Did we get ripped off? Give it to me straight. Grand Luxxe Residence Nuevo Vallarta

[2stinkers]

How does one know if one paid too much? Do people post anywhere what they purchased?

If timeshares are such a bad deal, then why does anyone buy them? It seemed like a good deal when we did the math. Yeah, it's $85K and then $2200 to stay in a fab place every time you go. But to rent a place like this (when we looked online) was really expensive. (Though I know now we were looking in the wrong place!)

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

You paid retail - from the developer

How does one know if one paid too much? Do people post anywhere what they purchased?

If timeshares are such a bad deal, then why does anyone buy them? It seemed like a good deal when we did the math. Yeah, it's $85K and then $2200 to stay in a fab place every time you go. But to rent a place like this (when we looked online) was really expensive. (Though I know now we were looking in the wrong place!)

*****
TUG member Mikenk - who posted in this thread is very knowledgeable on Grand Luxxe details and is an owner .

85 K won't buy you much of a condo in Nuevo .- and there are condo fees etc

Grand Luxxe rarely resells since Vidanta has a 10 x MF transfer fee .They do not wish to compete with themselves on ebay That is also why the MF on use only is important .
The extra benefits like massages , golf discounts etc - do not transfer if sold . So most Grand Luxxe owners bought from Vidanta .
and either did a trade in of existing Vidanta contracts( upgraded to GL ) or a outside resort as you did .

Please reread posts and go read the threads I listed .

Vidanta has a very persuasive sales organization .
Member Services is separate - since they administer already signed contracts .

the resorts are all top quality - as you saw .

.

 

[mikenk]

How does one know if one paid too much? Do people post anywhere what they purchased?

If timeshares are such a bad deal, then why does anyone buy them? It seemed like a good deal when we did the math. Yeah, it's $85K and then $2200 to stay in a fab place every time you go. But to rent a place like this (when we looked online) was really expensive. (Though I know now we were looking in the wrong place!)

The underlying problem is the timeshare market totally tanked over the last decade or so. There were too many; the relentless MF's were making it seem as an obligation, and the timeshares were slowly deteriorating due to lack of renovation capital. ebay (and similar) provided a way for people to dump them for basically nothing in return. Of course, that opened the way for bargains on decent timeshares for using & trading; TUG is a great site for exploiting this. I bought my original Grand Mayan contract off of a TUG member.

Vidanta has a different business model based around aggressive sales and offering a superb continually evolving product. They have also allowed owners to customize their contracts (at a price) for optimizing vacations. We have upgraded three times and have a contract we feel is optimized for our family and the future - our total cost is well under what you paid but we were upgrading pre-construction.

Two questions: did you actually pay 85K or 65 based on your other timeshare. Vidanta doesn't want your other timeshare, but often will discount the price based on what you had paid.

Have you checked your contract as to whether you only pay the MF if you use?

I agree with the way you are looking at the cost analysis as a prepaid vacation. What does it realistically cost you to take vacations the way you want with or without the timeshare and when will the benefits out weigh the cost. Of course, this is easier with the no pay unless you use as it takes the relentless obligation out of the equation.

In my case, it was an easy justification as we use so frequently. We never trade as we can never get equal value - we just use. We go back in two weeks with two couples that we have never taken. That is what it is all about for us.

T-dot gave a lot of good advice; there is a lot of great info on Vidanta on TUG threads - both the good and the bad; Pittle's posts are a great source of info.

Mike

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Just re read your original post - " Equity trade in for real estate of 70 K "

Dear 2Stinkers,
I just re read you original post and you mention :
Equity trade in for real estate 70 K

Does this mean that if you later buy a condo from - Grupo Vidanta Real Estate-
you essentially have a $ 70,000 down payment already made ?

This could be a very significant addendum .

Mayan Island Siebel Nuevo Vallarta are full ownership condos
as is Mayan Lakes and probable future development in the Cabo East Cape .

.

 

[John Cummings]

So what is a particular timeshare actually worth? There is actually a couple of ways to look at it. Certainly, the obvious is if you can buy a specific TS on ebay for basically zilch - than that is what it is worth - no more; no less. To be Honest, I'm not sure the price of the villa on resale or whether they can even be found. If they are available, then that is what they are worth. Does anyone know this?

