HGVC - buy large or 2 small

[DazedandConfused]

If you are buying HGVC just for points, and not for location, is it better to buy one 14,400 or 12,600 or 10,500 or 9,600 point contract

or

Is it better to buy a combination of two or three smaller contracts to get close to what you need such as two 7,000 contracts or two 5,000 point contracts

For some reason the larger point contracts seem to be priced above what the cost of two smaller contract will sell for.

 

[2disneydads]

The secret is maintenance fees. One large contract likely will have lower overall maintenance fees than multiple smaller ones. Try to project out a few years to see what costs more in the long run. Multiple small contacts also have multiple closing costs.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[Sandy VDH]

3 components to price

1) sale price

2) $MF/pt

3) # of closing / transfer fees you have to pay, since HGVC has updated the transfer fee to now over $560, plus there are other fees, you have too many of these and you will kill any short term gains received by a cheap deal.

If It were me, balance of Platinum weeks(s) in limited in number of contracts. There is NO magic number of contracts, it is just the best deal YOU can LIVE with.

 

[seagila]

A pro to buying multiple contracts to get to your desired point ownership now is that you can also divest yourself slowly of your points/contracts somewhere down the road, if you need to slow down your travel/exchanges in the HGVC system. Very few members would probably put a value to this because as has already been said, it's mainly about the MFs/points you're getting in your contract(s) for most members.

Example: 14,400 points at Kings Land vs (2) 7,000 points at LV Blvd or Seaworld. Kings Land would be a better value now, but if you anticipate slowing down in your exchanges, it might be easier to sell one of the 7,000-point contract. Either that or sell your 14,400-point contract and find a lower point contract to buy when the time comes. Who knows what the market will be like then and what HGVC will be charging to transfer ownership.

Just something to consider.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Example: 14,400 points at Kings Land vs (2) 7,000 points at LV Blvd or Seaworld. Kings Land would be a better value now, but if you anticipate slowing down in your exchanges, it might be easier to sell one of the 7,000-point contract. Either that or sell your 14,400-point contract and find a lower point contract to buy when the time comes. Who knows what the market will be like then and what HGVC will be charging to transfer ownership.

That's exactly what I was looking at. With DVC, the larger points are much cheaper in terms of $/point than smaller ones - but the opposite is true for Hilton.

 

[Helaine]

That's exactly what I was looking at. With DVC, the larger points are much cheaper in terms of $/point than smaller ones - but the opposite is true for Hilton.

That's not completely accurate. Here's a listing of the 30 cheapest units - most are 2 BR, some are 3 BR. 4 out of 30 are 1 BR.

Post number 35:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/2017-hgvc-resorts-with-the-lowest-mfs.249249/page-2

 

[DazedandConfused]

That's not completely accurate. Here's a listing of the 30 cheapest units - most are 2 BR, some are 3 BR. 4 out of 30 are 1 BR.

I do not see any listings.....

 

[Sandy VDH]

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index....ith-the-lowest-mfs.249249/page-2#post-1957420

Try this...

 

[seagila]

That's exactly what I was looking at. With DVC, the larger points are much cheaper in terms of $/point than smaller ones - but the opposite is true for Hilton.

I'm also a Disney Vacation Club (DVC) owner, so I think I know what you're describing.

In DVC, the 25-point or 50-point contracts fetch a higher premium per point than the 150-point or even 300-point contracts. It's because DVC points are expensive to begin with, so the lower point contracts are in higher demand because they're more affordable upfront and the vacation patterns of DVC members are quite different than most in the timesharing world.

Hypothetical Example: DVC 50-point contract at $100/point vs DVC 300-point contract at $80/point.

The 300-point contract is cheaper per point, but will cost you $24,000 upfront vs $5,000 for the 50-point contract. For many but the most die-hard disneyphiles, a 50-point contract is enough to enjoy some days at a Disney resort, because DVC lets you bank and borrow for free. You can pool your 50-point contract Use Years and effectively have 150 points to use. Granted, you'll have a couple of years where you're not able to go to a DVC resort, but for many that's enough Disney magic to last them until they can pool their points again for another Disney vacation. Die-hard disneyphiles will probably want to go every year for longer stretches and are willing to pay the higher upfront costs.

