Bill Cosby and the justice system

[ampaholic]

Rick - your comments are way off base, because that's not what he has been accused of at all. Please look it up.

Again - a 15 year old is not a woman. She was a child, and Cosby "groomed" her so he could molest her, and then he molested her.

Well see Denise - your post brings up a good point: I wasn't there and neither was anyone else on this board.

A TRIAL would be a nice way for me to understand what happened. Of course a real trial would involve an investigation and give the accused an opportunity to refute and defend the charges.

So naturally that ain't gonna happen

He said - She said = pure and simple

I'm out of here - ain't nothing here for me. Cancel - I guess I can't be out of here if the name calling is just starting SueDonJ has just trundled out "despicable"

 

[SueDonJ]

Rick - your comments are way off base, because that's not what he has been accused of at all. Please look it up.

Again - a 15 year old is not a woman. She was a child, and Cosby "groomed" her so he could molest her, and then he molested her.

I'm pretty sure all he's trying to say is that she (and her parents) allowed her to be put into a situation where she could be raped, ergo, she is responsible for having been raped.

It's not the details of the attack itself that matter, to him, it's how much responsibility the victim should bear for being in a position where the attacker could attack her.

In other words, first and foremost blame the victim.

Despicable.

 

[DeniseM]

Sue - she wasn't raped - see my info. above.

There is no indication that her parents knew where she was. He picked the girls up at a tennis club.

 

[DeniseM]

Well see Denise - your post brings up a good point: I wasn't there and neither was anyone else on this board.

A TRIAL would be a nice way for me to understand what happened. Of course a real trial would involve an investigation and give the accused an opportunity to refute and defend the charges.

So naturally that ain't gonna happen

He said - She said = pure and simple

I'm out of here - ain't nothing here for me.

There apparently is going to be a trial [maybe] - Huth has filed a lawsuit against Cosby - of course that may be settled out of court, like the last one.

However, I respectfully submit, that if you are going to discredit what the accuser said - you should at least KNOW what she said...

 

[Ken555]

There apparently is going to be a trial

Finally! Perhaps now we'll get some facts to consider.


Sent from my iPad

 

[ampaholic]

I'm pretty sure all he's trying to say is that she (and her parents) allowed her to be put into a situation where she could be raped, ergo, she is responsible for having been raped.

It's not the details of the attack itself that matter, to him, it's how much responsibility the victim should bear for being in a position where the attacker could attack her.

In other words, first and foremost blame the victim.

Despicable.

What She is trying to say is she need not follow any laws herself - she a girl

deplorable

And I really don't think Mods should be tossing around "Despicable" when talking about other posters.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sue - she wasn't raped - see my info. above.

There is no indication that her parents knew where she was. He picked the girls up at a tennis club.

But that's what I'm saying, Denise, that you know and I know and most of us know what each victim is alleging happened, but Rick obviously hasn't read everything so in his mind, all of the victims are claiming rape and apparently, most if not all of them have no right to do so because they put themselves in harm's way.

That's what I was responding to, that his posts show that the details don't matter to him. The only thing that appears to matter to him is that, "it's not rape if the alleged victim wasn't smart enough to stay out of the situation in the first place." Or in other words, "If Cosby hadn't been given the opportunities, there would never have been victims."

 

[SueDonJ]

What She is trying to say is she need not follow any laws herself - she a girl

deplorable

And I really don't think Mods should be tossing around "Despicable" when talking about other posters.

"Despicable" relates to the thought process that still allows victims of rapes and other predatory crimes to be blamed for their attackers' actions because they "put themselves into the situations." And I stand by it.

 

[DeniseM]

Hi Sue - I agree with you. I just wanted to set the record straight about how the girls arrived at the Club.

I simply can't believe that in 2014, anyone would blame a child, for being the victim of molestation - it's beyond comprehension to me.

 

[Beaglemom3]

"Despicable" relates to the thought process that still allows victims of rapes and other predatory crimes to be blamed for their attackers' actions because they "put themselves into the situations." And I stand by it.

+1.

 

[ondeadlin]

+1.

+2

If one is going to put their views into the public debate, one has to open to how those views will be perceived by others.

 

[ampaholic]

"Despicable" relates to the thought process that still allows victims of rapes and other predatory crimes to be blamed for their attackers' actions because they "put themselves into the situations." And I stand by it.

I won't use the term I would apply to the thought process that allows the idea that:

"the FACTS of how the situation happened have NOTHING to do with it"

But it rhymes with BORON.

 

[Beaglemom3]

Beverly Johnson, top model, has come forward with her experience.

From Vanity Fair

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2014/12/bill-cosby-beverly-johnson-story


-

 

[ampaholic]

There apparently is going to be a trial [maybe] - Huth has filed a lawsuit against Cosby - of course that may be settled out of court, like the last one.

However, I respectfully submit, that if you are going to discredit what the accuser said - you should at least KNOW what she said...

I read the suit - it says very little in the way of verifiable facts - it is heavy on allegation.

It would never fly in Criminal Court - that's for sure.