Assuming they are not available except through the developer, then the price is what someone is willing to pay for that quality of a timeshare. We have several friends who have traditional timeshares; we take them to the Luxxe; they take us to theirs. Frankly, I would rather stay at home than spend the week at theirs; so to me owning their timeshares are worth absolutely nothing to us. They always apologize for taking us to their exchanges compared to what they get at ours.

A couple of weeks ago during a trip to Houston, we took my nephew and wife out to dinner for his birthday. We took them to a great steak place in Houston; the price was outrageous but worth it for us - and they will remember it for years. What does that have to with our villa? Everything, actually. We always take family and friends and they always get one of the best if not the best vacation of their lives - same for us. The resort is top notch, the golf courses are top notch, and the service is top notch. The experience with our family and friends is priceless to us as that is why we own.

Mike

I agree 100%. We have spent many weeks at the Grand Mayans in both Nuevo Vallarta and Riviera Maya. The Vidanta resorts are awesome. We aren't owners as we have always been able to exchange into them through SFX during prime time.

The point is that the Vidanta resorts are definitely high class. We have stayed in HGVC, Wyndham, Marriott, etc. and they don't come close to the Vidanta resorts for elegance, amenities, and service.

Like anything else, they are worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. I would rather stay in a 4* Hotel than some TS condo like most are in the US.

There are folks that spend $10,000 /night for a hotel suite which is worth it to them.

 

[pittle]

You say that you have 2 weeks. Do you have one week that is called Registered and the other called Residence? That gives me more of an idea as to what you have. Yes, you paid full price, but most of us have at some time. They start really high and negotiate down trying to make you feel like you got a great deal. They do have a lowest point they can sell a unit for, but only the sales managers have that information. You just have to feel OK with your purchase. It is an awesome resort.

We bought our first Mayan Palace unit in 1999 and loved Mayan World (what I call Vidanta) so much that a few years ago, we owned a total of 4 MP weeks & 2 GM weeks - each also had a Vacation Fair week that was like a bonus week you could use if you paid the MF for any time except Christmas/New Years, Easter, and February - mid-April. We have gone to a Mayan World resort pretty much every year since 1999 and have used some weeks to exchange into other resorts. We have loved every one of the Vidanta Resorts and do not hesitate to invite family or friends to go there because the experience is awesome. Our family & friends have enjoyed going with us and often offer to pay the MF for a unit of their own.

We traded in all 6 weeks for an upgrade to 2 Grand Luxxe 2-bedroom units that also came with extra weeks that we can use for additional weeks. We wanted fewer weeks and the cost to upgrade was reasonable once we factored in the cost for the 5 year renovation fees that we were obligated to pay for those 6 weeks. Now we have a nicer place and lots more benefits than we had before.

 

[MuranoJo]

Off topic so I removed it.

 

[saabman]

I'll contact Profeco but what's the worst the resort can do to me?

Profeco has no enforcement powers. File if you want but know it will NOT be the way for you to get your money back or contract cancelled.

The comments that you should look for discrepancies between what they told you and what's in the contract is a good exercise in futility. It's the contract that matters not what promises they told you outside of the contract you signed. And don't forget, they have attorneys and with very deep pockets.

re: Visa timeshare cancellation period link. See page seven. Know that you still must submit a cancellation letter to the resort.
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/downl...-management-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf

 

[Karen G]

re: Visa timeshare cancellation period link. See page seven. Know that you still must submit a cancellation letter to the resort.
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/downl...-management-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf

Thanks so much for posting this link.
Visa specifically addresses timeshares with this statement: Timeshare
You must provide a full credit when a transaction receipt has been processed and the cardholder has cancelled the transaction within 14 calendar days of the transaction date.

I hope the OP sees this as she may still be within the 14-day period if she acts today!

 

[pianoetudes]

I bought Vidanta Grand Bliss timeshare last year and I am happy with it.

The good thing about Vidanta is no yearly maintenance fee like Wyndham. You pay only the week(s) you want to stay.