Many HGVC owners on the other hand want to vacation more frequently, for longer periods of time, in premium units (oceanfront/ocean view vs standard view). This requires more HGVC points. That's why many HGVC owners are willing to pay a higher upfront cost for the larger point contracts of the newer resorts, because their MFs/points tend to be a better value in the long-term. This creates a higher demand for the larger contracts that have low MFs.

Just my observation comparing the two clubs.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Here's a listing of the 30 cheapest units - most are 2 BR, some are 3 BR. 4 out of 30 are 1 BR.

Post number 35:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/2017-hgvc-resorts-with-the-lowest-mfs.249249/page-2

I am aware of that list, BUT I am trying to determine the lowest combination "Resale Price + Dues"

I appears that Las Vegas may be the best in terms of that criteria.

I'm also a Disney Vacation Club (DVC) owner, so I think I know what you're describing.

Just my observation comparing the two clubs.

Bingo....that is 100% spot on where my confusion between DVC and Hilton lies.

 

[brp]

I

Many HGVC owners on the other hand want to vacation more frequently, for longer periods of time, in premium units (oceanfront/ocean view vs standard view). This requires more HGVC points. That's why many HGVC owners are willing to pay a higher upfront cost for the larger point contracts of the newer resorts, because their MFs/points tend to be a better value in the long-term. This creates a higher demand for the larger contracts that have low MFs.

Just my observation comparing the two clubs.

I think it's simpler than that, for reasons alluded to above. In DVC, the MFs are per-point, regardless of the number of points in the contract. So, as smaller contracts are more flexible, they're likely to cost more per point as there's no long-term penalty for more, smaller contracts.

However, this is *not* true for HGVC where unit size rules. So, a 5000 point and 7000 point contract at the same resort, same room size, different season have the same MFs. Lower MF/point. That's seems a more likely reason for the premium on these platinum weeks.

Cheers.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I can buy two Las Vegas 7,000 contracts that together cost less to buy in terms of price and the even annual dues than one 10,500 or 12,600 or 14,400 contract in Hawaii, BUT I would NEVER want to book Las Vegas for 12 months out and possibly would do that at Hilton once every 5 years or so.

Questions
Is one method better, or less risky, in terms of future resale value
What are the additional fees with buying two contracts
Are points all the same at 9 months
What about converting to HHonors, will 2x contracts be more than 1x
Anything else that I have not covered

 

[1Kflyerguy]

When buying multiple contracts, there will be multiple sets of closing costs and HGVC activation fees. Now it possible the seller will pay some or all of those fees, but you will need to check that on every deal. Its less common for sellers to cover the HGVC activation fees.

All points are the same at 9 months, and can be used to book any resort with available space, though a few resorts have additional time restrictions.

Your points will all end up in the same bucket and be converted to Honors if that's what you prefer to do.

As others mentioned it easier to scale up and down with multiple smaller contracts.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Once the points are in your account then.....

Everything in your ACCOUNT is done as a single entity(points pools, use years, banking points, converting to Honors, depositing into RCI, Elite Status Benefits etc). This is all done by aggregating all of your individual contracts to your account.

There are 2 EXCEPTIONS: 1) Your HOME resort reservations, if you make them, are based on EXACTLY the season and size you own. 2) Your MFs based on those underlying individual deeds, you will get an invoice for each deed separately.

So Remember Seasons
At HOME season you pay your MFs, you book your HOME resort reservations.
But at CLUB season, 9 months or less, all points are blind. HGVC doesn't care where they come from.

There might be a few Affiliate exceptions but you get 1 HGVC account, all your contracts appear in that single account. I think they may have done away with that recently.

I used to have 2 accounts that worked together 1 for my Bay Club and 1 for my SeaWorld. So even though I had 2 accounts I only used one of them to book. I would just call HGVC and do what was required to remove the restriction to accessing my points, and then I would move the points from one account tot the other. But MY affiliate has had the restriction removed I So I have one account, but I do not know if all affiliates have done so.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I think for me, the possibility of booking Hawaii at 12 months vs booking Las Vegas at 12 months is a nice benefit, even if I used it only every 4-5 years.

