amongst all parties. Owners and guests were/will continue to be inconvenienced, but Vistana has decided to share some of that pain with their owners by making some exceptions to the rules, extending point expirations, etc. By contrast, Marriott Vacations Worldwide has taken the position that "the rules are the rules" and all pain/inconvenience must be borne by the owner/guest, or by an external company like II that seems to be trying to offer some reasonable options like replacement weeks. MVW hasn't been willing to take on some of the pain themselves to try to mitigate at least some of their owners' inconvenience. All they have done is just decided which owners/guests they want to accommodate and forced those that get cancelled to bear the total burden. They picked the winners and losers amongst their owners/guests, but seem unwilling to share some of the "loss".

It can be argued that, in the case of our situation with our cancelled II exchange last month at Grand Ocean, the company that should offer any restitution was II and not Marriott. So, in our situation, you can argue that we were made largely whole by the correct party. But in GregT's situation, since Destination Points are involved, Marriott Vacation Club is the only entity involved. Any restitution must come from them. So, their position that standard cancellation rules apply places the entire loss/pain on the DP owner. I find that position even more objectionable than their reaction to our situation.
Not only did they not help, they actually made the situation worse for everyone by insisting Encore Package reservations be accommodated. In the posting on the Ocean Pointe owners website, the poster indicated the resort was only 30% operating capacity during their visit. I'm confident that MVC's owned inventory (from MR point redemptions or cash) does not support this decision. This is an example that should provide evidence that MVC is breaching their contract for inventory management.
 

dioxide45

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I am very disappointed with how Marriott has handled the whole situation, especially as compared to Vistana. There is really no incremental costs associated with granting extension of use and not restricting the cancelled points to 60 days. Same with providing owners to bank their points in these situations even though it is past the normal deadline. Vistana still seems to have their owner's interests in mind where it seems Marriott only has their profits and corporate interest in mind. It would seem that Marriott wants to save as much of the slack and breakage for their own profit.
 

vacationtime1

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This may sound facetious, but who cancelled the reservation? I don't think it was GregT; I think it was Marriott.

What is the precise wording of Marriott's cancellation provision? The purpose is obviously to prevent abuse by owners canceling at the last moment and the wording may then logically punish owners when it is the owner who cancels. I am not suggesting that Marriott didn't have good cause to cancel; I am suggesting that its written policy simply does not apply to this situation (not "should not" apply, but rather "does not" apply).

Otherwise, Marriott could cancel any reservation with impunity -- and then restrict the owner's re-use of the points originally used to make that reservation.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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In all seriousness, what is to stop Marriott from cancelling any reservation with impunity - and then restrict the owner's re-use of the points originally used to make that reservation, no matter what the Docs say? The only recourse is a lawsuit for breach of contract. Who can afford that?
 

GregT

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Well, here it is......straight from Director of Customer Advocacy....

"Good morning,

Thank you for your email. Yes, it is true that any reservations coming within the 60 day window that are interrupted due to damage caused by Hurricane Irma will be cancelled by Owner Services. The points tied to the reservation are returned as holding points and may be used for another booking in the same use year. While I would love to reschedule everyone who has been impacted, we simply do not have enough inventory to move all of these reservations without it impacting ownership stays in 2018. I am truly sorry for the disruption to your travel plans caused by Hurricane Irma."
 
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tschwa2

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But then again most weeks owners through Marriott or Vistana simply have there reservations cancelled and are out the week when there is a storm, natural disaster or such. You can't read anything into Vistana allowing points expiration to be extended. Maybe there weren't that many affected and they did a one time cutesy, it isn't part of their written policy and no guarantee they will do the same next time. There are vacation insurance providers that have policies that cover these things. You need to figure out which ones do especially if you are booking in the Southern east coast, gulf, Mexico, and Caribbean during times of extreme weather. Timeshares aren't hotels and unfortunately they are use it or lose it and "acts of god" are usually listed as cause to lose your use without compensation of any kind.
 

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Well, here it is......straight from Director of Customer Advocacy....