You know how beautiful the place is. I have 2-week vacation in Grand Bliss Nuevo Vallarta in January 2017 for my father's 80th birthday.

I think the price $85K for Grand Luxxe Residence is reasonable. The Residence is higher class than standard Grand Luxxe and you have two bedroom villa.

 

[tmm]

I can't add much to the question of how to cancel the purchase, but I can chime in as a Grand Luxxe owner and say that our family has loved it.

We originally bought a Grand Mayan unit (about 10 years ago) and upgraded to the Grand Luxxe (the Villa master suite; same as the original poster). We have the same 2 "vacation fair" weeks, and 1 registered week for 10 years. We use it every year; this past summer we booked 2 rooms for 1 week and brought along family (12 of us total), and the kids all had a blast.

We didn't pay as much as the $85k (we were about half that when accounting for the original Grand Mayan purchase and Luxxe upgrade), and though some have questioned the expense, we love it. We look forward to Cancun and NV every summer, and it's not "vacation" unless we're sitting on the beach or pool-side.

The employees at the Mayan (Grand Luxxe especially) are always extremely friendly and helpful and make our vacations there perfect.

If you do get-out of your purchase, I hope that's what you want. If you stay with the Luxxe, focus on the "forced" vacations, the beautiful locations, the warm people, the yummy food, and the sheer bliss of no stress (leave those laptops at home!). Soon you'll wonder how you ever lived without Mexico!

 

[lawduck]

How does one know if one paid too much? Do people post anywhere what they purchased?

If timeshares are such a bad deal, then why does anyone buy them? It seemed like a good deal when we did the math. Yeah, it's $85K and then $2200 to stay in a fab place every time you go. But to rent a place like this (when we looked online) was really expensive. (Though I know now we were looking in the wrong place!)

Buying retail is almost always a bad deal. While there is no resale market for Grand Luxxe because of the high transfer fee, it is an easy exchange for much less. We have Christmas week and the following week this year for less than $1000 a week (two bedroom villa) by exchanging using our Worldmark account. All we miss out on are the free rounds of golf.

 

[vermut]

Great timeshare if you use to go and to exchange

I have been an owner now for over 12 years and have upgraded through the levels to now own a 3br spa tower and 2br condo grand luxxe. We have gone on and off over the years and this year are going thanksgiving week and are able to put up my family and my wife's family using two units of the 2br grand luxxe which costs me just $3,000 in maintenance fees. To me no matter what I have paid over the years just the use alone has been great.

However, we have also used the time share so many other ways between exchanges and renting the unit that there has been a clear savings over the years in what we have been able to do. We have gone to resorts where the average rental rate was $700 a night for a 3br and we were able to use a 3br spa as an exchange.

In addition we have used Vida dollars to get cruise discounts that really did bring down the price of the cruise below what the lowest rates were by over $1000.

My point is that in the end we know that we all pay different prices and while the price quoted up at the start of the thread may seem high to some, if they use it and enjoy it, then over time it all evens out.

I for one while originally a bit upset at what I had paid, have realized over the years that we have actually done just fine and one way or another have probably received in rent or in other savings at least 50% of what we paid out to begin with.

The fact that they continue to expand, grow and come up with creative ways to draw people to the resorts as well as keep the resorts in 5* shape means a lot to me as well.

Just my thoughts.

 

[terminator]

At the Grand Bliss we pay usage fees, no MF.

Regarding Visa refunds, in cases involving a notorious resort north of PV...refundable if the product and or service is not delivered as per contract. Verbal promises are irrelevant; otherwise, fraud (by misrepresentation for example) justifies a refund...and must be proven to their satisfaction.
Do research "fraud" definitions, but I have not heard of Vidanta ever going down this path.

 

[Larry M]

You did notice...

There is no timeshare that is worth $85,900 - they should pull out all the stops to get out of this.

IMNSHO, it is a disservice to newbies to frame this as an OK deal - it's not.

Denise, You did notice this was for two weeks, right?

Larry

 

[drguy]

*Karen has already pointed out the most obvious flaw which IS listed in the first post. They turned in another timeshare as part of their down payment, but we know from previous reports that this timeshare will never be transferred out of their name. So now they have 2 timeshares and double MF.