In reality the two methods are very close when you add in all the closing costs for 2x contracts. In the end, it is about location, number of points, cost per point to buy, and cost per point per year.

I can argue having two contracts gives more flexibility to sell one in the future, but that is not so important to me now.

 

[brp]

I can buy two Las Vegas 7,000 contracts that together cost less to buy in terms of price and the even annual dues than one 10,500 or 12,600 or 14,400 contract in Hawaii, BUT I would NEVER want to book Las Vegas for 12 months out and possibly would do that at Hilton once every 5 years or so.

We book Hawai'i at 9 or fewer months out. Our points are in Vegas.

We also have points in New York (W. 57th) that we use for New York because the rules are very different there. But, otherwise, points are points and the Big Island has never been a problem for us to book.

Cheers.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Big island is not a problem except for event weeks. Oahu is a completely different story. Easier to get into GW and New GI tower and HolyWhateverItsCalled that not run by HGVC. But all 3 of those are premium point towers. Try getting in Lagoon and Kalia towers takes planning or leftovers or last minute cancellations.

 

[onenotesamba]

I'm one of the few people (I think) who have two contracts with relatively low MFs at each property, and I think I'm making it work.

I've got two 1 bedroom platinum weeks at relatively low MF properties (Vegas Boulevard and Sea World), for a combined 9600 points. I could pay lower MFs for that number of points on a single contract in a couple of places, but my buy-in for both contracts was $5500, not including closing costs, transfer fees, etc.

Any single week resale contract I've seen for 9600 points or more, with MFs at around, or lower than $1200 has been waaaay more than $5500. If you're aiming for $1/point, I've come in well under that, and both units passed ROFR within the past 18 months.

I'd say that if you're doing two contracts, buy them both in Vegas, and make sure that they're both 1 BR Platinum weeks. Don't combine Gold or Silver weeks or EOY weeks. Buy Platinum at the lowest membership fee properties and cheapest buy-in you can find, and you might, just might be on par with a single Kings Land contract (considering the differential of the buy-in price). JSperling had a great spreadsheet that he shared with me when I was buying, which was really helpful in figuring out the cost over several years.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I was looking at two las vegas 7,000 point contracts (combined would be 14,000) and decided to put an offer on a 12,600 Kings Land contract that was accepted by the seller. All three contracts were around 1.10 to 1.17pp to buy and around .14pp for annual dues.

I spoke with 4 different brokers and found Judi Kozlowski of RE/MAX Properties to be the most helpful. Seth Nock was also very good, but he did not have the specific large point/low price the property I was focused on. Fidelity was very nice, but had limited selections and one dealer on eBay tried to trick me with a Westgate Las Vegas disguised as a HGVC.

Currently, there is not a huge amount of desirable HGVC inventory to choose from and perhaps that is due to the gap between the last and next annual dues payments. Some of the online websites were very difficult to use in an attempt to compare different resorts and point contracts.

I also looked at Orlando, but already own Disney, so I passed on that location, but there were some good deals at Seaworld.

I think the hardest thing to buy is the largest point contract for a specific room size (specifically Plus or Premium rooms) and trying to get it for the lowest price, as those actually sell for much more than (regular non plus or non premium rooms).

 

[brp]

I'm one of the few people (I think) who have two contracts with relatively low MFs at each property, and I think I'm making it work.

We have two Vegas contracts at 5000 points each. I paid $5750 for the two (exclusive of fees), and the MFs are not too bad, but still more (per point and total) than a single 7000 point platinum in Vegas. Since we use them in both Vegas and Hawai'i, I'm happy with the number of points.

Cheers.

 

[brp]

I've got two 1 bedroom platinum weeks at relatively low MF properties (Vegas Boulevard and Sea World), for a combined 9600 points. I could pay lower MFs for that number of points on a single contract in a couple of places, but my buy-in for both contracts was $5500, not including closing costs, transfer fees, etc.