 

[DeniseM]

If we are going to blame Cosby's victims, then we should also blame Sandusky's victims for putting themselves in precarious situations with him - like going to the gym, and over night trips, and sleep overs… They should have known better.

BTW - Sandusky also gave some of his victims alcohol - so that means that the boys who accepted alcohol from him were to blame for being molested, as well.

 

[ampaholic]

If we are going to blame Cosby's victims, then we should also blame Sandusky's victims for putting themselves in precarious situations with him - like going to the gym, and over night trips, and sleep overs… They should have known better.

BTW - Sandusky also gave some of his victims alcohol - so that means that the boys who accepted alcohol from him were to blame for being molested, as well.

Dirty Debate tactics are us?

One has nothing to do with the other - but lets lump all MALES together since they are the problem right?

 

[ampaholic]

+2

If one is going to put their views into the public debate, one has to open to how those views will be perceived by others.

Miss-perceived is more like it.

 

[ondeadlin]

It's preposterous to call Denise's comparison dirty debate tactics. Preposterous. She's taken some of the exact factors you've used to throw blame on Cosby's alleged victim and shown how they could be applied to Sandusky's victims. It's baffling how you can't see that.

And, honestly Rick, I know you don't realize it, but you're coming off horribly here. Just horribly. It's clear you have no idea that the views you're expressing here are seen as victim blaming by almost any mainstream standard.

 

[DeniseM]

One has nothing to do with the other - but lets lump all MALES together since they are the problem right?

Sandusky groomed and molested boys - include boys around 15 years of age.

Cosby groomed and molested girls and young women.

What is the difference?

 

[ampaholic]

Rick - your comments are way off base, because that's not what he has been accused of at all. Please look it up.

Again - a 15 year old is not a woman. She was a child, and Cosby "groomed" her so he could molest her, and then he molested her.

Here is the "PG" version (appropriate for TUG.)

Cosby plied them with alcohol, and then took the 15 year old and her 16 year old friend to the Playboy Club. The 15 year old went to the bathroom. When she came out of the bathroom, Cosby was in the bed in the attached bedroom, in a state of undress. He attempted to put his hand down her pants, and also gripped her hand, and forced her to participate in a sex act.

As a woman of the same era, I would have no idea what to do if I was accosted in this same situation, at that age.

Nor would I have any clue that a man old enough to be my father intended to molest me, especially since I was there with my friend.

Besides his celebrity, at the time, Cosby was in his prime, and he was a large, and powerful man.

In this country, we do not try 15 year olds for being the victim of molestation.

Here the misinformation begins:

The actual lawsuit doesn't state he was in a "state of undress"

 

[ampaholic]

It's preposterous to call Denise's comparison dirty debate tactics. Preposterous. She's taken some of the exact factors you've used to throw blame on Cosby's alleged victim and shown how they could be applied to Sandusky's victims. It's baffling how you can't see that.

And, honestly Rick, I know you don't realize it, but you're coming off horribly here. Just horribly. It's clear you have no idea that the views you're expressing here are seen as victim blaming by almost any mainstream standard.

Asking for facts = victim blaming ------ a little out there.

 

[ampaholic]

Sandusky groomed and molested boys - include boys around 15 years of age.

Cosby groomed and molested girls and young women.

What is the difference?

One has been proven in a court of law - the other meh, not so much.

The fact that you would equate them says a lot.

 

[ampaholic]

It's preposterous to call Denise's comparison dirty debate tactics. Preposterous. She's taken some of the exact factors you've used to throw blame on Cosby's alleged victim and shown how they could be applied to Sandusky's victims. It's baffling how you can't see that.

And, honestly Rick, I know you don't realize it, but you're coming off horribly here. Just horribly. It's clear you have no idea that the views you're expressing here are seen as victim blaming by almost any mainstream standard.

At least you are still using the word - even though it has lost all meaning to you AFAIK

 

[Ken555]

And, honestly Rick, I know you don't realize it, but you're coming off horribly here. Just horribly. It's clear you have no idea that the views you're expressing here are seen as victim blaming by almost any mainstream standard.

With respect, how does one question the allegations made against Cosby and not be perceived to fall under your definition of victim blaming?


Sent from my iPad

 

[DeniseM]

One has been proven in a court of law - the other meh, not so much.

The fact that you would equate them says a lot.

They haven't been proven in a court of law - yet. Just as at one time, the allegations against Sandusky hadn't been proven in a court of law.

But that was not your point - your point was that the girls broke the law by accepting the alcohol from Cosby, and therefore, they were to blame for what happened to them.

A woman certainly DOES bear responsibility for blatantly ignoring several laws intended to protect her from EXACTLY what happened.

Your attemt to steal away from her her part in the stoopidness of that night makes her into and incompetent - not just a child.

Plenty of 15 year olds have been tried as ADULTS in this country (and some 13 and 14 year olds) so there is plenty of case law on the books showing that we (society) EXPECT a 15 year old to at minimum OBEY the LAW.

Were the boys who accepted alcohol from Sandusky, to blame for what happened to them?