This is a false statement. It contradicts my personal experience. I expect honesty from a Moderator of the forum.

 

[Karen G]

This is a false statement. It contradicts my personal experience. I expect honesty from a Moderator of the forum.

I honestly have read more reports from people who said their timeshares were never transferred out of their name than reports from people who reported that their timeshares were successfully transferred. Perhaps those who were successful have not reported as much as those who were unsuccessful. I have no reason to lie about that.

 

[drguy]

I honestly have read more reports from people who said their timeshares were never transferred out of their name than reports from people who reported that their timeshares were successfully transferred. Perhaps those who were successful have not reported as much as those who were unsuccessful. I have no reason to lie about that.

Your statement is true. The other individual falsely stated that the timeshare will never be transferred. I personally had 5+ transferred out of my name. People rarely post their positive outcomes, but do post their unsuccessful outcomes.

 

[Passepartout]

Don't you suppose that it's possible that Vidanta is more successful in marketing the 'brand name' TSs that people trade in than smaller, independent ones in Podunk somewhere? If Vidanta can't sell the traded-in unit, or even give it away to transfer it out of the original buyer's name, they're not going to sit on it forever and pay MFs on something they can't get rid of.

Jim

 

[rpennisi]

Your statement is true. The other individual falsely stated that the timeshare will never be transferred. I personally had 5+ transferred out of my name. People rarely post their positive outcomes, but do post their unsuccessful outcomes.

What does "5+" mean? Was it 6, 7...?
Were they as Jim mentions, "brand names"?
Did you have to pay a fee to a company to get rid of them?

 

[mikenk]

Buying retail is almost always a bad deal. While there is no resale market for Grand Luxxe because of the high transfer fee, it is an easy exchange for much less. We have Christmas week and the following week this year for less than $1000 a week (two bedroom villa) by exchanging using our Worldmark account. All we miss out on are the free rounds of golf.

At this point in time, you seem to be correct. For people who don't wan't the amenities (like free or cheap golf), from many comments, it would appear that folks can find exchanges that are cheaper than what it costs owners even with the exchange costs and resort fees. From that perspective, it would seem hard to justify paying the Vidanta prices to own.

Digging a little deeper does raise some interesting questions.
1: I believe the fundamental reasons for reasonably cheap exchanges is that these exchanges are actually deposits by Vidanta to fill vacancies - not real exchanges. I believe these will dry up significanly over the next few years as the resorts develop out.
2: For people wanting to rent their units, full ownership rentals that include the amenities like free golf should not be discounted as a reason for ownership. It can be quite lucrative if renting out is your goal.
3: Vermut also makes some good points. Vidanta ownership really contains a bunch of benefits that while singularly might not seem like much - but collectively as you use them, you start realizing some significant value.

In reality, this TUG forum is a very traditional timeshare forum seeking to buy cheap timeshares on resale that trade well. Vidanta is not a traditional timeshare model. Ownership is a lot more complicated with all the options and possibilities. Personally, one thing I like about ownership is feeling a part of all the growth. Every time we go, it is fun the first day just to walk around and marvel at the changes.

Mike

 

[dioxide45]

There is more than one Vidanta owner who has posted that their trade in
is no longer owned by them .

I will add

*****
See my post (# 24 )

I honestly have read more reports from people who said their timeshares were never transferred out of their name than reports from people who reported that their timeshares were successfully transferred. Perhaps those who were successful have not reported as much as those who were unsuccessful. I have no reason to lie about that.

Don't forget that purchaser a few weeks ago that was offered to be able to keep the week that they had done an equity trade in on. Basically, the plan all along was to be able to offer the week back to the owner and the price the buyer paid was what they could have gotten even without the equity trade in. There are very few weeks that have any equity in them and the developer is just using the "equity trade in" to make it look like a good deal when in reality is still isn't

I am aghast that anyone would suggest that a $85K timeshare purchase for something that can be bought resale for $0 is a good deal. Even if you had to pay the transfer costs, which are excessive, it would be way cheaper than $85K. Especially seemingly when everything I have read, Mexican properties don't tend to discriminate against resale buyers in the benevits they offer owners like some other timeshare systems.