We have two Vegas contracts at 5000 points each. I paid $5750 for the two (exclusive of fees), and the MFs are not too bad, but still more (per point and total) than a single 7000 point platinum in Vegas. Since we use them in both Vegas and Hawai'i, I'm happy with the number of points.

Cheers.

After posting the above this morning and getting in my car to go to work, it suddenly dawned on me that I had done this not quite right. Now, I know the system pretty well, and I did know this distinction, but it took me until today (several years after the purchases) to realize my mistake.

At first my thought was "maybe I should have gotten a single 7000 point week instead of two 5000 point weeks." But I realized that the additional points were worth it.

I realize now that the real question should have been "why didn't I get two 4800 point, platinum, one bedroom weeks instead of 2 5000 point gold, two bedroom weeks." The price may have been a little higher for this, but the MFs would have been lower, and points roughly the same.

Really should have been obvious, but I somehow missed it at the time.

Cheers.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I think the lesson is to buy the highest platinum category room for the lowest price (not always possible) such as 1 bedroom Plus or 1 bedroom premier, etc. as you are getting more points for the same annual dues, but will pay more initially (and that should hold in resale value too)

 

[DazedandConfused]

I realize now that the real question should have been "why didn't I get two 4800 point, platinum, one bedroom weeks instead of 2 5000 point gold, two bedroom weeks." The price may have been a little higher for this, but the MFs would have been lower, and points roughly the same.

Really should have been obvious, but I somehow missed it at the time.

The difference is $250 per contract per year or $500 per yer.

But the 4,800 point 1 bedroom platinum contracts are MORE $$$ than the 5,000 two bedroom contracts, so it is a simple math equation to determine where the tilting will take place and it is probably 7-10 years so I think you still made a good deal.

 

[brp]

The difference is $250 per contract per year or $500 per yer.

But the 4,800 point 1 bedroom platinum contracts are MORE $$$ than the 5,000 two bedroom contracts, so it is a simple math equation to determine where the tilting will take place and it is probably 7-10 years so I think you still made a good deal.

When I look at resale sites now I can see some of both in Vegas, and I can see some of each in the same price range. And this was a resort (Flamingo) that does not have ROFR, so any price I agree on with a seller is a done deal. Of course, I don't know the price spread that existed when we bought about 3 years ago. But, assuming something similar to now, it's possible that I could have bought for a similar price with the right seller.

But even if each contract had been $1000 more, then it would have taken only 4 years to break even. And Vegas resale contracts are, on the whole, just not very expensive.

I mean, it's not as expensive a lesson as buying direct (we've done that, and rescinded in time ), but I think we could have done better.

Cheers.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I realize now that the real question should have been "why didn't I get two 4800 point, platinum, one bedroom weeks instead of 2 5000 point gold, two bedroom weeks." The price may have been a little higher for this, but the MFs would have been lower, and points roughly the same.

BINGO, we have a winner.

That is what I have been saying. It is ALWAYS better long-term to buy Platinum than any other season. As your MF$/point are going to be the lowest possible at that resort. Especially if you are planning on keeping the unit for 10+ year. You have to do the math but you are almost always likely to better with a Platinum week.

Now there are going to be differences from resort to resort. But honestly, Hawaii resorts are more MF$ UNLESS you buy one of the premium point properties, and/or plus or premium view units, (Like KL early phases, or Grand Waikikian,). Problem is those are such recent builds and thus purchases, that they are limited resales available, and because they are Hawaii, the their may likely be a premium on the price. I would NOT recommend purchasing a 7000 point Hawaii week over say a Vegas/Seaworld from a purchase price and from a MF$ perspective. The only reason to buy Hawaii in those situations is you plan to use the Home Resort or Event week you purchased with some regularity.

But on resale it is a balance between wants and needs and time. If you are patient you will likely find exactly want you need. But if you want something sooner, you will make do with what is available.

Generally, resales are more plentiful in October when people get their MF bill and don't want to pay again for another year. However at this time of year you might get people who are motivated to sell.