"Good morning Mr. Tibbitts,

Thank you for your email. Yes, it is true that any reservations coming within the 60 day window that are interrupted due to damage caused by Hurricane Irma will be cancelled by Owner Services. The points tied to the reservation are returned as holding points and may be used for another booking in the same use year. While I would love to reschedule everyone who has been impacted, we simply do not have enough inventory to move all of these reservations without it impacting ownership stays in 2018. I am truly sorry for the disruption to your travel plans caused by Hurricane Irma."
You should point out that they have enough inventory to honor their Encore reservations at other damaged resorts, and that their competitors are being more reasonable with their owners. I think the only way to get MVC management to change their selfish decision making is for owners to pursue legal action regarding breach of inventory contract commitments. This would at least force them to provide details regarding how they allocated the limited inventory.
 

GregT

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This was my response:

"Ray, thank you for the response, and I must admit, that is a disappointing solution, as other timeshare systems have sought to accommodate their owners.

Can you tell me if this is the guidance? From Exchange Procedures (attached) Thank you

D. Cancellations and No-Shows.

1. If a Member wishes to cancel or release a confirmed reservation of a Use Period, and Exchange Company receives written cancellation (or other means of verifiable communication acceptable to Exchange Company) at least sixty-one (61) days prior to the first day of such confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply, and such cancellation will result in unrestricted restoration of the related Exchange Points to the Member for further use during that Use Year; provided, however, that in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will be restored to the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures.

2. If Exchange Company receives written cancellation sixty (60) days or less prior to the first day of a confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply; however, such cancellation will result in assignment of the related Exchange Points to the Member’s Holding Account, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures; provided, however, that in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will not be restored and will be forfeited by the Member."
 

bazzap

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Well, here it is......straight from Director of Customer Advocacy....

"Good morning Mr. Tibbitts,

Thank you for your email. Yes, it is true that any reservations coming within the 60 day window that are interrupted due to damage caused by Hurricane Irma will be cancelled by Owner Services. The points tied to the reservation are returned as holding points and may be used for another booking in the same use year. While I would love to reschedule everyone who has been impacted, we simply do not have enough inventory to move all of these reservations without it impacting ownership stays in 2018. I am truly sorry for the disruption to your travel plans caused by Hurricane Irma."
Very disappointing for you (and others affected)
I do wonder what happens if there is no alternative inventory availability which you are able to use during the restricted holding points period.
It would certainly have been a major issue for us if our Caribbean weeks had been affected, with long haul flights being required from Europe for almost all other MVC resort options.
I really do believe the usage time restriction is unacceptable.
 

klpca

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Wasn't the whole point of the points program to provide flexibility for users - both individual and corporate? Couldn't these points be used for alternate usage, ie, non-weeks based usage such as the heavily promoted safaris? ;) Couldn't they allow you to save these points to use in a future period? This is so punitive. You have already paid the maintenance fees for these points! Sorry Greg. This sucks.
 

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It will be interesting to see their reply. I haven't seen any 'term definition' regarding situations where MVC cancels the reservation.
 

GregT

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I'm not sure I expect a formal response, I think they will duck my query.

His comment that they don't have sufficient inventory is amusing, considering that skimming creates inventory. And if they extended the points for additional periods of time (like Westin did), then that would provide additional time for that inventory to be absorbed. Truly, they just don't think it is a necessary accommodation and they dislike creating precedents.

Best,

Greg
 

mjm1

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Greg, sorry to hear their response and the negative impact on you and others. It’s too bad the points you used weren’t borrowed from 2018. If they were, they would be returned to 2018 for usage. Of course, based on the explanation, they would still be restricted.

If Kauai Lagoons or another desired resort is available through the Escapes program for a time frame that works for you, that could be an option. Probably unlikely for Thanksgiving though.

Best regards.

Mike
 

dioxide45

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I'm not sure I expect a formal response, I think they will duck my query.

His comment that they don't have sufficient inventory is amusing, considering that skimming creates inventory. And if they extended the points for additional periods of time (like Westin did), then that would provide additional time for that inventory to be absorbed. Truly, they just don't think it is a necessary accommodation and they dislike creating precedents.

Best,

Greg
They didn't have a problem creating precedents in HHI by moving people to different resorts.
 
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