 

[mikenk]

Don't forget that

I am aghast that anyone would suggest that a $85K timeshare purchase for something that can be bought resale for $0 is a good deal. Even if you had to pay the transfer costs, which are excessive, it would be way cheaper than $85K. Especially seemingly when everything I have read, Mexican properties don't tend to discriminate against resale buyers in the benevits they offer owners like some other timeshare systems.

Maybe you're right that you can buy a Grand Luxxe villa for $0 if one pays the transfer fees - but I have not seen it. Where is you data on that?

Realistically, the only logical way for a GL owner to sell or transfer ownership is a direct personal transfer as that is the only way the benefits transfer. Since almost all GL owners have no MF unless they use, what is the logic for selling cheap since it costs little to nothing to keep? Remember, when you buy, you are buying the ability to use (generally 3 weeks or more per year) and a bunch of other benefits including the no pay unless you go. Vidanta contracts are not your typical TS contract.

I do agree that 85k was high and could have been negotiated lower - even though I think the real cost was $65 K as I think the OP got the 25K from the other timeshare as basically a price cut - but we really don't know what other benefits were or weren't included. Without knowing that, it is really impossible to judge the contract worth.

Personally, I wouldn't except any "free" timeshare that had a forced yearly MF; that's why people give these things away at 0 cost.

Mike

 

[Karen G]

Since almost all GL owners have no MF unless they use, what is the logic for selling cheap since it costs little to nothing to keep? Remember, when you buy, you are buying the ability to use (generally 3 weeks or more per year) and a bunch of other benefits including the no pay unless you go. Vidanta contracts are not your typical TS.

I have always wondered about the feature that if you don't use the timeshare you don't pay the maintenance fee. That sounds good at first, but it seems a bit illogical. Why pay thousands of dollars to buy something because you will save so much more if don't use it? It seems the same as buying a fancy car but never driving it so you can save on gasoline. I guess at least with a car you could go out to the garage and sit in it and listen to the radio.

I know that as someone gets older or their life circumstances change and they don't want to travel any more, not having that maintenance fee to worry about is a good thing. But, not spending thousands of dollars for something you don't use sounds like a better thing.

 

[rpennisi]

I have always wondered about the feature that if you don't use the timeshare you don't pay the maintenance fee. That sounds good at first, but it seems a bit illogical. Why pay thousands of dollars to buy something because you will save so much more if don't use it? It seems the same as buying a fancy car but never driving it so you can save on gasoline. I guess at least with a car you could go out to the garage and sit in it and listen to the radio.

I know that as someone gets older or their life circumstances change and they don't want to travel any more, not having that maintenance fee to worry about is a good thing. But, not spending thousands of dollars for something you don't use sounds like a better thing.

I completely agree with your statement. Paying anywhere from 65-85 thousand dollars or anything close for a GL timeshare and then feeling good about no required annual MF of 2 thousand seems like an awful waste of the initial purchase price.

It seems on this forum that many present GL owners used their MP, GM timeshares as "equity' to trade up to Grand Luxxe with negotiated perks. If one bought those MP and GM units for close to $0 that may make sense, if the deals for GL were really that good as many have written. Using MP and GM weeks to trade up also have the added benefit of not having to worry about Vidanta not liquidating those TS's as others have found that they still own them (non Vidanta).

Personal circumstances do change, but maybe because I still do a lot of traveling, having TS's that require an annual MF and reno's periodically have not been a personal hinderance. Especially true when my deposited TS's for 2017 get me 2 weeks in CSL in January (Playa Grande 1 bdrm and PB SB 2 bdrm), a FL week in February (2 bdrm Grand Villas), a 3 bedroom Grand Hilton Tuscany near DW in July with the whole family, a GL 1 bdrm in RM in August. And there are still deposits leftover for more travel going forward.

I love Mayan World (credit to Phyllis) but variety is good. Not paying annual MF's on a large GL purchase, not so good imo.

I think Phyllis and Mikenk get a lot out of their GL timeshares, but they are using what they bought.

Ron